Qualifying in Winter

Senna

Our club have got the course measured from the winter tees for the first time, so they have said qualifying will continue throughout winter (or for as long as it can).
I'm wondering what can happen and it still be qualifying.
Do bunkers need to be in play?
What about a temp green short of the normal one?
Dropping off fairway?

Anything else I'm not thinking of?

martinkop

AFAIK, for comps to be deemed qualifying, the only relief allowed is preferred lies (clean and place on fairway within 6")from Oct 1 to April 30. Some bunkers can be GUR but not all.
Don;t think dropping off fairways can still be qualifying?

Hoof Hearted2

Senna wrote: »

Our club have got the course measured from the winter tees for the first time, so they have said qualifying will continue throughout winter (or for as long as it can).
I'm wondering what can happen and it still be qualifying.
Do bunkers need to be in play?
What about a temp green short of the normal one?
Dropping off fairway?

Anything else I'm not thinking of?

Most clubs have 3 or 4 sets of tees, there is a SSS rating for each set of tees, e.g in our club the SSS off the blues (longest) is 73, it's 72 off the whites and 70 off the yellows, that equates to 36pts, 37pts and 39pts.
It's a GUI/CONGU condition that all competitions must be qualifying whenever possible.
Competitions can be qualifying with winter rules, i.e. lift clean and place on the fairway and drop a plugged ball only in the rough, a certain amount of bunkers must be in play for a competition to be qualifying and permission must be sought from your local GUI branch regarding the amount of bunkers in play/not in play.
When fairways are out of play, i.e. dropping off to the side of fairway/semi rough, that would deem the competition non qualifying.
I'm not sure about situation regarding "temp greens", but I would imagine having temp greens in play would also deem a competition to be non-qualifying.

Senna

Interesting, last weekends comp you could play off a mat on the fairway or drop into semi. It was still qualifying.

Webbs

Senna wrote: »

Interesting, last weekends comp you could play off a mat on the fairway or drop into semi. It was still qualifying.

I was under impression that fairway mats were Ok but dropping in semi made it non qualifying. Took this from CONGU but not sure how up to date it is

Dec.1(d) Status of a competition when competitors are required to lift a ball from the fairway and place in semi-rough
Q. Would the introduction of a Local Rule permitting lifting the ball from the fairway and dropping into the semi-rough (first cut), in order to protect the fairway, render the competition Non Qualifying?

A. Yes, as such a procedure is not within the Rules of Golf, the competition is Non-Qualifying. To make it a Qualifying Competition, an alternative solution to fairway protection such as the use of preferred lies or fairway mats is required

Montgolfier

I don't know why the GUI can't make qualifying year round regardless of placing. Is it really that big of an advantage when conditions are cold and soft anyway? I don't see scores spiking in winter play either if anything the css is 34pts to 35pts in summer it's normally 36.

charlieIRL

Montgolfier wrote: »

I don't know why the GUI can't make qualifying year round regardless of placing. Is it really that big of an advantage when conditions are cold and soft anyway? I don't see scores spiking in winter play either if anything the css is 34pts to 35pts in summer it's normally 36.

I'd like to be a member of your club!!
Once placing comes in here, winning scores on a Sunday can hit mid 40's - and that's on temp greens!!!:mad::mad:

Then again, if it was counting all year round would it get rid of the lads minding handicaps for winter events??

Russman

Montgolfier wrote: »

I don't know why the GUI can't make qualifying year round regardless of placing. Is it really that big of an advantage when conditions are cold and soft anyway? I don't see scores spiking in winter play either if anything the css is 34pts to 35pts in summer it's normally 36.

I'd say it's very much course specific though. Last week we had a 30pts for 12 holes and a few 29pts the following day for a 13 holes comp. I reckon placing everywhere made/makes a huge difference. In summertime you'd almost always get something with 36/37 pts. Our place often gets too wet in winter for fairways only placing.

Montgolfier

charlieIRL wrote: »

I'd like to be a member of your club!!
Once placing comes in here, winning scores on a Sunday can hit mid 40's - and that's on temp greens!!!:mad::mad:

Then again, if it was counting all year round would it get rid of the lads minding handicaps for winter events??

Well I'm not talking winning scores just CSS numbers.
It would take away the minding element but maybe it would affect scratch players handicaps more.

Montgolfier

Russman wrote: »

I'd say it's very much course specific though. Last week we had a 30pts for 12 holes and a few 29pts the following day for a 13 holes comp. I reckon placing everywhere made/makes a huge difference. In summertime you'd almost always get something with 36/37 pts. Our place often gets too wet in winter for fairways only placing.

That scoring sounds like our long handicap competition regularly shooting 28 to 29 pts for 11 holes. It's says more about the players than anything else.

Russman

Montgolfier wrote: »

That scoring sounds like our long handicap competition regularly shooting 28 to 29 pts for 11 holes. It's says more about the players than anything else.

Agreed, up to a point. But placing everywhere makes a massive difference. Basically makes the whole course the fairway. Being in 3 inch rough and dead in normal conditions, as opposed to being able to place and maybe even get a driver at it, is huge. Especially if you have a shot or two on the hole. IMHO winter golf under those rules shouldn't be taken as any kind of barometer of performance.

Montgolfier

Russman wrote: »

Agreed, up to a point. But placing everywhere makes a massive difference. Basically makes the whole course the fairway. Being in 3 inch rough and dead in normal conditions, as opposed to being able to place and maybe even get a driver at it, is huge. Especially if you have a shot or two on the hole. IMHO winter golf under those rules shouldn't be taken as any kind of barometer of performance.

Not too many courses with 3 inches of rough maybe in the Irish close. A lot of suggestions to speed up the game is to eliminate the rough. If you have a club with lads looking for shots in order to enjoy the game this would make a lot of sense.

Russman

Montgolfier wrote: »

Not too many courses with 3 inches of rough maybe in the Irish close. A lot of suggestions to speed up the game is to eliminate the rough. If you have a club with lads looking for shots in order to enjoy the game this would make a lot of sense.

Certainly my own course has rough that long, or close enough, in lots of spots. But whether it's two inches or three inches, being able to place and advance the ball up close to the green as opposed to chipping out or laying up is IMO a huge advantage.

Donal55

Can a 12 hole comp be qualifying?

Hoof Hearted2

Donal55 wrote: »

Can a 12 hole comp be qualifying?

No, only a 9 or 18 hole comp can be be qualifying, although in saying that if part of the 12 hole comp includes holes 1-9 or holes 10-18 inclusive, then that portion could be used for a 9 hole qualifying as there is a CSS formula for 9 hole comps, but you would have to play those holes first e.g. start on the 1st hole and play the full front nine, then to make up the 12 holes you could play any other 3 hole combination, but you couldn't play them in reverse, e.g. play holes 10, 11 and 18 first and then play the full front nine.
Hope that makes sense.

Donal55

Hoof Hearted2 wrote: »

No, only a 9 or 18 hole comp can be be qualifying, although in saying that if part of the 12 hole comp includes holes 1-9 or holes 10-18 inclusive, then that portion could be used for a 9 hole qualifying as there is a CSS formula for 9 hole comps, but you would have to play those holes first e.g. start on the 1st hole and play the full front nine, then to make up the 12 holes you could play any other 3 hole combination, but you couldn't play them in reverse, e.g. play holes 10, 11 and 18 first and then play the full front nine.
Hope that makes sense.

100%. Thanks a lot.