Top 100 Courses 2017 - Golf Digest Ireland

Kevinmarkham

The rankings are out for 2017.

Here you go. Top 100 Ranking.

There will be another ranking coming our way in the next couple of months... the comparisons will be fascinating!

dan_ep82

I've played 8 from that list, hope to add to it.

fred funk }{

We really have a lot of incredible courses for such a small country.

FixdePitchmark

Played 45 of them.

Will try get that up to 60 this year.

htp

some strange movements in the list.

FixdePitchmark

Don't get Portmarnock at the top all the time.

Putt it there

Ceann Sibéal (Dingle) should be much higher .

neckedit

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

Don't get Portmarnock at the top all the time.

It's a great course..... but one man's meade etc

thewobbler

I've played 40 of them now.

My own golf journey, which has gone from an initial love of championship parklands to adulation of dune-heavy links, right through to a full appreciation for classic parklands,has seen me derive a simple 2 part calculation for favourite courses. Marks out of 10 for memorability and marks out of 10 for playability. I've come to the conclusion that everything else we talk about ultimately gets factored into those two weightings.

By my (peculiar) calculations, the two best courses I've played so far (by a clear head) are Murvagh and Druids Glen. Courses I'd happily play every day forever.

Played RCD again lately (6th time) and I'm growing less enamoured with the place. It's simply too cruel in places, and the last 6 holes would honestly be marked down anywhere else but on its exalted land. It's a treat to play but that's not in my mind enough for its perennial top position.

luvthegame

thewobbler wrote: »

,has seen me derive a simple 2 part calculation for favourite courses. Marks out of 10 for memorability and marks out of 10 for playability.

Its a well worn path here in terms of discussing rankings etc but the bottom line is how do they do it.? I have been a readers panel assessor for golf digest. Here was the rating scheme when I did it

Each course you played marked out of 70;
Shotmaking 20pts
Scenery 10
Design Variety 10
Memorability 10
Playability 10
Conditions 10

We were given very good guidelines on how to interpret each category from AllyMcIntosh. You sent in your review with your ratings and explanations for each category. In reality though the readers panel has a very small percentage of the overall vote. It doesn't really influence the list much IMO.

You cannot create a ranking list without some structure. A course architect, professional, low handicap and high handicap are not going to see a course in the same way. Its never ideal but I think they do a relatively good job. However a list of 100 is too big. A top 30 - 40 would suffice and then just put the others in categories IMO.

Golf is supposed to be FUN. So you play the courses you think are memorable. Not everyone has to agree on everything.

slave1

Can't understand Shannon's position, Farnham has gone downhill considerably too with boggy conditions worsening.
I'm a reviewer and have played 60 of them, absolutely love it, virtually all my time of work now is course reviews (outside family holidays abroad).
My favourite course last year was Ardglass, blew me away (almost quite literally!)

Kevinmarkham

For anyone interested, I've just updated the blog. The magazine's final list and the list I was provided with (to their online ranking) were slightly different...

... but it's a big difference: Portmarnock drops to number 3, while Royal Portrush rises to number 2. The North now gets bragging rights to the top two courses!

Rum Ham!

I've only played 11, some really great course in this country. Would like to get to a few more this year.

billy3sheets

I reckon I've played between 30 and 34 but some were a long time ago, maybe 25 plus years!
Biggest surprises for me were:
Laytown Bettystown - played an open there last year and would not rate it highly at all
Arklow - ok but not a Top 100 course
Roganstown - think it's a Top 100 course

It's an incredible list though. Roughly 25% of the courses on the island is think.

Lots of decent courses around the Waterford-Tipperary-Kilkenny region as well as Dublin area which I've played are nowhere near the list.

HighLine

Probably biased with it being my home course but was surprised not to see Wicklow GC on there. It was in stunning condition last year and the greens are very hard to beat.
Elsewhere I would have Druids Glen higher than 30. Macreddin a lot higher than 94 and Carton House - Montgomerie a LOT lower than 36... maybe 70+.

fred funk }{

HighLine wrote: »

Probably biased with it being my home course but was surprised not to see Wicklow GC on there. It was in stunning condition last year and the greens are very hard to beat.
Elsewhere I would have Druids Glen higher than 30. Macreddin a lot higher than 94 and Carton House - Montgomerie a LOT lower than 36... maybe 70+.

