Meeting someone - time to just give up?

route9

I turned 36 this week, and there's nothing I'd like more than to meet someone and have a relationship. The thing is that I simply just can't meet anyone I really like who feels the same.

This has been the case for years and years, and during all this time I've congratulated friends and family on their engagements, gone to their weddings and been really happy for them, watched them buy houses and have kids. My oldest friend is married over 5 years and has two kids and a house, but I can't even go on a first date where we both feel something and it actually goes somewhere.

Again I am so happy for and grateful for such amazing friends and family, and I know I'm not alone here, but it has just got to the point now where I wonder why I am still bothering with online dating, trying to meet girls and so on. Fundamentally one of three things happens when I meet someone:

-They are interested but I don't fancy them
-The opposite scenario
-We both know there is no spark and we happily go our separate ways

In the past 5 days, all 3 of these scenarios has happened! Last Sunday I had a first date with a lovely girl but I just didn't fancy her, and last night scenario 3 happened - I met a girl for a first date but we both knew there was nothing there. However, I also went out last night with a group and and met a girl there I quite fancied. Later in the night we went to another bar just the two of us and kissed and it felt / seemed like it could go somewhere. We then left the bar and before she got into a taxi I asked for her number.

She looked about as doubtful as anyone could look, before she (clearly reluctantly) gave me her number. Didn't even really say goodbye or anything as she got into the taxi. It was as if she was thinking 'oh yeah I fancy you enough to kiss you but now you want my number?!' I am half thinking of texting her tomorrow but is there any point in fairness.

??!

Anyway, maybe this is just to get all this off my chest, but I really do think I'm going to start 2017 on a clean slate and literally not bother - if it does happen it happens, but if I am single for good then so be it.

Passenger

Nothing to lose by giving her a text. If she's interested she'll reply, if not then at least you'll know where you stand and move on.

dixiefly

Text her today. Say you enjoyed meeting and ask is she interested in meeting up. If she says she is then arrange something. Don't second guess her. You have nothing to lose in my opinion.

minikin

Maybe she was thinking 'why is he asking for my number rather than joining me in the taxi?'

route9

minikin wrote: »

Maybe she was thinking 'why is he asking for my number rather than joining me in the taxi?'

Ha, ah no I didn't get that vibe. We had left the bar after saying we'd go elsewhere, but it was late and she said she might get a taxi home instead.

athtrasna

Stop trying! You will meet someone when the time is right, but there's no bigger turn off than someone desperately seeking a relationship. Just relax and enjoy life. The single life has a lot going for it.

Personally I'd say don't text that girl, if she'd wanted to give you her number she would have given it to you before you asked. It was just a kiss.

route9

Yeah nothing to lose. I WhatsApped her a couple of hours ago, she's seen it but no reply yet which is fine obviously. I just said 'hey how's the head today', so if she doesn't reply to say hi then I have my answer without having to ask her!

route9

athtrasna wrote: »

Stop trying! You will meet someone when the time is right, but there's no bigger turn off than someone desperately seeking a relationship. Just relax and enjoy life. The single life has a lot going for it.

Personally I'd say don't text that girl, if she'd wanted to give you her number she would have given it to you before you asked. It was just a kiss.

Not desperate at all actually! It's not that I'm not happy single, quite the opposite in fact! I'm a good looking guy and get quite a bit of attention etc. That doesn't mean I'm not looking for something serious with someone.

I wouldn't agree as in most cases the guy will wait for the guy to ask.

Anyway I'll be really surprised if she replies as I was thinking she prob just saw it as a kiss. Either way there are other girls I'm chatting to online, but when you go on loads of dates for many years you really start to wonder!

uck51js9zml2yt

I met my wife at 39 and married 18 months later....still lots of time

Amy33

I gave up trying to meet someone at the age of 32 in 2008, after a long line of disappointments. For me it was the right decision, I became a much happier and content person and am glad my dating days are behind me.

Having said that I can see how my decision may seem drastic to some and I only know a handful of people who have made the same decision.

route9

Amy33 wrote: »

I gave up trying to meet someone at the age of 32 in 2008, after a long line of disappointments. For me it was the right decision, I became a much happier and content person and am glad my dating days are behind me.

