Apple Pay now available in Ireland

Sad Professor

Yes, another Apple Pay thread, but for good reason this time:

Android Pay launched in Ireland today - for AIB and KBC customers anyway. Will this give Apple, and whichever banks are holding out, the push they need?

Adrian Wreckler suggests it might still be a while:

The move makes Android Pay the first phone payment system in Ireland. Apple was thought to be preparing the introduction of Apple Pay into the Irish market by the start of 2017, but this now looks unlikely.

TinCool

ApplePay is great. I use it all the time (living in the UK). Looking forward to getting the apple watch at christmas and using that instead rather than whipping out the old phone.

murpho999

If Android can now work, I don't see any reason for Apple Pay not to apart from negotiations over fees.

Razor Russ

Adrian Wreckler suggests it might still be a while:[/QUOTE]

Is he privey to inside info from Apple or does he think that it will be delayed because of the introduction of Google Pay. I would have thought that todays news would have increased the likelihood of Apple Pay coming sooner rather than later

miralize

Doesn't Apple usually require a software update to enable features in new countries? I have to assume that they cant enable that sort of feature OTA without being user initiated. Maybe I'm wrong on this

I'd guess that if it were to come, it would probably come with 10.3 update, the X.3 update last year was in March. 10.2 looks like its coming out soon, so it were to come in the nearish future, probably 10.3, or iOS 11, but hopefully not.

Razor Russ

miralize wrote: »

Doesn't Apple usually require a software update to enable features in new countries? I have to assume that they cant enable that sort of feature OTA without being user initiated. Maybe I'm wrong on this

I'd guess that if it were to come, it would probably come with 10.3 update, the X.3 update last year was in March. 10.2 looks like its coming out soon, so it were to come in the nearish future, probably 10.3, or iOS 11, but hopefully not.

That certainly used to be the case because it would be mentioned in the iOS updates. Spain got Apple Pay last week without an update. There must be some hidden feature in iOS 10 that allows them to update the list of countries to enable Apple Pay without issuing a point update for iOS

Sad Professor

Razor Russ wrote: »

Is he privey to inside info from Apple or does he think that it will be delayed because of the introduction of Google Pay. I would have thought that todays news would have increased the likelihood of Apple Pay coming sooner rather than later

He suggested on twitter it might be closer to sooner, but I don't think he knows either way.

murpho999

Sad Professor wrote: »

He suggested on twitter it might be closer to sooner, but I don't think he knows either way.

Of course he doesn't know. Why would he?

Sad Professor

murpho999 wrote: »

Of course he doesn't know. Why would he?

Apple Pay launches in most other countries were signposted in the media up to several months in advance.

GreenFolder2

Pushing me over to Android! I'm really starting to wonder what's iOS offering that makes it worth my while staying.

awec

I am pretty sure it would start leaking once the banks start working to enable it for their customers, which would presumably be months before the announcement date.

arch_stanton

awec wrote: »

I am pretty sure it would start leaking once the banks start working to enable it for their customers, which would presumably be months before the announcement date.

Not necessarily. While American Express was announced for Spain ages ago, the inclusion of the countries biggest bank, Banco Santander, didn't leak until the day before launch. Hopefully now that Aib have android pay, customer demand will push someone to go with Apple Pay.

murpho999

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

Pushing me over to Android! I'm really starting to wonder what's iOS offering that makes it worth my while staying.

Really don't so how it's such a big issue to make you change phone when you know it will eventually come to iOS.

So much prefer the look of iPhones and the iOS experience, having used both platforms!

Creamy Goodness

murpho999 wrote: »

Of course he doesn't know. Why would he?

He's one of two Irish journalists that Apple invite to their events, while yes he most likely doesn't know, it's possible he'd know more than others.

miralize wrote: »

Doesn't Apple usually require a software update to enable features in new countries? I have to assume that they cant enable that sort of feature OTA without being user initiated. Maybe I'm wrong on this

Apple launched Apple Pay in Spain last week, there was no software update, there is however a silent update to allow Apple Wallet to check their servers to display the UI in your region however.

murpho999 wrote: »

If Android can now work, I don't see any reason for Apple Pay not to apart from negotiations over fees.

