Are they days of being a club Pro limited?

thejourney

Even when I was not around I paid an away membership to support the club during the tough times 08=13

However upon my return the club has lost the two pros and the shop. I was told online sales have taken away sales on shoes, balls, tees , gloves etc

Are few other clubs have lost Pros as many have gone to normal jobs, which I would find it hard to see them leaving

Also lessons are not as common with great online instruction and devices to help the golfers perhaps that was a lose in money

Really hope that the Club Pro sense in Ireland is not dying, has anyone else noticed this?

Ollieboy

This is actually a really good question. Does golf clubs actually need pro's or what function do they now have in a modern golf club.

A lot of members in golf clubs will buy there stuff from the local pro who usually matches the price of the local retailers like McGuirks etc, but I think it's unfair for members to believe that the local pro can now carry enough stock to meet the demands of most golfers, I.e. Shaft sizes. So with decreasing sales and profitability for the actual pro, then the club will have to provide more financial support to the pro to keep him at the club.

The pro's in most clubs do a lot more then just sell equipment and give lessons, they actually run the daily comp's, so could clubs replace these people if the business isn't within the club to support a pro? Or could the club actually run the pro shop themselves? I doubt it.

CalamariFritti

I think a pro is needed. Its not just lessons and selling balls, coca cola, fitting new grips etcpp. Someone has to man the (pro) shop. Handle green fees. Hand out the buggies. Manage the time sheet, hand out score cards, act as a bit of a starter. We all know what they do.

I do believe that in the smaller clubs it will be difficult to scrape out a half decent living from that. A lot of people will buy their balls and the odd glove and their fizzy water. But probably go elsewhere for fitting and a new set of irons. Not all but many I believe. Hard to compete for a small pro shop with the big chains and online price wise. The way we deal with it in my club is that most prices where vouchers are involved these have to spent either in the bar or in the pro shop. Sounds a bit unfair to some but hey we're amateurs. You're not supposed to win a €100 and spend it in Tesco. You're supporting the club facilities and the pro/shop is part of that. I have no problem with it.

I want my pro shop.

mike12

Don't think anyone every got rich being a club pro.
Lessons are their main source of income but they need a active membership to keep them going.
Every driving range has 3 or 4 pros working full time giving lessons

thejourney

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I think a pro is needed. Its not just lessons and selling balls, coca cola, fitting new grips etcpp. Someone has to man the (pro) shop. Handle green fees. Hand out the buggies. Manage the time sheet, hand out score cards, act as a bit of a starter. We all know what they do.

I do believe that in the smaller clubs it will be difficult to scrape out a half decent living from that. A lot of people will buy their balls and the odd glove and their fizzy water. But probably go elsewhere for fitting and a new set of irons. Not all but many I believe. Hard to compete for a small pro shop with the big chains and online price wise. The way we deal with it in my club is that most prices where vouchers are involved these have to spent either in the bar or in the pro shop. Sounds a bit unfair to some but hey we're amateurs. You're not supposed to win a €100 and spend it in Tesco. You're supporting the club facilities and the pro/shop is part of that. I have no problem with it.

I want my pro shop.

Well they also get a precentage of green fees and weekly golf fee

Hoof Hearted2

Yes the club pros days are numbered, much like the days of the internet troll.

FixdePitchmark

I can see it actually coming back a little now.

There are so many young pros out there and - even if wages will be lower , the guy working in the shop will be young but have a golf qualification.

It is a tough job to make a living, but a young guy with good ideas can regenerate the role and do ok on the lesson front.

A pro is a great addition to a club.

Seve OB

look at a good club
you will always see a good club shop - they go hand in hand

a good club will always have the need for a pro and shop.

mind you a pro has to be more than just a pro, to be a good pro, they need to have to be good business people also. a good pro (golfer) might run a crap shop.... and they wont last

FixdePitchmark

Seve OB wrote: »

look at a good club
you will always see a good club shop - they go hand in hand

a good club will always have the need for a pro and shop.

mind you a pro has to be more than just a pro, to be a good pro, they need to have to be good business people also. a good pro (golfer) might run a crap shop.... and they wont last

New guys have a more all rounded background. Customer service etc.

The day of the grumpy old pro is gone - and to be honest, no harm.

blue note

I'd consider a club pro to be crucial to a proper club. But, the sales from balls and clubs and to a lesser extent clothes must surely have dried up to a large extent. My father got a new driver in McGuirks for 199e before Christmas. Went to the club proshop first to ask about it and the best he could do was 330e. And that's not out of greet, I'd say he'd be losing a good bit of money on selling one for anything like 199e.

But, they do far more than run a shop which is crucial to the club. As people say, green fees, time sheets, club comps, lessons as well as the shop (you still need to sell bits as well as club gear). I think clubs will just have to subsidise them more now. Give them a higher basic wage as well as letting them make money from lessons and shop sales.

Keano

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

Yes the club pros days are numbered, much like the days of the internet troll.

Don't post in this thread again.

