Learning to fly? Ulster Flying Club?

Consonata

Hello,

I was wondering if there is anybody here who has any experience of learning to fly with the Ulster Flying Club as they are by far the cheapest on the Island at the moment.

From what I can see they have it that you can learn to fly at a little under €9k , so from my view that seems to be a very good deal. Has anybody any experience of them? Or does anybody have any other club that they suggest might be cheaper to learn.

martinsvi

there are few things to consider here - first of all - where are you based yourself? I would recommend to train at a club that's closest to you - the closer you are to the club, the likelier you will go for a flight on a split second decision bases.. A lot of times you will wake up in the morning looking at the forecast thinking - oh this day is going to be a write-off.. well if it clears up all of a sudden, proximity will give you the flexibility and flexibility is an incredibly needed attribute in Irish climate

next thing to think about is whether you want to study and keep your records under CAA of UK or Irish Aviation Authority.. There are some tiny things which can make dealing with CAA a bit annoying, they tend to be very slow in processing records and issuing licences. You also need to have certain exams passed before you can fly solo. IAA in this regard is more flexible.. you only need to have your theoretical exams done before doing the skills test

Typically where you train is where you will do a good deal of initial flying after getting your licence. I wouldn't want to be based in NI to be honest - to get out of there in any direction, you will have to file a flight plan and submit a GAR form 4 to 12 hours before your departure depending on where you're going. It can be very restrictive and annoying - again the unpredictable climate comes in to play - I've cancelled more GARs and Flight plans than I've used and on the odd occasion when the wheather actually turns out to be good, you can't do anything, because by the time your GAR becomes active, you've already have lost most of your daylight. Being based in South at least gives you quite a few more land mass to explore and airfields to visit

Other than that - I haven't dealt with Ulster myself, but the grapevine says they're a decent bunch. If you're close to them, by all means, go with them

arubex

Being based in South at least gives you quite a few more land mass to explore and airfields to visit

So long as you avoid controlled airspace, which requires flight plans in the South. So Weston, Shannon Cork, Donegal, Waterford, Knock... anything with Class C requires a flight plan an hour in advance. Landing at an uncontrolled airfield requires phoning-in to close the flight plan, which again is different to the UK ( where VFR flight plans usually just expire ).

Not criticising your post, just pointing-out that poddling around the South isn't necesarily jump-in-and-go.

martinsvi

arubex wrote: »

So long as you avoid controlled airspace, which requires flight plans in the South. So Weston, Shannon Cork, Donegal, Waterford, Knock... anything with Class C requires a flight plan an hour in advance. Landing at an uncontrolled airfield requires phoning-in to close the flight plan, which again is different to the UK ( where VFR flight plans usually just expire ).

Not criticising your post, just pointing-out that poddling around the South isn't necesarily jump-in-and-go.

It's not 1 hour, it's 30 minutes actually.. and in practice a lot of times you can call up ATC some 10 miles before entering their airspace and give your details over the radio and they will be happy to open up a plan for you and let you in.. works with Waterford, Sligo etc.. Dublin too for transits etc. Also when landing back in an uncontrolled airspace, I close my flight plan over the radio whenever changing the frequency from FIS to local A/G.. In fact Dublin will typically ask you if you don't fancy closing the plan whilst you're still in the air, as a lot of people simply forget to phone in afterwards..

so it is pretty much jump-in-and-go, good folks at ATC across the country make stuff happen for you, all you have to do is just ask, be nice and know what you're doing

notharrypotter

so it is pretty much jump-in-and-go,

AIP Ireland
Open AIC 18 of 2014 (Guidance on VFR flight in Airspace Classes C and G and Information on the Provision of Flight Information and Alerting Service therein.) for correct information.

martinsvi

notharrypotter wrote: »

AIP Ireland
Open AIC 18 of 2014 (Guidance on VFR flight in Airspace Classes C and G and Information on the Provision of Flight Information and Alerting Service therein.) for correct information.

you make it sound as if I said something wrong, yet the AIC you refer to, albeit expired, pretty much confirms what I said? If I said something wrong, can you please point it out?

notharrypotter

yet the AIC you refer to, albeit expired

There is no expiry date on the AIC.
It is the official documentation and should be first reference point for anyone planning to fly.

nd in practice a lot of times you can call up ATC some 10 miles before entering their airspace and give your details over the radio and they will be happy to open up a plan for you and let you in

ENR 1.10 - 2
4.2 VFR Flight Plans

ATS Unit will accept flight plans from aircraft in the air, however this procedure (AFIL) should only be used when no other means of submission is practicable.

martinsvi

notharrypotter wrote: »

