Motorway fast lane!

Jomcc

Is it any wonder there is such bad lane discipline in Ireland. This sign is on North bound carriageway of M7. "Fast Lane Closed"

Apologies for quality of pic.

Atlantic Dawn

Yes the AA regularly announce on the radio alerts fast lane too when there's crashes on it, I suppose some people are just thick.

Jomcc

A bit better pic.....

xabi

Jomcc wrote: »

A bit better pic.....

Takes a pic of fast lane closed sign while driving in the 'fast' lane

CiniO

I've also seen those signs saying speed limit 40 KPH.

Perfect sign to ignore, as I don't know such units.

Jomcc

xabi wrote: »

Takes a pic of fast lane closed sign while driving in the 'fast' lane

There's always one......

Supergurrier

corglass

CiniO wrote: »

I've also seen those signs saying speed limit 40 KPH.

Perfect sign to ignore, as I don't know such units.

Great. Best of luck explaining that pedantic rubbish to the judge

CiniO

corglass wrote: »

Great. Best of luck explaining that pedantic rubbish to the judge

It's not pedantic rubbish.

I'm saying absolutly seriously, I don't believe I could be convicted for not obeying sign stating speed in KPH instead of km/h.

There is no legal unit of KPH, and no one can expect drivers to know what KPH is.

With a help of good solicitor, there's no chance to be convicted.

GM228

corglass wrote: »

Great. Best of luck explaining that pedantic rubbish to the judge

It's that very "rubbish" that does get people off especially wheb KPH has no meaning in Irish law in relation to speed limit signs.

CiniO

OSI wrote: »

The unit is used extensively in Irish Statute, get over it.

Can you give at least one example?

_Kaiser_

It's pedantic nit-picking nonsense and any attempt to use it (or "it's not a Fast Lane") as a "defence" in court would be just attempting to game the system. Everyone knows what's meant by "Fast Lane" or "KPH"

I'd certainly hope any Judge would treat it with the contempt it deserves.

GM228

OSI wrote: »

Here ya go

KPH is in relation to Light Rail Vehicles only, not applicable to the Road Traffic Acts or speed limits for mechanically propelled vehicles and I don't believe KPH is used anywhere else in legislation in relation to regulatory speed limits bar level crossing orders and roadwork speed limit orders, however the prescribed sign requires km/h to be used.

Even if km/h was used there is no legal basis for those portable type traffic signs to be used for speed limits and therefore they are not enforceable.

xabi

Jomcc wrote: »

There's always one......

Joke...

mulbot

What the hell is a fast lane?Do they mean the overtaking lane?The speed limit's the same for both lanes.

extra-ordinary_

They're all fast lanes :pac:

boardsuser1

Fast lane or overtaking lane?

frozenfrozen

it said fast lane closed so I slowed down

Ferrari3600

Fast Lane was the name of a 1980s Brit car magazine:

ianobrien

OSI wrote: »

Here ya go

Being a right ba$tard about it, that has k.p.h. not kph. K.p.h. is an abbreviation as the period (full stop) is showing that the word has been shortened. The text earlier has the full spelling of the words indicating what the abbreviations mean.

For me, kph does not mean kilometres per hour (that's kp/h in SI units). Kph to me is potassium hydroxide phthalate......

Leonard Hofstadter

km/h is the correct abbreviation. We should just go back to using miles and mph !

dr.fuzzenstein

_Kaiser_ wrote: »

It's pedantic nit-picking nonsense and any attempt to use it (or "it's not a Fast Lane") as a "defence" in court would be just attempting to game the system. Everyone knows what's meant by "Fast Lane" or "KPH"

I'd certainly hope any Judge would treat it with the contempt it deserves.

Yes, its laughable, ridiculous and childish. Like saying that a printout from a garda station breathalyzer doesn't print it in Irish as well. I mean what kind of a brainless, dickless moron of a judge would ever let that sh*t fly? Thank god the Irish justice system isn't that fcuking retarded, I mean that would really he funny, thank god that has never happened...

Marcusm

Speed limit signs do not need to specify units.

Oodoov

Jesus uptight in here. Fast lane, overtaking lane, BMW/Audi lane what's the difference everyone knows what it means.

Seth Brundle

Oodoov wrote: »

Jesus uptight in here. Fast lane, overtaking lane, BMW/Audi lane what's the difference everyone knows what it means.

