who disposes of waste

the_pen_turner

hypothetic but based on past events


i was on a job last week. it was an office complex.
i was doing a few unrelated jobs.
there was a floor fitter in doing the flooring.
he works for a company. they supplied and fitted the floor

when the job was done the office manager/boss asked when was he taking the waste. he said 'oh we dont take that, thats yours to deal with'.

the boss went nuts . rang the company and efffed them out of it. they said the same about not taking the waste.
boss refused to pay them untill its taken away.
i went home but they were still argueing
i think they took it becasue it was gone the next morning



the way i deal with waste is if i supply then its mine. if they supply then its theirs

whats the law in relation to waste and who is responsible for it

Mr. Incognito

You make the mess you clean it.

The law of common sense

the_pen_turner

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

You make the mess you clean it.

The law of common sense

im not talking about a mess. of course you sweep up and bag up any rubbish.
only a cowboy (or spark) would leave a place in a state

it is who disposes of these bags of waste that is the question

Mr. Incognito

the_pen_turner wrote: »

im not talking about a mess. of course you sweep up and bag up any rubbish.
only a cowboy (or spark) would leave a place in a state

it is who disposes of these bags of waste that is the question

The person who created it. Is there an echo here ?

I had my house painted. If the painter left a load of bags of waste behind id be deducting the costs of the disposal from my fee

the_pen_turner

Mr. Incognito wrote: »

The person who created it. Is there an echo here ?

I had my house painted. If the painter left a load of bags of waste behind id be deducting the costs of the disposal from my fee

i agree 100 percent if the painter supplied the piant.
would you expect the painter to take away the cans etc if you bought the paint

uck51js9zml2yt

They may have supplied it but you own it.
It's purchased by the customer for the job. The fact that there is excess is immaterial.

Atari Jaguar

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i agree 100 percent if the painter supplied the piant.
would you expect the painter to take away the cans etc if you bought the paint

If you supply the paint buckets then that becomes your problem. The opposite is his problem.

However if the painter put down plastic sheets to protect the floor and furnitures I'd ask that he took those (which he probably would) but things like masking tape he can just chuck into my bin.

But to answer the OP - there's no "law" on disposal of rubbish. It's just a decent thing to do. But if I say had a tiler in and they had a big bucket of waste tiles left over, he can dispose of them himself, but I'd leave him throw boxes etc into my recycling.

Atlantic Dawn

All goes down to what the deal was at the start, if nothing was specified it would be assumed that customer would pay. I always if it's new windows, carpets etc I am getting fitted clarify from the outset who will be taking the old stuff away.

Atari Jaguar

Makenna Spoiled Eve wrote: »

They may have supplied it but you own it.
It's purchased by the customer for the job. The fact that there is excess is immaterial.

Actually if I hire a painter I'm hiring him for the sole purpose of putting paint on my walls. I don't care if he carries it in his pockets as long as the job looks clean when it's done. I wouldn't fight him over some empty tins but I'd be more appreciative and likely to use their service again if they did take them. Besides that most would and repurpose them for mixing paints or cleaning brushes in spirits.

the_pen_turner

Makenna Spoiled Eve wrote: »

They may have supplied it but you own it.
It's purchased by the customer for the job. The fact that there is excess is immaterial.

im not sure i follow what your saying

Owryan

Used to work with a carpet fitter. The left overs were always left with the owner. We would help clean up the mess but the person who paid for the carpet was responsible for disposing of it.

Company policy and most floor/carpet fitters had the same.

the_pen_turner

Atari Jaguer wrote: »

If you supply the paint buckets then that becomes your problem. The opposite is his problem.

However if the painter put down plastic sheets to protect the floor and furnitures I'd ask that he took those (which he probably would) but things like masking tape he can just chuck into my bin.

But to answer the OP - there's no "law" on disposal of rubbish. It's just a decent thing to do. But if I say had a tiler in and they had a big bucket of waste tiles left over, he can dispose of them himself, but I'd leave him throw boxes etc into my recycling.

i agree. if i the tradesman supply then the waste (excess,rubbish, etc) is mine . if the customer supplies then it is theirs

in your tiler sinario would you expect the tiler to take away the offcuts from tiles you supplied

the_pen_turner

Owryan wrote: »

Used to work with a carpet fitter. The left overs were always left with the owner. We would help clean up the mess but the person who paid for the carpet was responsible for disposing of it.

