Should the GAA drop the national anthem and flag to appease unionists?

Today Aogán Ó Fearghaíl stated that, “In the future if there are new agreements and new arrangements we’d be open-minded about things like flags and anthems – but not in advance of agreements.”

Citing Brexit as creating the dimensions for possible ‘political realignments on the island of Ireland’ he went on to say that he accepted the anthem, Amhrán na bhFiann and the Tri-Colour created more difficulty at home for the unionist community and that the symbols of the nation could be removed from display.

What are your thoughts on this? Yay or nay?

ProudDUB

Oh HELL to the no !

(That would be a nay.)

The Lost Sheep

ProudDUB wrote: »

Oh HELL to the no !

(That would be a nay.)

But does anthem have to be played prior to every single game? Why not reduce it to semis, finals and a certain number of games.

Realt Dearg Sec

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

But does anthem have to be played prior to every single game? Why not reduce it to semis, finals and a certain number of games.

Nothing to do with the political symbolism, which doesn't interest me much, but I would be very, very much in favour of this. It's far too frequent.

Also, I think most people would agree these tuneless warblers who tend to be drafted in to sing at the county finals and such things, need to go. I've often found myself in hysterics at matches when someone who is clearly related to a county board member with delusions of grandeur launches into the anthem an octave too low and proceeds to warble through it like a broken tape recorder.

Prop Joe

The national anthem before games is like the intro to the game it creates a buzz...The league final between Kerry & Dublin this year the anthem wasn't played before hand and it felt odd.I would be one for keeping it and also the flag as our games are a huge part of our identity.

It won't matter anyway because WHEN united Ireland becomes a reality we will have a new flag & anthem

BonnieSituation

This is a solution to a problem that diesnt exist.

I would be resolutely against dropping of either.

That being said if it was part of a compromise that brought us reunification then I would reconsider. Til then though, let's get a raft of data to prove that it's alienating a significant proportion of unionists and stopping them playing matches and joining clubs.
(Which don't have anthems sure beforehand unless at big games)

I'm tired of these little gestures for these mythical unionists. Can we have bit in return please? Being the bigger man us tiring.

---

I've over the last couple of years introduced a unionist friend to GAA and he's been on the tour and to a few games. Even has his Antrim jersey. Plus got his passport. Chip chippety

Vunderground

I think the constant playing of the National Anthem makes it less special.

At this stage when I flush the loo in Croke Park I imagine it will start playing.

ArmaniJeanss

A compromise might be to drop it from TV coverage except before the biggest games at the end of the championship season.
Absolutely no reason why studio discussion has to stop for the anthem or they can even use it as the opportunity for the prematch ad break if they prefer. At the moment they have to do this ad break early enough to get back to the ground for the anthem.
Might also discourage the selection of 'tuneless warblers' as referred to above.

FWIW this is done in NFL (USA) where the anthem is played before every game but not usually televised by the networks.

seligehgit

Vunderground wrote: »

I think the constant playing of the National Anthem makes it less special.

At this stage when I flush the loo in Croke Park I imagine it will start playing.

TBH I'd be of the polar opposite opinion,for me our national anthem is very,very special and it is something to be very proud of.It is not made any the less the so by it's frequent playing.It always sets up the contest nicely atmosphere wise IMO,our version of the haka.

It's the hamfisted attempts by individuals to sing it or the rubbish acoustics/loudspeakers that oftentimes make a mockery of the playing of same.It would certainly help if a greater amount of GAA supporters knew the words to it,were sufficiently interested,engaged in same.I can never understand why supporters do not pay it more respect by allowing the complete playing of same.

Obviously it's a totally different scenario in a highly aspirational united Ireland where we seek to find common cause with our unionist brethren.

Bonniedog

Firstly, there is never going to be a united Ireland.

Secondly, prods are never going to be GAA people anyway, so keep the anthem and flag.


And let them do their own thing.

Furthermore, GAA officials should stop trying to solve the country's political problems, and bending over backwards to accommodate people who hate us anyway.

The Lost Sheep

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

Nothing to do with the political symbolism, which doesn't interest me much, but I would be very, very much in favour of this. It's far too frequent.

