My 1st deer hunting rifle, What caliber?

Free-2-Flow

Hi,

I've had a .22 rifle and a shotgun since I was 18, now at 30 I'm taking the steps to do what I've wanted to do since day 1, hunt deer.
I've been looking at a few caliber of rifle and I've decided on either a .243 or 6.5x55.
Would it be easier to justify a .243 than a 6.5? Is a .243 justified for shooting fox? Because I've permission to do that.
I've no deer hunting licence as of yet and maybe a 6.5 would require one?
Just trying to find the path of least resistance with regards to the Gardai.
I'll obviously be getting a deer hunting licence as soon as I find a willing land owner to grant me permission but actually having the rifle in my possession would be a big plus.

Cass

A 243 and 6.5 would be the exact same in terms of ease of licensing and appropriateness. ~IOW neither one is easier to license than the other.

Also if you ant to shoot foxes you can do so with either once you get the deer license with it.

So now it's a case of which you prefer. In terms of calibre both are a good flat shooting round out to 300 yards. Ammo is about the same price per box, and you can get either calibre in a mulititude of rifle designs.

So you need to go out and take a look and see what is there. If it's only hunting then look towards a lighter set up. You don't need a heavy barrel that can do range work all day but you also don't want some pencil barrel that heats up with the first shot.

Look towards a medium profile barrel rifle with standard hunting stock. Your Sako A7, Tikka T3, Reminton 700s would all be perfect.

gunny123

Don't pass by a .308 if you see one at the right price. Great selection of ammunition for them, no more or less difficult to licence than the other two you mention. The round is short which makes the action short and neater.

Free-2-Flow

Cass wrote:

Look towards a medium profile barrel rifle with standard hunting stock. Your Sako A7, Tikka T3, Reminton 700s would all be perfect.

My brother currently has a deposit on a T3 6.5, beautiful rifle, I love the Rem 700, now its just a case of securing permission to shoot in order to obtain a licence which I'm finding quite difficult.

Free-2-Flow

Cass, A few years ago I asked my firearms officer in my local station what he thought about me getting a large caliber like a .308 when I was getting my European firearms pass for my .22 and his reply was, and I quote "Are they the rifles with the bolt thingy?"
No word of a lie.

Cass

You can't cure stupid. Just smile, drop off your application, and walk slowly backwards out the door.

It's why we have to know more than the Gardaí. We essentially process our own licenses and just need them to stamp it.

deerhunter1

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

Hi,

I've had a .22 rifle and a shotgun since I was 18, now at 30 I'm taking the steps to do what I've wanted to do since day 1, hunt deer.
I've been looking at a few caliber of rifle and I've decided on either a .243 or 6.5x55.
Would it be easier to justify a .243 than a 6.5? Is a .243 justified for shooting fox? Because I've permission to do that.
I've no deer hunting licence as of yet and maybe a 6.5 would require one?
Just trying to find the path of least resistance with regards to the Gardai.
I'll obviously be getting a deer hunting licence as soon as I find a willing land owner to grant me permission but actually having the rifle in my possession would be a big plus.

308

Free-2-Flow

Cass wrote:

You can't cure stupid. Just smile, drop off your application, and walk slowly backwards out the door.

Cass wrote:

It's why we have to know more than the Gardaí. We essentially process our own licenses and just need them to stamp it.

Ain't that the truth

Free-2-Flow

deerhunter1 wrote:

308

Case of bigger the better?

Tommyaya4

The way the licenceing is gone if it's a deer caliber you will need to have a deer licence id worry about sorting out your permissions before worrying about caliber

gunny123

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

Case of bigger the better?

No , that would be .30-06 or .300 win mag. The .308 is a more versatile round, a much larger selection of bullet weights than the .243 or .270. I think i am correct in saying its the most popular hunting round in the usa currently, great for anything from foxes to deer to wild boar if you go abroad.

I had a sako .308 and loved it, it was an old one made in the 1960's. Everything i fed it from 110 grains to 190 grains went into the one ragged hole. It didn't kick nearly as hard as the remmy .270 i had. Thinking back it was probably the ideal rifle for hunting in ireland.

Pkiernan

If only the one rifle I'd get a 308.
Then you'll have no issues hunting across Europe for other game.
Plus it's a really great round.

clivej

Before deciding on a calibre to buy do like I did.

Go into your local dealer and see what he has in ammo. I picked a 308 because my dealer has the most of that type in stock when compared to the other calibres on the shelf, as did other dealers.