Having said that I can see how my decision may seem drastic to some and I only know a handful of people who have made the same decision.

Right I see...I think a big part of it for me as well is that I love meeting new people and am pretty sociable. Dating for me is actually enjoyable and I am grateful I do get to go on a lot of them. I suppose it's just you want to have that feeling at some point of 'oh wait, we both know we are defo going to see each other again and this feels different'. When you go years without that happening it's just...

Anyway, all good - the single life is great too and I know that whenever I give it up it's going to be for someone I am really into. That said, I don't see myself doing online dating this time next year - will give it another 6-9 months tops.

Merkin

I think you really need to knock dating on the head for a while. You mention three different dates/encounters in the space of five days. If that is indicative of the frequency/urgency with which you approach dating then you probably *are* coming across as a little too anxious.

Delete yourself from dating sites and apps for a few months and just chill out by taking the pressure off.

route9

Merkin wrote: »

I think you really need to knock dating on the head for a while. You mention three different dates/encounters in the space of five days. If that is indicative of the frequency/urgency with which you approach dating then you probably *are* coming across as a little too anxious.

Delete yourself from dating sites and apps for a few months and just chill out by taking the pressure off.

Yes you are probably right and I was thinking the same. I don't think I am though, if anything it's the opposite - I am very casual on dates and will have a laugh / take the piss a little, etc.

With the girl I mentioned above, she said she isn't looking to date right now and I replied saying that was cool and that I might see her at another event soon, etc. She replied saying she wasn't expecting that at all (presumably she thought I'd be frustrated or whatever).

But I have been thinking that I'll go on one or two more before Christmas, and then after that I'm deleting them all and starting off the New Year afresh.

Ursus Horribilis

I was thinking I recognised your username. It's no length of time since you were asking should you end things with your last girlfriend http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057663437

You'd need to be careful here. Sometimes desperation and fear of being single can lead to people making poor decisions. You're a 36 year old man so you've got time on your side still. Chill the beans and stop trying so hard.

route9

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I was thinking I recognised your username. It's no length of time since you were asking should you end things with your last girlfriend http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057663437

You'd need to be careful here. Sometimes desperation and fear of being single can lead to people making poor decisions. You're a 36 year old man so you've got time on your side still. Chill the beans and stop trying so hard.

I agree with half of that. I'm in no way desperate and never have been - sure why would I have been looking to break it off in that thread above if I was. I even said above that the single life is great, so zero fear of being single! I could go out with someone tomorrow I am sure, but I wouldn't unless I was really feeling something for them.

I do agree with you though that I should adopt a take it as it comes approach, and look on things as 'whatever happens, happens'. If I stay single that's fine too at the end of the day.

batmanrobin

route9 wrote: »

I agree with half of that. I'm in no way desperate and never have been - sure why would I have been looking to break it off in that thread above if I was. I even said above that the single life is great, so zero fear of being single! I could go out with someone tomorrow I am sure, but I wouldn't unless I was really feeling something for them.

I do agree with you though that I should adopt a take it as it comes approach, and look on things as 'whatever happens, happens'. If I stay single that's fine too at the end of the day.

Perhaps not desperate in the sense that you'll settle, but desperate in the sense that you'll stampede through women to find someone to settle down with? Do you find yourself cycling through women, OP, hopping from one to another, or is it more you date, doesn't work, take a break, date again etc?

Personally, as a women, it would put my guard up if a guy I was interested in didn't have periods of just being single. Perhaps I'm in a minority, but I'd worry about someone who couldn't be alone. Apologies if I've got you wrong. You did say you're okay with being single, but obviously not okay enough. You have started a thread about it after all.

If things in the dating world haven't been working out, maybe take a break from trying to find someone. It's not about giving up and thinking it's never going to happen, more about focussing on your life and your interests and not engaging in the chase too much.

route9

batmanrobin wrote: »

Perhaps not desperate in the sense that you'll settle, but desperate in the sense that you'll stampede through women to find someone to settle down with? Do you find yourself cycling through women, OP, hopping from one to another, or is it more you date, doesn't work, take a break, date again etc?

