Concerned Father

jimmurt

Hi All,

Just wanted to post here to get people's thoughts on this. My GF is due May 20th. She is from India and had recently returned there to visit for 5 weeks after not having been home for 2 years.

We were talking last night and she told me she wanted to bring the baby home again in Sept for a 2 week visit. We had a massive argument as I felt that this was too soon. It's not so much the travel as the time away from home environment and father at such a young age (I would not be able to go since im using all my work holidays around the time of birth).

Im trying to get her to understand that te baby's home will be here. I get that she misses home and wants her friends and family from over there to meet baby but for me this is way too soon.

Thanks.

ncmc

I would talk to your doctor or phn about this, at 12 weeks, I would imagine that travel to India wouldn't be recommended as the baby would not have had the necessary vaccinations. There was a thread on personal issues recently were someone had booked a holiday to Brazil and their doctor recommended against their 10 month old going for those reasons. Maybe if your GF heard it from a medical professional it might make her think twice? Or at least postpone the trip until next year when you can go too and the baby will be more robust.

ncmc

Also, maybe don't fight about it too much now, I'm presuming this is your first child? In the nicest possible way, people are clueless before the baby arrives! 'Oh yeah I'll travel half way around the world on my own with essentially a newborn' When the time comes, she might see that getting herself and the baby dressed and down to Tesco can be a challenge! She might see the reality of the situation when the baby arrives.

wuffly

The baby will be fine, it's much easier to travel when they are that young especially if she is breastfeeding. The child doesn't need be 'robust' honestly how do you think kids from these places manage? I'm sure your OH wouldn't put your child at risk. At that young age the baby will have a minimal routine if any and no offense won't particulary miss you. Of course it would be hard on you. We live abroad and took out son back to Ireland at 4weeks, we travelled the breath of the country with him and he was fine. His home is where his parents are. If your OH goes to India for 2weeks, I'd think she might want to stay longer, new mums tend to want and need support. And having all her family might make her want to stay longer.
We know lots of people who have gone home with new borns for the summer months and it's been fine the dads are generally happy to get some sleep and visit mid way through.

jimmurt

Thanks for the replies, all very helpful.

I accept that it might be ok to bring the baby away so soon and also I might appreciate the 2 weeks rest. But my thinking is "what´s the hurry". Like her parents and friends will be there in December or Jan 2018.

Also I probably should have mentioned this as it adds to my worry. Her parents, family and some friends are very traditional and some are totally against mixing races. Now of course I´m not saying they would do anything and I cannot even say why it worries me. It just does. She´s not travelling over there into welcoming arms where everyone will be happy to see the baby.

I would prefer that we wait a year and travel together.

We´re going to ask our Doctor for advice on Tuesday.

ncmc

While I agree with a lot of what wuffly says, kids are easy to travel with at that that stage if they are breastfed, I brought my daughter to Portugal when she was that age and it was the easiest trip we ever did with her! But India is a bit different, the baby would be exposed to diseases that they wouldn't be here, malaria for one. Measles is a danger in developing countries, the baby won't have had its MMR yet. A lot depends on where the baby will be travelling, I would imagine some areas are safer than others. I think the OP has valid concerns.

Sleeper12

Don't men get parental leave now?

sadie06

jimmurt wrote: »

T

Also I probably should have mentioned this as it adds to my worry. Her parents, family and some friends are very traditional and some are totally against mixing races. Now of course I´m not saying they would do anything and I cannot even say why it worries me. It just does. She´s not travelling over there into welcoming arms where everyone will be happy to see the baby.