Company policy and most floor/carpet fitters had the same.

this is the exact situation i witnessed last week.
why is it any diferent
if the shop is paid to carpet your sitting room supply and fit then they own the offcuts and waste (glue tins etc). why would you leave them for the customer to deal with

the_pen_turner

Atari Jaguer wrote: »

Actually if I hire a painter I'm hiring him for the sole purpose of putting paint on my walls. I don't care if he carries it in his pockets as long as the job looks clean when it's done. I wouldn't fight him over some empty tins but I'd be more appreciative and likely to use their service again if they did take them. Besides that most would and repurpose them for mixing paints or cleaning brushes in spirits.

most painter will take the buckets because they are handy to have . there is some value to those buckets.
offcuts of carpet or laminate floor offcuts are worthless. nobody wants them

Owryan

the_pen_turner wrote: »

this is the exact situation i witnessed last week.
why is it any diferent
if the shop is paid to carpet your sitting room supply and fit then they own the offcuts and waste (glue tins etc). why would you leave them for the customer to deal with

Customer buys the carpet, its theirs, off cuts included. If they also buy the underlay, grips, naplocks then any cut offs are also theirs.

Any fitters i worked with supplied their own glue/nails screws so would remove them .

Why would they take and dispose of someone elses rubbish? In general people dont buy the exact measurements of carpet, they always add a couple of inches so it is all their property.

Atari Jaguar

the_pen_turner wrote: »

i agree. if i the tradesman supply then the waste (excess,rubbish, etc) is mine . if the customer supplies then it is theirs

in your tiler sinario would you expect the tiler to take away the offcuts from tiles you supplied

No because I supplied the tiles. They cut them but that's required for the job. I'd never be bothered fighting over it either.

"Will you take them offcuts with you"

"No"

"*whispers* bollix ye"

"?? What??"

"No yeah grand"

the_pen_turner

Atari Jaguer wrote: »

No because I supplied the tiles. They cut them but that's required for the job. I'd never be bothered fighting over it either.

"Will you take them offcuts with you"

"No"

"*whispers* bollix ye"

"?? What??"

"No yeah grand"

i dont understand why anyone would expect the tradesman to take the customers rubbish away

the_pen_turner

Owryan wrote: »

Customer buys the carpet, its theirs, off cuts included. If they also buy the underlay, grips, naplocks then any cut offs are also theirs.

Any fitters i worked with supplied their own glue/nails screws so would remove them .

Why would they take and dispose of someone elses rubbish? In general people dont buy the exact measurements of carpet, they always add a couple of inches so it is all their property.

thats ok the customer is supplying the carpet and using one of the reconmended fitters. that is usually two transactions.

if you went into a carpet shop and asket for your 12 foot by 12foot room to the supplied and fitted with carpet then i dont own the carpet until its down in the room and i only own the 12foot by 12 foot. i dont care what you do with the offcuts once you take them away.

goz83

Plenty of flooring suppliers have recommended installers, but unless the installer happens to be the supplier of the goods, then the goods (excess inclusive) belong to the customer before, during and after installation.

uck51js9zml2yt

A customer pays for day 12'x16' of carpet.
If the room is smaller than that with alcoves etc, then that 12x16 is still the customers. He paid for it.

Owryan

the_pen_turner wrote: »

thats ok the customer is supplying the carpet and using one of the reconmended fitters. that is usually two transactions.

if you went into a carpet shop and asket for your 12 foot by 12foot room to the supplied and fitted with carpet then i dont own the carpet until its down in the room and i only own the 12foot by 12 foot. i dont care what you do with the offcuts once you take them away.

Nope. You own what you pay for, that includes the cut offs.

the_pen_turner

Owryan wrote: »

Nope. You own what you pay for, that includes the cut offs.

I dis agree

seamus

Owryan wrote: »

Nope. You own what you pay for, that includes the cut offs.

In a hypothetical dispute that ended up in court, after a judge ripped both parties a new arse for acting like children, he would indeed point out that all leftover materials, or discarded materials, are the property of the person who paid for the work and not the property of the contractor.

And are therefore the property owner's obligation to dispose of correctly.

Some contractors may do a rudimentary tidy up because they think it's the professional thing to do; but they'll still throw all the crap in your bin and you will pay to have it taken away.

Flooring an office specifically my experience is that the fitter usually leaves the leftovers piled up in the middle of the room or if there's a "back" area where boxes or other rubbish goes, they might bring it out there and leave it for the company to deal with.