If by hopping from one to another you mean meeting one, realising there is no spark after a first date, or maybe it fizzles out after a few dates before going on more dates - then yes that's the case. I wouldn't say 'stampede' as such, but I definitely could have one or maybe even two dates in a given week, maybe one the following week, etc.

Really it's just that it really has been many, many years since I met someone I fancied who felt the same. That's pretty much it and I just wonder why it seems so tricky!

Instead of planning and pursuing all the time I'm now seeing I should just chill out, go on the odd date but mainly just let what happens happen. And if nothing does that's ok too as I've lots going on otherwise anyway.

batmanrobin wrote: »

Personally, as a women, it would put my guard up if a guy I was interested in didn't have periods of just being single. Perhaps I'm in a minority, but I'd worry about someone who couldn't be alone. Apologies if I've got you wrong. You did say you're okay with being single, but obviously not okay enough. You have started a thread about it after all.

No I can definitely be alone, I really enjoy my own company so no worries there So it's the other way around really! Especially since I've been single for a far greater amount time than I've been in relationships.

batmanrobin wrote: »

If things in the dating world haven't been working out, maybe take a break from trying to find someone. It's not about giving up and thinking it's never going to happen, more about focussing on your life and your interests and not engaging in the chase too much.

Yeah true, as I said above I think it's just about chilling out and instead of always pursuing, just being content to sit back and not be chasing all the time. I already have a lot going on in terms of interests - side projects, working out, events, etc - so I am busy enough as it is anyway!

pilly

Just from my experience, I was thinking last night about a relationship I had some years ago that was fantastic and suited both of us fine. I ended it because it wasn't "going anywhere". Now I'm thinking, where exactly did I want to go? I suppose maybe it's different for me as I've done the whole marriage and kids already but still, it's one of my biggest regrets that I ended that relationship for no valid reason really.

santana75

minikin wrote: »

Maybe she was thinking 'why is he asking for my number rather than joining me in the taxi?'

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This Op. I was reading your post and thinking, why is he asking for a number and not just going for it when the girl is right in front of him??? Maybe you believe there has to be formal courting or something like that, but thats nonsense, take your chances when you get them in the moment and forget about formalities.

beks101

You sound like someone with a serious case of online dating fatigue. I think you should forget about the sites and the apps and the swiping and messaging for a while and just get back to basics, re-focus your life, re-connect with friends and hobbies and start enjoying yourself without the Groundhog Day of dates with women you're completely "meh" about.

Online dating is great for meeting people you wouldn't otherwise bump into, but IME after a certain point it can become counter-productive. Because when you meet someone in person, 9 times out of 10 there's no spark despite them being lovely (chemistry being the elusive thing it is) and when you're going on those "lovely but" dates several times a week, you get jaded really quickly and lose enthusiasm for the whole thing. And can get a bit ADD about it all due to the nature of these apps - why go on a second date with this one, when the next one might be a better match? etc.

I've spent loads of time single, did the online dating thing, but I've never met a long-term partner that way as I just found it exhausting, contrived and a massive waste of time in the end. When you meet someone by other means, that weird pressure of "DO I FANCY THEM? DO THEY FANCY ME?" just isn't there from your first meeting and you don't tend to get into the same head-melting situations with people (as per your other thread) because you know instantly if there's a vibe there or there's not. There's a mystery and an excitement that never transpired for me in the world of online.

I'd say your best course of action is to quit all the dating, get a bit excited about the prospect of meeting someone new again. Become more socially active and have a bit of a laissez-faire attitude towards meeting someone for a while - if you're out and about and like someone, take the bull by the horns, you never know what could happen. Most women appreciate being asked out by a goodlooking fella, doesn't happen enough in Ireland if you ask me! Text that girl, see what the craic is. Ask people out in real life if the mood takes you. Tinder and POF and OKCupid and all that jazz are going nowhere, you can always log back on in a few months if you feel like it.

route9

santana75 wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ This Op. I was reading your post and thinking, why is he asking for a number and not just going for it when the girl is right in front of him??? Maybe you believe there has to be formal courting or something like that, but thats nonsense, take your chances when you get them in the moment and forget about formalities.