This concern carries a far greater weight. If you are not comfortable with your baby being parted from you and feel that your baby will be around people that resent his/her existence, then try to persuade your GF to wait until you can travel together.

siblers

You get 2 weeks paternity leave by law, you can use them within the first 6 months of the child's birth, so you could use them to travel to India

wuffly

If you are worried for your child's safety that's a whole other kettle of fish. If I had any concerns on that front I can see why you'd be worried. Had your OH mentioned going before her recent trip home? Do you think it's her families idea? Only you both know the situation but surely she wouldn't go if she thought the baby might be at risk?
i think you need to be very tactful in how you approach the issue, she's pregnant and far from home. She might be feeling lonely and like she needs her family. Could her parents or close relatives come sooner?

implausible

Overall, it doesn't sound like a great idea, there are health risks to an unvaccinated baby and if the baby is formula-fed, you'd need to ensure an environment with clean water and v good hygiene. What you've said about the family's attitude to mixed race babies would make me uncomfortable too. Have you spent much time with them? I don't think that you being absent on this visit would help that issue.

You have three options as far as I can see:
1. Change your leave around so you can go with her in Sept
2. Use the money to bring her mum or sister over here (visa issues non-withstanding)
3. Put off the visit until the child is older and you have more holidays (you can use time, price of flights and health concerns as reasons).

wuffly

OP I think you need to clarify the conditions of where your wife and baby will be staying, have you been there yourself? people seem to be assuming they will be in some sort of shack exposed to all sorts. Its not like your OH is planning to take the baby for a jolly, this is her home country where she was born and presumably raised. India might be a developing country but there are many classes of people, its pretty unfair to assume the baby will be exposed to mozzies and dirty water. If the baby is being formula fed, she is hardly going to magically forget how to prepare formula safely when she gets off the plane. There is far more to India, most of my Indian colleagues go home to have their babies even though we have decent enough insurance (UAE). 
Look at it from her point of view, you will be at work 9-5 presumably, she could be with her family who will help with the baby and give her some down time. 
Your concerns re her family not welcoming the baby would be where I would be concerned.

judeboy101

If you let your child leave the country you risk not seeing it again I'd insist on marrying the gf before baby arrives (quickie civil ceremony) tell gf it just less messy for baby for citizenship or some other bull. If she leaves with baby and does runner you are in stronger legal position.

spurious

The racism is quite strong in this thread. People resenting babies?

uck51js9zml2yt

spurious wrote: »

The racism is quite strong in this thread. People resenting babies?

It's not uncommon depending on what caste she belongs to.

seamus

This is not really an Indian thing. It's very common, from what I've seen, for foreign nationals to go home either to have their baby, or for a significant period of time while the baby is an infant. It's very understandable, and not really a massive reason for concern.
Most cultures invoke some form of community assistance when it comes to rearing a child, so a woman disconnected from her extended family will feel a strong desire to go back to that support.

2 weeks isn't a long time. Many foreign nationals go back for 6-12 months, because it's cheaper to fly a woman and a baby out there than to fly grandparents and 20 aunts and uncles over here.

Play it by ear. Chances are the baby will arrive and the extended family will be oohing and aahing over it and won't be able to get enough of it. Things move quickly and change quickly after the arrival of a baby, chances are by the end of June your outlook on this will be totally different.

implausible

wuffly wrote:

India might be a developing country but there are many classes of people, its pretty unfair to assume the baby will be exposed to mozzies and dirty water. If the baby is being formula fed, she is hardly going to magically forget how to prepare formula safely when she gets off the plane.

Not an assumption, but surely something worth asking about? I'd be concerned about bringing a small unvaccinated baby to a place where the climate and environment are different. The family issue is a huge concern on top of this.

ncmc

spurious wrote: »

The racism is quite strong in this thread. People resenting babies?

I'm really struggling to see the racism here? The OP said in his second post that there are members of his wife's family that do not accept mixed race people/children. Another poster paraphrased by saying there are people in the family who might resent the baby. That's not racism, it's a statement of fact as put forward by the OP. The word racism is so overused these days, very often incorrectly, that it's beginning to lose all meaning. The OP knows his GF and her family better than us, he obviously feels he has valid concerns or else he wouldn't be posting.