Also, I think most people would agree these tuneless warblers who tend to be drafted in to sing at the county finals and such things, need to go. I've often found myself in hysterics at matches when someone who is clearly related to a county board member with delusions of grandeur launches into the anthem an octave too low and proceeds to warble through it like a broken tape recorder.

This!!!!

Prop Joe wrote: »

The national anthem before games is like the intro to the game it creates a buzz...The league final between Kerry & Dublin this year the anthem wasn't played before hand and it felt odd.I would be one for keeping it and also the flag as our games are a huge part of our identity.

It won't matter anyway because WHEN united Ireland becomes a reality we will have a new flag & anthem

Does it really create a buzz? Sure the anthem isn't even respected fully with people roaring before it finishes.
As for your last sentence...:pac:

seligehgit wrote: »

TBH I'd be of the polar opposite opinion,for me our national anthem is very,very special and it is something to be very proud of.It is not made any the less the so by it's frequent playing.It always sets up the contest nicely atmosphere wise IMO,our version of the haka.

It's the hamfisted attempts by individuals to sing it or the rubbish acoustics/loudspeakers that oftentimes make a mockery of the playing of same.It would certainly help if a greater amount of GAA supporters knew the words to it,were sufficiently interested,engaged in same.I can never understand why supporters do not pay it more respect by allowing the complete playing of same.

Obviously it's a totally different scenario in a highly aspirational united Ireland where we seek to find common cause with our unionist brethren.

Anthem is something to be proud of but that doesn't mean it needs to be played for every single game. It would be respected more and is better if played at just a select type of game like semis/finals/playoffs.

blue note

I think they should be dropped and I think we should look at the naming of GAA clubs while we're at it. It's an all Ireland organisation and the truth is that the protestant / unionist population up north aren't really welcome to join. They can join if they want, but they regard the tricolour as the flag of a foreign nation, amhran na bhfiann as the anthem of a foreign nation and some of the people the clubs are named after as terrorists who attacked their ancestors. These are all political opinions really, but I don't think politics should come into the organisation and therefore they should be dropped.

Put it this way - how many here would join Cromwell FC, who play God Save the Queen before games and fly a tricolour? I'd like the GAA to be an all inclusive organisation and it simply isn't up north at the moment. Dropping the flag and tricolour would be a start and it would be a long long process, but one that has to start sometime.

Incidentally, I think I'd miss them over the first couple of years, then I'd forget about them. Maybe they could replace the national anthem with the Sunday Game theme tune to soften the blow.

Bonniedog

Mother of Jaysus blue note.!

Read some history man!

blue note

Bonniedog wrote: »

Mother of Jaysus blue note.!

Read some history man!

I'm not sure what to mean. That the flag is supposed to represent them too? Well it doesn't, simple as that.

DoctaDee

You could drop all symbolism but it still won't dispel the notion amongst those you're acquiescing to that GAA is a nationalist game, the same as my uneducated notion is that Rugby is a protestant game in the 6 counties. The anthem is trotted out a bit too often for my liking tbf

Bonniedog

blue note wrote: »

I'm not sure what to mean. That the flag is supposed to represent them too? Well it doesn't, simple as that.

Well it doesn't. So what do we do? Fly union jack? Protestants have no interest in GAA so leave them at it.

Don't recall all these people making statements when GAA members and supporters were being murdered by loyalists and RUC and British army.

blue note

Bonniedog wrote: »

Well it doesn't. So what do we do? Fly union jack? Protestants have no interest in GAA so leave them at it.

Don't recall all these people making statements when GAA members and supporters were being murdered by loyalists and RUC and British army.

Don't have a flag or have a gaa flag. Why do we need to have a national one? Flags and anthems are one of the reasons they have zero interest in gaa. In fact it's association with nationalism is basically the reason none of that community up north play gaa.

And protestant children I can assure you are not responsible for murders of gaa members. Why exclude them? Take away the associations with nationalism from the organisation, they've nothing to do with the games now anyway.

Bonniedog

Reason they don't have any interest is that they are a separate ethnic group that identifies with Britain, not Ireland.

Which is their own business. That's not going to change. They don't water down their traditions so why should we?