Audi? There should be no fwd cars in the BMW Lane!

dudara

Probably easier to fit "fast lane" onto the sign rather than "overtaking lane"

Joking aside, wouldn't saying "Lane 2 closed" or "Lane 3 closed" work just as well?

bazz26

I thought it was called the BMW lane! :pac:

Mervyn Skidmore

ianobrien wrote: »

Kph to me is potassium hydroxide phthalate......

How should one adjust their driving for 40 potassium hydroxide phthalate? I don't recall that being in the rules of the road?

CiniO

Mervyn Skidmore wrote: »

How should one adjust their driving for 40 potassium hydroxide phthalate? I don't recall that being in the rules of the road?

Well believe it or not, but I'd say most people from EU Continent, when they'd saw a display board saying 40 KPH, would have no clue what it means.

If it said - speed limit 40 kph, they could probably catch the sense.
But KPH is not something they would know or relate to km/h.

When I first started driving in Ireland at age of 24, I was surprised what KPH was.

jca

CiniO wrote: »

Well believe it or not, but I'd say most people from EU Continent, when they'd saw a display board saying 40 KPH, would have no clue what it means.

If it said - speed limit 40 kph, they could probably catch the sense.
But KPH is not something they would know or relate to km/h.

When I first started driving in Ireland at age of 24, I was surprised what KPH was.

It was still mph back then with a man in front with a red flag. Before you get all uppity again and report me, it's a joke.

Killinator

CiniO wrote: »

Well believe it or not, but I'd say most people from EU Continent, when they'd saw a display board saying 40 KPH, would have no clue what it means.

Ah come on!!!
If they have enough brain capacity to figure out how to drive in the first place then I'm sure most could figure it out.
The number, be it '40', '80', '120' or whatever, would be a fairly good clue as to what's expected and what the meaning of the sign is.
Unless you're suggesting the absence of a forward slash on the sign turns most foreign drivers into gormless idiots then I think they'd manage ok. I highly doubt most foreign drivers, or non-foreign for that matter, read up on statute.ie to see whether it says kph, KPH, kp/h, km/h in the legislation. They'll just know the country is either miles or kilometers and then just follow the number on it.
It's not rocket science!

CiniO

Killinator wrote: »

Ah come on!!!
If they have enough brain capacity to figure out how to drive in the first place then I'm sure most could figure it out.
The number, be it '40', '80', '120' or whatever, would be a fairly good clue as to what's expected and what the meaning of the sign is.
Unless you're suggesting the absence of a forward slash on the sign turns most foreign drivers into gormless idiots then I think they'd manage ok. I highly doubt most foreign drivers, or non-foreign for that matter, read up on statute.ie to see whether it says kph, KPH, kp/h, km/h in the legislation. They'll just know the country is either miles or kilometers and then just follow the number on it.
It's not rocket science!

Obviously most foreign people driving in Ireland know speed limits are in km/h.
And considering that in most other countries speed unit is actually not displayed on speed limit signs, there would be no confusion whatsoever.
However, I was referring to big digital display boards saying f.e. 40 KPH.
That's the thing which most foreign driver's wouldn't get.
It's makes no difference thought, as it was explained before by GM228, that those boards are meaningless anyway.

Killinator

CiniO wrote: »

Obviously most foreign people driving in Ireland know speed limits are in km/h.
And considering that in most other countries speed unit is actually not displayed on speed limit signs, there would be no confusion whatsoever.
However, I was referring to big digital display boards saying f.e. 40 KPH.
That's the thing which most foreign driver's wouldn't get.
It's makes no difference thought, as it was explained before by GM228, that those boards are meaningless anyway.

You said they wouldnt have a clue what it ment, I'm sure they would get it, they have electronic boards elsewhere and again a bit of minor brain engagement will sort them out, if not then they should probably pull over and call a taxi.
99% of people will understand it and then it looks like the other 1% will see it as an excuse to ignore or as seems to be the case here, link it to chemicals and the peridoc tables.

As for the boards being meaningless, that'll be a grand excuse when it warns of a closed Lane but you plough on through anyway because feck it! It doesn't mean anything by law therefore it can be ignored regardless of the consequences.

flazio

How about a compromise. "Right Lane" or just use this sign.

Killinator

flazio wrote: »

How about a compromise. "Right Lane" or just use this sign.

I dunno fella, is that the right shade of orange. Good solicitor and youre home free!

endacl

CiniO wrote: »

It's not pedantic rubbish.

I'm saying absolutly seriously, I don't believe I could be convicted for not obeying sign stating speed in KPH instead of km/h.

