Free Will(y)

15YemenRoad

Hi,

Is there anywhere in Dublin city I can go to make a will, free of charge?

I've read the details on citizensinformation and just want to make a simple will, one beneficiary. Don't particularly want to spend money on a solicitor for this.

Is there any public office I can go to and have two witnesses to make this legally binding? Surely there is an alternative to a solicitor?

Thanks x

hullaballoo

How good do you think a free root canal treatment would be?

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

15YemenRoad

hullaballoo wrote: »

How good do you think a free root canal treatment would be?

Not good at all.

However, I really don't need any professional input here. I want to make a very simple will with one beneficiary and have all the information I need on the language from citizensinformation.ie
I just want to make this legally binding without spending too much if possible.

Discodog

I would like to know the answer to this as well. The root canal comparison is ridiculous.

brian_t

15YemenRoad wrote: »

a simple will, one beneficiary.

What relationship is the beneficiary to you.

If the beneficiary was the person who would inherit anyway ( if you died intestate ) - do you really need a will ?

Discodog

For a will to be valid in Ireland, the testator must:

Be aged 18 or over (or be -- or have been -- married),

Act of his own free will and

Be of sound mind, memory and understanding, and

The will must be in writing,

The document must be signed at the end by the testator (or by someone in his presence and by his direction),

The signature must be written or acknowledged in the presence of two witnesses, both present at the same time and

The witnesses must sign in the presence of the testator, but not necessarily in each other's presence.

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/dont-take-a-chance-with-a-diy-will-that-might-not-be-valid-29912283.html

The witnessing procedure is apparently a cause to contest. Maybe get the witnesses to write the time & date as part of the signature.

15YemenRoad

brian_t wrote: »

What relationship is the beneficiary to you.

If the beneficiary was the person who would inherit anyway ( if you died intestate ) - do you really need a will ?

The beneficiary has no relationship to me (it is a charity) so yes, I do need a will.

Discodog wrote: »

For a will to be valid in Ireland, the testator must:

Be aged 18 or over (or be -- or have been -- married),

Act of his own free will and

Be of sound mind, memory and understanding, and

The will must be in writing,

The document must be signed at the end by the testator (or by someone in his presence and by his direction),

The signature must be written or acknowledged in the presence of two witnesses, both present at the same time and

The witnesses must sign in the presence of the testator, but not necessarily in each other's presence.

http://www.independent.ie/business/farming/dont-take-a-chance-with-a-diy-will-that-might-not-be-valid-29912283.html

The witnessing procedure is apparently a cause to contest. Maybe get the witnesses to write the time & date as part of the signature.

Yes, I know all of these things (again from citizensinformation), I'm asking if there is any public office I can go to and make a will without spending money on a solicitor

RayCun

If you go around to the local library or garda station with a will that says "I, Joe Bloggs, leave all my worldly possessions to Oxfam " sign it in the presence of two witnesses and have them sign it too, that is (going by the article linked above) a valid will.
But there may be complicating factors that I don't know about, and you don't realise are important. That's why you go to a solicitor. They know what to ask and how to make sure your wishes are followed where there are complications.

Discodog

15YemenRoad wrote: »

The beneficiary has no relationship to me (it is a charity) so yes, I do need a will.



Yes, I know all of these things (again from citizensinformation), I'm asking if there is any public office I can go to and make a will without spending money on a solicitor

Do you have to go anywhere ? Why can't you just write it out, as per the directions, sign, witness etc & lodge it with your executor ?

15YemenRoad

RayCun wrote: »

If you go around to the local library or garda station with a will that says "I, Joe Bloggs, leave all my worldly possessions to Oxfam " sign it in the presence of two witnesses and have them sign it too, that is (going by the article linked above) a valid will.
But there may be complicating factors that I don't know about, and you don't realise are important. That's why you go to a solicitor. They know what to ask and how to make sure your wishes are followed where there are complications.

Thanks, appreciate the reply.

I find it strange that there isn't a public office that allows someone to make a will without being worried that it won't be enforceable. Particularly for people who don't have a family/executor.

I'd just like if there was a structure that would allow me to support the charity of my choice instead of my estate just going back to the state.

hullaballoo

Discodog wrote: »

I would like to know the answer to this as well. The root canal comparison is ridiculous.

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

People are funny.

Sore throat: go to doctor.
Sore tooth: go to dentist.
Tax problem: go to accountant.
Legal problem: be grand.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

15YemenRoad

Discodog wrote: »

Do you have to go anywhere ? Why can't you just write it out, as per the directions, sign, witness etc & lodge it with your executor ?

I don't have an executor. I don't want my will to go missing with no one to enforce it.

hullaballoo wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

People are funny.