Ahh don't be saying that - I'm thinking now that maybe you're right! She wanted to kiss after all, maybe it could have progressed from there. I just felt she was ready to go home but maybe she was ready to go home with me also. I briefly thought of suggesting it before we left the bar, but then kinda thought she would decline as maybe she's not the type...but she could have easily said yes perhaps.

That said, maybe it was for the best anyway, because she said on Sunday that she isn't looking to date, so even if she did come back it wouldn't have gone any further than that.

Either way we both said we should see each other again in a few weeks at another night out, and so who knows what might happen then.

route9

beks101 wrote: »

You sound like someone with a serious case of online dating fatigue. I think you should forget about the sites and the apps and the swiping and messaging for a while and just get back to basics, re-focus your life, re-connect with friends and hobbies and start enjoying yourself without the Groundhog Day of dates with women you're completely "meh" about.

Online dating is great for meeting people you wouldn't otherwise bump into, but IME after a certain point it can become counter-productive. Because when you meet someone in person, 9 times out of 10 there's no spark despite them being lovely (chemistry being the elusive thing it is) and when you're going on those "lovely but" dates several times a week, you get jaded really quickly and lose enthusiasm for the whole thing. And can get a bit ADD about it all due to the nature of these apps - why go on a second date with this one, when the next one might be a better match? etc.

I've spent loads of time single, did the online dating thing, but I've never met a long-term partner that way as I just found it exhausting, contrived and a massive waste of time in the end. When you meet someone by other means, that weird pressure of "DO I FANCY THEM? DO THEY FANCY ME?" just isn't there from your first meeting and you don't tend to get into the same head-melting situations with people (as per your other thread) because you know instantly if there's a vibe there or there's not. There's a mystery and an excitement that never transpired for me in the world of online.

I'd say your best course of action is to quit all the dating, get a bit excited about the prospect of meeting someone new again. Become more socially active and have a bit of a laissez-faire attitude towards meeting someone for a while - if you're out and about and like someone, take the bull by the horns, you never know what could happen. Most women appreciate being asked out by a goodlooking fella, doesn't happen enough in Ireland if you ask me! Text that girl, see what the craic is. Ask people out in real life if the mood takes you. Tinder and POF and OKCupid and all that jazz are going nowhere, you can always log back on in a few months if you feel like it.

Totally agree Beks, I suppose the thing is that online dating is such an easy option, and when you can go on lots of dates it's easy to see it as a good option at times I suppose. I deleted a couple of apps earlier but only a few hours ago a girl I quite like the look of sent me a first message....she wants to chat again and meet up 'if I'm interested'. So I suppose when you delete them that obviously doesn't happen any more.

Either way I totally agree that it skews things in terms of the 'do I fancy them' thing - it just doesn't come up when you meet someone in real life. It's something I'd only been thinking lately myself. It feels so much more enjoyable and natural to just meet someone out, chat, have a laugh and maybe end up kissing. Plus the all important factor of knowing you fancy them from the get-go.

Regardless I'll be taking that laid back attitude from here on in. My motto from now is 'if I meet someone, great - if not I'll still have fun'.

Turtle_

I'm a few years younger than you, so my circle of friends and acquaintances are only starting to get married, so I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to be trying to figure out why it's not happening for you.

The thing is, it sounds a bit like you're looking in the wrong places. Clubs... Meh, you can barely talk to the person, they're more of a place to look for a casual hook up. Online? People are never as they seem online.

I really believe you'd be better off letting things grosw organically. Stop pursuing a relationship and just live your life. Socialise and try hobbies and be open to making a few new friends. One might end up being a girl who you click with. Alternatively, take a break for 6 weeks and enjoy Christmas. In the new year, ask a friend to set you up on a date. You need to have things really in common with the other person, which is really difficult to achieve if you stick to online dating and clubs..

beks101

route9 wrote: »

Totally agree Beks, I suppose the thing is that online dating is such an easy option, and when you can go on lots of dates it's easy to see it as a good option at times I suppose. I deleted a couple of apps earlier but only a few hours ago a girl I quite like the look of sent me a first message....she wants to chat again and meet up 'if I'm interested'. So I suppose when you delete them that obviously doesn't happen any more.

