Money cut due to savings?! Please help

fussyonion

Posting on behalf of my uncle who is very confused.

I apologise for the length of this but I'll try and explain as best I can.

He was made redundant in February and got €30,000 redundancy.

He put €20,000 of it in a special savings account which is "locked" for a year; with no access to it. If, after the year, he still doesn't want access to it, it's locked again for another.

Anyway, he has about €10,000 in his current account.

He has actively been seeking employment since February; no luck yet but this could be because he's in his late fifties.

Anyway, he was receiving Jobseeker's Benefit up until last month when the Social Welfare said he would be moved onto Jobseeker's Allowance a nd in order for him to be moved onto Jobseeker's Allowance, Social Welfare requested info from him: bank statements and his wife's payslips from her job.

We did research on welfare's website and it said they don't means test the first 20k savings, but for every 1k you have after that, they deduct €1 per 1k.

So we're talking €10 then, yeah?
Because he has €10k. (They don't take the 20k into account).

Anyway, he submitted the bank statements & wife's payslips and they wrote back to him saying his allowance of €188 would be cut to €87.

We're all baffled as to how they came up with this figure.

They said they didn't means test the first 20k.

They means tested his 10k and his wife's weekly salary of €350.

Can someone explain how he's been cut so much?

He has worked his whole life, is a very hard working and proud man and this is upsetting him as he can't get his head round it all.

He doesn't have any other savings/investments/property and neither does his wife.
They have a council home, so no property/mortgage.

If anyone is able to shed some light on this, you'd be really helping us out.

Thank you.

Stheno

His wifes income is part of the meams test?

fussyonion

Stheno wrote: »

His wifes income is part of the meams test?

Yes.

Stheno

fussyonion wrote: »

Yes.

Well that might explain why his payment is reduced?

fussyonion

Stheno wrote: »

Well that might explain why his payment is reduced?

But by €100? She takes home €350.

Sorry, I don't mean to come across thick.

It's just that their daughter lives at home too, she works, yet Social Welfare are not means testing her money.

She works four days. My uncle's wife works four days.

dresden8

Run your numbers through here, section 2 spouses income.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Means-Assessment.aspx#sect3

If you're not happy appeal. They will run the numbers again.

Is the daughter older than mid 20s? If she is they might not be taking parents income into account. It's a long time since I that that sh1t I don't remember the specifics.

fussyonion

dresden8 wrote: »

Run your numbers through here, section 2 spouses income.

http://www.welfare.ie/en/Pages/Means-Assessment.aspx#sect3

If you're not happy appeal. They will run the numbers again.

Is the daughter older than mid 20s? If she is they might not be taking parents income into account. It's a long time since I that that sh1t I don't remember the specifics.

Thanks for that, really appreciate it.
Yes the daughter is 28.
I'll check your link out now.

TJJP

See here too:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/jobseekers_benefit.html

> If you are aged under 55 and get a redundancy payment of more than €50,000 you are disqualified from claiming Jobseeker's Benefit.

So the 10k / 30K shouldn't count for JB.

But:

>Duration of Jobseeker's Benefit

>Jobseeker's Benefit is paid for 9 months (234 days) for people with 260 or more PRSI contributions paid. It is paid for 6 months (156 days) for people with fewer than 260 PRSI contributions paid.

So that may explain the move from JB to JA (depending on the particular circumstances).

In the means test for Jobseeker’s Allowance household income is assessed.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/means_test_for_social_welfare_payments/means_test_for_jobseekers_allowance.html

I'd be surprised if the redundancy payment was the issue? I'd have thought it was exempt, but I'm no expert, so worth checking with DSP or Citizens Advice?

dresden8

Agreed, if still confused go to citizens information with spouse's payslips. They really are very good.

infogiver

The daughter living with them has no effect on your uncles JSA entitlement, so forget about her.
Now look at the wife's earnings.
You can look at the GROSS pay (before deductions) and you can only deduct PRSI, pension, and union
You can't deduct PAYE or USC.
So you have to add the PAYE and USC back onto the take home pay.
So for pig iron we'll say the figure is €370.
Plus €10 from the savings.
So, €380 is the income per week.
You say that she works 4 days per week.
Ok , so SW allow €20 per day up to a maximum of 3 days so you can deduct €60 from the €380 . So, €320.
Then they will only consider 60% of the €320 so, €192 is considered means.
Ok?
So SW look at what they would give him if he claimed for himself and her as his dependent if she WASNT working at all.
That would be €188 +€124=€312.
And they deduct the means, €192,from the €312.
This leaves a figure of €120 a week JSA for your uncle
The fact that he's only getting €87 means that either the wife's income over a period is actually more then €350.
Or they have more savings then 30000.
Or less likely, SW have made a mistake.
If your uncle can show that they actually have less income and savings then SW say they have then go ahead and appeal it.

infogiver

TJJP wrote: »

See here too:

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/social_welfare_payments/unemployed_people/jobseekers_benefit.html

> If you are aged under 55 and get a redundancy payment of more than €50,000 you are disqualified from claiming Jobseeker's Benefit.

So the 10k / 30K shouldn't count for JB.

But:

>Duration of Jobseeker's Benefit

>Jobseeker's Benefit is paid for 9 months (234 days) for people with 260 or more PRSI contributions paid. It is paid for 6 months (156 days) for people with fewer than 260 PRSI contributions paid.

So that may explain the move from JB to JA (depending on the particular circumstances).

In the means test for Jobseeker’s Allowance household income is assessed.

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/social_welfare/irish_social_welfare_system/means_test_for_social_welfare_payments/means_test_for_jobseekers_allowance.html

I'd be surprised if the redundancy payment was the issue? I'd have thought it was exempt, but I'm no expert, so worth checking with DSP or Citizens Advice?

The uncles JSB entitlement has run out and he's now being means tested for JSA against his wife's wages and their savings and any other income.
His redundancy payment is not excluded from the means test.

mickdw

He was a bit green to think he would get full dole with a wife earning a reasonable wage.

infogiver

mickdw wrote: »

He was a bit green to think he would get full dole with a wife earning a reasonable wage.

When your made redundant it's very important that you go and get proper advice about your entitlements as soon as possible so these developments don't come as a shock.
People who have worked for years and never had a claim my have preconceived ideas about how long or how much their entitlements will be.

infogiver

Also wanted to add that if he has a council house then he must notify them that his circumstances have reduced and show them the letter from SW and his rent will be reduced,
They'll probably also now be entitled to at the very least a GP visit card if the apply for a medical card.

mickdw

infogiver wrote: »

When your made redundant it's very important that you go and get proper advice about your entitlements as soon as possible so these developments don't come as a shock.
People who have worked for years and never had a claim my have preconceived ideas about how long or how much their entitlements will be.

Absolutely. The life time welfare people know it inside out but a man who worked all his life has no clue.