Buying a house - advice on site survey engineers

angello90

Hi all,

I'm buying a house which is currently under construction. I contacted couple engineers asking for quotes. I quoted me 900/1100 + VAT.

These would include:
1. Inspection at current stage
2. Report on the quality to solicitor.
3. Inspection during the works (not sure how many, I assume one only)
4. Inspection of the documentation received by solicitor (maps, specs)
5. Site boundaries check
6. Snag list at completion

Can anyone tell me if 900 + VAT is a lot? Also...

I suppose main question, is there a point in getting an engineer to inspect the house throughout the works? I mean I am getting 10 years guarantee on the house. On the other hand it's a chance to make sure all is done up to some standards, right? Would site survey and snag list be sufficient? Over a grand is quite a lot. Wouldn't mind paying up to 500, but a grand? People I talked to about it said they've paid 300/400 for survey/snag list. That was last year, but surely prices wouldn't go up to exceed 500 for these two right?

Thanks

Metric Tensor

The prices seem reasonable OP. What you ate looking for is a higher standard than most - but exactly what I'd recommend if you asked me. I find many people to be quite short sighted in this regard - you sound conscientious... but unfortunately that costs!

P.S. The ten year guarantee will have so many provisos that it'll be close to useless in the vast majority of cases where problems arise! Don't rely on it.

Also: 300+VAT for a snag list is very cheap in my experience. I definitely wouldn't be able to do (a proper) one for that!

angello90

Thanks Metric Tensor. I am on the fence with this one to be honest. Cause in the broader scheme, I would like to take the opportunity while the house is under construction to catch any problems, since I assume many won't be visible once works are completed. Also spending 250k on the house, so it seems silly to be cheap when hiring an engineer, considering this could save me 1000s in the future. It may be costly, but it also may be well worth it.

In your experience, how worthy are the on site visits while house is under construction?

Gumbo

Are you buying in a large estate or are you building a one off dwelling?

Metric Tensor

angello90 wrote: »

In your experience, how worthy are the on site visits while house is under construction?

Firstly a declaration - as I'm an engineer who does these type of visits I am definitely going to have a one sided opinion!

Secondly - I'm going to assume we are talking about a house in a housing estate because if it's a one off build the situation will be as variable as the people and sites involved.

So with all that in mind - the visits can be very useful or extremely frustrating depending on the contractor/developer. No developer will fancy taking direction or advice from your engineer as they will have their own experts supervising and signing off the development and the buck will rest with them. This means you could have advice from your expert about minor issues and the developer may flatly refuse to address them and possibly rightly so because your engineer won't be signing off on the project.

However if something is majorly wrong and will be covered over having your expert see it gives you the opportunity to walk away if necessary. I discovered such an issue on a complex job before and I saved he client potentially hundreds of thousands - but said client lost their potential "dream house" in the process - so no-one really came out of it well. (I looked like a bad guy / tough guy too - when I was just doing my job!)

The introduction of BCARs should give you some solace even if someone doesn't inspect on your behalf during construction but if there are problems down the road who knows if this will be of much help.

Lastly - if this house is in an area of high demand the developer will be able to call the shots - he may not even "allow" you to inspect during construction.

Gumbo

Metric Tensor wrote: »

Firstly a declaration - as I'm an engineer who does these type of visits I am definitely going to have a one sided opinion!

Secondly - I'm going to assume we are talking about a house in a housing estate because if it's a one off build the situation will be as variable as the people and sites involved.

So with all that in mind - the visits can be very useful or extremely frustrating depending on the contractor/developer. No developer will fancy taking direction or advice from your engineer as they will have their own experts supervising and signing off the development and the buck will rest with them. This means you could have advice from your expert about minor issues and the developer may flatly refuse to address them and possibly rightly so because your engineer won't be signing off on the project.

However if something is majorly wrong and will be covered over having your expert see it gives you the opportunity to walk away if necessary. I discovered such an issue on a complex job before and I saved he client potentially hundreds of thousands - but said client lost their potential "dream house" in the process - so no-one really came out of it well. (I looked like a bad guy / tough guy too - when I was just doing my job!)

The introduction of BCARs should give you some solace even if someone doesn't inspect on your behalf during construction but if there are problems down the road who knows if this will be of much help.

Lastly - if this house is in an area of high demand the developer will be able to call the shots - he may not even "allow" you to inspect during construction.

