public services card

cold hands

People are receiving letters with notification for an appointment for this card. In first paragraph it informs you that you can change time / date if it doesn't suit you leaving no hope to cancel an appointment if you don't want to have one.
It then explains how it 'helps protect you against identity theft' in a similar way where an organised crime extorts money from small business guys 'protecting' their stores from 'bad guys'.
What if I don't care that much of being protected by government bodies and agencies?
What if I want to be left alone and not be interfered with?
What if I don't care that this card already assists with access to state services?
I have a passport confirms that me is really me. Is this not enough? Also, it is mentioned that one should bring mobile phone along with other relevant documents. Am I paranoid or is this going really far into our privacy?
What are other thoughts in that matter?

Clonmel1000

Paranoid...

Overheal

Not a CT. Moved to AH.

Widdershins

Why do you have to bring your mobile phone?

riclad

This card is normally given to someone on welfare or a pension.
it,s more secure , it has a photograph on it,
its a photo id.
IT Reduces fraud as say some one finds your id they cant, use it
as it has you photo face on the front .
It,s not practical to expect everyone to carry a passport every time they go to the post office .
theres a good reason it exists .
People from certain countrys were giving thier cards to a friend to
collect welfare in ireland while they worked in another country .
EG the old welfare cards had no photo id of the user on them.
you wont to be left alone Great .
then perhaps do not apply for money from the welfare system.
Every modern welfare system needs new antifraud measures in the age when
anyone can make up id documents on a pc and email accounts are constantly being
hacked into .
do you care if some one steals your id and takes money from your welfare or your bank account?
Its not practical for most people to just use cash and not use the banking system at
all as part of a normal life.
TO acess the banking system you,ll need id and certain documents to prove your identity .

cbreeze

As far as I can remember when you are at your appointment they send you a code to the phone. I don't know what would happen if you did not own a mobile.

The Specialist

I got the letters and ignored both of them. If i want one of these, I will decide when and where I will go for one. Welfare have some neck setting up random appointments and bothering people in the first place.

punisher5112

If one has free travel then they need to go or they will not be able to travel for free no more eventually when it's fully implemented.

riclad

Maybe they are bringing in photo id on travel cards ,
as theres some fraud ,as people can use stolen cards to travel for free ,
travel cards are not just used by old age pensioners .

Atari Jaguar

Just go get the card and stop whinging

my3cents

punisher5112 wrote: »

If one has free travel then they need to go or they will not be able to travel for free no more eventually when it's fully implemented.

I thought the old paper travel cards came to an end this year?

punisher5112

riclad wrote: »

Maybe they are bringing in photo id on travel cards ,
as theres some fraud ,as people can use stolen cards to travel for free ,
travel cards are not just used by old age pensioners .

They are its being in the process quite some time.

Funny thing many are damaging the cards and getting replacement cards and in some cases give the new card which scans to someone else then the correct person flashes the one that won't work.

There is one problem with their method as what's happening is they will be asked to pay as if the card doesn't scan its not valid.

Many cards are blocked also and they still try to travel.

corner of hells

punisher5112 wrote: »

riclad wrote: »

Maybe they are bringing in photo id on travel cards ,
as theres some fraud ,as people can use stolen cards to travel for free ,
travel cards are not just used by old age pensioners .

They are its being in the process quite some time.

Funny thing many are damaging the cards and getting replacement cards and in some cases give the new card which scans to someone else then the correct person flashes the one that won't work.

There is one problem with their method as what's happening is they will be asked to pay as if the card doesn't scan its not valid.

Many cards are blocked also and they still try to travel.

I've read that post twice and still can't figure out what it's about.

punisher5112

corner of hells wrote: »

I've read that post twice and still can't figure out what it's about.

These cards are for either or both together. Its being brought in to cut out fraud but it is just making it easier to travel as they no longer show the card its placed on machine and it logs their travel.

cold hands

riclad wrote: »

This card is normally given to someone on welfare or a pension.
it,s more secure , it has a photograph on it,
its a photo id.
IT Reduces fraud as say some one finds your id they cant, use it
as it has you photo face on the front .
It,s not practical to expect everyone to carry a passport every time they go to the post office .
theres a good reason it exists .
People from certain countrys were giving thier cards to a friend to
collect welfare in ireland while they worked in another country .
EG the old welfare cards had no photo id of the user on them.
you wont to be left alone Great .
then perhaps do not apply for money from the welfare system.
Every modern welfare system needs new antifraud measures in the age when
anyone can make up id documents on a pc and email accounts are constantly being
hacked into .
do you care if some one steals your id and takes money from your welfare or your bank account?
Its not practical for most people to just use cash and not use the banking system at
all as part of a normal life.
TO acess the banking system you,ll need id and certain documents to prove your identity .

