Car accident query-received call from Gardai

j4vier

Hello,

so a while back I was involved in a small accident which was not my fault.

Eventually I got it sorted under the other person insurance who accepted liability.

Now I received a call from the gardai saying that I need to produce 3 things at the garda station within 10 days.

1: driving license
2: sheet which came with the insurance disc
3: sheet which came with the nct

is this standard practice? Finding it a bit odd that I am asked for this now, considering that on the day of the accident when I rang them I was told that it was a civil matter and nothing to do with them.

Points 1,2 are ok but I'm not sure if I have the sheet which came with the NCT disc. I have the disc obviously, but I can't remember where I put the sheet that came with the disc.

I'm hoping that the NCT can send me a new one if I ask them to.

Gumbo

j4vier wrote: »

Hello,

so a while back I was involved in a small accident which was not my fault.

Eventually I got it sorted under the other person insurance who accepted liability.

Now I received a call from the gardai saying that I need to produce 3 things at the garda station within 10 days.

1: driving license
2: sheet which came with the insurance disc
3: sheet which came with the nct

is this standard practice? Finding it a bit odd that I am asked for this now, considering that on the day of the accident when I rang them I was told that it was a civil matter and nothing to do with them.

Points 1,2 are ok but I'm not sure if I have the sheet which came with the NCT disc. I have the disc obviously, but I can't remember where I put the sheet that came with the disc.

I'm hoping that the NCT can send me a new one if I ask them to.

NCT will give you a duplicate once you produce ID and pay the fee.

On another note, why not keep the cert with your service history as it proves at a point in time the mileage of the car.

Atlantic Dawn

It would be common for them to ask for them to be produced within 10 days when they attended the scene of the accident, perhaps just an oversight and the Garda now needs it.

This from NCT site...

You can replace either of the above for a fee of €15.50.

You must go to your local Garda station and obtain an RF134 form, which must be stamped and signed by the Gardaí. Send this completed form back, along with either your windscreen disc or NCT Certificate, whichever part you may still hold, and a bank draft or postal order payable to Applus Car Testing Service Ltd., to:

The Test Certificate Administrator,

NCTS, Lakedrive 3026,

Citywest Business Campus,

Naas Road, Dublin 24.

For a replacement NCT Report, simply write in with car registration number, make and model and owner details along with the €15.50 fee to the Test Certificate Administrator at the above address. These fees may be subject to change

j4vier

kceire wrote: »

NCT will give you a duplicate once you produce ID and pay the fee.

On another note, why not keep the cert with your service history as it proves at a point in time the mileage of the car.

that's ok, good to know I can get one .

you are right about that, should have been more careful with the document

j4vier

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

It would be common for them to ask for them to be produced within 10 days when they attended the scene of the accident, perhaps just an oversight and the Garda now needs it.

This from NCT site...

They never attended the scene, as they were not interested when I rang them.

Buffman

j4vier wrote: »

is this standard practice? Finding it a bit odd that I am asked for this now, considering that on the day of the accident when I rang them I was told that it was a civil matter and nothing to do with them.

j4vier wrote: »

They never attended the scene, as they were not interested when I rang them.

On the face of it, it does seem strange to only come up now. How long ago was the incident? Is the Garda who contacted you stationed in the local Garda Station to where the incident occured?

shietpilot

Sounds like the person at fault contacted a relative Garda and they are trying to check if you were NCTed and insured on the day of the incident...

j4vier

Buffman wrote: »

On the face of it, it does seem strange to only come up now. How long ago was the incident? Is the Garda who contacted you stationed in the local Garda Station to where the incident occured?

start of november, the claim was settled only in mid december though

yes the garda that rang me is at my local station, where I rang on the day

Special Circumstances

j4vier wrote: »

They never attended the scene, as they were not interested when I rang them.

You'd have to wonder what their sudden interest is in it now. And considering they didn't respond at the time and you were not at fault I'd certainly be tempted to leave it at "tough t1tties garda". Easy to say when they aren't ringing me I suppose.

If they didn't respond at the time, is it pretty much the equivalent of them picking up the phone book and requesting randomers to supply their documentation within 10 days for the laugh?

Are you allowed to ask them what the pulse number is for the incident?

j4vier

shietpilot wrote: »

Sounds like the person at fault contacted a relative Garda and they are trying to check if you were NCTed and insured on the day of the incident...

and I am, I have everything displayed.

Problem is, they want all the documentation, not just the disc.

I'm just hoping that I have the NCT sheet at home

j4vier

Special Circumstances wrote: »

You'd have to wonder what their sudden interest is in it now. And considering they didn't respond at the time and you were not at fault I'd certainly be tempted to leave it at "tough t1tties garda". Easy to say when they aren't ringing me I suppose.