Sore throat: go to doctor.
Sore tooth: go to dentist.
Tax problem: go to accountant.
Legal problem: be grand.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Speaking as an accountant, this is a poor analogy.
In theory, all accounting/legal information should be available to all citizens.

I'm just saying I find it strange that there isn't a public facility for people who know exactly what they want to put into their will without the need for a solicitor (or accountant )

Again, I'm a single guy with no parents/siblings/dependents who wants to leave my estate to a charity, so I can't really imagine what complications this would cause.

johnnyskeleton

15YemenRoad wrote: »

I find it strange that there isn't a public office that allows someone to make a will without being worried that it won't be enforceable. Particularly for people who don't have a family/executor.

If there was such a public office, they would probably charge an administration fee, a filing surchange, stamp duty on the will itself, wear and tear on inkwells, witness tax, a yearly storage fee and more besides.

But if you are confident that you know all you need to know to make a will, why do you need a public office at all?

Arthur Daley

DSPCA were offering a will service but it's not totally free. You need to leave 500 euro or so to the cats and dogs (and assorted other animals) home. May be an option if you like animals.

15YemenRoad

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

If there was such a public office, they would probably charge an administration fee, a filing surchange, stamp duty on the will itself, wear and tear on inkwells, witness tax, a yearly storage fee and more besides.

But if you are confident that you know all you need to know to make a will, why do you need a public office at all?

Completely fair - I would be glad to pay an annual fee to such a service as long as I'm still living!

Just don't want my resources to default into distant family as they would under Irish law for those intestate.

Arthur Daley wrote: »

DSPCA were offering a will service but it's not totally free. You need to leave 500 euro or so to the cats and dogs (and assorted other animals) home. May be an option if you like animals.

This is an interesting option, thank you

pawrick

Not Dublin, but my solicitor offers free wills in Athlone. The idea being he'll get other business from you. I'm sure others would offer the same service if it's a basic will. Also many unions have deals with various firms to offer members a free will service. ring around and see how you get on it probably the best bet.

johnnyskeleton

15YemenRoad wrote: »

Completely fair - I would be glad to pay an annual fee to such a service as long as I'm still living!

Just don't want my resources to default into distant family as they would under Irish law for those intestate.

Im confused. I thought you wanted a public office because you didnt want to pay for the service? Or is it just that you dont mind paying someone so long as they are not a solicitor?

Discodog

hullaballoo wrote: »

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

People are funny.

Sore throat: go to doctor.
Sore tooth: go to dentist.
Tax problem: go to accountant.
Legal problem: be grand.

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sore throat: go to the chemist
Sore tooth: go to the dentist because there isn't an alternative
Tax problem: go the revenue. I hear that they are very helpful
Legal problem: why is the writing of a simple will a legal problem ? Yes one may well need a solicitor if there is a risk of misunderstanding.

Discodog

15YemenRoad wrote: »

I don't have an executor. I don't want my will to go missing with no one to enforce it.



Speaking as an accountant, this is a poor analogy.
In theory, all accounting/legal information should be available to all citizens.

I'm just saying I find it strange that there isn't a public facility for people who know exactly what they want to put into their will without the need for a solicitor (or accountant )

Again, I'm a single guy with no parents/siblings/dependents who wants to leave my estate to a charity, so I can't really imagine what complications this would cause.

I would of thought that this was essential otherwise who ensures that your wishes are carried out ?

Kristopherus

Discodog wrote: »

I would of thought that this was essential otherwise who ensures that your wishes are carried out ?

Correct. He will have to appoint an executor.

Mrs OBumble

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

If there was such a public office, they would probably charge an administration fee, a filing surchange, stamp duty on the will itself, wear and tear on inkwells, witness tax, a yearly storage fee and more besides.

Rubbish.

Where I come from there is an agency, called the Public Trust, which does exactly what the OP is looking for. The only fee is for execution of the will when the time comes.

They do various other useful things too.

Something every well administered country should have.

johnnyskeleton

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Rubbish.

Where I come from there is an agency, called the Public Trust, which does exactly what the OP is looking for. The only fee is for execution of the will when the time comes.

They do various other useful things too.

Something every well administered country should have.

So there is a fee? That just proves my point. The OP wanted in his OP not to have to pay but then seemed to accept that if there was a public office he would have to pay.

And in any event, comparing how public offices work in other countries with how things might work in Ireland is not a fair comparison.

HivemindXX

15YemenRoad wrote: »

Speaking as an accountant, this is a poor analogy.
In theory, all accounting/legal information should be available to all citizens.

I agree that was a very poor point to make. I don't class making a will as a "legal problem", I think it more akin to filling out form 11 for tax payment, something I did for years without needing to involve an accountant at all.

4ensic15

Discodog wrote: »

Do you have to go anywhere ? Why can't you just write it out, as per the directions, sign, witness etc & lodge it with your executor ?