This is the reason it hasn't launched here, you'll see with the launch of Android pay which banks were being dicks about it. I'd guess Apple would want to launch with at least 3 banks here the big one missing from Android Pay is the stickler.

BigMoose

My 3 Ireland iphone works with apple pay with my UK card... no software update needed.

GreenFolder2

murpho999 wrote: »

Really don't so how it's such a big issue to make you change phone when you know it will eventually come to iOS.

So much prefer the look of iPhones and the iOS experience, having used both platforms!

It's an extremely useful feature that keeps your debit card number away from potential skimmers and is genuinely very useful.

I'm due to upgrade my work phone so I may jump ship.

I don't really have any great loyalty to Apple. If they offer a compelling product, great. If they don't, I'll look elsewhere.

LeeroyJ.

It's a case of them wanting to work with Irish Banks. Seeing as we still don't have an Apple Shop in the republic I don't think it's very likely we will see Apple Pay soon. My guess is they don't see very much potential outside of Dublin meaning they would rather invest in the likes of Germany and France first.

Android Pay is a different Story as Googles Dublin Operations is massive - so likely there are ties and connections to the Irish banks, in comparison Apples Operation is rather small and based in cork.

partyguinness

I have Apple Pay on my phone and used once just out of curiosity in Costa (live in UK).

Not particularly bothered as it is just as easy to use Contactless on the debit card plus I get 5% cashback every month each time I use it.

Doodah7

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

Android Pay is a different Story as Googles Dublin Operations is massive - so likely there are ties and connections to the Irish banks, in comparison Apples Operation is rather small and based in cork.

Such rubbish!!! Apple's operation is rather small??? They employ over 4,000 people in Cork!!! Google have around 3,000...

murpho999

LeeroyJ. wrote: »

It's a case of them wanting to work with Irish Banks. Seeing as we still don't have an Apple Shop in the republic I don't think it's very likely we will see Apple Pay soon. My guess is they don't see very much potential outside of Dublin meaning they would rather invest in the likes of Germany and France first.

Android Pay is a different Story as Googles Dublin Operations is massive - so likely there are ties and connections to the Irish banks, in comparison Apples Operation is rather small and based in cork.

So much wrong with this post. Apart from the number of employees as already pointed out.

You don't seem to understand business whatsoever.
Not having an Apple store here is for other reasons and nothing to do with Apple Pay not being here yet.
Their stores are only located in 20 countries; to follow your logic then no Apple products would be available here at all.

Also, Apple Pay is only in 13 countries and will eventually come here as negotiations with banks complete.

As Apple routes so much revenues through Ireland (have you heard of the €13bn tax case?) then you can be sure that Apple definitely have relationships with banks here and those banks would love to deal with Apple Pay as it will benefit their business.

GreenFolder2

I'd say you'll see Apple Pay and probably Samsung Pay launch very rapidly now that Google has taken the initiative.

There's a relatively small number of retail banks here, and it's most likely Apple didn't offer something lucrative enough to them.

zetalambda

tallpaul wrote: »

Such rubbish!!! Apple's operation is rather small??? They employ over 4,000 people in Cork!!! Google have around 3,000...

Apple currently employ 5,500 in Cork with another 1,000 jobs being added in the next year. That's more than double Googles work force here.

GreenFolder2

Mr.S wrote: »

What's the difference between Samsung Pay and Android Pay?

Android pay is a Google service available to any non-rooted, modern Android device with NFC and access to the Google Play store.

Samsung Pay is a competing service only available on Samsung devices.

newacc2015

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

It's an extremely useful feature that keeps your debit card number away from potential skimmers and is genuinely very useful.

Independent research companies have noticed the use of Apple pay by American consumers is declining for the last 12 months. It might be useful, but most see it as a novelty that is wearing off

OldMrBrennan83

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GreenFolder2

Patww79 wrote: »

Samsung Pay can work on machines with a strip reader too, which is a lot more useful in the US. Their one also works on wearables like Apples does, Android Pay doesn't.