MT, do you get much hassle from developers when a buyer in a large scheme wants their own inspections and site visits?

I know some builders/developers in Dublin that would flat out refuse independent inspections by a purchaser during the build.

Metric Tensor

kceire wrote: »

MT, do you get much hassle from developers when a buyer in a large scheme wants their own inspections and site visits?

Yes. A lot. Most of them don't like to see me coming and if I told them the sky was blue they'd tell me that their architect/engineer has carried out a thousands of designs that prove it's luminous pink.

I know some builders/developers in Dublin that would flat out refuse independent inspections by a purchaser during the build.

Yup. I haven't done any during construction surveys in Dublin and I would expect to be flatly refused because it's a seller's market and in most cases the builder owns the house and site during construction. I have found that smaller and more rural developments seem to be run on a less confrontational approach.

To be fair though I'm only talking about a handful of cases in total because very few clients (purchasing in a new estate) approach me until snag list time.

Gumbo

Metric Tensor wrote: »

Yes. A lot. Most of them don't like to see me coming and if I told them the sky was blue they'd tell me that their architect/engineer has carried out a thousands of designs that prove it's luminous pink.



Yup. I haven't done any during construction surveys in Dublin and I would expect to be flatly refused because it's a seller's market and in most cases the builder owns the house and site during construction. I have found that smaller and more rural developments seem to be run on a less confrontational approach.

To be fair though I'm only talking about a handful of cases in total because very few clients (purchasing in a new estate) approach me until snag list time.

I agree. I've heard it's hard enough for council staff to get into Dublin sites for inspections!

angello90

I had a think about it and decided to go with the quote. As you said it yourself in the broader scheme of things, it is worth the money. Plus there is always a chance, they won't be allowed to the site for inspection, which is balls, but there is nothing I can do about it.

The house is in fact in an development estate, it's a semi-detached house, so I assume houses should be up to a standard. Still, it's better to be safe then sorry.

I understand why you are biased, it makes perfect sense. Although this place seems like a place to get "unbiased" or "semi biased" opinion on that matter.

Thanks a mil MT!

The Princess Bride

angello90 wrote: »

The house is in fact in an development estate, it's a semi-detached house, so I assumehouses should be up to a standard. Still, it's better to be safe then sorry.

As someone who last year bought my 3rd and hopefully last ever home, let me give you this piece of advice.
Never, ever assume anything.
As one of the most expensive items you'll ever purchase it's worth knowing what you're buying and how to make life easier in the long run.

Best of luck.

Gumbo

angello90 wrote: »

I had a think about it and decided to go with the quote. As you said it yourself in the broader scheme of things, it is worth the money. Plus there is always a chance, they won't be allowed to the site for inspection, which is balls, but there is nothing I can do about it.

The house is in fact in an development estate, it's a semi-detached house, so I assume houses should be up to a standard. Still, it's better to be safe then sorry.

I understand why you are biased, it makes perfect sense. Although this place seems like a place to get "unbiased" or "semi biased" opinion on that matter.

Thanks a mil MT!

Please keep us updated on how he gets on.
Is the estate in Dublin?

Metric Tensor

I'd love to hear how it goes too. I think it's something a lot more people should do but the logistics of it are quite tough.

Take your Engineer's advice but try not to get frustrated when all you get is "No" in response. Pick your "battles"

angello90

The Princess Bride wrote: »

As someone who last year bought my 3rd and hopefully last ever home, let me give you this piece of advice.
Never, ever assume anything.
As one of the most expensive items you'll ever purchase it's worth knowing what you're buying and how to make life easier in the long run.

Best of luck.

I am well aware that assumption is a mother of all feck ups. I am taking this stand in case if they refuse the inspection from external engineer. As you said yourself, it is probably the most expensive item I'll every buy (I sure hope there would be more expensive things I'll buy ), so I won't spare an additional grand on it.

kceire wrote: »

Please keep us updated on how he gets on.
Is the estate in Dublin?

I''ll keep ye updated. Probably nothing will happen from now until New Years.
The estate is in South Cork, won't give more details just in case.

Thanks for all the help and advises guys! Much appreciated.

angello90

Ok so a quick update on the matter. I contacted the constructor and they had no problem with me hiring a third party consultant to do some survey work while the construction is in progress. In fact they we're quite welcoming of that idea, so that shows I am dealing with fair company, at least that's what I think.

When I get a report, I'll let you know if they have found any discrepancies between documentation, and what is really out there.