But if you're not getting anywhere with it, what's the point? If the same three scenarios that you outlined in your OP keep happening with every online date, isn't it just a waste of energy at this stage? If it was just a bit of harmless fun and you didn't really give a damn, you wouldn't have started this thread.

I fully agree that you have to be open to everything when you're single and hoping to meet someone, but a certain amount of practicality is important too. Look at your problem - frustration, hopelessness, boredom with the same dating outcomes - look at what you're doing - going on multiple online dates a week - look for the solution. Online dating is not part of it. It's breeding this attitude of "time to give up?"in you.

I don't think you should give up. But I think you should reassess. Delete all the apps for the next five weeks and get out there and enjoy the festive season. Go to all the work dos and Christmas parties and friend get-togethers and NY events and focus on enjoying yourself, have a flirt with whoever takes your fancy. I've always found dating a lot more exciting when it happens organically, someone catches your eye in a pub, you end up bantering with a friend's friend at a house party, you have a cheeky kiss and things move on from there.

Don't use the apps as a crutch for a few weeks, get some headspace from them and see how you feel.

route9

beks101 wrote: »

But if you're not getting anywhere with it, what's the point? If the same three scenarios that you outlined in your OP keep happening with every online date, isn't it just a waste of energy at this stage? If it was just a bit of harmless fun and you didn't really give a damn, you wouldn't have started this thread.

I fully agree that you have to be open to everything when you're single and hoping to meet someone, but a certain amount of practicality is important too. Look at your problem - frustration, hopelessness, boredom with the same dating outcomes - look at what you're doing - going on multiple online dates a week - look for the solution. Online dating is not part of it. It's breeding this attitude of "time to give up?"in you.

I don't think you should give up. But I think you should reassess. Delete all the apps for the next five weeks and get out there and enjoy the festive season. Go to all the work dos and Christmas parties and friend get-togethers and NY events and focus on enjoying yourself, have a flirt with whoever takes your fancy. I've always found dating a lot more exciting when it happens organically, someone catches your eye in a pub, you end up bantering with a friend's friend at a house party, you have a cheeky kiss and things move on from there.

Don't use the apps as a crutch for a few weeks, get some headspace from them and see how you feel.

Yeah I do think you are spot on - it is tempting to 'just see' when it comes to online dating. As I think someone said earlier (or to paraphrase them perhaps), there is always one more person to chat to and one more date to go on. But like you say, why would you do it at all if it leads nowhere.

I do get out a lot and would be very sociable - more so than I used to be (and I was before too), as there are loads of MeetUp and Facebook groups out there and there is always something on. In the past though I definitely wasn't as active with these and to a large extent going on online dates would have been a social thing, and I'd rely on that more than just getting out to regular events and meeting new people.

So I do believe I'll be better off without online, and if I just get stuck into more of these events and meetups. Like you say I'd much prefer to meet someone that way, and even if I don't then I'll still be meeting lots of new people and having the craic anyway.

I have one more online date on Thursday that we arranged at the weekend - I guess this may be my last one! This other girl who messaged me last night is keen to meet, but maybe I won't. Either way I won't be initiating any more online chats / dates!

route9

Turtle_ wrote: »

I'm a few years younger than you, so my circle of friends and acquaintances are only starting to get married, so I can only imagine how frustrating it must be to be trying to figure out why it's not happening for you.

The thing is, it sounds a bit like you're looking in the wrong places. Clubs... Meh, you can barely talk to the person, they're more of a place to look for a casual hook up. Online? People are never as they seem online.

I really believe you'd be better off letting things grosw organically. Stop pursuing a relationship and just live your life. Socialise and try hobbies and be open to making a few new friends. One might end up being a girl who you click with. Alternatively, take a break for 6 weeks and enjoy Christmas. In the new year, ask a friend to set you up on a date. You need to have things really in common with the other person, which is really difficult to achieve if you stick to online dating and clubs..