Prop Joe

Bonniedog wrote: »

Reason they don't have any interest is that they are a separate ethnic group that identifies with Britain, not Ireland.

Which is their own business. That's not going to change. They don't water down their traditions so why should we?

We should also get rid of TG4 covering GAA because the Irish Language could be seen as a threat to peace on this island :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Huntergonzo

Neither the anthem nor the Irish flag interest me in the slightest when I go to Gaa games, I go because I love the sports, not to hear one particular song (which is a poor song anyway and often played awfully on top of that) nor to see one particular flag.

Enjoy the games folks, they're genuinely great, but try not to get too hung up on the sideshows.

Prop Joe

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Neither the anthem nor the Irish flag interest me in the slightest when I go to Gaa games, I go because I love the sports, not to hear one particular song (which is a poor song anyway and often played awfully on top of that) nor to see one particular flag.

Enjoy the games folks, they're genuinely great, but try not to get too hung up on the sideshows.

Exactly,If the unionist community wanted to play GAA this wouldn't bother them either

Huntergonzo

Prop Joe wrote: »

Exactly,If the unionist community wanted to play GAA this wouldn't bother them either

Ye probably, I couldn't give a monkeys about Unionist feelings towards that Gaa, they tend to ignore 2 great sports simply because they're Irish, that's beyond stupid from my point of view.

I'm talking about my own feelings (or lack thereof) towards the anthem and flag at Gaa matches. For me they're not necessary and they don't add anything.

OldMrBrennan83

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bazelbrush

Absolutely not. It's that simple. Case closed !

OldMrBrennan83

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Bonniedog

Anthem is fundamental part of big games.

Fair enough, don't play it for every league and club game, but we shouldn't be apologising for our history and tradition.

People died on or leaving GAA grounds. One of which in Crossmaglen was occupied by British army for 30 years. Most renown when we played Tipp here in 1920. there were Armagh supporters murdered by UDR coming back from AI final; Aidan MacAnespie killed by British army on way to match, and many more.


People are far too quick to roll over if you ask me.

Realt Dearg Sec

Patww79 wrote: »

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So you would be "hopeful" that the games would completely die off just over a tantrum about some flags and songs?

For me hurling is a far more vital part of the fabric of my home community, far more woven into the fabric of the identity of the place, than the tricolour or the song could ever conceivably be. I would hope that it would be strong enough to outlive them as well, and I certainly would never hope for the death of the sport just because of petty political decision-making by the heads of the GAA, which have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with my experience of the sport and its place in my life and that of my community.

But that's just me.

OldMrBrennan83

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Realt Dearg Sec

Patww79 wrote: »

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How would it being "gone" be different to it being "destroyed"?

That aside, I understand the anxiety this creates for some people, I'm not trying to dismiss it, but...

To me playing hurling has absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with waving flags or singing nationalist songs. If people are into it, grand, I understand the historical links with nationalism and cultural resistance. It's just that for me hurling has evolved into an expression of local identity, and that is more important to me than protecting national symbols. I think hurling shouldn't tie itself to the fate of such things because, in my experience, one has nothing to do with the other. I don't listen to the national anthem every time I read a poem by Yeats, or every time I speak in Irish with my daughter. I'm not sure why hurling needs to be tied to this song either.

Also, hurling shouldn't be tied to football...Any chance we could get rid of the flag, the anthem, and football?:D

OldMrBrennan83

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Realt Dearg Sec

Patww79 wrote: »

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So Them V Us forever, permanent separation and mistrust for its own sake and never the twain shall meet as a rule? I'm not really into the debate as such, but that's a depressing approach to go into it with no matter how you look at it. No thanks.

Huntergonzo

Bonniedog wrote: »

Anthem is fundamental part of big games.

Fair enough, don't play it for every league and club game, but we shouldn't be apologising for our history and tradition.

People died on or leaving GAA grounds. One of which in Crossmaglen was occupied by British army for 30 years. Most renown when we played Tipp here in 1920. there were Armagh supporters murdered by UDR coming back from AI final; Aidan MacAnespie killed by British army on way to match, and many more.


People are far too quick to roll over if you ask me.