It's all about who spends the most on advertising (so I'm told).

mafc

fred funk }{ wrote: »

It's all about who spends the most on advertising (so I'm told).

Heard this too from a very reliable source, so I look at that list and take it with a grain of salt.

golfer555

So in that sense the Farnham Estate must be paying a bucket load to be so high up.

FixdePitchmark

mafc wrote: »

Heard this too from a very reliable source, so I look at that list and take it with a grain of salt.

But even if a factor - not too many arguments within the tolerance of debate in top 25 there.

Only one that seems out of place there is K club ? , but haven't played it.

Golfgraffix

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

But even if a factor - not too many arguments within the tolerance of debate in top 25 there.

Only one that seems out of place there is K club ? , but haven't played it.

To be fair, the Palmer Course is very good as parkland courses go.

Delighted to see my home course move up two to 23.

J

billy3sheets

Ahem.
Where's Adare Manor?
I know it's in Co Limerick but seems to have gone from 9th in 2016 ranking to nowhere this year.

morrga

billy3sheets wrote: »

Ahem.
Where's Adare Manor?
I know it's in Co Limerick but seems to have gone from 9th in 2016 ranking to nowhere this year.

Not considered for inclusion this year because it is closed for renovation. If the links fascination is toned down a bit, it will go close to number 1 when it's Augusta styled course reopens later this year.

billy3sheets

morrga wrote: »

Not considered for inclusion this year because it is closed for renovation. If the links fascination is toned down a bit, it will go close to number 1 when it's Augusta styled course reopens later this year.

Ah okay. I thought I heard that but nothing on the website.

Golfgraffix

morrga wrote: »

Not considered for inclusion this year because it is closed for renovation. If the links fascination is toned down a bit, it will go close to number 1 when it's Augusta styled course reopens later this year.

From what I have seen of the renovations it will be the number one park land, stunning changes.

J

slave1

Golfgraffix wrote: »

From what I have seen of the renovations it will be the number one park land, stunning changes.

J

It already was, and has been for many years, think it's all about getting the RC

plumber77

slave1 wrote: »

It already was, and has been for many years, think it's all about getting the RC

I doubt it will be as accessible to the club golfer once it's finished though.

Linton Walsh

To Note: The Golf Digest Ireland Top 100 Ranking Panel meeting took place last October in County Sligo. The Golf Digest Ireland Top 100 rankings were finalised at this meeting and this list has NOT been changed in any way since. The Golf Digest Ireland Top 100 Rankings published by Kevin Markham last Friday was incorrect. The note posted yesterday by Kevin Markham, stating that the list had been updated following a late rankings change by the magazine is completely untrue, disappointing and unacceptable. Kevin Markham has today stated that this was his error. To view the correct Golf Digest Ireland Top 100 Irish Golf Course Rankings visit golfdigestTop100.ie.

HighLine

You registered just to slate another long term poster? Hmmm.

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to how you come up with your top 100 list?

Linton Walsh

Check out the panel - How many people on it would put their name to it if it had anything to do with advertising?

Ally McIntosh

HighLine wrote: »

You registered just to slate another long term poster? Hmmm.

Perhaps you could enlighten us as to how you come up with your top 100 list?

Linton is just ensuring the right information is out there. I think that's fair.

Having sat on the panel for 5 years up until the 2015 rankings, I know that they had nothing to do with advertising and were completely independent so it always amused me when that one was consistently trotted out.

I do think 5 years was enough for me though. I'd run my course in regards to constructive input and it was starting to feel like a repeat process. A biennial Top-50 might be more meaningful (or at least having a second fifty that were not numbered).

Not sure who made up the panel this year. I'd like to know the caliber of the decision makers.

Linton Walsh

Telling the truth and presenting the facts shouldn't be confused with slating anybody.