If they didn't respond at the time, is it pretty much the equivalent of them picking up the phone book and requesting randomers to supply their documentation within 10 days for the laugh?

Are you allowed to ask them what the pulse number is for the incident?

I just asked them why are they ringing me now, and he said he didn't have to tell me.

Buffman

j4vier wrote: »

start of november, the claim was settled only in mid december though

yes the garda that rang me is at my local station, where I rang on the day

That's recent enough so. I'd imagine what happened is the other persons insurance probably required them to get the Garda involved and they're only following it up now.

I wouldn't worry about it, when you get your replacement NCT certificate call in. Remember to ask the Garda for a receipt to show you brought in the documents.

zl1whqvjs75cdy

j4vier wrote: »

I just asked them why are they ringing me now, and he said he didn't have to tell me.

That seems like total bollox. He wants your details but won't tell you why? I'd be asking more questions before handing anything over.

nhunter100

j4vier wrote:

I just asked them why are they ringing me now, and he said he didn't have to tell me.

Just gather the relevant documents, go to the station request the duty Sargent and produce the documents saying you are doing so at the request of Garda 'whomever'.

j4vier

Buffman wrote: »

That's recent enough so. I'd imagine what happened is the other persons insurance probably required them to get the Garda involved and they're only following it up now.

I wouldn't worry about it, when you get your replacement NCT certificate call in. Remember to ask the Garda for a receipt to show you brought in the documents.

good tip thanks

j4vier

donkeyoaty0099 wrote: »

That seems like total bollox. He wants your details but won't tell you why? I'd be asking more questions before handing anything over.

you know they way they get a bit tick when you ask questions, he started to sound a bit like that over the phone

I'll have no problems producing the document anyhow, just hassle i suppose

Special Circumstances

Joshua CoolS Terrier wrote: »

That seems like total bollox. He wants your details but won't tell you why? I'd be asking more questions before handing anything over.

Usually I'd be one for advocating the "yes garda, no garda 3 bags full garda" respectful co-operation rather than getting "clever" with them if you deal with them in the general day to day... but this really seems odd.

I wonder is there any legit way to "push back" here, or will it just make the OPs life more difficult even if all their stuff is correct.

Special Circumstances

Buffman wrote: »

That's recent enough so. I'd imagine what happened is the other persons insurance probably required them to get the Garda involved and they're only following it up now.

I wouldn't worry about it, when you get your replacement NCT certificate call in. Remember to ask the Garda for a receipt to show you brought in the documents.

I object to the gardai being the insurance companies b1tches though. If they didn't attend the scene, and there is no reasonable suspicion that the OP was driving without a valid licence or insurance then the garda shouldn't be at the beck and call of the insurers in my mind.


Definitely get the receipt. Some of them get a bit thick about this too "don't you trust me", just tell them it's for your records or something.

flutered

for the op this is payback time in some regards as they could not wriggle out of the payment, so they are out to make life a little difficult in respect of their insurance getting a large bump, as the other driver knows a keystone who knows a keystone this is their only redress, a nasty type in real life i guess

BobMc

I second getting receipt that you showed (they'll most likely grumble about it) happened my dad couple years back again a no fault accident, 3 summonses arrive in post had receipt still had to turn up in court though (pain in ass)

GBX

What would be the outcome if you didn't produce?

j4vier

BobMc wrote: »

I second getting receipt that you showed (they'll most likely grumble about it) happened my dad couple years back again a no fault accident, 3 summonses arrive in post had receipt still had to turn up in court though (pain in ass)

why did he had to show up in court? was the claim not settled by the insurance?

Or even if the insurance settles it, the liable party can refuse liability again and take the issue to court?

j4vier

GBX wrote: »

What would be the outcome if you didn't produce?

good question which I should have asked and I forgot to.

Timberrrrrrrr

Can the guards just call out of the blue like this and request these documents? Could op ring back and ask for the request in writing?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

endagibson

How do you know it was a guard OP?

Buffman

j4vier wrote: »

you know they way they get a bit tick when you ask questions, he started to sound a bit like that over the phone

I'll have no problems producing the document anyhow, just hassle i suppose

I bet it was a blocked number ringing you? Another reason I never ever answer withheld numbers. It's never good news and will almost always cost you money!:D

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I object to the gardai being the insurance companies b1tches though. If they didn't attend the scene, and there is no reasonable suspicion that the OP was driving without a valid licence or insurance then the garda shouldn't be at the beck and call of the insurers in my mind.

