Jaguar continue to struggle in Irish market

goochy

The xe and f pace were seen as cars to transform jags fortune , however with sales of about 500 - similar to Lexus who don't even do diesels and have less dealers - they don't seem to be stirring buyers here.
There are new dealerships being built in Waterford, limerick and north dublin - to also sell land rover - but it seems the product range isn't up to scratch .
Always liked the XF but i think they have ruined its looks and the xe looks too like it. More seriously the 2 litre diesel engine fitted to the xe, xf and f pace is known be be very unrefined and noisy.
read a long term test of xe and they said the noisy engine was actually starting to annoy them
Big fan of xj but it doesn't sell and is being replaced

colm_mcm

Jags never sold well in Ireland. The S type, X type, XF and XE were all supposed to turn the jag brand around here. According to Irish motoring journalists - 99% of whom I wouldn't trust to write a shopping list, not to mind a researched, unbiased article.

goochy

The UK press test jags in group tests . point out their many flaws anf how competition is better then say they are the winner in test. That's bias.

ironclaw

Threading on controversial ground, but I'd wager the 'best of British' heritage probably doesn't help in an Irish context.

Personally I've never found them anything special and as a car nut, I wouldn't be drawn to one and they seem pretty common through the years on the road here, a lot of the old ones in bad repair. From my technical car nut side, I'd never seen them as innovative to the same degree as Audi, BMW or Mercedes and certainly on the performance side, those three offer a whole lot more.

Stallingrad

I doubt its British heritage is the problem, look at the Range Rovers all over the place. Rather the product range, dealer network and marketing are all a bit under whelming.

carsfan2

Went to local jag dealer earlier this year when changing.
Wanted to like the cars but couldn't.
Was interested in xe or f pace.
Very poor interior plastics on both, badly equipped as standard and the xe seriously short of interior space.
Compared to the German rivals just couldn't see anything superior in the jags.

mickdw

It's lack of proper marketing more than product imo.
Dealers are few and the brand is just not out there enough.
The original xf was a stunning car and they should have sold a pile of them.
Current xf and xe are a backward step imo.

Oafley Jones

carsfan2 wrote: »

Went to local jag dealer earlier this year when changing.
Wanted to like the cars but couldn't.
Was interested in xe or f pace.
Very poor interior plastics on both, badly equipped as standard and the xe seriously short of interior space.
Compared to the German rivals just couldn't see anything superior in the jags.

I remember reading that the finishing budget for the new Xf was cut by 20% at the last minute. Think the cost cutting shows. I found the quality substandard compared to the older car. Having said that the brother in law is on his third and really likes the new one.

Don't rate the XE at all. Think it's cramped and oddy proportioned with signs of penny pinching throughout.

unkel

goochy wrote: »

More seriously the 2 litre diesel engine fitted to the xe, xf and f pace is known be be very unrefined and noisy.

Diesels don't belong in luxury cars. 4 pot diesel engines are rough and unrefined. The opposite of what a luxury car is supposed to be. That's the first and foremost problem. And it doesn't help if you're a premium brand but use engines from Peugeot

I wouldn't mind an XF for my next family car, but there aren't too many early model 6 or 8 cylinder petrol ones about and they do seem to keep their second hand value better than I would have hoped...

Marcusm

unkel wrote: »

Diesels don't belong in luxury cars. 4 pot diesel engines are rough and unrefined. The opposite of what a luxury car is supposed to be. That's the first and foremost problem. And it doesn't help if you're a premium brand but use engines from Peugeot

I wouldn't mind an XF for my next family car, but there aren't too many early model 6 or 8 cylinder petrol ones about and they do seem to keep their second hand value better than I would have hoped...

No PSA engines anymore and even then they were only the V6 versions; the 4 pot 2.0 is internally designed Ingenium. The previous 4 pot was the 2.2 Ford diesel which I believe was not shared with PEugeot.

unkel

I don't really know about the newer engines, I was talking about the 2.2 and 2.7. The latter was a disaster of an engine. I bet very few Jaguar / Range Rover owners realised that their expensive high end car had a Peugeot engine!

Marcusm wrote: »

The previous 4 pot was the 2.2 Ford diesel which I believe was not shared with PEugeot.

That's what Jaguar says They said that about the 2.7 too. Or well that they actually made it in Dagenham, pure Jaguar engine, etc.