When you have your calibre decided on then go and try as many rifles as you can. Pick them up, shoulder them feel them over. Some/most of the Remington's will need a trigger change out.

My choice of makes would be...
Tikka
Sako (my .308 rifle)
CZ 550 a great starter rifle IMO, I shot my first deer with one in 6.5x55

And I always go for the heavy'er barrels on all my rifles.
If like me after a while you may well get into a bit of target shooting on a range or even competition shooting. Then that bigger barrel will stand to you.
I won the 'Sporting Rifle' competition in the UK this year. 100 yards 5 shots in 30 seconds off sticks standing, repeated twice, warms up a barrel in quick order.

arrowloopboy

Tikka T3 .270(cut to 19")plus Hausken (very important) ,sorted .
Or a Sako or Blaser if budget is available .

FISMA.

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

I've been looking at a few caliber of rifle and I've decided on either a .243 or 6.5x55.

+1 for what CliveJ said. My advice exactly.

I can't imagine the local dealer carrying much 6.5.

243 would be a grand choice for someone looking for a crossover round between deer and foxes.

For a rifle dedicated to deer or putting holes in paper, I would go with the 308. Too well supported in Eire.

As for the path of least resistance, get what you want and don't worry about the paperwork.

Free-2-Flow

clivej wrote:

And I always go for the heavy'er barrels on all my rifles. If like me after a while you may well get into a bit of target shooting on a range or even competition shooting. Then that bigger barrel will stand to you. I won the 'Sporting Rifle' competition in the UK this year. 100 yards 5 shots in 30 seconds off sticks standing, repeated twice, warms up a barrel in quick order.

I've been target shooting with my .22 Anschutz around Europe for 10 years, been to Bisley a few times too, Time to go bigger.

Free-2-Flow

clivej wrote:

My choice of makes would be... Tikka Sako (my .308 rifle) CZ 550 a great starter rifle IMO, I shot my first deer with one in 6.5x55

I went into my local dealer, too many to choose from haha, he has a Tikka T3 6.5, CZ 550, Ruger 308, Rem 700 .243

arrowloopboy

You need to choose the rifle and calibre you want first ,but don't stick to your local dealer ,with the slight upturn in the economy ,a lot of guys I know traded up in the past year or 2 so I presume its widespread, and hence theirs lots of good 2nd hand stuff on the market ,you should pick up a nice Tikka T3 for 600/700 odd quid ,great rifle for that kind of money .

arrowloopboy

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

I've been target shooting with my .22 Anschutz around Europe for 10 years, been to Bisley a few times too, Time to go bigger.

Well done Clive ,have you pictures of your winning groups ,love to see them:cool:

arrowloopboy

Pkiernan wrote: »

If only the one rifle I'd get a 308.
Then you'll have no issues hunting across Europe for other game.
Plus it's a really great round.

EXCEPT in FRANCE ,friend of mine bought a beautifull grade 8 Blaser Attache only to find out a civilian can't shoot a .308 in France ,because the military use a .308 / 7.62mm :eek::D:D:D

Free-2-Flow

arrowloopboy wrote:

Well done Clive ,have you pictures of your winning groups ,love to see them

?? Me or Clive?

clivej

arrowloopboy wrote: »

Well done Clive ,have you pictures of your winning groups ,love to see them:cool:

Never got to see the targets for a photo (only to shoot at them). Here is the score card 147/150 so I dropped 3. Only 2 points separated 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.

Competition details are.
100y 5 shots standing off sticks in 30 seconds shot twice.
200y 10 shots standing off sticks in 12 minutes, each shot is scored and marked so takes longer.
300y 10 shots prone in 12 minutes, each shot is scored and marked so takes longer.

clivej

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

I've been target shooting with my .22 Anschutz around Europe for 10 years, been to Bisley a few times too, Time to go bigger.

Then it's also time to think about the rifle as well. Plenty of shooting to do in Bisley with a hunting rifle. :)

cookimonster

arrowloopboy wrote: »

EXCEPT in FRANCE ,friend of mine bought a beautifull grade 8 Blaser Attache only to find out a civilian can't shoot a .308 in France ,because the military use a .308 / 7.62mm :eek::D:D:D

I'm almost certain that's changed in the last few years, the 30-06 and 308 are now acceptable.
I'll try and dig up the article I read it in.