There is a difference where YOU make a decision to go to the bank and give your details and a government agency that requests these details of you.
Apart from child benefit I don't claim welfare money and anyway I'm getting a letter from them once per year to verify that im still here with my children

punisher5112

cold hands wrote: »

There is a difference where YOU make a decision to go to the bank and give your details and a government agency that requests these details of you.
Apart from child benefit I don't claim welfare money and anyway I'm getting a letter from them once per year to verify that im still here with my children

That's nice at least you get checked in on.

biko

cold hands wrote: »

What if I want to be left alone and not be interfered with?

You can always live in the forest.

muddypaws

If you're over 18 now, and resident in Ireland, you cannot apply for your first passport without having a public services card.

cold hands

biko wrote: »

You can always live in the forest.

Which one, as there aren't that many around?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

AlekSmart

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The key words in muddypaws post are FIRST PASSPORT.

Part of the reason we are now witnessing a belated kickback to the introduction of the new PSC's is the rapid increase in chancers being detected and brought to court.

Over the past few months,the DSP has successfuly prosecuted several cases of Welfare Fraud stretching back decades in some cases,and only detected thanks to the Security Features of the new PSC.

The widespread misuse of the 840,000 old style cardboard Free Travel Passes is,perhaps,the most commonplace,and is steadily diminishing as the positive identity requirement is applied.

It's a Win-Win situation for everybody,especially those funding the DSP's various programmes.

somesoldiers

I had to get one recently to be able to collect the Paternity leave 2 weeks payment next year. Booked online, nearest one to work was Parnell Street, arrived on time, seen to quickly, got it in the post a couple of weeks later.

Though why they can't combine all this, passports, driving license etc into those NDLS centres is beyond me. Am sure the Dublin ones are quite busy but the local one I go to in Trim never seems to have much going on and you can just rock up even on a Saturday without an appointment and be seen in minutes.

Xorinite

Sounds like a reasonable anti fraud measure to me. Anyone reading more into it would do well to remember that building secretive, mass surveillance systems requires a level of technological savvy and coordination well beyond the Irish government.

darkpagandeath

Costing a truck load of money it is.

B.A._Baracus

Hey op,
Best to just get one. If you ever need to go on the social welfare it'll come in handy. You'll just have to get one then anyways.

January

cold hands wrote: »

There is a difference where YOU make a decision to go to the bank and give your details and a government agency that requests these details of you.
Apart from child benefit I don't claim welfare money and anyway I'm getting a letter from them once per year to verify that im still here with my children

It's alright they'll cut your child benefit off eventually if you don't go to your appointments. They did it to me when I didn't go (was in hospital having a baby and forgot about it once I got out)

jay48

muddypaws wrote: »

If you're over 18 now, and resident in Ireland, you cannot apply for your first passport without having a public services card.

Gave the missus a lift in to the office to get a card so she could get a passport . Because I attended the office I was 'obliged' to have my picture taken . You also have to have your phone with you so they can text you a pin number and that phone number is registered to your name . A bit big brother !

darkpagandeath

jay48 wrote: »

Gave the missus a lift in to the office to get a card so she could get a passport . Because I attended the office I was 'obliged' to have my picture taken . You also have to have your phone with you so they can text you a pin number and that phone number is registered to your name . A bit big brother !

Would not worry. They cant detect a big phone bill in the Dail.

Atari Jaguar

jay48 wrote: »

Gave the missus a lift in to the office to get a card so she could get a passport . Because I attended the office I was 'obliged' to have my picture taken . You also have to have your phone with you so they can text you a pin number and that phone number is registered to your name . A bit big brother !

Sure if it's that big a deal giving them your phone number just buy a disposable phone.

jay48

Atari Jaguar wrote: »

Sure if it's that big a deal giving them your phone number just buy a disposable phone.