There is no legal unit of KPH, and no one can expect drivers to know what KPH is.

With a help of good solicitor, there's no chance to be convicted.

I understand it. I'm not thick.

CiniO

Killinator wrote: »

You said they wouldnt have a clue what it ment, I'm sure they would get it, they have electronic boards elsewhere and again a bit of minor brain engagement will sort them out, if not then they should probably pull over and call a taxi.
99% of people will understand it and then it looks like the other 1% will see it as an excuse to ignore or as seems to be the case here, link it to chemicals and the peridoc tables.

You're saying that 99% people would understand it.
I'm saying that most wouldn't, as KPH is no used anywhere on the EU Continent.
If you asked me 15 years ago what 40 KPH meant, I wouldn't have a clue.

As for the boards being meaningless, that'll be a grand excuse when it warns of a closed Lane but you plough on through anyway because feck it! It doesn't mean anything by law therefore it can be ignored regardless of the consequences.

No. Display boards can be used as means of displaying warning text.
But if board says 40 KPH, that's not a legal sign for speed limit, and therefore can't be enforced.

endacl

CiniO wrote: »

You're saying that 99% people would understand it.
I'm saying that most wouldn't, as KPH is no used anywhere on the EU Continent.
If you asked me 15 years ago what 40 KPH meant, I wouldn't have a clue.





No. Display boards can be used as means of displaying warning text.
But if board says 40 KPH, that's not a legal sign for speed limit, and therefore can't be enforced.

Give it up.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kilometres_per_hour#Kilometres_per_hour_as_an_abbreviation

Killinator

Yes I'm saying 99% would understand. Just because you couldn't figure it out is not an indication that no one else could.

As for not enforceable you work away with that see how it ends up.
Funny you can figure out that you don't need to obey a light board despite not being able to comprehend what it actually means. But whatever, drive how ever you want, but just drop the excuses.

h3000

dudara wrote: »

Probably easier to fit "fast lane" onto the sign rather than "overtaking lane"

Joking aside, wouldn't saying "Lane 2 closed" or "Lane 3 closed" work just as well?

Ah now you can't expect people to have to count too while driving. It's hard enough trying to check Facebook and Snapchat your friends and now you want us to count :shakes head:

GM228

Marcusm wrote: »

Speed limit signs do not need to specify units.

Yes they do by law, they are required to be a certain diameter, shape and colour.

Only a round white sign with red diameter with black speed numbers and black km/h is a legal speed limit sign. Anything else is not in compliance with the law.

HanaleiJ5N

Christ....

Anyone who wouldn't understand what 40 KPH means in the context of Irish roads is a fool who quite frankly should not be allowed sit behind a steering wheel...

That's just stupid. In the UK and NI the signs just give the numeric limit, no letters on the signs, just the number. You could extend that moronic argument to try and state that pretty much all UK road signs mean nothing and that you can drive whatever speed you like over there just because the signs don't explicitly state miles per hour be that abbreviated or otherwise.

What a load of horsecrap

GM228

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

Christ....

Anyone who wouldn't understand what 40 KPH means in the context of Irish roads is a fool who quite frankly should not be allowed sit behind a steering wheel...

That's just stupid. In the UK and NI the signs just give the numeric limit, no letters on the signs, just the number. You could extend that moronic argument to try and state that pretty much all UK road signs mean nothing and that you can drive whatever speed you like over there just because the signs don't explicitly state miles per hour be that abbreviated or otherwise.

What a load of horsecrap

I think the arguement is more about enforceability rather than understanding. Indeed we all should know that KPH and km/h are the same, but you could not make the same arguement in the UK as there is no legal requirement there to display MPH, here on the other hand there is a legal requirement to display km/h.

Without km/h it dosn't conform to the legal requirements to be a legal speed limit sign and thus is legally unenforceable, even if an electronic sign had km/h it still can't be enforced as it still does not satisfy the requirements, it's one of those "technicalities" that solicitors just love using to get people off the hook.

CiniO

HanaleiJ5N wrote: »

Christ....

Anyone who wouldn't understand what 40 KPH means in the context of Irish roads is a fool who quite frankly should not be allowed sit behind a steering wheel...

Well I just said above, when I moved to Ireland, I didn't know what KPH meant.
And I don't consider myself a fool. Even opposite - I studied physics for few years. Never in my course of studies I heard anyone calling km/h as KPH.