Free-2-Flow

clivej wrote:

Then it's also time to think about the rifle as well. Plenty of shooting to do in Bisley with a hunting rifle.

Just need to secure land now, I'm in a .22 club and cannot get a large caliber licence with my club details, It would mean joining the Midlands aswell which my wife would most likely divorce me for spending all my money on Guns haha

clivej

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

Just need to secure land now, I'm in a .22 club and cannot get a large caliber licence with my club details, It would mean joining the Midlands aswell which my wife would most likely divorce me for spending all my money on Guns haha

What part of the country are you in... Plenty more ranges for shooting rifles than the Midlands.

Cass

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

.......... It would mean joining the Midlands aswell which my wife would most likely divorce me ............

Just on that point.

Joining a range that caters for centrefire will most likely get you the calibre you want, but only for target shooting. It will not be a "backdoor" into hunting without having to get the necessary land details or licenses.

If you tick target shooting on the form you need range details, but if you tick hunting as well you need to supply deer licenses, land details, etc. Tick hunting without these or don't tick it and think you can go hunting means you might fall foul of the local Super.

It's why i tick hunting and target shooting for most every firearm i have. You apply for the reason you want the gun.

Just a heads up, not lecturing.

Clivej wrote:

Plenty more ranges for shooting rifles than the Midlands

There are only a few around the country that are centrefire rated, and the midlands is the only one that goes to long ranges.

Free-2-Flow

clivej wrote:

What part of the country are you in... Plenty more ranges for shooting rifles than the Midlands.

Cass wrote:

There are only a few around the country that are centrefire rated, and the midlands is the only one that goes to long ranges.

I am currently in Dublin Rifle Club in the Kilbride area, don't know of any centrefire clubs other than Midlands, maybe hilltop also

clivej

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

I am currently in Dublin Rifle Club in the Kilbride area, don't know of any centrefire clubs other than Midlands, maybe hilltop also

Harbour House is not that far away from you. Near Nurney in Kildare.

lawred2

Is shooting foxes a thing? Why would anyone want to do that?

gunny123

lawred2 wrote: »

Is shooting foxes a thing? Why would anyone want to do that?

To stop them killing lambs/poultry/gamebirds i suppose. Farmers and gamekeepers are funny that way.

arrowloopboy

You could always go the HCAP route and look for a cheapo lease to get in on ,your going to have your work cut out for ya getting a free permission unless you know someone .

arrowloopboy

cookimonster wrote: »

I'm almost certain that's changed in the last few years, the 30-06 and 308 are now acceptable.
I'll try and dig up the article I read it in.

I think he intended to shoot boar in France with it this year and was refused .

Free-2-Flow

arrowloopboy wrote:

You could always go the HCAP route and look for a cheapo lease to get in on ,your going to have your work cut out for ya getting a free permission unless you know someone .

arrowloopboy wrote:

You could always go the HCAP route and look for a cheapo lease to get in on ,your going to have your work cut out for ya getting a free permission unless you know someone .

Any lot of money to shoot 1 or 2 deer a year, Course is expensive enough.

cookimonster

If you don't get the chance to tag along with a experienced stalker then the HCAP course is a very poor secound choice, but it is better the no knowledge at all.

cookimonster

arrowloopboy wrote: »

I think he intended to shoot boar in France with it this year and was refused .

Taken from the link below, I did find the link to the French legislation but it's 'ala francaise' and beyound culinary French I'm stuffed with the language.

In September of 2013, the French adopted a four-category weapon classification model recommended by the EU, that is a great simplification of the previous eight-category model.This simplification has in itself been a matter for celebration by Frenchmen.
...........Interestingly, the French have been quite supportive of the EU legal model because it enables them to get access to military chamberings and represents a significant simplification of their previous licensing model.


Read more at http://www.sportingshootermag.com.au/news/the-loose-cannon-french-firearms-laws#PyImVYXlzlUblkPT.99

Free-2-Flow

cookimonster wrote:

If you don't get the chance to tag along with a experienced stalker then the HCAP course is a very poor secound choice, but it is better the no knowledge at all.

I seen someone mentioned somewhere about a book and DVD on deer hunting? Supposed to be really good, do you know anything about it? Don't fancy coughing up 180 for coillte, seem to be mainly interested in money.