Didn't bother me in fairness , was just surprised about the amount of information I was 'obliged' to give her as I didn't want the card in the first place , I was only there waiting for the missus .

cold hands

And this is what I don't like the most - our freedom is peeled away in small steps that people are taking as granted that a) you have to have mobile phone (what if i don't have one, is there anywhere in the Irish constitution paragraph obliging me to have one?), b) you have to give it to anybody that requested it - the whole idea behind 'my' phone is that I govern this and it is up to me what is what I want to do with it, who do I give my number to and who I don't give number too as well.
Laugh if you want but I try to keep my privacy to myself as much as I can and situations like that bothers me a lot. Truman show, this is where we are.

Atari Jaguar

cold hands wrote: »

And this is what I don't like the most - our freedom is peeled away in small steps that people are taking as granted that a) you have to have mobile phone (what if i don't have one, is there anywhere in the Irish constitution paragraph obliging me to have one?), b) you have to give it to anybody that requested it - the whole idea behind 'my' phone is that I govern this and it is up to me what is what I want to do with it, who do I give my number to and who I don't give number too as well.
Laugh if you want but I try to keep my privacy to myself as much as I can and situations like that bothers me a lot. Truman show, this is where we are.

Relax

Losty Dublin

darkpagandeath wrote: »

Costing a truck load of money it is.

It didn't The cameras and software used to record the information for the cards cost well under a million euro. If it cuts out ten fraudulent welfare claims over ten years it's more than covered itself in that regard.

Widdershins

cold hands wrote: »

And this is what I don't like the most - our freedom is peeled away in small steps that people are taking as granted that a) you have to have mobile phone (what if i don't have one, is there anywhere in the Irish constitution paragraph obliging me to have one?), b) you have to give it to anybody that requested it - the whole idea behind 'my' phone is that I govern this and it is up to me what is what I want to do with it, who do I give my number to and who I don't give number too as well.
Laugh if you want but I try to keep my privacy to myself as much as I can and situations like that bothers me a lot. Truman show, this is where we are.

There's truth in this. If/when we are all using self driving cars, then you can really forget about privacy and anonymity. It's happening slowly but inexorably.

punisher5112

cold hands wrote: »

And this is what I don't like the most - our freedom is peeled away in small steps that people are taking as granted that a) you have to have mobile phone (what if i don't have one, is there anywhere in the Irish constitution paragraph obliging me to have one?), b) you have to give it to anybody that requested it - the whole idea behind 'my' phone is that I govern this and it is up to me what is what I want to do with it, who do I give my number to and who I don't give number too as well.
Laugh if you want but I try to keep my privacy to myself as much as I can and situations like that bothers me a lot. Truman show, this is where we are.

If that's how you feel you must stop using any technology whatsoever as every time you are on an online site or use anything electronic data is being stored about you. Also shopping reward cards and the likes also.

Its only a good thing with the cards and to be honest people should have to carry I.D on them anyway.

mynamejeff

i dont have one of these cards ,

then again i have a job, health insurance and a private pension and pay for my own life so i dont need one right ?

darkpagandeath

Losty Dublin wrote: »

It didn't The cameras and software used to record the information for the cards cost well under a million euro. If it cuts out ten fraudulent welfare claims over ten years it's more than covered itself in that regard.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/cost-of-public-services-card-rose-from-19-8m-to-60m-1.2836713

The price is still going up.

Widdershins

mynamejeff wrote: »

i dont have one of these cards ,

then again i have a job, health insurance and a private pension and pay for my own life so i dont need one right ?

I thought everyone's supposed to have one?
I have all of the above bar the pension, and I have a PPSN number. I think I have a card somewhere, with the number on it, which is what's being discussed, I think.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Widdershins

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Does everyone have to get the new version even if you're not claiming a social welfare payment?

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

cbreeze

mynamejeff wrote: »

i dont have one of these cards ,

then again i have a job, health insurance and a private pension and pay for my own life so i dont need one right ?

You won't need one just yet but you will need a PSC card for when the time comes for you to have free travel, the PSC-FT. Also, new applicants for passports will need to have one - that's the scary bit.

B.A._Baracus

Wasn't it the welfare tourists that brought the cards in?