In terms of the process, each year Golf Digest Ireland writes to all Irish Golf Clubs and asks if they they have completed any upgrade work or if they would like a member of the panel to visit their golf club.

The replies are added to last years Golf Digest Ireland Top 100 ranked golf courses and the top 30/40 golf courses, who did not make it into last years rankings. This list of circa 140 golf clubs then becomes the list of golf courses to be accessed during the upcoming year.

We have two panels, one made up of industry professionals from different sectors within the Irish Golf Industry: green keepers, general managers, PGA pro's, elite amateur golfers, tour operators etc. This is our senior panel.

The second panel is made up of 70/80 readers. The selection of this panel is based on gender, handicap and geographical location. The aim is to get each course on the list accessed by golfers of different handicaps and gender, 4/5 times at different times throughout the year.

Each one will meet the General manager or club official to get an update on any upgrade work which has taken place. He or she will then play the course and submit their assessment to the magazine. These course assessments go on throughout the summer.

At the end of the golfing season, the Senior Panel meets up for two days of discussion and debate. We begin with the Top 10 golf courses from last year and discuss the possible courses that could possible make it into the Top 10. These are in the main, golf courses who were ranked 11 - 15 in last year list, but not always.

We then discuss the golf courses in the Top 10 that could possible slip out of the Top 10. Any letter received from any golf club in this bracket is read out, along with assessments and scores from our Readers Panel. Once we have discussed this, we then write down the list of 15 golf courses and we vote on them. The result of this vote gives us the golf clubs who will be in the Top 10 section (not in any position).

We then discuss which clubs could come out of the Top 5 and which clubs could go into the Top 5. These two sections (not final positions) are verbally agreed around the table. We then discuss and debate the Top 5. On this is completed, we do a secret vote around the table - add up the scores and this gives us the actual positions of the Top 5. We repeat this for the second section, places 6-10 and this gives us the positions 6-10. This process is repeated for position 11- 20 and then repeated again throughout the entire list.

Once the list is completed, we add in the readers scores which counts for 25% of the overall vote. At the end of the second day we review every club and their position on the list and if it is felt that a club's position is incorrect a vote is taken and it is either moved or it is not. Once this list has been reviewed it becomes the final rankings to be signed off by the magazine.

The whole process takes eight months to complete and involves circa. 100 Irish golfers.

The rankings is hugely important to the brand and also to Irish golf clubs. I know people who have lost their jobs because of their course ranking. There is a great responsibility on the magazine to produce fair and accurate rankings of golf courses in Ireland. We do this thorough the people we use - industry experts and ordinary golfers and with a transparent process. As a result the Golf Digest Ireland Top 100 rankings have become the industry standard for the best golf courses in Ireland.

Over the years the process and the people has evolved into what it is today. Nothing is perfect, but I don't know of a golf magazine in the Europe that goes to so much trouble to produce a rankings or includes so many ordinary golfers their assessments.

First Up

Its a very elaborate and detailed process but I really have to wonder how some courses get on the list.

The actual sequence is too subjective for minor changes in ranking to be taken too seriously but there's about half a dozen that I wouldn't cross the road to play for free. For example Seapoint, St Annes and Hermitage wouldn't be in my top 250.

Linton Walsh

All rankings are subjective, even I would have issues with some courses but my vote is a small part of the overall score

Kevinmarkham

Linton Walsh wrote: »

To Note: The Golf Digest Ireland Top 100 Ranking Panel meeting took place last October in County Sligo. The Golf Digest Ireland Top 100 rankings were finalised at this meeting and this list has NOT been changed in any way since. The Golf Digest Ireland Top 100 Rankings published by Kevin Markham last Friday was incorrect. The note posted yesterday by Kevin Markham, stating that the list had been updated following a late rankings change by the magazine is completely untrue, disappointing and unacceptable. Kevin Markham has today stated that this was his error. To view the correct Golf Digest Ireland Top 100 Irish Golf Course Rankings visit golfdigestTop100.ie.

Indeed I did state on the blog that it was my mistake.