Fact that in Ireland for some strange reason KPH has become a slang name for km/h, doesn't mean any foreign person would guess that.

grogi

CiniO wrote: »

I've also seen those signs saying speed limit 40 KPH.

Perfect sign to ignore, as I don't know such units.

You're just playing smart ass now...

Hour is not part of SI too, yet you still understand it. We still use bhp and PS, but according to SI and 1992 EU regulations should be using kW.

CiniO wrote: »

Well I just said above, when I moved to Ireland, I didn't know what KPH meant.
And I don't consider myself a fool. Even opposite - I studied physics for few years. Never in my course of studies I heard anyone calling km/h as KPH.

Fact that in Ireland for some strange reason KPH has become a slang name for km/h, doesn't mean any foreign person would guess that.

It is not strange reason. In English speaking countries it was natural transition from mph.

RayCun

CiniO wrote: »

Well I just said above, when I moved to Ireland, I didn't know what KPH meant.

But I bet if you were driving down the road and you saw a sign that said 80, and a sign that said 100, and a sign that said 80KPH, and a sign that said 60, you wouldn't think "I wonder what that weird sign with KPH on it meant? Was it erected by Kampania Przeciw Homofobii? Is there a radio station with the call sign KPH at 80FM?"

and if you tried that defence in court, you'd be either laughed out of it, or get a worse sentence for taking the piss.

KPH may be a non-standard abbreviation, but it is perfectly clear in context.

jca

CiniO wrote: »

Well I just said above, when I moved to Ireland, I didn't know what KPH meant.
And I don't consider myself a fool. Even opposite - I studied physics for few years. Never in my course of studies I heard anyone calling km/h as KPH.

Fact that in Ireland for some strange reason KPH has become a slang name for km/h, doesn't mean any foreign person would guess that.

Pity you didn't study common sense... Anyone with half a brain in their head AND were remotely interested in obeying the posted speed limit would know what 40 kph meant.

twin_beacon

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

Yes, its laughable, ridiculous and childish. Like saying that a printout from a garda station breathalyzer doesn't print it in Irish as well. I mean what kind of a brainless, dickless moron of a judge would ever let that sh*t fly? Thank god the Irish justice system isn't that fcuking retarded, I mean that would really he funny, thank god that has never happened...

CiniO wrote: »

It's not pedantic rubbish.

I'm saying absolutly seriously, I don't believe I could be convicted for not obeying sign stating speed in KPH instead of km/h.

There is no legal unit of KPH, and no one can expect drivers to know what KPH is.

With a help of good solicitor, there's no chance to be convicted.

In the first example, its written into law that a printout from a Garda station breathalyzer must print in Irish and English. The Judge in this instance referred the case to the high court. Three Judges made the ruling that the sample could not be used, as the irish print out was not supplied. I don't believe the ruling its self was wrong or stupid, however I do believe that the law itself is stupid. The Judges were forced to implement the law, even if they did not agree with it.

Second example. KPH is a valid unit of measurement, although its not commonly used. Unless it states in Irish law, that the unit for measuring speeds and displaying speed limits on signs should only be displayed as "KM/H", then there is every chance that you would be convicted. That law could well exist, but I'm not aware of it.

GM228

twin_beacon wrote: »

In the first example, its written into law that a printout from a Garda station breathalyzer must print in Irish and English. The Judge in this instance referred the case to the high court. Three Judges made the ruling that the sample could not be used, as the irish print out was not supplied. I don't believe the ruling its self was wrong or stupid, however I do believe that the law itself is stupid. The Judges were forced to implement the law, even if they did not agree with it.

Second example. KPH is a valid unit of measurement, although its not commonly used. Unless it states in Irish law, that the unit for measuring speeds and displaying speed limits on signs should only be displayed as "KM/H", then there is every chance that you would be convicted. That law could well exist, but I'm not aware of it.

It is indeed written into Irish law that km/h must be on a sign, it's mandatory.

A speed sign must also be a proper sign (round, white with red circle, black speed numbers and black km/h), anything else is not legally recognised as a speed sign.

NiallBoo

CiniO wrote: »

It's makes no difference thought, as it was explained before by GM228, that those boards are meaningless anyway.

AFAIK, they can ask the council to make a temporary speed limit for the duration of works.

The kicker of course is that you have no way of knowing whether they got one when you're looking at the sign.

largepants

Oodoov wrote: »

Jesus uptight in here. Fast lane, overtaking lane, BMW/Audi lane what's the difference everyone knows what it means.

+1

Too much of an issue is being made over people calling it a 'fast lane'.