The whole ash clouds over Europe a couple of years ago and something like 3,000 people "failed" to sign on :pac: or should I say fail to get a plane back to Ireland.

Guess it was really easy to scam the social before these new cards. Bumped into an old friend a couple of years ago who at that time was just back from Brazil. Says he was getting someone to collect and western union the money to him.

Atari Jaguar

B.A._Baracus wrote: »

Guess it was really easy to scam the social before these new cards. Bumped into an old friend a couple of years ago who at that time was just back from Brazil. Says he was getting someone to collect and western union the money to him.

That's shocking... a bank transfer is way cheaper.

Kermit.de.frog

The Specialist wrote: »

I got the letters and ignored both of them. If i want one of these, I will decide when and where I will go for one. Welfare have some neck setting up random appointments and bothering people in the first place.

They are sucking the t*t of the state. Ergo they should do what their paymasters tell them to do.

The easier option is simply to get a job and live independently and then there would be no such issues.

the watchman

When I got my last driving licence I had all sorts of documents and passport to prove who I was and they took photo which is on my licence. That licence proves who I am.

My mother has a paper travel pass. She had to take all sorts of documents and passport to prove who she was and her paper pass now has her photo attached to it. That pass proves who she is.

My friend has had a medical card for 25 years and has been in and out of hospital many times and has been registered with a local doctor for those years. With that medical card I think that the HSE accept and know who he is.

AFAIK it is not law or mandatory for existing users of state services (a great deal of the population) to obtain this new card, its just an invitation.

We micro chip dogs.
Currently It would still be unacceptable to implant a microchip containing all the information regarding an individual not to mention its possible tracking capabilties into that person however, what most of the people will accept is to carry pretty much at all times a PSC …with that chip in it!



As my father once told me 'everything which seems impossible, unacceptable or science fiction given enough time often comes true'.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

Nomis21

the watchman wrote: »

When I got my last driving licence I had all sorts of documents and passport to prove who I was and they took photo which is on my licence. That licence proves who I am.

My mother has a paper travel pass. She had to take all sorts of documents and passport to prove who she was and her paper pass now has her photo attached to it. That pass proves who she is.

My friend has had a medical card for 25 years and has been in and out of hospital many times and has been registered with a local doctor for those years. With that medical card I think that the HSE accept and know who he is.

AFAIK it is not law or mandatory for existing users of state services (a great deal of the population) to obtain this new card, its just an invitation.

We micro chip dogs.
Currently It would still be unacceptable to implant a microchip containing all the information regarding an individual not to mention its possible tracking capabilties into that person however, what most of the people will accept is to carry pretty much at all times a PSC …with that chip in it!



As my father once told me 'everything which seems impossible, unacceptable or science fiction given enough time often comes true'.

Can the Government trace users of the card as to their whereabouts?

I know anyone can be traced via their mobile phone, but that can be turned off and there is no obligation to carry the PSC card at all times. (Not yet anyway).

nailer54321

Got my card recently, you will eventually need it to renew you passport, driving licence etc looks like a form of id card by the back door, not sure why people have issues witb it, if uou have nouth to hide then it is not a problem, i think they should have put finger print on it, this would go a ling way to stop welfare fraud, if you travel to the US and refuse to give finger print yoi don't get to enter the US, so in my opion if uou refuse to give yoir finger print for the car and uour on welfare you should no receive anything, again if uou have nouth to hide this should not be an issue.
,

crossmolinalad

cold hands wrote: »

People are receiving letters with notification for an appointment for this card. In first paragraph it informs you that you can change time / date if it doesn't suit you leaving no hope to cancel an appointment if you don't want to have one.
It then explains how it 'helps protect you against identity theft' in a similar way where an organised crime extorts money from small business guys 'protecting' their stores from 'bad guys'.
What if I don't care that much of being protected by government bodies and agencies?
What if I want to be left alone and not be interfered with?
What if I don't care that this card already assists with access to state services?
I have a passport confirms that me is really me. Is this not enough? Also, it is mentioned that one should bring mobile phone along with other relevant documents. Am I paranoid or is this going really far into our privacy?
What are other thoughts in that matter?

That's why you need one

https://www.welfare.ie/en/downloads/PSCFUTURE.pdf

Johngoose

I have had numerous passports.Not much left on current passport, do I need to get one of these to get new passport?