An board pleanala

Bogger boy

Hi , new to this , does anybody have any experience dealing with ABP single house planning appeals ? I am on my 3rd failed application in my local council and having no joy trying to deal with them , was advised to go the ABP appeals process but I know if I am refused with them it's game over , does anybody know the percentage rate of over ruled applications ! I am hoping somebody could share any experiences they had with ABP good or bad so I can try decide what to do !!

elperello

Have a look at this link-
http://www.ipi.ie/consultants
A consultant will cost you but in terms of the overall cost of building it may prove a worthwhile investment.

Bogger boy

Thanks elperello but I've gone down the road with architect and planning consultants no joy , my problem is my local council refuse to meet with me or read any of my applications , so my only option is to appeal it to ABP just wanting to see what opinions people had with the appeals process

elperello

What do you mean when you say they won't read your applications?
A lot depends on the reasons for refusal.Every case is different in it's own way.
If the local authority refusal is in line with national legislation and the local development plan it's hard to see ABP overturning it.
Having said that it can be a lottery and you might be lucky.

schemingbohemia

Lots not adding up here.

How can they refuse without having read your applications?
Each refusal must, by law, have the reasons for refusal.
Is it DLR or South Dublin?

Bogger boy

I applied for my first application , it failed and I sat down with my architect and planning consultant, we rectified each refusal road frontage, roof height , a full detailed report of why I needed to live in the area I was born and raised , one of there refusals was I had no need to live in the area I was born and raided and that I could buy a house in a local housing estate, I submitted the application and they refused it again with exactly the same points as the first application it was nearly like a copy and paste , 3 rd application we changed a few more bits we lowered the roof height , we reduced the house from a 2000 square foot storey and a half down to a 900 square foot single storey cottage , I had 35 local councillors submit letters of support , I had my application brought up at the local area meeting in my local council , low and behold they refused it again except this time it was 9 points of refusal , they refuse to meet me or talk to my architect or planning consultant , it's so frustrating and disheartening dealing with these people, application after application and a lot of money wasted on each application and they won't have the decency to read my application or have contact with me , my last option is an ABP appeal and I know the risk if they say no ! I am just curious to know what people's opinions is of ABP and do they over turn many decisions for one off houses !

godtabh

Bogger boy wrote: »

Thanks elperello but I've gone down the road with architect and planning consultants no joy , my problem is my local council refuse to meet with me or read any of my applications , so my only option is to appeal it to ABP just wanting to see what opinions people had with the appeals process

Doen't sound like you have good consultants working for you.

What were the grounds for refusal?

Bogger boy

I am in a high amenity area so the local planners make planning as difficult as they can , there's no problem with my architect or consultant sdcc are just making it as difficult as they can !
Main reason for refusal was , I don't have a good enough need to built or live in the area , roof height , road frontage they noticed rushed in the field so they condemned the site on a visual inspection that it would have drainage issues even though my percolation test passed , and the local green belt area refusal

coylemj

Bogger boy wrote: »

one of there refusals was I had no need to live in the area I was born and raided and that I could buy a house in a local housing estate!

Bogger boy wrote: »

I am in a high amenity area so the local planners make planning as difficult as they can

They're trying to tell you that they don't want anyone building on that spot. Your solution is to tweak the building specifications, sounds like you and the council planners are on different wavelengths. I hardly think that getting letters from councillors will get you anywhere - why would any of them refuse to sign such a letter?

Seaswimmer

Bogger boy wrote: »

I applied for my first application , it failed and I sat down with my architect and planning consultant, we rectified each refusal road frontage, roof height , a full detailed report of why I needed to live in the area I was born and raised , one of there refusals was I had no need to live in the area I was born and raided and that I could buy a house in a local housing estate, I submitted the application and they refused it again with exactly the same points as the first application it was nearly like a copy and paste , 3 rd application we changed a few more bits we lowered the roof height , we reduced the house from a 2000 square foot storey and a half down to a 900 square foot single storey cottage , I had 35 local councillors submit letters of support , I had my application brought up at the local area meeting in my local council , low and behold they refused it again except this time it was 9 points of refusal , they refuse to meet me or talk to my architect or planning consultant , it's so frustrating and disheartening dealing with these people, application after application and a lot of money wasted on each application and they won't have the decency to read my application or have contact with me , my last option is an ABP appeal and I know the risk if they say no ! I am just curious to know what people's opinions is of ABP and do they over turn many decisions for one off houses !

What is the risk if they say no?

surely then you have reached the end of the road having exhausted all options in a fully open and transparent manner.

you also mention a local green belt.