That's all very much appealing to people's emotions though Bonniedog, honestly no disrespect to those who died but they shouldn't be used as some sort of trump card for those who support the retention of the flag and anthem either.

In spite of all the terror and murders the games live on, they didn't win and no flag or anthem are necessary to emphasise that point.

Let's try to remain rational rather than emotional.

KingBrian2

The GAA is too much connected with the anthem and the flag. They produced all the Home Rulers & Sinn Féiners who fought for Irish freedom. The GAA also was extremely important to the PIRA in their conflict with the Unionists. So this sport and Irish culture are interwoven more than any other sport in the country.

KingBrian2

Huntergonzo wrote: »

That's all very much appealing to people's emotions though Bonniedog, honestly no disrespect to those who died but they shouldn't be used as some sort of trump card for those who support the retention of the flag and anthem either.

In spite of all the terror and murders the games live on, they didn't win and no flag or anthem are necessary to emphasise that point.

Let's try to remain rational rather than emotional.

What do you mean they didn't win? We might not have received a 32 county Socialist Republic. That did not stop up from getting the Brits to treat us as equals, granting us powers that were very much greatly desired elsewhere on the European continent.

OldMrBrennan83

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Dick phelan

It's the GAA ie (Gaelic Athletics Association) If you have a problem with the Irish anthem or flag your not going to want to be part of the GAA. Stupid idea, the anthem creates an atmosphere at the games this suggestion goes totally against the ethos of the association it won't happen imo.

Huntergonzo

KingBrian2 wrote: »

What do you mean they didn't win? We might not have received a 32 county Socialist Republic. That did not stop up from getting the Brits to treat us as equals, granting us powers that were very much greatly desired elsewhere on the European continent.

Ye I think you might have took me up wrong there, "they didn't win" = as in Loyalist terrorists didn't manage to stop our games up north, the games live on.

KingBrian2

Huntergonzo wrote: »

Ye I think you might have took me up wrong there, "they didn't win" = as in Loyalist terrorists didn't manage to stop our games up north, the games live on.

Oh righty oh. Sorry about that there.:o

Realt Dearg Sec

Dick phelan wrote: »

It's the GAA ie (Gaelic Athletics Association) If you have a problem with the Irish anthem or flag your not going to want to be part of the GAA. Stupid idea, the anthem creates an atmosphere at the games this suggestion goes totally against the ethos of the association it won't happen imo.

The usage of the term "Gaelic" is very problematic in terms of Irish nationalism. It was appropriated by the Irish Ireland movement to move away from the more inclusive, nebulous "Celtic", thereby excluding Protestants or English people from its purview. But there's nothing intrinsically meaningful about the term "Gaelic" or any unbreakable connection between it and the flag (while we're on the topic of the flag, it's whole meaning is about reconciling the two communities, rather than perpetuating their separation as "another country", but it's a separate point). For me the use of the word "Gaelic" in the name of the association is not something I'm especially fond of for that reason, it's meaning is quite malleable and politicised anyway. More importantly, the sport predates the association by many thousands of years, and even its modern incarnation owes a huge amount to unionists in Trinity College. The GAA administers the sport now, but the sport is much, much bigger than it (to make one obvious point, its history links us with the people of Scotland already), and its history dwarfs it. The sport, in other words, transcends the historically very narrow moment that gave rise to the GAA.

That is also to set aside that, for me, the GAA is a great organisation precisely because it has demonstrated its ability to evolve and change throughout its history.

As for the anthem creating an atmosphere, if you like an atmosphere of people fiddling with their phones while others half-heartedly mumble the words wrongly, then yeah, it creates a spectacular atmosphere. But it's not one that does anything for me.

Huntergonzo

KingBrian2 wrote: »

Oh righty oh. Sorry about that there.:o

No bother lad.

ShamoBuc

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

As for the anthem creating an atmosphere, if you like an atmosphere of people fiddling with their phones while others half-heartedly mumble the words wrongly, then yeah, it creates a spectacular atmosphere. But it's not one that does anything for me.

The absolute vast majority of people don't fiddle with their phones during the anthem, those that do will probably be on them while they drive a car aswell , they are not for changing.