Free-2-Flow

So I've put a deposit on a Rifle, A Ruger M77 MK2 .308 Win.
Hope I made the right decision.

clivej

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

So I've put a deposit on a Rifle, A Ruger M77 MK2 .308 Win.
Hope I made the right decision.

http://www.shootinguk.co.uk/reviews/rifle/ruger-m77-mk2-rifle-review

clivej

Get this book, the best £15 you will ever spend on deer hunting. BETTER than the HCAP sh!te.

You can download each section but far better to get the loose leaf book.
http://www.bestpracticeguides.org.uk/


And here is the form to submit along with £15
http://www.bestpracticeguides.org.uk/sites/default/files/Subscription%20Form.pdf

Free-2-Flow

clivej wrote:

Get this book, the best £15 you will ever spend on deer hunting. BETTER than the HCAP sh!te.

Seems like a solid rifle right?

cookimonster

clivej wrote: »

Get this book, the best £15 you will ever spend.........You can download each section but far better to get the loose leaf book.
http://www.bestpracticeguides.org.uk/sites/default/files/Subscription%20Form.pdf

+1 on this guide, excellent publication, I downloaded it myself, very informative.

Free-2-Flow

cookimonster wrote:

+1 on this guide, excellent publication, I downloaded it myself, very informative.

Not sure I understand the Web page, is it all one book or many editions?

clivej

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

Not sure I understand the Web page, is it all one book or many editions?

You can click on each link on the left to read the page.

Or you can go to the 'Support' page and download each section. Print it all off then.

BUT far better to buy the complete book at £15 and read at your leisure.

cookimonster

http://www.thedeerinitiative.co.uk/best_practice/

Go to the link above, click the headings in the left handside, this will redirect to another page and menu each section is download-able in PDF form.

Obviously ignore non 'native' species, seasons and legislation pertaining to firearms, wildlife and food safety. For that you'll need to do research from NPWS, the Wildlife Act, Garda.ie etc. Sites like Wild Deer Association of Ireland, http://www.wilddeerireland.com/ are good source a of information.

If your going to wait until next season then along with permission and rifle / scope start looking at the following essential bits of kit-

Refrigerator - if it's Sika or Fallow then the standard coke fridge will do, if it's Reds, well that's a different story. Then think long term storage - freezer, a good Sika stag gralloched minus hoof and head can be around 40-45kg in weight. Skinned and boned out your talking approximately 25-30kg of venison.
Now that storgage is out of the way let's work backwards-
Location to butcher (an easy going partner won't mind the kitchen table), butcher knives (easy got)
Suitable transport with game tray ( half barrels, deep wide storage box etc)
Knife for field use (endless list, but I use Moras)
Drag rope - anything you find comfortable
Shooting Sticks - not an absolute, but handy and it's all about the best shot. I use home made quads for open fields but carry adjustable tripods for forest stalking.
Binos - how much do you want to spend. Essential piece of kit.
Comfortable clothes / footwear - depends on your stalking - open hill at range I'm not to worried about noise, I want warmth and waterproofing but in the wood close in I'm looking for quite fabrics.

I'm not implying that you rush out and buy everything but these are just some of the things that will make your stalking better alround from start to finish. You will, with experience, add to and leave out bits of kit as you see fit. There are plenty of items not mentioned such as hygiene kits, first aid, coms, range finders, lights, gun accessories. Some guys are bare bones stalkers others love to be kit heavy each to their own. But most of all get that land permission.

cookimonster

clivej wrote: »

You can click on each link on the lef........

Clivej got in there first while I was waffling...

gunny123

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

So I've put a deposit on a Rifle, A Ruger M77 MK2 .308 Win.
Hope I made the right decision.

I have had a few ruger firearms over the years, a pistol, a revolver, and a centrefire rifle, never had a problem with any of them. All solidly built. Some of the newer rifles like the american series are a bit built down to a price, but the m77 should be fine.

Pkiernan

arrowloopboy wrote: »

EXCEPT in FRANCE ,friend of mine bought a beautifull grade 8 Blaser Attache only to find out a civilian can't shoot a .308 in France ,because the military use a .308 / 7.62mm :eek::D:D:D

Wow - I didn't know that.

Kat1170

Free-2-Flow wrote: »

Just need to secure land now, I'm in a .22 club and cannot get a large caliber licence with my club details, It would mean joining the Midlands aswell which my wife would most likely divorce me for spending all my money on Guns haha

One of the best gifts I have received in quite a number of years is a butchers hacksaw. Helps make butchering a deer child's play.