Stipe readers are totally irrelevant in this market and will be in the USA very soon. That approach is incredibly insecure.

OldMrBrennan83

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GreenFolder2

Patww79 wrote: »

I know but it's just an addition they have for terminals that need it. NFC payments still work the same on it too.

Not many of those in Europe though. NFC is very widespread.

OldMrBrennan83

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Creamy Goodness

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

Stipe readers are totally irrelevant in this market and will be in the USA very soon. That approach is incredibly insecure.

I don't think you realise the sheer scale of the US market. it takes years to move tech over. I'm over in the states every 8 weeks or so and the amount of card readers that can't take a chip and pin payment let alone a contactless payment is staggering.

The deadline was October 1st 2015 to move to EMV (Chip and pin) cards, many many many retailers didn't even hit this deadline, instead went with Chip and signature, which in reality it's no better than just swiping.

awec

US is very different to here, they have loads of very small banks. They won't change any time soon.

I've never seen a chip and pin in the US. The most advanced thing I have seen is those digital signature machines.

Creamy Goodness

Exactly just look at this list

https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT204916

there's 1620 banks on that list for the US. Yet their card machine rollout is abysmal.

And here we can only get two banks (seemingly purely on Android Pay rollout) interested.

awec

Yea I am pretty sure there are banks that only have one single branch. Very different to here.

Even cheques are still pretty widespread there among consumers (for things like paying rent IIRC). There are people who still get paid with a cheque! :eek:

Creamy Goodness

Work colleagues in the U.S. pay their electricity with checks (cheques), they can't understand when I say don't have to do anything to pay a bill :pac:

GreenFolder2

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

I don't think you realise the sheer scale of the US market. it takes years to move tech over. I'm over in the states every 8 weeks or so and the amount of card readers that can't take a chip and pin payment let alone a contactless payment is staggering.

The deadline was October 1st 2015 to move to EMV (Chip and pin) cards, many many many retailers didn't even hit this deadline, instead went with Chip and signature, which in reality it's no better than just swiping.

Of course I realise the scale of the US market. It's very similar to the scale and far less complex than the European market which managed to start the rollout of chip and pin 24 years ago in France in 1992!! Getting to the stage it was standardised as EMV and rolled out took the best part of 20 years.

European banking is just as fragmented (possibly more so) with roughly 9076 banks, most of which issue cards in the European Union. A percentage of them aren't in the Eurozone so use different currencies. There were also 27+ different national transactional systems and a ton of local debit cards when EMV came into being. Things like SEPA are only very recent.

The US used the "scale" argument too much as an excuse. It should be easier to roll out s technology change in a single, large, has inside market than in a highly complicated and fragmented one like Europe.

Chip and PIN seemed to suffer from not made here syndrome in the united states and US banks clearly don't care very much about fraud losses as they're passing them on in charges somewhere.

shanec1928

awec wrote: »

US is very different to here, they have loads of very small banks. They won't change any time soon.

I've never seen a chip and pin in the US. The most advanced thing I have seen is those digital signature machines.

They usually have chip and pin built in at the bottom of them

mad muffin

I'd be surprised if it ever came to Ireland. Bedside Siri and Apple Music what else have we gotten?

OldMrBrennan83

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eeloe

10 years of iphone and still no visual voicemail!

GreenFolder2

eeloe wrote: »

10 years of iphone and still no visual voicemail!

That's a networks thinking it's not worth spending money on issue rather than an Apple issue.

Atari Jaguar

shanec1928 wrote: »

They usually have chip and pin built in at the bottom of them

It's never used over there. It's signatures and swipes.

Creamy Goodness

eeloe wrote: »

10 years of iphone and still no visual voicemail!

That's a slightly different beast though. That required the telcos to buy physical hardware, test it, install it and release a carrier file. The number of people with iPhones that use voicemail vs the high cost of implementation meant it was never worth it.