The vast majority sing, some would even belt it out, imagine that!

The vast majority know every single word as they were taught it in school and sing it, dare I say it- proudly and clearly ( far from mumbling).

I am very proud to watch and listen to thousands upon thousands of 'Gaelic' fans sing the anthem. I often had the hairs on the back of my neck stand to attention during the anthem. It is part and parcel of our great games. Long may it continue, it is not for changing!

However , I really don't like when an individual singer sings it, simply play the music....let the crowd take over...enjoy the experience , as it really can create a fantastic atmosphere!

Realt Dearg Sec

ShamoBuc wrote: »

The absolute vast majority of people don't fiddle with their phones during the anthem, those that do will probably be on them while they drive a car aswell , they are not for changing.

The vast majority sing, some would even belt it out, imagine that!

The vast majority know every single word as they were taught it in school and sing it, dare I say it- proudly and clearly ( far from mumbling).

I am very proud to watch and listen to thousands upon thousands of 'Gaelic' fans sing the anthem. I often had the hairs on the back of my neck stand to attention during the anthem. It is part and parcel of our great games. Long may it continue, it is not for changing!

However , I really don't like when an individual singer sings it, simply play the music....let the crowd take over...enjoy the experience , as it really can create a fantastic atmosphere!

Agree with you on the last point. Never heard people belting it out at a hurling match though, ever.

seligehgit

ShamoBuc wrote: »

The absolute vast majority of people don't fiddle with their phones during the anthem, those that do will probably be on them while they drive a car aswell , they are not for changing.

The vast majority sing, some would even belt it out, imagine that!

The vast majority know every single word as they were taught it in school and sing it, dare I say it- proudly and clearly ( far from mumbling).

I am very proud to watch and listen to thousands upon thousands of 'Gaelic' fans sing the anthem. I often had the hairs on the back of my neck stand to attention during the anthem. It is part and parcel of our great games. Long may it continue, it is not for changing!

However , I really don't like when an individual singer sings it, simply play the music....let the crowd take over...enjoy the experience , as it really can create a fantastic atmosphere!

Well said.

Vunderground

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

The usage of the term "Gaelic" is very problematic in terms of Irish nationalism. It was appropriated by the Irish Ireland movement to move away from the more inclusive, nebulous "Celtic", thereby excluding Protestants or English people from its purview. But there's nothing intrinsically meaningful about the term "Gaelic" or any unbreakable connection between it and the flag (while we're on the topic of the flag, it's whole meaning is about reconciling the two communities, rather than perpetuating their separation as "another country", but it's a separate point). For me the use of the word "Gaelic" in the name of the association is not something I'm especially fond of for that reason, it's meaning is quite malleable and politicised anyway. More importantly, the sport predates the association by many thousands of years, and even its modern incarnation owes a huge amount to unionists in Trinity College. The GAA administers the sport now, but the sport is much, much bigger than it (to make one obvious point, its history links us with the people of Scotland already), and its history dwarfs it. The sport, in other words, transcends the historically very narrow moment that gave rise to the GAA.

That is also to set aside that, for me, the GAA is a great organisation precisely because it has demonstrated its ability to evolve and change throughout its history.

As for the anthem creating an atmosphere, if you like an atmosphere of people fiddling with their phones while others half-heartedly mumble the words wrongly, then yeah, it creates a spectacular atmosphere. But it's not one that does anything for me.

Going a little off topic, but the chapter on the games and the association in Paul Rouse's 'Sport & Ireland' (Oxford Press) 2015
is very entertaining and illuminating.

BonnieSituation

Bonniedog wrote: »

Firstly, there is never going to be a united Ireland.

Secondly, prods are never going to be GAA people anyway, so keep the anthem and flag.


And let them do their own thing.

Furthermore, GAA officials should stop trying to solve the country's political problems, and bending over backwards to accommodate people who hate us anyway.

What's a prod? You mean Unionists? Let's keep the discussion along those lines thanks. Jack Boothman and Wolf Tone were "Prods" don't forget, but they weren't Unionists.

blue note wrote: »

I think they should be dropped

I don't see why though? It's a central part of the Irish Nationalist identity (especially in Fermanagh, Armagh, Tyrone, Donegal, Antrim, Derry)

I can imagine there'd be quite a resistance among the Nationalists to this.