I have to confess, I thought it was part of a cunning plan to mislead anyone who got their hands on the list early/through 'back channels'. I guess I never expected to see Portmarnock and Royal Portrush to change places... certainly not this year.

FixdePitchmark

Linton Walsh wrote: »

Telling the truth and presenting the facts shouldn't be confused with slating anybody.

.

The language was a bit harsh to say the least.

Kevin has done way more for the average punter getting a feel for these places than anyone I have come across in the game in the last 5 years. In any space - online , publishing etc. I've been able to go to any county in the country - pull out his marks and he hasn't sent me wrong once.

Not to mention his photography, that is outstanding and invaluable to the "ordinary golfer".

You know you are in trouble with the average punter when you are not considered an "expert" and are part of the great unwashed "ordinary golfer".

Would you be able to publish what way the rating would be if it was just the 25 % . Would be interesting if different.

It was part of a movement in 2016 - that people are a bit sick of experts - expert groups tend to be influenced by themselves and to a create their own narrative and self importance. Groupthink.

From an "Ordinary golfer" .

Ally McIntosh

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

The language was a bit harsh to say the least.

Kevin has done way more for the average punter getting a feel for these places than anyone I have come across in the game in the last 5 years. In any space - online , publishing etc. I've been able to go to any county in the country - pull out his marks and he hasn't sent me wrong once.

Not to mention his photography, that is outstanding and invaluable to the "ordinary golfer".

You know you are in trouble with the average punter when you are not considered an "expert" and are part of the great unwashed "ordinary golfer".

Would you be able to publish what way the rating would be if it was just the 25 % . Would be interesting if different.

It was part of a movement in 2016 - that people are a bit sick of experts - expert groups tend to be influenced by themselves and to a create their own narrative and self importance. Groupthink.

From an "Ordinary golfer" .

I agree that Kevin has done a huge amount to bring good golf courses to the attention of the masses. In fact, where he stands apart is being able to give space to unheralded courses that most haven't given much thought to. The fact that all courses in Hooked get equal space is very important.

Regards the order of the courses if it were just the 25%, you'd be surprised. In my time, they were uncannily close to the main panels ranking. Having studied this a bit, I actually began to understand that the "groupthink" was therefore actually feeding the readers panel more so than the main panel because they were quite clearly being swayed by the main panel results of the year before. In other words, they were adhering to the norms of the way the "experts" led them.... Either that or the experts aren't too far off the mark in the first place...

As for getting sick of experts, well that all depends who those experts are. There are a few on the panel who have no right to be rating courses and then there are others who are intimately knowledgeable.

Clearly, I reckon a listing by me alone is much more informative than one that is neutralised and equalised by a larger group. A rating by Kevin would be the same. Or by Pat Ruddy. Or by Linton. Or by anyone. That way you understand what you're getting and learn which commentators you can trust. Which ones conform to what you like.

As an aside, I reckon that there is and should be a level of objectivity in rating golf courses. If someone does not have the skills to be objective then they have not yet studied or learnt them. It takes time to understand not just whether you like a course or not but exactly why you like a course or not.

Kevinmarkham

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

The language was a bit harsh to say the least.

Kevin has done way more for the average punter getting a feel for these places than anyone I have come across in the game in the last 5 years. In any space - online , publishing etc. I've been able to go to any county in the country - pull out his marks and he hasn't sent me wrong once.

Not to mention his photography, that is outstanding and invaluable to the "ordinary golfer".

You know you are in trouble with the average punter when you are not considered an "expert" and are part of the great unwashed "ordinary golfer".

Would you be able to publish what way the rating would be if it was just the 25 % . Would be interesting if different.

It was part of a movement in 2016 - that people are a bit sick of experts - expert groups tend to be influenced by themselves and to a create their own narrative and self importance. Groupthink.

From an "Ordinary golfer" .

Cheers for the vote of confidence, Fix. Much appreciated.

Overall, as Ally points out, everyone has their own opinion of what makes a course worthy of a top 10/top 100 inclusion, which is why no golf course ranking will ever be as good as the one a golfer picks him/herself.

