Pope will vist Ireland in 2018(mod warning in Op)

RobertKK

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Speaking of irrational...will the Pope be bringing his imaginary friend with him to Ireland?

The church's role is to save the souls of people...which scientists now say does exist.

Bubbaclaus

RobertKK wrote: »

The church's role is to save the souls of people...which scientists now say does exist.

Praise be the baby jesus.

54and56

RobertKK wrote: »

The church's role is to save the souls of people...which a small number of scientists hypothesise may now say does exist but have not produced any proof in support of their hypotesis.

Fixed that for ya

Bubbaclaus

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Fixed that for ya

Ah leave him have it. Sure if the scientists he is quoting are correct it makes the Church "saving our souls" as he described redundant. Our consciousness lives on in the quantum sphere after death - no church intervention required and it can disband as it has no effect.

Skommando

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

Varadkar being Taoiseach in 2018 would be funny. The Pope being welcomed by a 'sinful' gay leader.

a better question would be what irish 'leader' wasn't sinful ?

Hotblack Desiato

RobertKK wrote: »

The running of schools...ever wonder why the church runs so many schools? They did before the state existed.

Yes they were set up under British rule and taxpayer funded as they are today, that's why they're called National Schools.
Difference is that they were set up originally to welcome all children and allow any child to undergo the religious instruction of their parents' choosing, or none.
Then the RCC and the Presbyterians hijacked the system for their own ends and gained control of the schools - still state funded - and turned them into sectarian indoctrination factories.

RobertKK wrote: »

it was a small percentage of priests who did the abuse

It looks like it was a much larger percentage, if not the majority, of bishops who participated in the cover-up - do you think it's right that the likes of that vile man Brady will never face justice in this country?

Dyr

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Fixed that for ya

Yerra ya don't need proof, just faith.

RobertKK

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

A small percentage? Relative to 100% of priests, yes, relative to the percentage of paedophiles in general society? No!!

If the church was truly transparent it would release all victims from the confidentiality agreements they made them sign, report all internal information they have relating to abuse which has not yet been made public or included in any prosecutions and if they were truly repentant they wouldn't continue to attack abuse victims like they did to Michael O'Brien in the video previously posted above and they would set aside the sweetheart deal they did with fellow Catholic ministers from Fianna Fail and pay the compensation due to all of their victims.

Their words are not backed up by their actions and until that happens they have to be viewed as a dangerous organisation who are paying lip service to sexual abuse due to the public pressure they are under but ultimately they are not changing one bit. The sooner they fade away the better and a few more decades of record low ordination numbers should hopefully see that happen in my lifetime.

The sexual abuse in the church was a very small percentage of overall abuse.
Also a very high percentage of the cases in the church were from the 1980s and earlier.
Nowadays a Garda vetted person and from what I see it seems to aways be women are present when the priest is alone with children to offer the children protection from abuse and the priest protection from false accusations.
Some act as if nothing has changed.

RobertKK

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I quote and edit replies and say I fixed it as a reply as I have no proper answer and I can only see the bad in things and nothing else

That is what it says as it shows there is no point in keeping replying when that is done.
Fixed it for you while giving my opinion under someone else's name is disrespectful, so I should apologise...

RobertKK

The Pope said earlier this year:

"A pastor cannot feel that it is enough simply to apply moral laws ... as if they were stones to throw at people's lives,"
"By thinking that everything is black and white, we sometimes close off the way of grace and growth,"
He emphasizes that "unjust discrimination" against gays and lesbians is unacceptable, downplays the idea of "living in sin" and suggests that priests should use their own discretion on whether divorced Catholics in new marriages can take Communion.
the Pope who said, "Who am I to judge?" when asked about homosexuality.

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/04/08/europe/vatican-pope-family/

So when people mention Varadkar, like everything else, they are talking from a lack of knowledge.