I cant see any planner agreeing to build in/on a green belt?

Maybe its not meant to be!

qb123

One off houses are the ruin of this country and many more of these applications should be refused. Glad to see it's happening sometimes, despite 35(!!) councilors supporting. Nothing to stop the OP buying a house in an existing estate and putting less strain on the resources of the community.

Bogger boy

The risk of applying to ABP is if they say no well that's the end of the road , I understand what you're saying that if it's a green belt area but there's a certain criteria you need to meet and I meet them all , don't allow big 2 story mansions to be built from people who aren't from the area then, one of the criteria is you need to be from the area , these houses are being sold and rented , I apply and get a miserable refusal ,

Bogger boy

qb123 wrote: »

One off houses are the ruin of this country and many more of these applications should be refused. Glad to see it's happening sometimes, despite 35(!!) councilors supporting. Nothing to stop the OP buying a house in an existing estate and putting less strain on the resources of the community.

Oh yeah because there's such a large selection of family homes to buy in Dublin , ive a right to choose where I live and i am not going to let my local council tell me where I can and can't live , where do you live ? I guarantee it's not just you're average 3 bed room house in a housing estate

Seaswimmer

Bogger boy wrote: »

The risk of applying to ABP is if they say no well that's the end of the road , I understand what you're saying that if it's a green belt area but there's a certain criteria you need to meet and I meet them all , don't allow big 2 story mansions to be built from people who aren't from the area then, one of the criteria is you need to be from the area , these houses are being sold and rented , I apply and get a miserable refusal ,

But take it to its logical conclusion.

You are from the area and build a house. You settle down, have a few kids and in 25 years time your kids are "from the area" and want to settle down in the area and build their own house.

Can you see where we are going with this?

In a generation or 2 the entire countryside is populated with one off houses with all of the resulting issues that causes.

schemingbohemia

Bogger boy wrote: »

Oh yeah because there's such a large selection of family homes to buy in Dublin , ive a right to choose where I live and i am not going to let my local council tell me where I can and can't live , where do you live ? I guarantee it's not just you're average 3 bed room house in a housing estate

I think you'll find that this whole thread, which you started, is all about the local council telling you that you can't build where you want to build.

Bogger boy

Seaswimmer wrote: »

Bogger boy wrote: »

The risk of applying to ABP is if they say no well that's the end of the road , I understand what you're saying that if it's a green belt area but there's a certain criteria you need to meet and I meet them all , don't allow big 2 story mansions to be built from people who aren't from the area then, one of the criteria is you need to be from the area , these houses are being sold and rented , I apply and get a miserable refusal ,

But take it to its logical conclusion.

You are from the area and build a house. You settle down, have a few kids and in 25 years time your kids are "from the area" and want to settle down in the area and build their own house.


Can you see where we are going with this?

In a generation or 2 the entire countryside is populated with one off houses with all of the resulting issues that causes.

Yeah and I can see exactly where you're coming from but why don't the council say NO PLANNING !instead they in force there's certain rules and criteria that you have to follow , people follow these rules and they still say no , if they had of said no at the start I would be down thousands of euros wasted , that's my point , why can't they say no houses will be build in this area again rather than lead me down a pointless road wasting my time and money ,

readytosnap

Bogger boy wrote: »

ive a right to choose where I live and i am not going to let my local council tell me where I can and can't live

I don't think the council are telling you that you cannot live in the area, they are telling you that you cannot build in the area, there is a difference.
I wouldn't want to live in a housing estate, no matter where it was, having said that, the last place I would build a house would be anywhere near a housing estate.
From what I have read the council are never going to give you permission, you would be better off building elsewhere and commuting if the need to build is so important, if it is not that important then you will just have to choose from existing stock. you are just wasting money appealing over and over.
I feel your frustration but I really think there is no light at the end of the tunnel for your application.

Bogger boy

readytosnap wrote: »

Bogger boy wrote: »

ive a right to choose where I live and i am not going to let my local council tell me where I can and can't live

I don't think the council are telling you that you cannot live in the area, they are telling you that you cannot build in the area, there is a difference.
I wouldn't want to live in a housing estate, no matter where it was, having said that, the last place I would build a house would be anywhere near a housing estate.
From what I have read the council are never going to give you permission, you would be better off building elsewhere and commuting if the need to build is so important, if it is not that important then you will just have to choose from existing stock. you are just wasting money appealing over and over.
I feel your frustration but I really think there is no light at the end of the tunnel for your application.