I have issues with the GDI ranking. I always have because there are some unfathomable decisions. This year the switching of Tralee and Ballybunion is, for me, more questionable than the Portmarnock/Royal Portrush reversal. The inclusion of Wexford is barking mad. Barking. Mad. As good a course as it is, it is not anywhere near the top 100 or the 40 next best courses. But then that's my opinion. And, like you, I'm an ordinary golfer.

newport2

Can't bring myself to agree with a lot of these. Druid's Glen is far better than 30th. Old Head is a stunning setting and a great experience to play, but 12th? If the course as it is now was surrounded by fields it wouldn't make the top 50 IMO. Wouldn't rank either Carton House in the top 50 or St. Anne's in the top 100 either.

But everybody to their own I guess. Thanks for posting the link.

First Up

newport2 wrote:

Can't bring myself to agree with a lot of these. Druid's Glen is far better than 30th. Old Head is a stunning setting and a great experience to play, but 12th? If the course as it is now was surrounded by fields it wouldn't make the top 50 IMO. Wouldn't rank either Carton House in the top 50 or St. Anne's in the top 100 either.

Agree. Druids Glen is the best parkland by a country mile - and I would drop Druids Heath about 100 places.

luvthegame

Ally McIntosh wrote: »

I actually began to understand that the "groupthink" ..........In other words, they were adhering to the norms of the way the "experts" led them....

This was my experience (in how I found myself rating). And its inevitable when you are taking a wide range of golfers most of whom have never looked at a golf course the way a designer might, that you have to give them a frame of reference to mark off.

Ultimately however I believe players such as myself have absolutely no business contributing to this type of ranking. Compiling a list of courses that people enjoyed playing the most then by all means. Lets create lists made by the categories senior, junior, intermediate etc.

But once you start looking at flow, layout, intent of the designer then leave it to the experts who make a living from this sort of thing. People don't like experts anymore

thewobbler

This is becoming an interesting debate.

In every form of expertise we of course need experts, but the experts tend to be have passions and fascinations that just don't interest the average man, but can (if unchecked) play havoc on their own thought processes.

This is a regular issue in my own discipline (web design) where all too many designers design for designers instead of audiences. Or design to be different, not better. Doing that helps them win awards... but not help their client win customers.

Golf course experts seem drawn to the opposite way of thinking I.e. That no matter how learned and skilled you become, It's not possible to even hope to compare with the work done by men 130 years ago, before drones, earthmovers and irrigation systems appeared.

Part of this comes from a form of golf Darwinism, whereby those that survived the first 50 years of golf's growth undoubtedly had to have something special about them. Part of it comes from the fact that a well-maintained, obviously-loved, mature course is truly one of life's pleasures, and younger courses can do little but wait.

But from my obtuse perspective, I reckon a lot of the classic courses now enjoy a very sympathetic handing from the experts, who will happily gloss over a world of dubiousness and negative points, and concentrate solely on their plus points. Whereas the average Joe might just scratch his head and ask the question "seriously, is it that good at all?".

Hence I think it's vital that the average joe can chip in their opinion.

This is design. Design is subjective.

newport2

thewobbler wrote: »

This is becoming an interesting debate.

In every form of expertise we of course need experts, but the experts tend to be have passions and fascinations that just don't interest the average man, but can (if unchecked) play havoc on their own thought processes.

This is a regular issue in my own discipline (web design) where all too many designers design for designers instead of audiences. Or design to be different, not better. Doing that helps them win awards... but not help their client win customers.

Golf course experts seem drawn to the opposite way of thinking I.e. That no matter how learned and skilled you become, It's not possible to even hope to compare with the work done by men 130 years ago, before drones, earthmovers and irrigation systems appeared.

Part of this comes from a form of golf Darwinism, whereby those that survived the first 50 years of golf's growth undoubtedly had to have something special about them. Part of it comes from the fact that a well-maintained, obviously-loved, mature course is truly one of life's pleasures, and younger courses can do little but wait.

But from my obtuse perspective, I reckon a lot of the classic courses now enjoy a very sympathetic handing from the experts, who will happily gloss over a world of dubiousness and negative points, and concentrate solely on their plus points. Whereas the average Joe might just scratch his head and ask the question "seriously, is it that good at all?".