Southerners tend to forget how it was during the Troubles and what it means to be able to be proud of your Nationalism now and not feel second class.

Ever been to an Ulster Final or a game in the Athletic Grounds or Healy Park? Try that before you make such judgements about what it means to some people.

and I think we should look at the naming of GAA clubs while we're at it. It's an all Ireland organisation and the truth is that the protestant / unionist population up north aren't really welcome to join.

"They" are more than welcome to join any club "they" want.

They can join if they want, but they regard the tricolour as the flag of a foreign nation, amhran na bhfiann as the anthem of a foreign nation

Likewise Nationalists in the North regard the Butchers' Apron and GSTQ as a foreign flag and a foreign anthem.

and some of the people the clubs are named after as terrorists who attacked their ancestors. These are all political opinions really, but I don't think politics should come into the organisation and therefore they should be dropped.

Removing politics is a laudable goal... but eh... how many Unionists are really put out? Get me some data there.

Put it this way - how many here would join Cromwell FC, who play God Save the Queen before games and fly a tricolour Union Jack?

Is this some mythical football club?

I'm sure the likes of Pat Fenlon playing for Linfield is pretty close.

This isn't part of the argument and no where near comparable.
Unionists weren't stopped at the border on the way to Dublin and refused passage. Or had their cars ransacked at checkpoints to be intimidated.

The Unionist experience since 1922 is incomparable to what the Nationalist has gone through.

I'd like the GAA to be an all inclusive organisation and it simply isn't up north at the moment. Dropping the flag and tricolour would be a start and it would be a long long process, but one that has to start sometime.

It's resolutely inclusive. But these are symbols of OUR culture and we should be proud of them. There is no rush or massive demand for such changes. Why offer them up until we need to.

Unionism has resolutely as a whole failed to meet Nationalist concessions. Why bother trying to get them on side when they still lament the death of the Big House?

Incidentally, I think I'd miss them over the first couple of years, then I'd forget about them. Maybe they could replace the national anthem with the Sunday Game theme tune to soften the blow.

Gerrout.

Bonniedog wrote: »

Well it doesn't. So what do we do? Fly union jack? Protestants have no interest in GAA so leave them at it.

Can ya stop!

Don't recall all these people making statements when GAA members and supporters were being murdered by loyalists and RUC and British army.

Indeed sir.

blue note wrote: »

Don't have a flag or have a gaa flag. Why do we need to have a national one?

Because it's a flag that represents the Irish Nationa as we see it construed today. Gimme a Patrick's Saltire if you must. But until that;'s my National flag, the Tricolour is staying up thank you very much.

Flags and anthems are one of the reasons they have zero interest in gaa. In fact it's association with nationalism is basically the reason none of that community up north play gaa.

Bigotry and unwillingness to cross the barricades are the real reason. Unionism only exists to be "different" to Nationalism. It's cultural contribution is poor at best.

And protestant children I can assure you are not responsible for murders of gaa members. Why exclude them? Take away the associations with nationalism from the organisation, they've nothing to do with the games now anyway.

No protestant child is excluded from anywhere. You mean Unionust kids I suppose?

Bonniedog wrote: »

Reason they don't have any interest is that they are a separate ethnic group that identifies with Britain, not Ireland.

There is an ethnic differentiation as different as a man from Ashbourne and Trim. It's a fallacy that needs to be broken down.

Which is their own business. That's not going to change. They don't water down their traditions so why should we?

I agree mostly with this. Watering down traditions and welcoming others in to share them are different things. Unionism doesn't lend itself to "sharing".

Patww79 wrote: »

Pandering to the orange order would mean it would never be the same again. If that sort of concession is made then do you think it'd stop there? I'd rather see it gone than it be destroyed by at their hands.

The Orange Order aren't even being discussed here. Away with you.

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

So Them V Us forever, permanent separation and mistrust for its own sake and never the twain shall meet as a rule? I'm not really into the debate as such, but that's a depressing approach to go into it with no matter how you look at it. No thanks.