People do that all the time and believe it or not, make a mess of it. It often costs far more to sort it out afterwards that the fee for making a will. There is a charity offering once a year where some solicitors will draft a will for free if the testator makes a €50 donation to charity. There is also the matter of insurance. If a solicitor makes a bags of it there will be professional indemnity insurance available. DIY wills have no such insurance. Sometimes the simplest thing going wrong can cause mayhem. What about the woman who left her land to a her grandson William?. It turned out she had two grandsons called William.

Discodog

4ensic15 wrote: »

People do that all the time and believe it or not, make a mess of it. It often costs far more to sort it out afterwards that the fee for making a will. There is a charity offering once a year where some solicitors will draft a will for free if the testator makes a €50 donation to charity. There is also the matter of insurance. If a solicitor makes a bags of it there will be professional indemnity insurance available. DIY wills have no such insurance. Sometimes the simplest thing going wrong can cause mayhem. What about the woman who left her land to a her grandson William?. It turned out she had two grandsons called William.

I have already said that, if there is any possibility of misunderstanding or one is incapable of carefully following instructions, which includes most people, then one should use a solicitor.

However there are simple cases where one doesn't need to.

OldBean

Contact the charity? They might be willing to organise something for you.

A relative of mine wrote his will on a page of a notebook and went into a local shop and got the owner and a customer to witness his signature. He only had one beneficiary. This was back in the early 1990's.

brian_t

Arthur Daley wrote: »

DSPCA were offering a will service but it's not totally free. You need to leave 500 euro or so to the cats and dogs (and assorted other animals) home. May be an option if you like animals.

Oxfam offer a service that they claim is free

FREE ONLINE WILL-WRITING SERVICE

Oxfam Ireland is the first charity partner of www.lawonline.ie which was set up to enable people to draft their own legal documents online. By using this website you can draft a wide range of legal documents, including making or amending your Will. As an Oxfam supporter we want to offer you the chance to write or amend your Will free of charge using LawOnline’s Will and Cocidil online drafting service. Also having made your Will, if you would like it to be reviewed by one of LawOnline’s solicitors, you can avail of this additional service at a significantly reduced fee. You don't have to include Oxfam Ireland in your will to take advantage of this service, but we would love it if you do.

https://www.oxfamireland.org/donate/legacy

Mrs OBumble

OP - are you over 55? If you are, maybe contact Age Concern, and see if they know anyone who does it.


No matter what option, there will be some charges for the execution / administration of your will. But you are right, it is ridiculous that there is no way to have these charges applied to your estate after you die, rather than up-front.

15YemenRoad

brian_t wrote: »

Oxfam offer a service that they claim is free


https://www.oxfamireland.org/donate/legacy

This is exactly the kind of thing I was looking for, thank you.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

OP - are you over 55? If you are, maybe contact Age Concern, and see if they know anyone who does it.


No matter what option, there will be some charges for the execution / administration of your will. But you are right, it is ridiculous that there is no way to have these charges applied to your estate after you die, rather than up-front.

No, early thirties, just realised this week I should probably have a will.

I was probably a bit naive thinking I could do it without any fee, some good options here though.

hullaballoo

I should probably apologise for being a bit sarky after a few tired and emotionals last evening but as a fully qualified practising lawyer, I paid someone else to do my will in order to have it done properly.

Even though mine is straight-forward, having the protection of having paid a professional (who has insurance) to get it done properly is worth every penny. I wouldn't have been able to rest easy with a will I was worried was open to challenge because of poor draftsmanship or because it was wrongly worded.

4ensic15

Discodog wrote: »

I have already said that, if there is any possibility of misunderstanding or one is incapable of carefully following instructions, which includes most people, then one should use a solicitor.

However there are simple cases where one doesn't need to.

There is always the possibility of an error. Even qualified solicitors make mistakes.

Peregrinus

15YemenRoad wrote: »

I don't have an executor. I don't want my will to go missing with no one to enforce it.

See, this is why you need a lawyer. Your ideas about why people have executors and what executors do are completely wrong. Before you decide whether you want to nominate an executor or not, you need advice on what executors do and why you would want one. Hint: it's nothing to do with your will going missing. And, bonus hint: not having an executor doesn't avoid the risk of your will having no-one to enforce it; it increases that risk.

Seriously, go to a solicitor for this. If you are leaving all your money to a charity, they may be happy to wear the cost involved.

Robbo

I'm reminded of a recent case in the UK that went through the High Court and Court of Appeal which involved DIY wills, an opportunistic nephew, an animal sanctuary and a purported deathbed gift. Very messy business and I doubt after costs that the poor destitute horses saw so much as a carrot.

And then we consider the possibility that your chosen good cause may not exist as an entity by the time you join the choir invisible. That needs to be provided for.