Yeah, like I said below I think the only future is in meeting people in real life. Going hiking, running, away on trips, events, day-trips, nights out, even holidays, etc. I've done these things here and there in the past with people I don't know (as opposed to friends who are now settling down, having kids etc.), but I'm looking forward to making it in a central focus from now and into 2017 and beyond.

Rekop dog

From skimming through your post history it seems like you've been starting threads/commenting in others on this issue for a few years now.

Seems like you're attracting plenty of attention which is half the battle, your online chat must be decent. If they're agreeing to meet up with you they must find you interesting or attractive or possibly both, and I'm sure a lot of them set out(like you) with hope that it might develop into something more. You're falling down on whatever approach you're taking when you meet them in real life.

Without getting too much into 'gamey' type of analysis, from what you say the ones you often like aren't into you and ones you don't like are interested in you. You're probably not aware that the body language you're displaying on dates were you're not really into it is the thing that's actually attracting those to you. Women early in dating like a challenge and hate having it easy so your disinterest plays on her insecurities and makes you far more compelling to her.

If you train yourself to act like that with women you actually like, display active disinterest with them, you'll find yourself having far more success and calling the shots.

Jenneke87

Have to disagree here. I see this "advice" on a lot of red pill websites and I seriously doubt it works, not to mention that it sounds highly manipulative. "He displayed zero interest, I must work harder to make him like me", thought no woman ever, we're not puppies to be trained. If you like someone please don't start playing headgames like this. Tell her honestly if you like her and also if you don't. Don't be headwreck. Simple as....

DoozerT6

Rekop dog wrote: »

If you train yourself to act like that with women you actually like, display active disinterest with them, you'll find yourself having far more success and calling the shots.

What?? No.

Back to Wall Street with you.

route9

Rekop dog wrote: »

From skimming through your post history it seems like you've been starting threads/commenting in others on this issue for a few years now.

Seems like you're attracting plenty of attention which is half the battle, your online chat must be decent. If they're agreeing to meet up with you they must find you interesting or attractive or possibly both, and I'm sure a lot of them set out(like you) with hope that it might develop into something more. You're falling down on whatever approach you're taking when you meet them in real life.

Without getting too much into 'gamey' type of analysis, from what you say the ones you often like aren't into you and ones you don't like are interested in you. You're probably not aware that the body language you're displaying on dates were you're not really into it is the thing that's actually attracting those to you. Women early in dating like a challenge and hate having it easy so your disinterest plays on her insecurities and makes you far more compelling to her.

If you train yourself to act like that with women you actually like, display active disinterest with them, you'll find yourself having far more success and calling the shots.

It's funny you say that as with the last girl I broke up with one of the first things she said was 'I made it too easy for you' - she was shaking her head. I knew that she liked me from the first date and while that wasn't the reason I wasn't feeling we were a match, maybe it did play some part...

I was going to say that what you are saying does resonate with me, but that others would reply disagreeing with you (which they have ). Now, the number of girls who I have met and fancied is actually quite small, but I am realising now that they surely did know I was into them. I am generally relaxed on dates and will have fun with the girl, slag them a little bit, etc.

Then, if I feel they are into it, it is quite possible that they can immediately see that I am into them...and maybe that makes them less interested. But part of the reason is that I figure they are interested too!

I am not sure, I do know that on the last couple of dates I was REALLY relaxed and must have seemed like I didn't care at all. In fact the last girl thought that I looked bored on our first date!

I do think there is something to it - not in the sense of being manipulative but in just having a really laid back attitude when you do like someone. My feeling is that regardless of gender, seeming just a little unattainable is always attractive in its own right.

batmanrobin

[Without getting too much into 'gamey' type of analysis, from what you say the ones you often like aren't into you and ones you don't like are interested in you. You're probably not aware that the body language you're displaying on dates were you're not really into it is the thing that's actually attracting those to you. Women early in dating like a challenge and hate having it easy so your disinterest plays on her insecurities and makes you far more compelling to her.