It isn't themmuns and Us'uns. But there's no need to water down the cultural experience for the rest of us waiting on some mythical unionists to tarry forth.

Patww79 wrote: »

Of course. 'Them' is another country and in no way should they be influencing our culture, especially when their own is built around a hatred for ours.

Yeah buddy, head to Dungannon, Keady, Crosmaglen, Cushendall, the Falls or Newry and say that to them. Mother of Lord.

ShamoBuc wrote: »

The absolute vast majority of people don't fiddle with their phones during the anthem, those that do will probably be on them while they drive a car aswell , they are not for changing.

The vast majority sing, some would even belt it out, imagine that!

The vast majority know every single word as they were taught it in school and sing it, dare I say it- proudly and clearly ( far from mumbling).

I am very proud to watch and listen to thousands upon thousands of 'Gaelic' fans sing the anthem. I often had the hairs on the back of my neck stand to attention during the anthem. It is part and parcel of our great games. Long may it continue, it is not for changing!

However , I really don't like when an individual singer sings it, simply play the music....let the crowd take over...enjoy the experience , as it really can create a fantastic atmosphere!

Hate when there's a singer. Ruins the "buzz".

ciarriaithuaidh

ShamoBuc wrote: »

The absolute vast majority of people don't fiddle with their phones during the anthem, those that do will probably be on them while they drive a car aswell , they are not for changing.

The vast majority sing, some would even belt it out, imagine that!

The vast majority know every single word as they were taught it in school and sing it, dare I say it- proudly and clearly ( far from mumbling).

I am very proud to watch and listen to thousands upon thousands of 'Gaelic' fans sing the anthem. I often had the hairs on the back of my neck stand to attention during the anthem. It is part and parcel of our great games. Long may it continue, it is not for changing!

However , I really don't like when an individual singer sings it, simply play the music....let the crowd take over...enjoy the experience , as it really can create a fantastic atmosphere!

x 2. Sums up my own feelings exactly.

I'm all for inclusiveness and everything going on in terms of cross-sport co-operation everywhere on the island is great. Hearing of Rugby and GAA clubs co-operating in Ulster is especially good to hear.

Problem though is that for a long time, GAA matches were one of few places Nationalists from the North could go and feel Irish (sing the anthem etc) in peace and comfort. They're not going to give that up just to appease the PC Brigade, and I don't blame them one bit. The vast majority of Unionist politicians pour scorn on all GAA activity at every chance. Besides, if Willie John McBride, Rory Best, even David Tweed (an Orange Order member) can listen to Amhráin na bhFiann before rugby games, then the miniscule number of unionists who may attend a game can block their ears or do whatever they want.

If you were to suggest that maybe we play the anthem at only provincial finals and knockout champiosnhip games, then maybe I could agree with you. (I'd love if we could do away with minutes silence while I'm at it!), but if you try to take away the anthem before an All Ireland final I will resist you in every way possible. It is magical for me and I suspect I'm not alone. RDS - I'd love to know what game you were at that people were "mumbling the anthem or fiddling with their phones"..any big game I've ever been at, the anthem is sung with great gusto.

ProudDUB

Bonniedog wrote: »

Reason they don't have any interest is that they are a separate ethnic group that identifies with Britain, not Ireland.

Which is their own business. That's not going to change. They don't water down their traditions so why should we?

Bingo.

What level of repricocity is going on here?

Are Unionists going to stop playing God Save The Queen at cricket matches to encourage Catholics/Nationalists to participate more in the sport? Are they going to stop flying Union Jacks at hockey or club rugby matches, to encourage Nationalists to participate more? Are they going to stop displaying blatantly sectarian banners at Linfield games?

Unless there is some sort of give and take here on both sides, I have zero interest in even discussing the matter.