54and56

RobertKK wrote: »

The sexual abuse in the church was a very small percentage of overall abuse.
Also a very high percentage of the cases in the church were from the 1980s and earlier.
Nowadays a Garda vetted person and from what I see it seems to aways be women are present when the priest is alone with children to offer the children protection from abuse and the priest protection from false accusations.
Some act as if nothing has changed.

Well done for ignoring the transparency and compensation issues.

RobertKK

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Well done for ignoring the transparency and compensation issues.

Now you know what it feels like to have a lot of one's posts ignored, and people discussing what they want instead.

gctest50

RobertKK wrote: »

Now you know what it feels like to have a lot of one's posts ignored, and people discussing what they want instead.

aww - here ya go it xmas n stuff :

RobertKK wrote: »

The church's role is to save the souls of people...which scientists now say does exist.

Just suppose in say 10 years those scientists produce proof - say 100% proof just to keep it simple

Except like a little lab rat it doesn't respond at all to / runs away from Christian stuff and likes something else .... say Scandinavian New Metal

How fast would you abandon the church

RobertKK

gctest50 wrote: »

aww - here ya go it xmas n stuff :



Just suppose in say 10 years those scientists produce proof - say 100% proof just to keep it simple

Except like a little lab rat it doesn't respond at all to / runs away from Christian stuff and likes something else say

How fast would you abandon the church

I just posted what I did for the response, the scientists in question has worked on their study of near death experiences since 1996 to come to this conclusion.
I agree with them as I had a near death experience back in 2001.

But with other stuff you will see people ignore stuff that doesn't suit their opinion like the Pope saying
"There is no stereotype of the ideal family, but rather a challenging mosaic made up of many different realities, with all their joys, hopes and problems,"

"Every person, regardless of sexual orientation, ought to be respected in his or her dignity and treated with consideration."

54and56

gctest50 wrote: »

How fast would you abandon the church

He's fully invested in the Catholic Church to such an extent he defends the indefensible and ignores rational argument.

I feel sorry for the guy. He doesn't even realise that he (but to a much lesser extent) is also a victim of the brainwashing he received and continues to receive from the Catholic Church.

I think I'll leave it here. No point arguing with someone who is an apologist for paedophilia and a victim himself of the Catholic Church.

Thankfully the number of people in this country who have any respect for the Catholic Church is in terminal decline. One last PR exercise by the top man won't stop that.

Skommando

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

He's fully invested in the Catholic Church to such an extent he defends the indefensible and ignores rational argument.

I feel sorry for the guy. He doesn't even realise that he (but to a much lesser extent) is also a victim of the brainwashing he received and continues to receive from the Catholic Church.

I think I'll leave it here. No point arguing with someone who is an apologist for paedophilia and a victim himself of the Catholic Church.

Thankfully the number of people in this country who have any respect for the Catholic Church is in terminal decline. One last PR exercise by the top man won't stop that.

behold the example of the doublespeak tolerant liberal that defends balance, diversity, equality and freedom from hatred, and distortion the truth (c)

RobertKK

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

He's fully invested in the Catholic Church to such an extent he defends the indefensible and ignores rational argument.

I feel sorry for the guy. He doesn't even realise that he (but to a much lesser extent) is also a victim of the brainwashing he received and continues to receive from the Catholic Church.

I think I'll leave it here. No point arguing with someone who is an apologist for paedophilia and a victim himself of the Catholic Church.

Thankfully the number of people in this country who have any respect for the Catholic Church is in terminal decline. One last PR exercise by the top man won't stop that.

I love how you don't know me.

54and56

RobertKK wrote: »

I just posted what I did for the response, the scientists in question has worked on their study of near death experiences since 1996 to come to this conclusion.
I agree with them as I had a near death experience back in 2001.

Can't let this go unchallenged.

Oxygen deprivation/unconsciousness/hallucination etc do not equate to any sort of proof that "god" or a "soul" exists. It just means your brain is a bit scrambled for a few seconds/minutes.

I had a near death experience on a golf course a few weeks ago (100% true) and I was a bit shaken for a few minutes but it didn't alter the fact that God is still imaginary and the Catholic Church is the biggest global paedophile ring of all time.