Beanybabog

I think there's a big difference between being uncomfortable with the situation and having genuine concerns. If you have specific genuine concerns address them with her. If it's just being uncomfortable with the thought of her traveling and the baby being young, I think you'd have to take it on the chin. She'll be missing out on a lot of support when she has the baby and will be dying to spend time with her family. I know girls who travelled to Russia and Brazil with their young babies in the same situations. If your girlfriend has a good head on her shoulders you should support her. Just because her family are traditional doesn't mean the child is at risk. The ideal situation would be for you to take your paternity leave or unpaid leave and go too. I'd just ask her to hold off making promises until the baby arrives- she may well change her mind and ask her folks to come here or prefer to wait until you can go with her to help her

jimmurt

wuffly wrote: »

OP I think you need to clarify the conditions of where your wife and baby will be staying, have you been there yourself? people seem to be assuming they will be in some sort of shack exposed to all sorts. Its not like your OH is planning to take the baby for a jolly, this is her home country where she was born and presumably raised. India might be a developing country but there are many classes of people, its pretty unfair to assume the baby will be exposed to mozzies and dirty water. If the baby is being formula fed, she is hardly going to magically forget how to prepare formula safely when she gets off the plane. There is far more to India, most of my Indian colleagues go home to have their babies even though we have decent enough insurance (UAE). 
Look at it from her point of view, you will be at work 9-5 presumably, she could be with her family who will help with the baby and give her some down time. 
Your concerns re her family not welcoming the baby would be where I would be concerned.

Well no I wasn´t so much worried about the quality of everything in India as she is from a upper class family who have probably nicer living conditions than mine. It´s more a trip to the other side of the world without me when there is no reason why we cannot hold off a little bit. And then there is the big one of how people, including her parents will react to the baby.

Anyway, we have decided not to go ahead with this trip but instead visit there ourselves at the end of Feb, beginning of March.

Also there is an option for her parents to come here later in the year.

jimmurt

spurious wrote: »

The racism is quite strong in this thread. People resenting babies?

I´m sorry but how is that racism? My GF has told me that older members of her own family would not welcome me or the child. That includes grandmother, some aunts and cousins.

That´s me saying a specific thing about specific people from her experience and knowledge.
I didn´t just arrive at that conclusion myself.

It´s a valid concern for me then, nothing racist at all.

jlm29

Just remember that the weeks/months after having a baby can be very lonely for the mum. The days can be so so long at home with no adult company. I understand that you would also want to see your partner and child after work, but remember her mental health is important too!
Maybe she has a great social circle and will be grand, but if not, I could understand why she might want to spend time at home with her family

ncmc

That's great jimmurt, glad you were able to come to a resolution. Best of luck with the new arrival.

sadie06

spurious wrote: »

The racism is quite strong in this thread. People resenting babies?

Are you referring to my post? I was paraphrasing the OP, who clearly stated in his second post that several family members and friends of his wife's are completely against interracial relationships, and that she would be heading into a situation in India where not everyone would be happy about the baby.

I was suggesting that if he feels his baby may be around negative attitudes because of deep-seated racism, he should wait until he can at least be present also to monitor the situation.

Delighted to see that a resolution was found.

topmanamillion

judeboy101 wrote: »

If you let your child leave the country you risk not seeing it again I'd insist on marrying the gf before baby arrives (quickie civil ceremony) tell gf it just less messy for baby for citizenship or some other bull. If she leaves with baby and does runner you are in stronger legal position.

No indication that this is even an issue. However, if the OPs GF were to leave with their baby I fail to see how being married would make a lick of difference.

wuffly

I have friends that were in a somewhat similar situation, his parents are extremely traditional and even tho they have lived in the Uk for 30+ years his mother doesn't speak any English. Anyway his parents didn't attend the wedding, still not mad about his wife as she is white and english etc... but they love their grand kids.
Glad you seem to have it sorted but bare in mind it may come up again, try to see it from her point of view and try not to let it escalate.
Best of luck to you both.

spurious

To explain my racism remark. Bringing a child 'home' for grandparents and other relatives to see it is a worldwide phenomenon. If it were an Australian Irish couple bring a child to the Aran islands, would people think twice?

We have some neck to presume the care taken of any child would be anything less than the best people could do, though it could be argued the cold weather and lack of medical facilities on Inishmore for a child born in an Australian climate would be 'dangerous'.