There is no expiry date on the AIC.
It is the official documentation and should be first reference point for anyone planning to fly.

the very bottom line on the document says - This Aic expires June 2015

notharrypotter wrote: »

ENR 1.10 - 2
4.2 VFR Flight Plans

ATS Unit will accept flight plans from aircraft in the air, however this procedure (AFIL) should only be used when no other means of submission is practicable.

yes, I agree to this to extent - sometimes FIS are so busy they have very little time to have your full details - normally I would use IAA website and submit the flightplan there, you literally submit the FPL, go check your aircraft, taxy out and by the time you're airborne, 30 minutes have passed and off you go..

the story around regional airports is different thou - if you call them up before hand, they sometimes offer you to file the flight plan when you actually make it to their boundary.. there's a lot of practical reasons for that, I won't go into too much details, but if you're a pilot yourself, you probably might have some idea where this could provide some benefits for both - ATC and yourself

anyway, that doesn't change the fact that facility is there if needed and IAA have done all they can to make things easy for us enabling literally to "jump-in-and-go"... of course If your experience varies, please share it rather than pointing me to to paperwork as if I'm fundamentally wrong

Irish Steve

Moderator Note

This thread started as a question regarding learning to Fly in Ulster.

It is NOT a thread for point scoring about the relative merits or otherwise of the way that the IAA operates, or requires Pilots to operate.

CEASE and DESIST, or suffer the consequences

martinsvi

with all due respect, I don't think we've done anything wrong, this discussion could be fruitful - it is important that OP realizes that there are differences between how 2 authorities operate or what being based in one side of the border or other provides... Consecutively choosing whichever way he/she prefers.. My only wish would be that our contributors would drop their linguist/lawyer masks and stop knitpicking on small stuff and contribute a bit more from their own experiences..

Irish Steve

martinsvi wrote: »

with all due respect, I don't think we've done anything wrong, this discussion could be fruitful - it is important that OP realizes that there are differences between how 2 authorities operate or what being based in one side of the border or other provides... Consecutively choosing whichever way he/she prefers.. My only wish would be that our contributors would drop their linguist/lawyer masks and stop knitpicking on small stuff and contribute a bit more from their own experiences..

I don't have a problem with valid discussion, that is what the board is for, my post came as a direct result of the thread being dragged off topic to argue about things like the validity or otherwise of a specific IAA document, and then getting into arguments about it.

To clarify that issue, and close it so that we can move on, AIC 10/16, issued in December 2016, shows that AIC 18/14 from 2014 that is the subject of the argument is still valid.

Yes, there is an expiry date on 18/14, but for whatever reason, that expiry has not happened. So, please, let's move on and end the arguments about it in thread

If you are not happy with this. do NOT post in thread, but move the discussion to PM, which is where it now needs to be if necessary.

The sort of thing I'd like to see going forward is a discussion about the differences (if any) between Irish and UK experience times before the grant of a licence, the differences (if any) in when and where the licence can be used, and the ease with which it can be used in aircraft in a different jurisdiction,

Another issue for discussion might be the attitude of CAA and IAA to the use of permit aircraft for night and IFR flight, and the validity of "foreign" licences in those areas,

Availability, pricing and validity of medical examinations is another subject worth exploring, as is the availability of venues to take the necessary exams that are an essential part of licence issue.

Stovepipe

I agree with Martinsvi; I have flown in and out of most of the regionals and the ATC people are usually quite open to air filing and are quite relaxed, although one place I used was as rigidly controlled as if it was Dublin. I used to fly GA out of Dublin, way back when, and they could be quite accomodating when it was possible. In some places, the ATCo was easily the most helpful of all the airport staff.

logie101

Consonata wrote: »

Hello,

I was wondering if there is anybody here who has any experience of learning to fly with the Ulster Flying Club as they are by far the cheapest on the Island at the moment.

From what I can see they have it that you can learn to fly at a little under €9k , so from my view that seems to be a very good deal. Has anybody any experience of them? Or does anybody have any other club that they suggest might be cheaper to learn.

I do not think that UFC are the cheapest in Ireland. Trim Flying Club are probably cheaper.

I learnt to fly, and continue to fly out of both N'Ards and Weston. So I've a good insight in flying in both places.
In my opinion the ULster Flying Club is by far the best place to learn to fly in Ireland.
The availability of full time instructors, multiple hard cross runaways, uncontrolled airspace, no landing fees (the club in effect own the airport), runaway lights, fantastic scenery and a great club atmosphere.
That's just my 2 cents worth.

Could be worth checking out Navan airfield. Good instruction being carried out there.