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DNA Query - O'Ryans vs O'Mulryans

  • 16-12-2016 4:24pm
    #1
    bawn79
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 419 ✭✭


    I have a DNA question. I was reading "Records of the Four Tipperary Septs" and there is a suggestion in it that the Tipperary O'Mulryan's from Owney and the O'Ryan's in Idrone which both are generally now called Ryan were / are not the same family as such. In it Callinan references O'Donovan by saying they "both were of the race of Cathaeir Mór, king of Leinster and monarch of Ireland in the 2nd century, but their pedigrees are different".

    It got me thinking, would a DNA test of a typical Ryan from Owney (roughly west tipp) and one from Idrone (around Carlow) (ancestors going back a few generations in the area etc) show this? Is it likely that a test could tell the difference to that degree? Would it be conclusive? Could it potentially show when any split in the lines occurred? DNA isn't one of my strong points so apologies if this is a silly question.

      


Comments

  • #2
    tabbey
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,943 ✭✭✭tabbey


    The Ryans of Carlow would have more in common with the Ryans of Wexford,than with the enormous sept of Tipperary Ryans.


  • #3
    RGM
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 484 ✭✭RGM


    The short answer is yes, it could be possible to show this conclusively. However it would require expensive advance testing, which most people do not do. This type of testing would also require that the testers be men, as it only looks at the Y chromosome.

    I know that there is an ongoing Ryan DNA project but I'm not sure if they've specifically dealt with this issue.

    One thing to keep in mind though is that you'd expect a fair number of the Tipp Ryans, or any ancient line, to not match the main group. The surname of a line can change over time for any number of reasons.


  • #4
    dubhthach
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    A parallel example can be seen with for example the surname McManus. In genealogical tradition there are two seperate McManus families each descended from a different Maghnus. One is a branch of the O'Connor's of Connacht and the other is a branch of Maguires of Fermanagh.

    Unsurprisingly when we look at men with name McManus who've undergone testing we see two large clusters, one matching with Connacht surnames (including O'Connor) and another with close matches with Maguires etc.

    Also we see lots of smaller groups who though carrying name don't appear to be connected to either group (could be due to name assimilation during angliscation, or of course other reasons)


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