It's looking like that way alright , I've seen people apply up to 9 times exhausting all avenues and eventually get it , but it takes a lot out of you 😢

Exiled1

Perhaps the Council is correct and working for the good of our community. Just because it inconveniences you doesn't mean it is wrong!

Bogger boy

Exiled1 wrote: »

Perhaps the Council is correct and working for the good of our community. Just because it inconveniences you doesn't mean it is wrong!

I'd love to drive you around and show you what the council have granted permission
For in the last 10 years I can assure you , you will change you're tone very quickly ,

schemingbohemia

Bogger boy wrote: »

I'd love to drive you around and show you what the council have granted permission
For in the last 10 years I can assure you , you will change you're tone very quickly ,

So they should keep on making bad decisions?

Larbre34

Whats the county development plan zoning for the location? If its not 'residential amenity' or similar wording, you might as well give up now. I can only envisage the problems you have encountered in a semi-rural or rural area. Planning authorities in urban Dublin generally love in-fill res. development.

Hope you werent sold a pup when you bought the land, or was it part of a family site or something?

Bogger boy

Larbre34 wrote: »

Whats the county development plan zoning for the location? If its not 'residential amenity' or similar wording, you might as well give up now. I can only envisage the problems you have encountered in a semi-rural or rural area. Planning authorities in urban Dublin generally love in-fill res. development.

Hope you werent sold a pup when you bought the land, or was it part of a family site or something?

Hi , thanks for the reply , no it's family land and it was in an area for building once the person followed all the criteria , are you familiar with the planning process ??

Larbre34

Bogger boy wrote: »

Hi , thanks for the reply , no it's family land and it was in an area for building once the person followed all the criteria , are you familiar with the planning process ??

Yes im a consultant planner

Bogger boy

Larbre34 wrote: »

Bogger boy wrote: »

Hi , thanks for the reply , no it's family land and it was in an area for building once the person followed all the criteria , are you familiar with the planning process ??

Yes im a consultant planner

I know it sounds cheeky but if I private mailed you my planning number would you give me you're personal opinion ?

Reati

Unfortunately you don't have a right to build anywhere you want. You have the right to buy a house already built but not to build in what the council seems to deem as a unrequired development. The council enforce the development plan and "green" areas can be very hard to get a yes. I know people who spent 10 years fighting for a yes in such areas.

I'm not saying i don't feel for you or agree with the council but after 3 attempts it does seem that something isn't right.

The need to live in a given area is very hard to get around, esp if you already own a home.

Certain areas are also much harder than others. Wicklow for example. Where are you trying?

Bogger boy

Reati wrote: »

Unfortunately you don't have a right to build anywhere you want. You have the right to buy a house already built but not to build in what the council seems to deem as a unrequired development. The council enforce the development plan and "green" areas can be very hard to get a yes. I know people who spent 10 years fighting for a yes in such areas.

I'm not saying i don't feel for you or agree with the council but after 3 attempts it does seem that something isn't right.

The need to live in a given area is very hard to get around, esp if you already own a home.

Certain areas are also much harder than others. Wicklow for example. Where are you trying?

I am living in south co Dublin , yes I agree with you that I don't have a right to build where I want , but there was a house on my foot print pre 1962 and a family reired and lived there till mid 1980 , I don't own a house , that's one of the criteria is you can't own a home because you don't need to build !

Reati

Bogger boy wrote: »

Reati wrote: »

Unfortunately you don't have a right to build anywhere you want. You have the right to buy a house already built but not to build in what the council seems to deem as a unrequired development. The council enforce the development plan and "green" areas can be very hard to get a yes. I know people who spent 10 years fighting for a yes in such areas.

I'm not saying i don't feel for you or agree with the council but after 3 attempts it does seem that something isn't right.

The need to live in a given area is very hard to get around, esp if you already own a home.

Certain areas are also much harder than others. Wicklow for example. Where are you trying?

I am living in south co Dublin , yes I agree with you that I don't have a right to build where I want , but there was a house on my foot print pre 1962 and a family reired and lived there till mid 1980 , I don't own a house , that's one of the criteria is you can't own a home because you don't need to build !

I get that but that doesn't mean anything to planners if the house still isn't there. I've been through planning myself so I know all the criteria inside out. I wish you all the best mate but only go via ABP if you have a water tight reason for them to give you a yes. They're unlikely to overturn 3 refusals lightly but without seeing the why they say no, it's hard to tell you anything. Maybe you can copy the refusal letter text here from the online tool and remove your personal details?