Seve OB

blue note wrote: »

I'd consider a club pro to be crucial to a proper club. But, the sales from balls and clubs and to a lesser extent clothes must surely have dried up to a large extent. My father got a new driver in McGuirks for 199e before Christmas. Went to the club proshop first to ask about it and the best he could do was 330e. And that's not out of greet, I'd say he'd be losing a good bit of money on selling one for anything like 199e.

But, they do far more than run a shop which is crucial to the club. As people say, green fees, time sheets, club comps, lessons as well as the shop (you still need to sell bits as well as club gear). I think clubs will just have to subsidise them more now. Give them a higher basic wage as well as letting them make money from lessons and shop sales.

but that's just it. they shouldn't have to be subsidised if they ran the shop properly. I understand it is not just about them, it falls to the members etc and not every shop will always be successful, but a lot of them just don't bother from what I have seen. I take your point about the driver in mcguirks, & the internet etc but a good business person will plan for all that kind of thing. It's not just golf clubs who have that kind of stuff to compete against, and what clubs can do moreso than other businesses, is offer a personal service.

Now I know of one very big and prominent well established golf club in Dublin who have a pro that is muck and not liked or appreciated by the members. A clear indication of a bad business person if you ask me. Competition winners get vouchers for............. McGurks .... WFT :rolleyes:

blue note

Seve OB wrote: »

but that's just it. they shouldn't have to be subsidised if they ran the shop properly. I understand it is not just about them, it falls to the members etc and not every shop will always be successful, but a lot of them just don't bother from what I have seen. I take your point about the driver in mcguirks, & the internet etc but a good business person will plan for all that kind of thing. It's not just golf clubs who have that kind of stuff to compete against, and what clubs can do moreso than other businesses, is offer a personal service.

Now I know of one very big and prominent well established golf club in Dublin who have a pro that is muck and not liked or appreciated by the members. A clear indication of a bad business person if you ask me. Competition winners get vouchers for............. McGurks .... WFT :rolleyes:

A personal service? People will be happy to support their pro shop for the friendly guy inside to the tune of a bottle of water and a mars bar before the Sunday competition. They'll get the bits and bobs in there and use vouchers when they win them or get them. But if they're buying anything big they'll shop around for the extra selection and the savings and / or the fittings. No amount of personal service is going to bridge that gap.

Basically, balls and clubs would have been one of the main income sources for pro shops 20 years ago. Now that income source is largely gone. It's all well and good saying that they should plan for it and act accordingly, but essentially it's a golf shop and if they're struggling to sell the big items they're in trouble.

So members have to think about what they want. A pro shop might take a bit of subsidy. Or you could get rid of the shop, put in vending machines, run the competitions and green fees out of the office / bar. Automate whatever you can. Let other pros advertise for lessons in the clubhouse. Personally I'd like to keep the proshops. If it costs an extra 20e in my membership I think that's fine. I'm probably still saving money by buying my balls and clubs in McGuirks!

ChippingSodbury

blue note wrote: »

I'd consider a club pro to be crucial to a proper club. But, the sales from balls and clubs and to a lesser extent clothes must surely have dried up to a large extent. My father got a new driver in McGuirks for 199e before Christmas. Went to the club proshop first to ask about it and the best he could do was 330e. And that's not out of greet, I'd say he'd be losing a good bit of money on selling one for anything like 199e.

Our local Pro is part of a buying group and his prices are always competitive. I bought US Kids golf irons recently for €29 ea., they were €35 ea. in McGuirks in Airside.

blue note

ChippingSodbury wrote: »

Our local Pro is part of a buying group and his prices are always competitive. I bought US Kids golf irons recently for €29 ea., they were €35 ea. in McGuirks in Airside.

A buying group is a great idea actually. Thinking about it now I don't know why they aren't all in this.

thejourney

blue note wrote: »

A buying group is a great idea actually. Thinking about it now I don't know why they aren't all in this.

Because all great golfers are loners at heart

Montgolfier

blue note wrote: »

I'd consider a club pro to be crucial to a proper club. But, the sales from balls and clubs and to a lesser extent clothes must surely have dried up to a large extent. My father got a new driver in McGuirks for 199e before Christmas. Went to the club proshop first to ask about it and the best he could do was 330e. And that's not out of greet, I'd say he'd be losing a good bit of money on selling one for anything like 199e.

But, they do far more than run a shop which is crucial to the club. As people say, green fees, time sheets, club comps, lessons as well as the shop (you still need to sell bits as well as club gear). I think clubs will just have to subsidise them more now. Give them a higher basic wage as well as letting them make money from lessons and shop sales.

I find it hard to believe that mcguircks were cheaper than your pro. Maybe it's because of the sale either way a club pro will do a price match if asked.

Seve OB

blue note wrote: »

A personal service? People will be happy to support their pro shop for the friendly guy inside to the tune of a bottle of water and a mars bar before the Sunday competition. They'll get the bits and bobs in there and use vouchers when they win them or get them. But if they're buying anything big they'll shop around for the extra selection and the savings and / or the fittings. No amount of personal service is going to bridge that gap.