I'll leave you with some humour

RobertKK

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Can't let this go unchallenged.

Oxygen deprivation/unconsciousness/hallucination etc do not equate to any sort of proof that "god" or a "soul" exists. It just means your brain is a bit scrambled for a few seconds/minutes.

I had a near death experience on a golf course a few weeks ago (100% true) and I was a bit shaken for a few minutes but it didn't alter the fact that God is still imaginary and the Catholic Church is the biggest global paedophile ring of all time.

I'll leave you with some humour

You don't know me and you have posted some highly offensive stuff about me even though you don't know me.
I can't be bothered looking at links you post, or participating in any discussion given the terrible and disgusting stuff you posted towards me.

54and56

RobertKK wrote: »

You don't know me and you have posted some highly offensive stuff about me even though you don't know me.
I can't be bothered looking at links you post, or participating in any discussion given the terrible and disgusting stuff you posted towards me.

Anyone reading your pathetic defence of the paedophile behaviour of the Catholic Church knows enough about you to rebut your assertions.

RobertKK

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

Anyone reading your pathetic defence of the paedophile behaviour of the Catholic Church knows enough about you to rebut your assertions.

Posting lies about me and trying to justify it is still lies.

54and56

Skommando wrote: »

behold the example of the doublespeak tolerant liberal that defends balance, diversity, equality and freedom from hatred, and distortion the truth (c)

I don't hate anyone and yes I am tolerant and will defend anyones right to believe whatever they want (providing it doesn't impact my right to not believe it), marry whoever they want etc but i will absolutely challenge the purveyors of and apologists for systematic sexual abuse.

If that that makes me intolerant in your book, you need a new book!!!

RobertKK

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

I don't hate anyone and yes I am tolerant and will defend anyones right to believe whatever they want (providing it doesn't impact my right to not believe it), marry whoever they want etc but i will absolutely challenge the purveyors of and apologists for systematic sexual abuse.

If that that makes me intolerant in your book, you need a new book!!!

Well that is clearly a lie after what you posted about me.

I have not been an apologist for paedophiles. What you posted about me is sick. You also said I am a victim of the church as if you know me.
I just saw a one sided argument, decided to add some balance as the church has and does good.
Then you go and post lies about me, you have not been tolerant.

Kermit.de.frog

I think the Pope visiting would be a positive thing overall despite everything.

Bubbaclaus

Maybe St Patrick can rise again like his Arab uncle Jesus did and banish the paedophile snakish Catholic priests from Ireland.

foggy_lad

Je_suis_Jean wrote: »

A half a dozen paedophiles in the BBC and a similar number in football clubs over the past three or four decades is in no way comparable to the 100+ paedophile priests IN ONE SINGLE DIOCESE in Ireland over the same period. http://www.irishexaminer.com/ireland/101-priests-in-single-diocese-accused-of-abuse-in-40-years-268345.html

It is very telling that of all the 30 odd millions paid out so far in that one diocese one third of the total was paid out to lawyers to defend known paedophiles!

RobertKK wrote: »

The sexual abuse in the church was a very small percentage of overall abuse.
Also a very high percentage of the cases in the church were from the 1980s and earlier.
Nowadays a Garda vetted person and from what I see it seems to aways be women are present when the priest is alone with children to offer the children protection from abuse and the priest protection from false accusations.
Some act as if nothing has changed.

Most of the abuse did not happen in the church, it was at the priests houses or at the sports clubs and scouting trips or for some of the monsters they took special pleasure in visiting the poor childrens homes and becoming regular visitors with the parents so they could visit any time and pop up little johnny in his own fooking bedroom!

How dare you or anyone else make little of something so monstrous!

The vatican and bishops and all the canon lawyers who continued to shield and protect the paedophiles very often used this "false allegations" bull**** to deflect and defend the bastards while they moved them around to abuse kids at a new town with new schools and sports clubs scouts and girl guids etc.

10 year olds were well known in church circles to make these "false allegations" against priests and christian brothers because "they got into trouble" or "some adult put them up to it to get some money from the church."