I love the playing of the anthems and all the pagentry that it involves. Then again, I'm usually at Croker. I'm listening to a state of the art sound system. If I had to listen to some of the dreadful caterwauling that goes on at provincial grounds, on a regular basis, I'd probably want to chop my ears off. (Ulster seems to be the worst for this. Why is that? Are there no decent singers north of Dundalk? )

Anyway, all of that is a separate discussion. If decisions are made to reduce the playing of the anthem at games, or teams parading behind flags, or El Presidente being trotted out to greet the teams before throw in, I am ok with that, if it is done as a general over haul to reduce the amount of pre game fuss and pagentry. I'm sure some of the players would love to just get stuck in and, get rid of so much fuss. But if it's done to be more warm and cuddly towards members of a certain political background, where there is no evidence that it's going to be reciprocated, then I am against that.

That is not to say reciprocity doesn't exist. Maybe it does. If people living in the North, are able to show me evidence of hockey/soccer/golf/ etc organisations that would have a largely Protestant membership, going out of their way to facilitate the sensitivities of Nationalists, then perhaps I'd be willing to be more open minded.

And by evidence, I mean something a wee bit more concrete than anecdotes of Nigel from across the road, inviting you for a game of golf at his club one time. I mean concrete evidence of such a will on the part of clubs and sporting organisations, or their public mouthpieces, akin to the likes of Aogan O'Fearghail or Jarlath Burns in the GAA. I've a feeling I'll be waiting a while.

BonnieSituation

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

x 2. Sums up my own feelings exactly.

I'm all for inclusiveness and everything going on in terms of cross-sport co-operation everywhere on the island is great. Hearing of Rugby and GAA clubs co-operating in Ulster is especially good to hear.

Problem though is that for a long time, GAA matches were one of few places Nationalists from the North could go and feel Irish (sing the anthem etc) in peace and comfort. They're not going to give that up just to appease the PC Brigade, and I don't blame them one bit. The vast majority of Unionist politicians pour scorn on all GAA activity at every chance. Besides, if Willie John McBride, Rory Best, even David Tweed (an Orange Order member) can listen to Amhráin na bhFiann before rugby games, then the miniscule number of unionists who may attend a game can block their ears or do whatever they want.

If you were to suggest that maybe we play the anthem at only provincial finals and knockout champiosnhip games, then maybe I could agree with you. (I'd love if we could do away with minutes silence while I'm at it!), but if you try to take away the anthem before an All Ireland final I will resist you in every way possible. It is magical for me and I suspect I'm not alone. RDS - I'd love to know what game you were at that people were "mumbling the anthem or fiddling with their phones"..any big game I've ever been at, the anthem is sung with great gusto.

Janey. Agree with this completely. That's saying something. You'd easily know it was November (ish).

K-9

Hearing the anthem played in the 6 counties or at an Ulster final is one of the most special moments in GAA, it's an expression of what the GAA means in N.I.

If it's part of a UI settlement fair enough, but until then it should be respected as part of the nationalist tradition and culture.

Realt Dearg Sec

ciarriaithuaidh wrote: »

RDS - I'd love to know what game you were at that people were "mumbling the anthem or fiddling with their phones"..any big game I've ever been at, the anthem is sung with great gusto.

Are ye joking me? A few people have made this claim now. I sing the anthem myself, so it's not like I'm trying to troll anyone here. In my own way I quite like it as a ritual and the sense of excitement just before throw in that it creates. I wish it was only at provincial and All Ireland finals, precisely because there is no sense of occasion around it, people seem to me to be quite numb to it, it's just a thing that they go through. Look at the players jumping about and warming up during it (which they most certainly don't do in soccer or rugby by the way). I think that's the reason I feel quite self-conscious singing it because nearly everyone around is kind of making this odd incoherent mumbling sound. Gusto? Honestly I must be in a different association than most of ye. Maybe it's a northerner thing? I dunno, but at hurling matches nobody is doing anything with gusto other than roaring on their own team.

Realt Dearg Sec

Realt Dearg Sec wrote: »

The usage of the term "Gaelic" is very problematic in terms of Irish nationalism. It was appropriated by the Irish Ireland movement to move away from the more inclusive, nebulous "Celtic", thereby excluding Protestants or English people from its purview.

Where are you pulling this from? Irish nationalism has never been ethnic. Thomas Davis, who essentially created the culture of modern Irish nationalism was a Protestant and preached unity. He saw that unless we were Gaels we were not a nation. However he had always stressed it was not blood that made a person Irish, but the willingness to be part of the Irish nation.