Marcusm

unkel wrote: »

I don't really know about the newer engines, I was talking about the 2.2 and 2.7. The latter was a disaster of an engine. I bet very few Jaguar / Range Rover owners realised that their expensive high end car had a Peugeot engine!



That's what Jaguar says They said that about the 2.7 too. Or well that they actually made it in Dagenham, pure Jaguar engine, etc.

Shurr the Sport is not a real Range Rover anyway so we can ignore the engines it used!

carsfan2

I think the product specs here need a rethink Mick.
The headline base prices are ok but their cars get very expensive when you add a few bits that come in other car brands as standard.
I also think they seriously dropped the ball with the new xf. On 17" wheels as standard it looks like a 90's Honda Accord with a rover grille.

mickdw

Ya, new XF is a major slip up.
I have not looked at them in enough detail to know what the spec is like versus the rivals. That alone means they are doing something wrong.

goochy

The xj is due to be replaced , it has not been a success for Jaguar but I think its possibly the coolest luxury car bar the mega money cars.
The uk mags are honest about jags shortfalls and list the ones mentioned here too - unlike we aren't going to be buying out of national pride.
A nice Rover 75 with 2 litre v6 suddenly seems nice !

Voodoomelon

The XJ is supposedly the best handling and best driving car of all the flagships. There can't be more than a hundred on these shores.

I think an element of patriotism does come into it, its just not the done thing to "own a Jaguar", which is much more synonymous with being British than say Range Rover models.

carsfan2

I actually think the xj is their best looking car and most avant garde but they weren't brave enough to follow through with the smaller models and went backward in styling terms.

I have to laugh when I see jags or land rovers in British road tests as they gloss over the faults and nearly always win group tests.
They won't succeed here until they have better showrooms and better equipped and finished cars that are well priced and that includes unfortunately in today's Irish market a good pcp product.
With sterling so weak right now actually their prices may have to go up not down of their cars I think.

mickdw

Voodoomelon wrote: »

The XJ is supposedly the best handling and best driving car of all the flagships. There can't be more than a hundred on these shores.

I think an element of patriotism does come into it, its just not the done thing to "own a Jaguar", which is much more synonymous with being British than say Range Rover models.

I'd like to get one of the last model xj to keep. I think they are a fantastic looking car.

Voodoomelon

Agreed, their multi spoke 20"s and a well specced interior looks the business. There's a dual tone wine and black 2011 model cruising around Dundalk, looks the business and is probably great value for money.

On a bizarre tangent, ever see that same model XJ that was absolutely smashed in a crash in the UK on one of the Motorway Cops shows? Some woman fell asleep and went head first into the front of this guys day-old XJ. He was surprisingly upbeat about it!

pa990

Jag just screams old man / Arthur Daly.


Mind you, I wouldn't mind one of the older model's

Nonoperational

unkel wrote: »

Diesels don't belong in luxury cars. 4 pot diesel engines are rough and unrefined. The opposite of what a luxury car is supposed to be. That's the first and foremost problem. And it doesn't help if you're a premium brand but use engines from Peugeot

I wouldn't mind an XF for my next family car, but there aren't too many early model 6 or 8 cylinder petrol ones about and they do seem to keep their second hand value better than I would have hoped...

You obviously haven't driven many modern decent 2L 4 pots.

I had more of a comment posted, but I think in the interest of saying nothing if one has nothing positive to say, I'll refrain from commenting on the consistently ordinary nonsense you post.

mickdw

Nonoperational wrote: »

You obviously haven't driven many modern decent 2L 4 pots.

I had more of a comment posted, but I think in the interest of saying nothing if one has nothing positive to say, I'll refrain from commenting on the consistently ordinary nonsense you post.

Having a 4 cylinder diesel in a luxury car is not nice whatever way you cut it.
Yes they are more refined than those of old and a good auto box helps too but still it's sad the way things have gone meaning nearly everything on the road is a 2.0 4 cylinder diesel.

unkel

Nonoperational wrote: »

You obviously haven't driven many modern decent 2L 4 pots.

There are no modern decent 2l 4 pot diesels that suit luxury cars. The only reason these engines are used is to lower the CO2 output of the car. Why would I want to drive one of these? I hope to keep driving 6 or 8 cylinder petrols as long as I can afford to, and by the looks of things, I might be holding out long enough to see these diesels banned.