Whereas Apple Pay is purely a software solution and in comparison isn't as difficult to set up as a bank. Also banks are finically realising (unlike telcos) they need to modernise themselves. Also we've got a high rate of contactless infrastructure already. It should just be a flick of a switch

Atari Jaguar

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

That's a slightly different beast though. That required the telcos to buy physical hardware, test it, install it and release a carrier file. The number of people with iPhones that use voicemail vs the high cost of implementation meant it was never worth it.

Whereas Apple Pay is purely a software solution and in comparison isn't as difficult to set up as a bank. Also banks are finically realising (unlike telcos) they need to modernise themselves. Also we've got a high rate of contactless infrastructure already. It should just be a flick of a switch

Our banks dragged their heels because they didn't want to pay apple what they were asking per transaction. Unless that's changed it won't be coming soon.

whiterebel

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

That's a slightly different beast though. That required the telcos to buy physical hardware, test it, install it and release a carrier file. The number of people with iPhones that use voicemail vs the high cost of implementation meant it was never worth it.

Whereas Apple Pay is purely a software solution and in comparison isn't as difficult to set up as a bank. Also banks are finically realising (unlike telcos) they need to modernise themselves. Also we've got a high rate of contactless infrastructure already. It should just be a flick of a switch

There an app that did it perfectly, I just can't remember the name of it. Started off free, and the.a paid version, AFAIR. couldn't use it with Meteor/Eir because they were too thick to make a small change in their settings that everyone else could do. Very handy being able to pick through the voicemails.

Creamy Goodness

I've just turned voicemail off:

If it was someone I know, they show up as a miss call.
If it was someone who I don't, if it's important enough they'll call back.

Life is too short for antiquated technology (voice mail) no matter how much you tart it up (visual voice mail).

I used visual voice mail when I lived in the States for a while, what I noticed was I was just able to clear the queue of spammers and cold called voice mails quicker. Turning it off meant I didn't have to clear the queue to get rid of the badge :pac:

GreenFolder2

Does anyone ever check voicemail anymore anyway?!

I have an outgoing message that asks people to send me a text. It's rare that I would actually check it. I'm more likely to just phone a missed call back without checking messages at all.

Hullomail does visual visual voicemail via an app for iOS or Android.

I can't see the networks really being all that bothered spending money on voicemail these days.

vinnycoyne

Patww79 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

In addition to the aforementioned Visual Voicemail and Apple Pay...

• TV shows (iTunes Store)
• New TV App
• Single sign-on for Apple TV
• Apple News

Sad Professor

vinnycoyne wrote: »

In addition to the aforementioned Visual Voicemail and Apple Pay...

• TV shows (iTunes Store)
• New TV App
• Single sign-on for Apple TV
• Apple News

In fairness, the TV app and the single sign-on are less than a few days old.

The lack of iTunes TV shows really annoys me. I don't know what's holding this back considering Netflix and MS have tv shows. Anyone have any insights?

mad muffin

Sad Professor wrote: »

In fairness, the TV app and the single sign-on are less than a few days old.

The lack of iTunes TV shows really annoys me. I don't know what's holding this back considering Netflix and MS have tv shows. Anyone have any insights?

The way I see it. Ireland is small fry and not worth Apples efforts. We get all the low hanging fruit. But that's about it. How many years did it take Irish Siri to arrive? We don't even have Siri for the Apple TV?

I don't see us getting Apple Pay if even for a second the Irish banks decide to play hard ball with Apple.

Dardania

Keep any eye on the likes of Revolut for Apple Pay - that's what I'm going to do as soon as they support it:
https://community.revolut.com/t/apple-pay-support/181/67

whiterebel

Sad Professor wrote: »

In fairness, the TV app and the single sign-on are less than a few days old.

The lack of iTunes TV shows really annoys me. I don't know what's holding this back considering Netflix and MS have tv shows. Anyone have any insights?

Netflix in Ireland is a pale comparison to the US version, in fairness.