Old Age Pension

Jellybaby1

I'm a city woman, so go easy on me please. I have a question on behalf of a farmer relative of mine who said he "can't get the pension". He said that was what he was told, by whom I don't know yet. I haven't spoken to him yet but I'll see him in a couple of weeks and find out, but I am wondering why a farmer would be turned down for the old age pension? Is there anything I can suggest to help him out?

Grueller

Possibly had not paid his prsi over the years?

Sam Kade

Possibly not enough contributions, PRSI,

Farrell

Sam Kade wrote: »

Possibly not enough contributions, PRSI,

Would assets in own name be another reason

alps

If he has not paid enough PRSI over the years as mentioned above, he will only qualify for the non contributory pension. This is means tested, so that his assets are taken into account in this calculation. He will be deemed to be able to cash in say 5% of his assets each year giving him an income. This deemed income is then subtracted from his non contributory pension amount and in many cases it will leave the retiree without a pension payment.

Jellybaby1

Thank you for replying. In reply to you, I didn't think assets would be taken into account because surely everyone, even TD's get the OAP don't they? Maybe the PRSI question might be a possibility but again, I thought everyone got the OAP whether it is contributory or non-contributory which is slightly less.

Edit: Apologies. Just saw alps reply now. Thank you for clarifying. This must be the problem then. I was told he was confused by the whole thing and I wanted to make suggestions but it looks like assets are what's effecting the pension payment then. Thanks everyone, very helpful.

Geuze

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Thank you for replying. In reply to you, I didn't think assets would be taken into account because surely everyone, even TD's get the OAP don't they? Maybe the PRSI question might be a possibility but again, I thought everyone got the OAP whether it is contributory or non-contributory which is slightly less.

No, everybody does not get a State Pension.

I know lots of people over 66 who do not, and will not, receive a State Pension.

Jellybaby1

Geuze wrote: »

No, everybody does not get a State Pension.

I know lots of people over 66 who do not, and will not, receive a State Pension.

Thank you Geuze, I have been corrected. I appreciate the information though.

Sam Kade

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

Thank you for replying. In reply to you, I didn't think assets would be taken into account because surely everyone, even TD's get the OAP don't they? Maybe the PRSI question might be a possibility but again, I thought everyone got the OAP whether it is contributory or non-contributory which is slightly less.

Edit: Apologies. Just saw alps reply now. Thank you for clarifying. This must be the problem then. I was told he was confused by the whole thing and I wanted to make suggestions but it looks like assets are what's effecting the pension payment then. Thanks everyone, very helpful.

You need a certain amonut of years prsi contributions thanks to bruton or what ever her name is 50 years now before that it was only 25 years. Polititcians get pensions no matter what they do.

Jellybaby1

Sam Kade wrote: »

You need a certain amonut of years prsi contributions thanks to bruton or what ever her name is 50 years now before that it was only 25 years. Polititcians get pensions no matter what they do.

That's exactly what I was thinking too!!

Happy New Year to all!

Limestone Cowboy

Need to have started paying prsi at 56 and make a minimum of 260 contributions over 10 years for contributary pension and 520 to get the full contributary pension as far as I know.

rangler1

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I'm a city woman, so go easy on me please. I have a question on behalf of a farmer relative of mine who said he "can't get the pension". He said that was what he was told, by whom I don't know yet. I haven't spoken to him yet but I'll see him in a couple of weeks and find out, but I am wondering why a farmer would be turned down for the old age pension? Is there anything I can suggest to help him out?

It would be unusual not to qualify, has he an accountant, his accountant would've ensured he paid PRSI down the years and would be the best place to get advice

Jellybaby1

rangler1 wrote: »

It would be unusual not to qualify, has he an accountant, his accountant would've ensured he paid PRSI down the years and would be the best place to get advice

I don't really know. I'll need to chat with him about that.

_Brian

rangler1 wrote: »

It would be unusual not to qualify, has he an accountant, his accountant would've ensured he paid PRSI down the years and would be the best place to get advice

Happens a fair bit, particularly older farmers maybe not keeping accounts.

Farmer

Contributary
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/older_and_retired_people/state_pension_contributory.html
Non contributary (means tested)
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/older_and_retired_people/state_pension_non_contributory.html
Means Test
http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/means_test_for_social_welfare_payments/means_test.html




Quote
Income from farming
If you or your spouse, civil partner or cohabitant are getting income from working a farm the yearly value to you is assessed (this is gross income minus expenses). If the land is worked but is not being worked to its potential then an estimate of the potential net yearly value is made.
If you are leasing a farm you own, the rental income is assessed.
If you are not working or leasing a farm the capital value of the land is assessed.

The standard formula for assessing the value of capital for all social welfare payments (except Disability Allowance and Supplementary Welfare Allowance) is:
Capital. Weekly means assessed
First €20,000. Nil
Next €10,000. €1 per €1,000
Next €10,000. €2 per €1,000
Balance. €4 per €1,000

End Quote


Looks like you wouldn't need much land to max out the weekly value of the pension

I'd say there's alot of land not returning anything near €4 per week per €1000 value?