Hence I think it's vital that the average joe can chip in their opinion.

This is design. Design is subjective.

I think there's also an element of people afraid to call out what is considered a great course if they don't agree that it is. It's a bit like a good wine, some people will dismiss you as not being able to appreciate it if you say anything against it, so a lot of group think is the result.

Linton Walsh

Everyone makes mistakes Kevin and you did admit it. My only issue is that in between making your mistake and admitting it, you posted on your blog "Please note that this listing was updated at 2:30pm on Sat 7 Jan, following a late ranking change by the magazine". This implied to all that read it, that the magazine had changed the rankings, which was not the case.A retraction of this false and damaging statement along with apology would have been more appropriate. I see you have done this last night and I appreciate that.

newport2

Linton Walsh wrote: »

Everyone makes mistakes Kevin and you did admit it. My only issue is that in between making your mistake and admitting it, you posted on your blog "Please note that this listing was updated at 2:30pm on Sat 7 Jan, following a late ranking change by the magazine". This implied to all that read it, that the magazine had changed the rankings, which was not the case.A retraction of this false and damaging statement along with apology would have been more appropriate. I see you have done this last night and I appreciate that.

The most damaging statement to the magazine I read was the one you made initially. Harsh language as stated above, rude in tone and a total over-reaction. If something as trivial as this is "damaging" and poses a threat to Golf Digest (it doesn't) then it's in big trouble already. Let it go. Nobody's going to cancel their subscription based on whether something was edited prior to publication or not. But then you know that already.

Hoof Hearted2

Linton Walsh wrote: »

Everyone makes mistakes Kevin and you did admit it. My only issue is that in between making your mistake and admitting it, you posted on your blog "Please note that this listing was updated at 2:30pm on Sat 7 Jan, following a late ranking change by the magazine". This implied to all that read it, that the magazine had changed the rankings, which was not the case.A retraction of this false and damaging statement along with apology would have been more appropriate. I see you have done this last night and I appreciate that.

newport2 wrote: »

The most damaging statement to the magazine I read was the one you made initially. Harsh language as stated above, rude in tone and a total over-reaction. If something as trivial as this is "damaging" and poses a threat to Golf Digest (it doesn't) then it's in big trouble already. Let it go. Nobody's going to cancel their subscription based on whether something was edited prior to publication or not. But then you know that already.

Hed your own advice, he already acknowledged the correction.

bmay529

Played 52 so far with Lahinch, Tralee and Dingle on my hit list for 2017 so if anyone can advise best way to play these courses without forking out €150+ for the privilege!!! Best course I played this year was Enniscrone, always nice to go back there.

ballyk

bmay529 wrote: »

Played 52 so far with Lahinch, Tralee and Dingle on my hit list for 2017 so if anyone can advise best way to play these courses without forking out €150+ for the privilege!!! Best course I played this year was Enniscrone, always nice to go back there.

Tralee hold scratch cups every year which are well worth entering. I can't remember exactly what they charge, maybe €40, but much lower than €150 anyway!

Hoof Hearted2

ballyk wrote: »

Tralee hold scratch cups every year which are well worth entering. I can't remember exactly what they charge, maybe €40, but much lower than €150 anyway!

I think it was €50 in 2016 for the Junior, Intermediate and €60 for the Senior SC, 18 holes for the JSC and ISC and 54 holes (minimun 36 holes, a cut was applied after 36 holes) for the SSC. I'm not sure if they hold a minor scratch cup.

Ceann Sibeal (Dingle), regularly hold open comps, iirc the entry was €30 in 2016.

Crapgolfer

Coolattin & Mountrath anyone? Abbeyleix perhaps?

First Up

Crapgolfer wrote:

Coolattin & Mountrath anyone? Abbeyleix perhaps?

I'm a fan of Coolattin. Only thing holding it back is the primitive clubhouse and services.

Crapgolfer

True. I'm a bit of a car park golfer so it's all about the course for me. Blinkered!. Castlecomer is a nice course too.