Basically, balls and clubs would have been one of the main income sources for pro shops 20 years ago. Now that income source is largely gone. It's all well and good saying that they should plan for it and act accordingly, but essentially it's a golf shop and if they're struggling to sell the big items they're in trouble.

So members have to think about what they want. A pro shop might take a bit of subsidy. Or you could get rid of the shop, put in vending machines, run the competitions and green fees out of the office / bar. Automate whatever you can. Let other pros advertise for lessons in the clubhouse. Personally I'd like to keep the proshops. If it costs an extra 20e in my membership I think that's fine. I'm probably still saving money by buying my balls and clubs in McGuirks!

Yes, a personal service. As above, prices in our shop are competitive, pros who know you and your game, will recommend stuff to suit you, and tell you what to avoid. give you lessons and a lot cheaper than getting lessons down at the local range.. And fittings, yes club pros offer fittings also! :eek:

you clearly don't have a decent shop or decent pros running it, if you had, you would know, and probably wouldn't be buying all your stuff in McGurks.

Seve OB

Montgolfier wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that mcguircks were cheaper than your pro. Maybe it's because of the sale either way a club pro will do a price match if asked.

the thing is McGurks often buy loads of stuff without even knowing what they are getting. They also buy old end of line gear, odds and ends. Eg, recently, they bought a heap of Nike stuff, knocked down to clear, just one big job lot. It wasn't until they opened it up did they know what they got, but they got a deal, so can pass that on to the customer. Club orders are going to be a lot more specific.

But yes, for modern stuff, I also believe a good pro shop can do the same, and more often, a better price if you talk to them.

blue note

Montgolfier wrote: »

I find it hard to believe that mcguircks were cheaper than your pro. Maybe it's because of the sale either way a club pro will do a price match if asked.

The club pro was asked and said he couldn't match it. It was a Callaway driver for 199e so I'd assume it was on sale. But McGuirks or Halpenny will always have a few great clubs on special offer. The club shops won't have anything like that range on special offer.

blue note

Seve OB wrote: »

Yes, a personal service. As above, prices in our shop are competitive, pros who know you and your game, will recommend stuff to suit you, and tell you what to avoid. give you lessons and a lot cheaper than getting lessons down at the local range.. And fittings, yes club pros offer fittings also! :eek:

you clearly don't have a decent shop or decent pros running it, if you had, you would know, and probably wouldn't be buying all your stuff in McGurks.

Do many club pros have the equipment that people are looking for for fittings now? I'd have thought that for fittings now people want trackmans.

The shop is comparable to others I've been in in terms of stock and value. I do look out for the bargins when looking for new equipment. And actually, thinking back to when I replaced my irons (about 4 or 5 years ago) I narrowed it down to 3 sets in the end. I ended up going for the one in Birr golf shop (€499 for 9 R11 irons, they were about €699 for 8 elsewhere), but the runner up choice were Callaway RazrX irons which were €399 in my pro shop new and about €599 online.

I think my pro shop is probably quite good as pro shops go, but I don't see how you can get away from the fact that 20 years ago far more people bought equipment from their pro shop. Even though they'll still have a lot of loyal customers, there will also be a lot of people who'll do their golf shopping online. Their income has taken a hit and they're not all surviving. I would rather pay a bit to subsidise mine than see it disappear.

The Rape of Lucretia

CalamariFritti wrote: »

I think a pro is needed. Its not just lessons and selling balls, coca cola, fitting new grips etcpp. Someone has to man the (pro) shop. Handle green fees. Hand out the buggies. Manage the time sheet, hand out score cards, act as a bit of a starter. We all know what they do.

Yes, someone has to do the above. And as you list it it, it is very basic work. In the line of a casual corner shop assistant. Golf pro's pay is pretty low, but in line with the above work, and to have the service, it may as well be a pro for that little extra that they bring. Very small courses, out of the way nine holers, etc, where there is simply not the activity or income to have anyone at all employed full time are fine without them though.

PARlance

blue note wrote: »

A buying group is a great idea actually. Thinking about it now I don't know why they aren't all in this.

Quiet a lot of them are. I think the main one in Ireland has about 80 Pros in it.

CalamariFritti

The Rape of Lucretia wrote: »

Yes, someone has to do the above. And as you list it it, it is very basic work. In the line of a casual corner shop assistant. Golf pro's pay is pretty low, but in line with the above work, and to have the service, it may as well be a pro for that little extra that they bring. Very small courses, out of the way nine holers, etc, where there is simply not the activity or income to have anyone at all employed full time are fine without them though.

The difference between the pro and a young one on a tenner an hour womanning the shop is that the pro cares, she's invested. Good look with that young one filling the sandbags and stamping the score cards at 6:30 in the morning. You'd be greeted with a sneer and scorn over the unbelievable hour of the day she had to get up to hand you your score card.

But I agree with you as I said it before, smaller set ups will be struggling to provide all the facilities and not lose money.