Nonoperational wrote: »

in the interest of saying nothing if one has nothing positive to say, I'll refrain from commenting on the consistently ordinary nonsense you post.

Yet you break your own rule.

Jude13

Allot of XK's going very cheap over here, might be worth a look.

ctlsleh

I have the last version of the XF with the 2.2 4 pot putting out 200bhp......it really is a great car to drive if a bit heavy......the beauti of it is that it's not a 520d that have become common as muck.......that being said, while I would love to upgrade, the new XF just isn't appealing enough and despite my comments on the 520d, I'd be more likely to go for the new version coming out next year as it looks so much better.......how's that for schizophrenia....!

goochy

While I think the XF has disimproved looks wise , it still looks well. The f pace looks well also and it seems quite natural to have jag 4x4

Always been a fan of land rovers -.not defender -. Back to the days stuarts were the only RR dealers here . However even I am surprised by the success of the brand here , would it be true to say reliability is stil not their strongest point but irish people still love'em !

RedorDead

Drove the new F Pace last week and couldnt believe how agricultural it was. Had all the refinement of a massey ferguson. If you took away the branding it was like sitting in a cheap ford. Looks nice and the switchgear and touchscreen and new dash is nice but so unrefined its scary.

unkel

Let me guess, it had the 2l 4pot diesel engine?

carsfan2

When I looked at xe I was amazed at how Poor the quality of the interior plastics was.very cheap scratchy and thin in places you touch every day.
When I then saw a price list which was impossible to get on their website at the time I didn't bother test driving.
The other day a f pace roared up behind me on the motorway. Halogen lights just looked wrong on what was at least a 50k car.
The showroom was a portacabin but in fairness they are now building a proper one

WestWing

Voodoomelon wrote: »

The XJ is supposedly the best handling and best driving car of all the flagships. There can't be more than a hundred on these shores.

I think an element of patriotism does come into it, its just not the done thing to "own a Jaguar", which is much more synonymous with being British than say Range Rover models.

If that was the case, they why have Minis sold so well over the past decade in Ireland?

Surely the Mini is considered every bit as British as Jaguar is.

unkel

And as someone else said, the Range Rovers. Selling very well too, particularly in recent times. Rovers have always done well in Ireland too. I don't think the Britishness of products is an issue. Some Irish people don't want to hear it, but if you ask a continental European who has traveled a lot in both Britain and Ireland what the difference is between the two peoples and they'll probably say that culturally they're about 90% the same!

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

kooga

agree poor dealer network too many chopping and changing and no real Irish importer.
over priced and poor spec.

I have always said historically when it came to buying a jag and (now defunct Saab) 1 year old uk import.

RedorDead

unkel wrote: »

Let me guess, it had the 2l 4pot diesel engine?

Bingo!!! All jokes aside - its cat!

mickdw

kooga wrote: »

agree poor dealer network too many chopping and changing and no real Irish importer.
over priced and poor spec.

I have always said historically when it came to buying a jag and (now defunct Saab) 1 year old uk import.

Hard to disagree with that

carsfan2

I think you've nailed it there kooga.

HandsomeDan

RedorDead wrote: »

Bingo!!! All jokes aside - its cat!

Drive a g10 520d. One of the most refined cars Ive ever driven, and a 4 cylinder diesel to boot.

mickdw

f10 I presume you mean. Have you driven a 3.0d version of the same car?
It's a beautiful thing in comparison.

ctlsleh

There is no comparison between a 4 cylinder diesel and a 6 straight of V6........I've driven the previous version of V6 XF and its completely different power delivery and sound to the 4 pot.....that's just reality. I've also driven the F10 520d and it's a good engine too, but it still drones just like the 2.2 in the XF......4 pot diesels just sound **** period

selectamatic

unkel wrote: »

And as someone else said, the Range Rovers. Selling very well too, particularly in recent times. Rovers have always done well in Ireland too. I don't think the Britishness of products is an issue. Some Irish people don't want to hear it, but if you ask a continental European who has traveled a lot in both Britain and Ireland what the difference is between the two peoples and they'll probably say that culturally they're about 90% the same!

Agree that patriotism has nothing to do with it no one had any problem driving Brittish Leyland cars in the 70's and 80's except for the terrible reliability.