Jellybaby1

Many thanks, Farmer.

paleoperson

It's part of the overall racquet to try to wrestle assets from people in their old age, including ones that have been in the family for generations. Similar to the so-called "fair deal", with the government ending up taking houses from people. People need to fight against it and to watch for what they plan to do before things get even worse.

_Brian wrote: »

Happens a fair bit, particularly older farmers maybe not keeping accounts.

Yeah, so many old farmers spent their whole lives doing honest, decent work, only in their old age to be hamstrung by all these paperwork requirements, some necessary, others pure beurocracy.

Kristopherus

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I don't really know. I'll need to chat with him about that.

You'd better talk to him as a matter of urgency. If it turns out that he qualifies, he's already over 66 and the arrears due to him are diminishing the longer he leaves it to reapply.

Base price

Reading this post with interest.
My late Uncle's neighbour qualified for the OAP a few years ago. He is a single man farming 50 odd acres with 20 excellent sucklers and followers. He lives with his younger (single) brother who is in receipt of a long term disability payment. He never has and doesn't claim carers benefit or any other benefits. He has never made any "return" to the Revenue nor has he ever received any written communication from Revenue. He is in receipt of SFP and has applied and accepted for GLAS. Previously he was a recipient for REPS payments.
The only reason that I know this is because he recently asked me and OH to recommend an Accountant and Solicitor as he wanted to sort out his affairs.

rangler1

Base price wrote: »

Reading this post with interest.
My late Uncle's neighbour qualified for the OAP a few years ago. He is a single man farming 50 odd acres with 20 excellent sucklers and followers. He lives with his younger (single) brother who is in receipt of a long term disability payment. He never has and doesn't claim carers benefit or any other benefits. He has never made any "return" to the Revenue nor has he ever received any written communication from Revenue. He is in receipt of SFP and has applied and accepted for GLAS. Previously he was a recipient for REPS payments.
The only reason that I know this is because he recently asked me and OH to recommend an Accountant and Solicitor as he wanted to sort out his affairs.

He is obliged to do a tax return every year himself even if they don't contact him.
It'll probably cost him a lot of money now to settle his affairs even if he has proper accounts and receipts for the last 50 years...

Jellybaby1

I've discovered he has an accountant and his accounts are done every year, and he has actually been told now that he can get the non-contributory pension, but he's not 65 yet so he has to wait a bit longer. Well, that's cleared it up a bit thankfully. I don't think he was ever advised to keep up his PRSI which is a pity. I was and am not fully aware of all the minute details but at least he can get the non-contrib eventually.

Baseprice, that's awful that that man hasn't made any claims yet. My brother in the UK was told what he should apply for, but here, if you don't gen up on this stuff and don't know what to do, then you lose out. They would rather you don't know anything or apply for anything, and they make it complicated. :mad:

_Brian

Jellybaby1 wrote: »

I've discovered he has an accountant and his accounts are done every year, and he has actually been told now that he can get the non-contributory pension, but he's not 65 yet so he has to wait a bit longer. Well, that's cleared it up a bit thankfully. I don't think he was ever advised to keep up his PRSI which is a pity. I was and am not fully aware of all the minute details but at least he can get the non-contrib eventually.

Baseprice, that's awful that that man hasn't made any claims yet. My brother in the UK was told what he should apply for, but here, if you don't gen up on this stuff and don't know what to do, then you lose out. They would rather you don't know anything or apply for anything, and they make it complicated. :mad:

There's no pension till 66 now. FG removed the interm pension that was available between 65 & 66. One of the really mean changes introduced in recent years.

Jellybaby1

_Brian wrote: »

There's no pension till 66 now. FG removed the interm pension that was available between 65 & 66. One of the really mean changes introduced in recent years.

Yes, I meant 66, but he hasn't reached 65 yet either, he's just trying to work things out as early as possible for himself. I felt so sorry for him.

Bass Reeves

_Brian wrote: »

There's no pension till 66 now. FG removed the interm pension that was available between 65 & 66. One of the really mean changes introduced in recent years.

It is incorrect to say that FG got rid of the preretirement pension. It was part of the agreement with the Trioka which will see the OAP age increases to 68 years of age by 2028. IMO we will see changes that may increase this sooner and to a higher age. People live longer now the average person that is alive at 65 will live to 83/84. I know that is the average but it give you an idea that people retiring at 66 will be on the pension for nearly 20 years. Because of this people will have to work until later in life this on an issue in physically demanding work but it is a reality.

What this reallty means is that people that want to retire earlier will have to start making provision for that retirement. It is interesting to see here an attitude to considering the OAP as a entitlement even though people may not have made PRSi contributions to avail of the contributory OAP. It is right that the non contributory pension should be means tested. In fairness farmers are treated very lax on this regard and find it easier than most to qualify within the means .test. A farmer often can qualify and geta supplement for his dependents while a ordinary worker who has maybe a supplement to his pension of his spouse had not worked will not qualify.

Pensions and means testing are not biased against farmers by any means and farmers have the option of handing on there assets to the next generation to avail of non contributory pension. In reality as well farmers have had the opportunity to pay a minimum! contribution to avail of the old age pension and then pay a Voluntary Cobtribution to qualify for a full pension. 520 is the minimum number of contributions to avail of a partial pension. However many choose to not pay thee minimum contributions and because of this have to opt for means tested payments.