When the Catholic Church pays it's Dues in full(€1billion+) in this small country of ours I will openly and warmly welcome the pope as the head of the RC Church, Until then the lot of them from their pope down to the church sacristans can die roaring in the fiery depths of Hell!

RobertKK

foggy_lad wrote: »

It is very telling that of all the 30 odd millions paid out so far in that one diocese one third of the total was paid out to lawyers to defend known paedophiles!

Most of the abuse did not happen in the church, it was at the priests houses or at the sports clubs and scouting trips or for some of the monsters they took special pleasure in visiting the poor childrens homes and becoming regular visitors with the parents so they could visit any time and pop up little johnny in his own fooking bedroom!

How dare you or anyone else make little of something so monstrous!

The vatican and bishops and all the canon lawyers who continued to shield and protect the paedophiles very often used this "false allegations" bull**** to deflect and defend the bastards while they moved them around to abuse kids at a new town with new schools and sports clubs scouts and girl guids etc.

10 year olds were well known in church circles to make these "false allegations" against priests and christian brothers because "they got into trouble" or "some adult put them up to it to get some money from the church."

Are you saying priests should not have legal representation?

foggy_lad

RobertKK wrote: »

Are you saying priests should not have legal representation?

They did not just have legal representation!

The bishops and Vatican knew many of these monsters were guilty as they had arranged payouts and confidentiality agreements and forced parents and young children to sign them and yet these holy people arranged the best defence that money could buy for monsters who they knew were guilty!

RobertKK

foggy_lad wrote: »

They did not just have legal representation!

The bishops and Vatican knew many of these monsters were guilty as they had arranged payouts and confidentiality agreements and forced parents and young children to sign them and yet these holy people arranged the best defence that money could buy for monsters who they knew were guilty!

Not all the people accused were monsters.
They all deserve a fair trial, not the RTE justice system that Fr Reynolds received, or the trials that collapsed where it was found the accuser lied to try and receive compensation for nothing.
That is why everyone even the most heinous criminal deserves a fair trial.
Everyone wants the guilty to go to prison, but I don't believe anyone wants innocent people being accused and possibly convicted, and given there has been at least one trial where the accuser ended up in prison, then having proper legal representation is essential.
RTE had to waste our money with their false accusations, and I watched that program and I was disgusted by Fr Reynolds, when it was RTE that ended up getting away with it via a pay off.
I just believe everyone deserves a fair trial, however guilty we believe the person to be.
if guilty , let them rot in prison, but then that is another story with our lax justice system.

The flying mouse

RobertKK wrote: »

Not all the people accused were monsters.
They all deserve a fair trial, not the RTE justice system that Fr Reynolds received, or the trials that collapsed where it was found the accuser lied to try and receive compensation for nothing.
That is why everyone even the most heinous criminal deserves a fair trial.
Everyone wants the guilty to go to prison, but I don't believe anyone wants innocent people being accused and possibly convicted, and given there has been at least one trial where the accuser ended up in prison, then having proper legal representation is essential.
RTE had to waste our money with their false accusations, and I watched that program and I was disgusted by Fr Reynolds, when it was RTE that ended up getting away with it via a pay off.
I just believe everyone deserves a fair trial, however guilty we believe the person to be.
if guilty , let them rot in prison, but then that is another story with our lax justice system.

Robert stop defending the indefensible,The Catholic Church covered up horrendous crimes against children to protects its own interests, And yes there were some falsh crys but for the majority it was a cry for help.

If they were so concerned about its victims the church would have plead guilty to the systematic cover up of abuse,And not have a huge defence team which cost thousands, also one must remember with the help of the Irish goverment & not forgetting the Garda involvement either.(see Murphy report)

Having said that I have no problem with the pope comming to Ireland but I would like an apology on Irish soil to the the people of Ireland & especially its victims.


Just to add I was very much against the queens vist back a few years ago,but it turned out to be a good vist which did more to better our relations than not, maybe the same can happen here ?