I've never heard of any contractor taking waste with them.

the_pen_turner

Any contractors I worked for would take the rubbish away or put it in their skip

MarkR

Contractor was contracted to fulfill a contract. To install a floor. Anything after that was only an assumption.

hullaballoo

I would have thought that the customary practice would be read into the contract (unless the contract actually stipulates who pays) in a case such as this. When building/renovation works are being carried out at any premises, skip hire etc. is pretty much always paid for by the employer, isn't it?

I don't think the concept of ownership of the materials is relevant at all tbh.

longgonesilver

The concept of ownership of the goods would quite quickly become an issue if the offcuts or waste material had a substantial value for example wool carpets being laid in an L shaped room and the customer asked that it be put down in one piece to avoid joints, potential trip hazard in the future. The off cut could be used else-where on the premises and the customer would expect it to be left behind.

Owryan

the_pen_turner wrote: »

I dis agree

How do you not own something you paid for?

I buy some flooring, i pay for someone to fit it, afterwards there are some bits left over. Where in that scenario does ownership of the flooring transfer to the fitter?

Cookie_Monster

Offcuts are useful for mats or spare tiles are always useful too (or timber) or most other things.
Packaging on the other hand should always be taken IMO. Commercial / industrial volumes of packaging material cannot be reasonably dealt with by residents

smjm

Do tradesmen need some kind of waste disposal permit to take away materials these days? I seem to remember reading somewhere that this was the case. Could be wrong though!

the_pen_turner

smjm wrote: »

Do tradesmen need some kind of waste disposal permit to take away materials these days? I seem to remember reading somewhere that this was the case. Could be wrong though!

your supposed to

JimsAlterEgo

would surely depend on what the contractor was contracted to do

1. Contracted to supply and fit a carpet for a fixed amount = remove waste

2. Contracted separately to the purchase of the carpet to fit a carpet = waste stays with owner. Should be tidied.

the_pen_turner

JimsAlterEgo wrote: »

would surely depend on what the contractor was contracted to do

1. Contracted to supply and fit a carpet for a fixed amount = remove waste

2. Contracted separately to the purchase of the carpet to fit a carpet = waste stays with owner. Should be tidied.

This is the way I do it.
I can't understand any other way.

I asked 3 other tradesmen yesterday and they agreed it is the tradesman responsibility if they supplied

Atari Jaguar

the_pen_turner wrote: »

This is the way I do it.
I can't understand any other way.

I asked 3 other tradesmen yesterday and they agreed it is the tradesman responsibility if they supplied

Especially the likes of carpet right who supply and fit carpet. They should bring the waste with them.

smjm

Atari Jaguar wrote: »

Especially the likes of carpet right who supply and fit carpet. They should bring the waste with them.

Carpet fitters are often private contractors, and they probably wouldn't have waste disposal permits.

bellissima

I got laminate flooring in a smallish room. It was done by what seemed to be an independent contractor operating in one of the very well-known furniture/flooring stores. I was very surprised that they left a lot of cut tiles to cleaned up. Even more surprised that they left good tiles there in a box! You would think that this would be uneconomical for them. Nor were they any good to me. I rang to enquire about the situation and the contractor seemed genunely surprised that I would expect them to clean up. But he did say that if I brought the waste to the premises they would dispose of it.In fairness, the job was such a good deal that I said no, it was ok. Seems to be the norm now!

uck51js9zml2yt

I can't figure out why people would think the product they paid for and is theirs shouldn't be left with them.
If I order 9 boxes of laminate and pay for 9 , and only 8 are used. That extra box is mine, not the suppliers.

the_pen_turner

I can't understand how people can't see the difference between the customer supplies and some one fits and between customer gets company to supply and fit.



Whoever supplies the materials owns th and should be responsible for the wase

Owryan

the_pen_turner wrote: »

I can't understand how people can't see the difference between the customer supplies and some one fits and between customer gets company to supply and fit.



Whoever supplies the materials owns th and should be responsible for the wase

how does a customer supply their own flooring? unless they made it they still get it from somewhere. I ve fitted carpet for people who bought it in one shop and arranged their own fitting and i ve worked in houses where the person got the store to deliver and fit it.

Who owns the material once its fitted then?