Agreed, I'm just speculating on the insurance angle, somebody in the other car could now be claming for injuries or something, so the Gardai would have to be involved then. It's a box ticking exercise and it's annoying that all this stuff can't be checked on computer by Gardai without the hassle of producing. The NCT and Licence databases should be accurate enough, but not the Insurance one unfortunately.

Special Circumstances wrote: »

I wonder is there any legit way to "push back" here, or will it just make the OPs life more difficult even if all their stuff is correct.

It's not worth hassle in this case IMO, if it was for an incident from over 6 months ago I'd be asking a lot more questions alright.

Special Circumstances

Patww79 wrote: »

I'd just produce and get the receipt. Gardai can make your life difficult in so many ways if they feel like it so best to just play ball.

Buffman wrote: »

I
It's not worth hassle in this case IMO, if it was for an incident from over 6 months ago I'd be asking a lot more questions alright.

Sad but true. :mad:

j4vier

Buffman wrote: »

I bet it was a blocked number ringing you? Another reason I never ever answer withheld numbers. It's never good news and will almost always cost you money!:D



Agreed, I'm just speculatingon the insurance angle, somebody in the other car could now be claming for injuries or something, so the Gardai would have to be involved then. It's a box ticking exercise and it's annoying that all this stuff can't be checked on computer by Gardai without the hassle of producing. The NCT and Licence databases should be accurate enough, but not the Insurance one unfortunately.



It's not worth hassle in this case IMO, if it was for an incident from over 6 months ago I'd be asking a lot more questions alright.

yes blocked number indeed! I have no proof that he was indeed a guard, but he didn't ask me for any personal details over the phone. He asked me about the accident events, he didn't seem to know that the other person's insurance accepted liability but told me that I had 10 days to produce those documents.

Rushden

Basically the other party reported the accident at a station somewhere. The guard now needs your details as the other party involved to make sure all was in order. He can't close off the incident without your details. Just produce the documents and you'll hear nothing again in the future, it's just standard procedure. As for the delay, it could've been reported at another station and only arrived to this guard recently or the insurance company is looking for details because their client stated he reported it

Buffman

j4vier wrote: »

yes blocked number indeed! I have no proof that he was indeed a guard, but he didn't ask me for any personal details over the phone. He asked me about the accident events, he didn't seem to know that the other person's insurance accepted liability but told me that I had 10 days to produce those documents.

Ye, it's standard enough in these situations, the other party must have reported it if the Gardai didn't take your details when you called.

That 10 days includes weekends so I'd recommend ordering the replacement NCT certificate today if possible.

beggars_bush

Joshua CoolS Terrier wrote: »

That seems like total bollox. He wants your details but won't tell you why? I'd be asking more questions before handing anything over.

Solicitor time

j4vier

Buffman wrote: »

Ye, it's standard enough in these situations, the other party must have reported it if the Gardai didn't take your details when you called.

That 10 days includes weekends so I'd recommend ordering the replacement NCT certificate today if possible.

I just want to have a look this evening at home to see if I can find it.

Can the replacement be obtained at the same NCT facility where I did it or only via post?

it seems I will need a form stamped by the garda anyway to obtain a replacement

To replace a certificate or disc, go to your local Garda station and obtain an RF134 form, which must be stamped and signed by the Gardaí.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

It seems that the general consensus is that the Gardai can do as they wish, ask for whatever they want without giving any reason. This seems very unusual to me. The Gardai weren't bothered getting involved when the OP wanted to get them involved, now they are involving themselves without offering any assistance. Very odd.

If the settlement has gone through, why are the Gardai looking for this information now?

Special Circumstances

Some bizarre system though.

"hello Garda, I'm a tax paying citizen and I've been involved in a collision and I'd like you to attend the scene"
"No one injured, we're not coming out, civil matter"

versus

"Hello Garda, I'd like to report a historical collision where my insurance paid out and no one was injured"
"Sure thing, is there anyone you'd like us to inconvenience?"

"Hello Garda, I represent an insurance company and I'd like you to inconvenience somebody after the fact"
"Not a bother, you'd like me to check all their documentation even though they were not at fault and we didn't attend the scene? I'll get right on it!"





If they are obliged to do all this box ticking stuff after the fact, based on a phonecall about a historical "civil matter"

---

why don't they just attend the scene and be a lot more useful?

If we are involved in an accident where no one is injured should we just ring them and say "hello garda, I'm not sure as I don't have the documents to hand but my driving licence, NCT and insurance could all be invalid, could you attend the scene and check myself AND the other party while you're at it?"
Is this the only way to get them out if your stuff is legit, no one is injured, but you have doubts about the other party???

Sad that we have to go the "don't make a fuss, it'll cost in the long run" route on these things.

endagibson

Special Circumstances wrote: »

If we are involved in an accident where no one is injured should we just ring them and say "hello garda, I'm not sure as I don't have the documents to hand but my driving licence, NCT and insurance could all be invalid, could you attend the scene and check myself AND the other party while you're at it?"

I think that you're on to something here.

I've never been involved in a collision, but I had decided to call the Gardai if I ever was, claiming that I'm potentially injured. My reasoning being that just after a collision, I could not be certain that I wasn't.

Now I see that the best way to behave in the event of an RTC is to call the Gardai and claim that I'm unlicensed, uninsured and that there's no tax or NCT on the car either.

If the guard later finds out that I have all of those things, I must have been confused due to the collision.

uck51js9zml2yt

j4vier wrote: »

I just want to have a look this evening at home to see if I can find it.

Can the replacement be obtained at the same NCT facility where I did it or only via post?

it seems I will need a form stamped by the garda anyway to obtain a replacement

To replace a certificate or disc, go to your local Garda station and obtain an RF134 form, which must be stamped and signed by the Gardaí.

Rf134 applies to motor tax disc and vehicle registration book. Not the NCT

Buffman

j4vier wrote: »

it seems I will need a form stamped by the garda anyway to obtain a replacement

To replace a certificate or disc, go to your local Garda station and obtain an RF134 form, which must be stamped and signed by the Gardaí.

That's an added pain in the hole alright, and in typical Irish goverment bureaucratic fashion the RF134 doesn't even have a section regarding NCT.
And then

Send this completed form back, along with either your windscreen disc or NCT Certificate, whichever part you may still hold, and a bank draft or postal order payable to Applus Car Testing Service Ltd., to:

so you then have to leave yourself without any proof of NCT to get a replacement!


Personally, I'd just produce the NCT disc as proof if I'd lost the certificate. If they have the neck to summons you to court trying to argue that's not sufficient proof, I'd happily take the day off work to see them go in front of a Judge with that case.

j4vier

Decker Great Horseshoe wrote: »

Rf134 applies to motor tax disc and vehicle registration book. Not the NCT

seems it's for the NCT also

http://www.rsa.ie/en/RSA/Your-Vehicle/Your-Vehicle-/NCT/NCT-Certificate/

joujoujou

OSI wrote: »

Summons.

Summons? For what?

For ingnoring instructions given over the phone by unknown person claiming to be a Garda?

And what if OP hasn't that car anymore?

Special Circumstances

joujoujou wrote: »

Summons? For what?

For ingnoring instructions given over the phone by unknown person claiming to be a Garda?

And what if OP hasn't that car anymore?

You'd have to wonder alright.

Where did they get the OPs phone number? Diligently recorded by them after the "civil matter, we're not coming out unless someone is injured" conversation and retrieved after the fact when somebody else mentioned an incident on the same day?

Or insurance companies are allowed to ring up gardai and transfer the personal data of people they want "checked out" to them? Based on zero circumstances to suggest that they were driving illegally or even at fault?

Or random person is allowed to ring up a garda about a historical and perhaps imagined (how is the garda to know if it is or isn't if they didn't attend first day) "civil matter" and get the Garda to "check out" random people.

All seems very sloppy, whether it's procedure, lack of evidence or insurance companies data protection that's sloppy here.


How many times could I get "person X" checked out based on third party requests associated with a "civil matter" before the pulse records for that vehicle were enough for Garda to take notice any time they cam across it.

Person X asked to produce documents Jan 2017 (following request associated with unverifiable traffic collision)
Person X asked to produce documents Feb 2017 (following request associated with unverifiable traffic collision)
Person X asked to produce documents April 2017 (following request associated with unverifiable traffic collision)

"Jaysus lads there's something fishy about this guy I'd say, shtop em up there"



There should only be one answer for these things - "Civil matter, not interested" OR "OK we'll get a Garda to your collision within the next 20 minutes". Not this "pick and choose" depending on who asks.

j4vier

OSI wrote: »

Failure to produce a licence, proof of insurance or proof of NCT following a valid request from a Garda are all covered under a number of Statutes that allow for prosecution in court. Whether or not the request made is a valid one is the OPs decision to make, the consequences of failing to produce following a valid request are not.

it isn't just the proof that they wanted. The discs would be proof.

It is the whole cert that they requested. I am sure there are people more organised than me which keep all documents well accessible at all times.

Anyway I'm pretty confident that I have it, just wasn't expecting this random call 2 months after the claim, from a party which was not interested in the events and after having the claim itself settled.