I definitely feel it's down to a stigma of old man car (car stereotypes play a huge factor in both new and used sales) and price.

The interior finish on some models can leave a lot to be desired and also driving dynamics can be iffy too on some models.

Not sure on the culture comment. Theres as much a difference as possible considering the geographical closeness and shared language.

From my own experience in nearly every continental country I've been in the mood tends to be much friendlier when you explain you're from Ireland rather than Britain/England.

Arthur Daley

They seemed to sell loads 2000 to 2007. Cheap x and s types are all over carzone/donedeal. Always been good value vs. The germans if you sort the wheat from the chaff and get a well minded one.

ctlsleh

Jaguar now offering 2.9% APR on a PCP......tempting......has anyone successfully entered and exited a PCP, I'm interested to know how it went

GreenFolder2

The problem is if you can afford a new Jag, you'd probably buy a Mercedes, a BMW, an Audi, a Volvo etc.

I don't know what it is about the current Jaguars but I just cannot warm to them.

They don't look 'luxury car' anymore and the front grill frankly looks like something of some bad US design.

ctlsleh

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

The problem is if you can afford a new Jag, you'd probably buy a Mercedes, a BMW, an Audi, a Volvo etc.

I don't know what it is about the current Jaguars but I just cannot warm to them.

They don't look 'luxury car' anymore and the front grill frankly looks like something of some bad US design.

I have the previous XF, now 4 years old, is a beautiful car to drive, the reason I chose it originally was because the 5 series and the A6 became so common and I feel the Merc is an older mans car, albeit the new version is more appealing......I'm pretty sure the same will happen with the new 5aeries and new A6 and the Jag stands out as being just a bit different to the norm........that's my 2c at least

mickdw

ctlsleh wrote: »

Jaguar now offering 2.9% APR on a PCP......tempting......has anyone successfully entered and exited a PCP, I'm interested to know how it went

pcp is fine as long as you can genuinely afford the car.
If you can afford the repayments with about 10 to 15 percent deposit, you should be in good shape.
On the other hand if someone can only afford the repayments because they are throwing a trade in worth 30 percent deposit at the deal, well it will likely be a disaster and unable to replace the car.
Furthermore, I would only take a PCP on a car that is guaranteed to be still the current model 3 years later else you will be losing out big time on value at the end.

maddness

Three years ago I was looking at a XF and between the useless Jaguar Ireland website where I could not get an up to date price list and their even more useless configurator I just lost interest. Their model range is also more complicated than it needs to be with a lot of features that should be standard and are not. Shame as I thought it was a great looking car. The new XF is a big step backwards in the looks department and the XE is an awful looking thing.
I ended up in a 520D and yes the horrible 4 cylinder diesel should be nowhere near a supposed luxury car.

Marcusm

I saw a lovely Blue F Pace S in Rathmines today; that's 90k before you add anything!

carsfan2

I don't think buying a car based on pcp interest rates is good reason to buy one.
If you like the car and the rate is good then win/win.
I actually think the jag is nearly more of an old mans car nowadays too as some of the newer Mercedes cars are very well styled and modern looking.

listermint

maddness wrote: »

Three years ago I was looking at a XF and between the useless Jaguar Ireland website where I could not get an up to date price list and their even more useless configurator I just lost interest. Their model range is also more complicated than it needs to be with a lot of features that should be standard and are not. Shame as I thought it was a great looking car. The new XF is a big step backwards in the looks department and the XE is an awful looking thing.
I ended up in a 520D and yes the horrible 4 cylinder diesel should be nowhere near a supposed luxury car.

Cant get over how awful this is to look at, i mean it burns my eyes .......

ctlsleh

Is it not better to maximise the deposit to reduce the amount of interest paid over the term.....?

mickdw

yes absolutely in terms of interest.
Where people have issue I'd that they go in to buy a car. They own outright their current car that might be worth full 30 percent deposit.
They then get the lowest possible payment per month.
On returning 3 years later, they most likely will only have 10 to 15 percent deposit from equity in the pcp car resulting in requirement for cash injection or higher monthly payment.
Therefore I believe people should check on day one what the payments would be like with 10 percent deposit and see if they can afford that payment long term.
Alternatively, it may suit some to throw a lump of cash at deal every 3 years but that is a different scenario.