I ve never come across the scenario where a person orders carpet, has it fitted and then only pays for the bit that is used. Nobody ever buys precisely the size needed there is always a small margin for error built in.

the_pen_turner

you judt answered your own question.
of course a customer can supply their own flooring. there are shops out there .

this seams to be a problem that is endemic to the carpet game. they never clean up after themselves

if a customer goes into a flooring shop and buy 10sq m of flooring then they own all the flooring and waste
the fitter is contracted speratly


if a customer goes into a flooring shop and asks for their 9sqm sitting room to be supplied and fitted . then the shop is doing both sides of the contract and owns all the flooring until the job is done.
they also own all the waste

the_pen_turner

Owryan wrote: »

how does a customer supply their own flooring? unless they made it they still get it from somewhere. I ve fitted carpet for people who bought it in one shop and arranged their own fitting and i ve worked in houses where the person got the store to deliver and fit it.

Who owns the material once its fitted then?
the customer owns in the first and the shop owns in the second
I ve never come across the scenario where a person orders carpet, has it fitted and then only pays for the bit that is used. Nobody ever buys precisely the size needed there is always a small margin for error built in.

still going to get charged for the waste

Owryan

Ok, this is only my personal experience of the carpet game. When someone goes into a shop and asks for a specific measurement of carpet a reputable salesperson will explain that they allow a few inches for a margin of error. If the customer is happy with this they will pay for all the carpet, including the extra bit. Therefore it is all theirs. I ve turned up at houses where the customer supplied the measurement and found they were out by an inch or 2.

I have never fitted carpet where it was sold to the precise room measurement.

If you pay for it you own it. Next time i get a pizza delivered im going to tell the delivery guy to take back the box, after all i only ordered and paid for the pizza itself.

As for carpet fitters leaving a mess, we always cleaned up. But why would we take someone elses rubbish?

You seem to believe that the client only pays for the bit that is fitted and the shop should be shoulder the cost of the cut offs, carpet/floor fitting isnt that straightforward.

Ann22

the_pen_turner wrote:

when the job was done the office manager/boss asked when was he taking the waste. he said 'oh we dont take that, thats yours to deal with'.

I take it he's not referring to the old flooring that was removed?
I think the company putting down the flooring should of course take the waste and tidy up but understandable that they may offer to leave extra boxes of tiles or perhaps extra lats of wood that have been paid for. For removed old carpet/tiles/wooden flooring they will offer to dispose but a private fitter is unlikely to.

the_pen_turner

Ann22 wrote: »

I take it he's not referring to the old flooring that was removed?
I think the company putting down the flooring should of course take the waste and tidy up but understandable that they may offer to leave extra boxes of tiles or perhaps extra lats of wood that have been paid for. For removed old carpet/tiles/wooden flooring they will offer to dispose but a private fitter is unlikely to.

im only talking about new stuff. theold flooring would be the customers or be charged extra to take it away

the_pen_turner

Owryan wrote: »

Ok, this is only my personal experience of the carpet game. When someone goes into a shop and asks for a specific measurement of carpet a reputable salesperson will explain that they allow a few inches for a margin of error. If the customer is happy with this they will pay for all the carpet, including the extra bit. Therefore it is all theirs. I ve turned up at houses where the customer supplied the measurement and found they were out by an inch or 2.

I have never fitted carpet where it was sold to the precise room measurement.

If you pay for it you own it. Next time i get a pizza delivered im going to tell the delivery guy to take back the box, after all i only ordered and paid for the pizza itself.

As for carpet fitters leaving a mess, we always cleaned up. But why would we take someone elses rubbish?

You seem to believe that the client only pays for the bit that is fitted and the shop should be shoulder the cost of the cut offs, carpet/floor fitting isnt that straightforward.

the invoice to going to cover all the waste and disposal of it but it is still the companies responsibility to take it away if they supplied it

Owryan

the_pen_turner wrote: »

the invoice to going to cover all the waste and disposal of it but it is still the companies responsibility to take it away if they supplied it

Sigh, Sorry but you obviously have more experience of this than me. I never saw an invoice saying i would take away a customers waste, larger firms might offer to do so but ive never come across them.

Shops/suppliers only provide what the client paid for ie it was supplied at the clients instruction, They didnt turn up with 12ftx20ft to do a room half that size.

I know some shops will offer to turn larger pieces into mats.

There seems to be an unreasonable expectation on what handymen will/will not do. Thank god im out of it now.

K.Flyer

I think the big problem here is "presumption".
If you are contracting anyone to do work for you that will result in waste material, you should never presume how it will be dealt with.
You should always ask and be clear about your expectations regarding waste material from a job, its that easy.
If its big or bulky and requires a skip or being brought to a civic dump or recycle centre, expect the cost for that to be built into the price quotation.