Anyway, to the OP, congratulations and enjoy every second with your child. The years fly by.

spurious

spurious wrote:

The racism is quite strong in this thread. People resenting babies?

spurious wrote:

We have some neck to presume the care taken of any child would be anything less than the best people could do, though it could be argued the cold weather and lack of medical facilities on Inishmore for a child born in an Australian climate would be 'dangerous'.

If you read the posts by the op you would see that he had valid concerns.

"We have some neck". Who is "we?" Western guilt eating you up? Your bolloxology about Inishmore is redundant and your desire to be offended is laughable.

Delighted you got a resolution OP

implausible

spurious wrote: »

To explain my racism remark. Bringing a child 'home' for grandparents and other relatives to see it is a worldwide phenomenon. If it were an Australian Irish couple bring a child to the Aran islands, would people think twice?

We have some neck to presume the care taken of any child would be anything less than the best people could do, though it could be argued the cold weather and lack of medical facilities on Inishmore for a child born in an Australian climate would be 'dangerous'.

Anyway, to the OP, congratulations and enjoy every second with your child. The years fly by.

Of course people will do the best that they can do, but an Irish child would be vaccinated against diseases that may occur here, there are different risks in different countries. It is not racist to enquire about clean water in the part of India they might go to, it would probably be racist to suggest that there is no clean water there.

And yes, the change in climate would be difficult for a child who is not used to it whether you are coming from a hot climate or going to one. These things have to be taken into account when dealing with a tiny person with a developing immune system.

Ciarrai76

jlm29 wrote: »

Just remember that the weeks/months after having a baby can be very lonely for the mum. The days can be so so long at home with no adult company. I understand that you would also want to see your partner and child after work, but remember her mental health is important too!
Maybe she has a great social circle and will be grand, but if not, I could understand why she might want to spend time at home with her family

That was the first thing that came to my mind. She may just long to see her mom for starters. As someone who just had a baby 6 months ago, I would have been lost without my mom around and if I lived abroad I would have probably been dying to get home asap!

pwurple

If she wants to go home with her baby to her parents, I would see that as completely normal. Are any members of her family here? 
Vaccinations, are ye having a laugh? They have babies and doctors and even hospitals in India too you know. It's not the moon. I know a few women who spent the entire maternity leave travelling the world with the baby. Sling, boobs and off you go.

Now, OP, as you are not married, this is where I'd foresee a potential problem. You won't be legal guardian of that child, and frankly won't have any rights whatsoever towards him/her. You can't tell her to do anything at all with the child, so tread extremely carefully befor you start putting your foot down or any similar nonsense. If a child is born to an unmarried mother, make no mistake, she is the sole guardian. 
The law changed last year on that, but I don't know if you will come under the conditions, so check with your solicitor on what needs to be satisfied there. (or, if you are planning on staying together long-term, get the finger out and make your relationship a legally valid one.)

endagibson

Ciarrai76 wrote: »

That was the first thing that came to my mind. She may just long to see her mom for starters. As someone who just had a baby 6 months ago, I would have been lost without my mom around and if I lived abroad I would have probably been dying to get home asap!

Is she going to India or America?

Ciarrai76

endagibson wrote: »

Is she going to India or America?

I know She's going to India, I've read the OP. I'm sure also that this woman knows her own country and wouldn't put her child at risk. The point I was making is that I can see why she would want to be with HER family after having a baby.

implausible

pwurple wrote: »

Vaccinations, are ye having a laugh? They have babies and doctors and even hospitals in India too you know. It's not the moon. I know a few women who spent the entire maternity leave travelling the world with the baby. Sling, boobs and off you go.

Don't see your point - I'd see getting vaccinations as a big deal. If I was travelling to India myself, I'd be getting them and I'm a grown adult. The least you'd do if bringing a small child is get them vaccinated against diseases that are more common there than they are here i.e. an Irish-born child would not be immune to typhoid. The Tropical Medical Bureau recommends these: