Replace engine or scrap?

Ah_Yeah

The engine in my '06 Kia Sorento (2.5 tdi manual) went on me a few weeks ago as I was driving on the motorway - a rattling sound came from the engine, loud noises and I immediately pulled over. Breakdown rescue said there wasn't any oil in the tank, however I didn't get an oil light, albeit I stupidly didn't check the oil before doing a 400km round trip. Car gave no trouble or warning that there was a problem, was driving perfectly until it wasn't! It will still start fine but I haven't driven it since obviously.

It is with a mechanic near where it broke down (100km from my home) so I am dealing with them over the phone at the moment, they have said I need to replace the engine, Kia are not recommending it be reconditioned. They have also recommended I replace the clutch while they're at it - makes sense. They are quoting me €1,800 without an engine, I would need to source an engine myself and provide it to them.

I don't know a lot about cars so it's hard for me to know what the best course of action is to take - do I replace the engine or cut my losses and purchase a new (secondhand, new to me!) vehicle?

I understand my Kia is not worth much even with an engine in, but to me it would be worth more - I use it as a towing vehicle and it only had 110k miles on the clock when the engine went, and was really well minded. I found it to be very fuel efficient and one of the more cost effective 4x4s to run considering I use it as my day to day car too. However some people have said it's not worth replacing and if I could I should try to buy a newer 4x4 - I do have the savings to do so but I'm finding it difficult to find a replacement vehicle that is similiar to the Kia.

Any advice greatly appreciated.

colm_mcm

Supplying your own engine is risky as the garage don't have to stand over it,
Are you doing this through a main dealer?

Water John

Well you are working on total cost of repair. I think at €1,800 you are being ridden. Putting two lads on it for a day.
Insurance over 10 yrs has to be considered.

Ah_Yeah

colm_mcm wrote: »

Supplying your own engine is risky as the garage don't have to stand over it,
Are you doing this through a main dealer?

That was exactly my concern. No it's not through a main dealer it is through an independent reputable garage that I was recommended by the breakdown services.

James Bond Junior

1800 would probably buy you another one in and around the same year. Scrap it and move on.

Ah_Yeah

Water John wrote: »

Well you are working on total cost of repair. I think at €1,800 you are being ridden.
Insurance over 10 yrs has to be considered.

Exactly what I was thinking. Yes my insurance is pretty high as it is!

The newest 4x4 I could potentially afford is 2009/2010 so not much newer than a 2006 I suppose.

Ah_Yeah

James Bond Junior wrote: »

1800 would probably buy you another one in and around the same year. Scrap it and move on.

Thanks, sorry the replies are coming in quick so I am replying one by one!

I have looked on DoneDeal and can see they are worth about 3-4k so it did seem a bit foolish to invest what could be 2.5k by the time I get an engine into repairing it. The problem is trying to find a decent 4x4 at around 10-15k that would tow one horse and be reasonably efficient to run!

colm_mcm

They won't give you an all in price including engine?

James Bond Junior

Ah_Yeah wrote: »

Thanks, sorry the replies are coming in quick so I am replying one by one!

I have looked on DoneDeal and can see they are worth about 3-4k so it did seem a bit foolish to invest what could be 2.5k by the time I get an engine into repairing it. The problem is trying to find a decent 4x4 at around 10-15k that would tow one horse and be reasonably efficient to run!

Nissan x trail is often mentioned as a reasonably reliable and economical 4x4 but I'm not 100%

Water John

Not sure what you can tow with the new regs?

Ah_Yeah

colm_mcm wrote: »

They won't give you an all in price including engine?

No they have asked me to source one myself and have said I'd be looking at 600-1000 for an engine. They did try their local scrap yards but couldn't source one. I have been finding it hard to find one myself as most of the people I've spoken to have one with the silver cover and mine has a black cover, and they are different. Hard to do this when you don't know a lot about cars bar the very basics! IVI Engines was my next step but like you said, the concern is if something went wrong after the repair, they could easily say it was the engine and not their work etc that was the problem.

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Nissan x trail is often mentioned as a reasonably reliable and economical 4x4 but I'm not 100%

Yes them and the Hyundai Santa Fe were two options I was looking at. I couldn't afford nor justify the expense of running a Discovery or Landcruiser.

Water John wrote: »

Not sure what you can tow with the new regs?

Sorry I am not sure what you mean - do you mean the newer cars have lower towing capacity? I would need one rated to tow 2tonne basically - but also want a reliable enough one that won't break on me in a few years again!

colm_mcm

It's a bad state of affairs if they can't get an engine but they think you can.

Ah_Yeah

colm_mcm wrote: »

It's a bad state of affairs if they can't get an engine but they think you can.

That's a great point!

I half thought about arranging to get the car back to Dublin and having my own mechanic look at it, or even calling around a few garages to get some quotes. The repair cost is excluding an engine however it does include a clutch, flywheel and the servicing of the car as well. I don't know a lot about cars but I didn't think I'd need a flywheel as the car is still starting fine and gear changes have always been smooth, but who am I to argue!

bazz26

I'd say the garage probably don't want to take that work on. They are telling you to source an engine yourself and telling you it will cost nearly 2k to fit it which to me is them saying don't bother given the age and value of the vehicle.

I can see their point of view to be honest.

Ah_Yeah

bazz26 wrote: »

I'd say the garage probably don't want to take that work on. They are telling you to source an engine yourself and telling you it will cost nearly 2k to fit it which to me is them saying don't bother given the age and value of the vehicle.

I can see their point of view to be honest.

That was kind of what I was thinking and I also see where they are coming from.

Is the best course of action to see would a scrap yard take it in or try to shift it on DoneDeal? I obviously won't be breaking it myself.

What kind of money would this go for without an engine? I know not much but the car is in excellent condition, bodywork great and the garage themselves said everything is in great working order - bar the engine!

colm_mcm

€500-ish tops I'd say

bazz26

The price of scrap metal is depressing these days, I'd say you may only get €100-€200 for it and maybe less if they have to come collect it. Best thing to do is ring a few scrap yards to get an idea.

You might get a little bit more on DD listing it for breaking where someone is looking for a donor vehicle but you could be dealing with time wasters and chancers more interested in checking your property out than your car.

Ah_Yeah

colm_mcm wrote: »

€500-ish tops I'd say

bazz26 wrote: »

The price of scrap metal is depressing these days, I'd say you may only get €100-€200 for it and maybe less if they have to come collect it. Best thing to do is ring a few scrap yards to get an idea.

You might get a little bit more on DD listing it for breaking where someone is looking for a donor vehicle but you could be dealing with time wasters and chancers more interested in checking your property out than your car.

Sad times indeed! Such a shame as it's such a nice car. I feel a bit emotionally attached to it!

Thank you for all your help.

dieselbug

If the car is good and the mileage is low it may be worth saving. The divil you know and all that.
You will find that passenger versions of these make small money on account of the high tax and auto one's even less, so it might be an option to buy a donor vehicle for the engine and get an approximate quote for the work needed from your regular garage and recovery costs.

Where is the Sorento located now? what part of the country?

Below are a couple of options just to give you an idea but if if you do decide to save it, bring your mechanic to inspect any replacement engine you might buy to make sure it's the correct one and in good order.


https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/kia-sorento/13966471
https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2006-kia-sorento-diesel-jeep/13005162https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/2006-kia-sorento-diesel-jeep/13005162

porsche boy

These engines go with alarming regularity. Sourcing an engine is an incredibly difficult task, I tried before.

imp1

I had a similar situation in early December, engine gone on an 06 Primastar with 350k on the clock. I got an engine supplied and fitted (150k) with a radiator for €1250 inc vat, and a 3 month warranty, which gives you an idea of real world costs - no idea if the Sorrento engine would be any more expensive than a Primastar.

rex-x

colm_mcm wrote: »

It's a bad state of affairs if they can't get an engine but they think you can.

To be fair I wouldn't supply a second hand engine to a customer either, new or recon I will supply and fit but very few reputable garages will offer to source second hand.
You are on the hook if something goes wrong with it and although many of the lads I know will take it on your word and give you a replacement engine, you end up doing the job twice for no extra cash.... No way it's just not good business sense

iwillhtfu

Cut your loses and pick up another jeep for towing. I've grand 01 patrol there that would tow your kia and trailer together and I picked it up for the same cost of your labour only quote.

I didn't notice any impact on the over 10years insurance from my previous van

bucketybuck

I understand why they don't want to be involved in sourcing second hand engines but that labour price is ridiculous for an engine swap. You could see it for a rebuild, but to simply swap in a replacement, no way thats a fair price.

I would agree that its a scare price, they don't actually want the job and I can see why for a few reasons. My advise would be to pay the 100/200 it would cost to get the vehicle lifted and brought home, get your local mechanic to check it out and see if you can get the same job done for much cheaper.

dieselbug

The price quoted includes fitting the engine but also consumables as I understand it.

This includes a new dmf clutch kit, oil, filters, belts etc so not as wide of the mark as you might think.

Ah_Yeah

dieselbug wrote: »

If the car is good and the mileage is low it may be worth saving. The divil you know and all that.
You will find that passenger versions of these make small money on account of the high tax and auto one's even less, so it might be an option to buy a donor vehicle for the engine and get an approximate quote for the work needed from your regular garage and recovery costs.

Where is the Sorento located now? what part of the country?

Below are a couple of options just to give you an idea but if if you do decide to save it, bring your mechanic to inspect any replacement engine you might buy to make sure it's the correct one and in good order.

[/url]

The car is in Laois, by the time I would have paid a mechanic to come with me to source a car, transported it and broke it for the parts I'd say I'd have made a loss. I have reached out to IVI Engines to see if they can get one for me. But agree on better the devil you know!

porsche boy wrote: »

These engines go with alarming regularity. Sourcing an engine is an incredibly difficult task, I tried before.

Yes lots of Sorento horror stories coming to the fore since I had my own engine trouble! Mine is the black cover which apparently is harder to come across too.

imp1 wrote: »

I had a similar situation in early December, engine gone on an 06 Primastar with 350k on the clock. I got an engine supplied and fitted (150k) with a radiator for €1250 inc vat, and a 3 month warranty, which gives you an idea of real world costs - no idea if the Sorrento engine would be any more expensive than a Primastar.

They said I am looking at 600-1k for an engine alone but the labour/consumables is what is the most expensive so am trying to shop around for quotes.

rex-x wrote: »

To be fair I wouldn't supply a second hand engine to a customer either, new or recon I will supply and fit but very few reputable garages will offer to source second hand.
You are on the hook if something goes wrong with it and although many of the lads I know will take it on your word and give you a replacement engine, you end up doing the job twice for no extra cash.... No way it's just not good business sense

I see where you are coming from and understand the garage's position. However from a customer's perspective this also makes it too easy to write any future issues off as being the engine at fault rather than any work the garage did - especially if the customer doesn't know much about cars! So I am in a pickle.

iwillhtfu wrote: »

I didn't notice any impact on the over 10years insurance from my previous van

Funnily enough neither did I - all the insurance quotes are astronomical regardless of the year

bucketybuck wrote: »

I would agree that its a scare price, they don't actually want the job and I can see why for a few reasons. My advise would be to pay the 100/200 it would cost to get the vehicle lifted and brought home, get your local mechanic to check it out and see if you can get the same job done for much cheaper.

Thanks, I am calling a few garages tomorrow to get some quotes and if there are more reasonable offers near me then I will organise to get it towed back here.

dieselbug wrote: »

The price quoted includes fitting the engine but also consumables as I understand it.

This includes a new dmf clutch kit, oil, filters, belts etc so not as wide of the mark as you might think.

Yes it does - even if it is close to the mark it is too much considering what the vehicle is worth so if I couldn't get a better price from another garage I would look to scrap.

dieselbug

"Yes lots of Sorento horror stories coming to the fore since I had my own engine trouble! Mine is the black cover which apparently is harder to come across too."

2006 was a change year, facelift model. The older engine had the older wastegate type turbocharger and 138bhp whereas the later one had variable vein turbo and is 170bhp. I think the later one had the rad header tank out near the rad and the older one had it mounted on the bulkhead.

If you PM me the reg I can check which engine is fitted.

Ah_Yeah

dieselbug wrote: »

"Yes lots of Sorento horror stories coming to the fore since I had my own engine trouble! Mine is the black cover which apparently is harder to come across too."

2006 was a change year, facelift model. The older engine had the older wastegate type turbocharger and 138bhp whereas the later one had variable vein turbo and is 170bhp. I think the later one had the rad header tank out near the rad and the older one had it mounted on the bulkhead.

If you PM me the reg I can check which engine is fitted.

Pm sent, thanks

George Dalton

bucketybuck wrote: »

I understand why they don't want to be involved in sourcing second hand engines but that labour price is ridiculous for an engine swap. You could see it for a rebuild, but to simply swap in a replacement, no way thats a fair price.

I would agree that its a scare price, they don't actually want the job and I can see why for a few reasons. My advise would be to pay the 100/200 it would cost to get the vehicle lifted and brought home, get your local mechanic to check it out and see if you can get the same job done for much cheaper.

This car is in our place as it happens.

The €1800 quote is not just labour for fitting an engine. It also includes a full service, air con service and new clutch and DMF so effectively is a worst case scenario quote including the following:

Oil filter
Oil
Air filter
Fuel filter
Cabin filter
Brake fluid
4 part clutch and flywheel kit (€760 on its own)
Air con service
Any other sundries that may be needed such as coolant, power steering fluid, nuts, bolts, hose clips, cable ties, parts cleaner, sealant etc etc.
15 hours labour (including labour time already spent for diagnosis of the engine issue and also a full inspection of the vehicle which we have carried out to see if it needed any other work in the short to medium term, this was in order for the owner to make an informed decision as to whether the vehicle is worth repairing)

As the OP said, we checked our local breakers (who we know and trust) to see if any of them had a secondhand engine. They don't, so we aren't willing to go any further than that to source a secondhand engine. That is our policy and there are good reasons for it.

Ah_Yeah

George Dalton wrote: »

This car is in our place as it happens.

The €1800 quote is not just labour for fitting an engine. It also includes a full service, air con service and new clutch and DMF so effectively is a worst case scenario quote including the following:

Oil filter
Oil
Air filter
Fuel filter
Cabin filter
Brake fluid
4 part clutch and flywheel kit (€760 on its own)
Air con service
Any other sundries that may be needed such as coolant, power steering fluid, nuts, bolts, hose clips, cable ties, parts cleaner, sealant etc etc.
15 hours labour (including labour time already spent for diagnosis of the engine issue and also a full inspection of the vehicle which we have carried out to see if it needed any other work in the short to medium term, this was in order for the owner to make an informed decision as to whether the vehicle is worth repairing)

As the OP said, we checked our local breakers (who we know and trust) to see if any of them had a secondhand engine. They don't, so we aren't willing to go any further than that to source a secondhand engine. That is our policy and there are good reasons for it.

Thanks George, I'm not sure if it was yourself or someone else in the garage I have been dealing all along with but I would like to stress that I have always found anyone I have spoken to from your team extremely helpful - also you kindly opened up on Christmas eve so I could get my stuff out of my car before Christmas which was very good of you!

You've explained all the quote better than I could as I didn't understand the details behind it so thanks for that. And I appreciate your position on the engine completely.

It comes down to whether or not I'd be better spent investing that money into a different car or better the devil you know! Thanks again.

George Dalton

Ah_Yeah wrote: »

Thanks George, I'm not sure if it was yourself or someone else in the garage I have been dealing all along with but I would like to stress that I have always found anyone I have spoken to from your team extremely helpful - also you kindly opened up on Christmas eve so I could get my stuff out of my car before Christmas which was very good of you!

You've explained all the quote better than I could as I didn't understand the details behind it so thanks for that. And I appreciate your position on the engine completely.

It comes down to whether or not I'd be better spent investing that money into a different car or better the devil you know! Thanks again.

Tadhg has been dealing with your tale of woe

Ah_Yeah

George Dalton wrote: »

Tadhg has been dealing with your tale of woe

I thought it was Tadhg! He has been very helpful and I appreciate you guys looking after my car over Christmas!

PauloMN

I was going to suggest you bring it to George. Speaking from experience, I'd not have my car anywhere else if it required such work. No connection with Dalton's other than having my own car worked on by them.

As for costs, you always get the "sure that's a rip off" merchants on here.

Ah_Yeah

PauloMN wrote: »

I was going to suggest you bring it to George. Speaking from experience, I'd not have my car anywhere else if it required such work. No connection with Dalton's other than having my own car worked on by them.

As for costs, you always get the "sure that's a rip off" merchants on here.

Thanks, that is why I decided to bring it to them in the first place as they have a fantastic reputation, I know very little about cars and so would never be in a position to decide if something wasn't right on a quote, I can only ask questions. I specifically chose not to mention the garages name as its not my style and they have been very patient with my questions and forthcoming with advice, I have found them great to deal with.

The quote itself makes sense, the purpose of this thread was to decide whether I'd be better off just taking that money and investing in a new(er) car than trying to keep an old one on the road.