Stheno

j4vier wrote: »

it isn't just the proof that they wanted. The discs would be proof.

It is the whole cert that they requested. I am sure there are people more organised than me which keep all documents well accessible at all times.

Anyway I'm pretty confident that I have it, just wasn't expecting this random call 2 months after the claim, from a party which was not interested in the events and after having the claim itself settled.

Ring the station back and ask to speak to the guard who phoned you and check if they really are a guard there

Kristopherus

j4vier wrote: »

good tip thanks

Is there any chance that the Garda to whom you were speaking is a relation/friend/etc to the other party involved in the tip?

zl1whqvjs75cdy

Good point on where they got the ops number from in a post above? On a point of principle I'd be questioning the guards about this. Easy for me to say of Course, the path of least resistance is just suppling the documents requested. Ridiculous carry on all together.

j4vier

Joshua CoolS Terrier wrote: »

Good point on where they got the ops number from in a post above? On a point of principle I'd be questioning the guards about this. Easy for me to say of Course, the path of least resistance is just suppling the documents requested. Ridiculous carry on all together.

that might be the easiest thing to do, if I can find the NCT cert later on, I'll be heading straight to the station so I can clarify face to face.

I guess the number could have been sourced from my insurance, the other's person insurance or the other person as we exchanged details.

j4vier

Kristopherus wrote: »

Is there any chance that the Garda to whom you were speaking is a relation/friend/etc to the other party involved in the tip?

Could be but I wouldn't know

j4vier

OSI wrote: »

Unfortunately the discs don't count as proof legally.

but are we not legally required to display the certs in our cars?

If they don't count as proof, why do we have to carry them?

Does that mean we need to carry the whole documentation all the time?

coylemj

This sounds highly irregular, the Gardai as we all know in most cases will refuse to get involved in an accident where there is no personal injury.

So why would a Garda out of the blue phone the OP looking for all these documents? It stinks to high heaven if you ask me, someone taking the p1ss is what's going on here.

OP, did the Garda ask you to nominate the station where you would produce these documents? If not then it's almost certainly a hoax which you can safely ignore. In a summons for failing to produce licence or insurance, it specifically says that you failed to produce at a station nominated by you.

On the NCT, the Garda can presumably check if the OP's car has a valid NCT and has no need whatever to see the last NCT sheet. As far as the Gardai are concerned, you either have a current NCT cert. or you don't, the sheet is for your records only.

Special Circumstances

j4vier wrote: »

that might be the easiest thing to do, if I can find the NCT cert later on, I'll be heading straight to the station so I can clarify face to face.

I guess the number could have been sourced from my insurance, the other's person insurance or the other person as we exchanged details.

If it was a "civil matter" at the time, then it is a "civil matter" now. IMHO.


If they can act on a citizen ringing up about a historical civil matter, why could they not act on your phone call? Procedure or priorities are messed up here if this is the case.

Bizarre really. Be interesting to ring when a different shift was on, report the same accident from your point of view and see if you can get the other party "checked out" by a different garda without having to supply any docs yourself. (Not sure if this would work, note that I say "interesting", doesn't necessarily make it "a good idea")

At least in that case I can understand that the phone number came from the other party and was volunteered to them as required.



The alternative is much worse IMHO-
The insurance companies are more important than private citizens and stuff that is fobbed off as "civil matters" to the general public is only followed up on when an insurance company calls, based on zero evidence of any illegality. Insurance companies are free to supply personal details (from a "civil matter") to gardai to create an everlasting pulse record based on "we'd like this fella inconvenienced, we've paid out and all and he wasn't at fault but lets not make it too easy on him"

Of course, they may have requested the check up before the payout.... and that's just fvcked up in a different way - gardai running around doing b1tchwork for the insurers "civil matter" and not even a courtesy phonecall to say "Actually we settled that, no need to waste time chasing that guy down".

j4vier

coylemj wrote: »

This sounds highly irregular, the Gardai as we all know in most cases will refuse to get involved in an accident where there is no personal injury.

So why would a Garda out of the blue phone the OP looking for all these documents? It stinks to high heaven if you ask me, someone taking the p1ss is what's going on here.

OP, did the Garda ask you to nominate the station where you would produce these documents? If not then it's almost certainly a hoax which you can safely ignore. In a summons for failing to produce licence or insurance, it specifically says that you failed to produce at a station nominated by you.

On the NCT, the Garda can presumably check if the OP's car has a valid NCT and has no need whatever to see the last NCT sheet. As far as the Gardai are concerned, you either have a current NCT cert. or you don't, the sheet is for your records only.

he said to call at any station, then I asked him if he was from a particular station where I reported it, and he said yes