If you train yourself to act like that with women you actually like, display active disinterest with them, you'll find yourself having far more success and calling the shots.[/quote]

Absolutely, 100% do not do this!! Act like a jackass and any decent women will drop you like a hot potato. The only women you'll do well with if you follow those pathetic, juvenile games are ones with massive insecurities who are clingy and needy.

If any grown man has to resort to games like that to get a woman's attention, ugh! Pathetic!

As a woman, OP, I'll tell you what many women want: someone who is decent, has his sh*t together, respects himself and others and doesn't act like an emotionally stunted 14 year old.

Don't over complicate, don't play games, things will either fall into place for you or they won't. You can't really do much other than what you've been doing. Accept that not everyone finds someone. Such is life.

Dr Crayfish

OP. I'm a male the same age as you. My story is pretty similar to yours I guess. I have been on and off online dating for not far off 2 years now with no good connections made really.
I had a date on Saturday, it was all very nice, good fun, no awkwardness, then it was just a goodbye and awkward hug/kiss scenario. I wasn't even sure if I really liked her or not but asked her out again the following evening to which I got a wishy washy response and communication is waaaay less now than it was before we met! So I've decided to write that one off and I just deleted my dating account, having read some of the advice on this thread.
I think with the amount of unremarkable dates and let downs when I thought someone might be a good match add up, and it wears you down. I just can't be bothered right now so I'm going to forget about dating/women for a while.

So yeah OP, maybe a break from all of this stuff is what you need to do

Rekop dog

route9 wrote: »

I do think there is something to it - not in the sense of being manipulative but in just having a really laid back attitude when you do like someone. My feeling is that regardless of gender, seeming just a little unattainable is always attractive in its own right.

Yeah the psychology behind seduction is often so counter intuitive that most people's natural inclinations are very wide of the mark. The worst review you could possibly get from a woman after a date is along the lines
"that was nice but I didn't really feel a spark". Do everything in your power on dates from the outset to make sure you never receive one of those texts a few days later again.

route9

Rekop dog wrote: »

Yeah the psychology behind seduction is often so counter intuitive that most people's natural inclinations are very wide of the mark. The worst review you could possibly get from a woman after a date is along the lines
"that was nice but I didn't really feel a spark". Do everything in your power on dates from the outset to make sure you never receive one of those texts a few days later again.

I tend to agree and at first glance it looks like 'game playing' but that's not always the case and playing games is for kids anyway.

I have gotten my share of 'nice / good night, but didn't really feel the spark - best of luck' texts. I almost feel like good looking girls I fancy just feel like I am a good-looking, lovely guy, and that's it. My guess is that they more used to feeling challenged and having to work / figure out a guy.

They aren't motivated by knowing someone fancies them as much as they are by thinking a guy is attractive but also thinking that they might have to work just a little for him (even a tiny bit). To me it makes sense to be just that bit more laid back and laissez faire when you do meet someone you like, as opposed to fairly obviously looking and feeling (to the girl) that you are interested and you are hoping she is too.

batmanrobin

route9 wrote: »

I tend to agree and at first glance it looks like 'game playing' but that's not always the case and playing games is for kids anyway.

I have gotten my share of 'nice / good night, but didn't really feel the spark - best of luck' texts. I almost feel like good looking girls I fancy just feel like I am a good-looking, lovely guy, and that's it. My guess is that they more used to feeling challenged and having to work / figure out a guy.

They aren't motivated by knowing someone fancies them as much as they are by thinking a guy is attractive but also thinking that they might have to work just a little for him (even a tiny bit). To me it makes sense to be just that bit more laid back and laissez faire when you do meet someone you like, as opposed to fairly obviously looking and feeling (to the girl) that you are interested and you are hoping she is too.

It's a fine line, OP. If you come across as desperately eager, that is of course off putting (for both genders). Likewise if you play it "too cool" you run the risk of them thinking you're not interested and giving you the chop. Hard to go wrong with a happy medium.

Pretty much every woman I know has an intense dislike for PUA. You know the kind of man who thinks playing mind games and generally acting like an ass is the way to keep women interested. Most women aren't going to want to know you if you're coming across as too much like hard work. Mainly because the whole thing is meant to be fun and easy, not a chore.

Women aren't another species, as much as the PUAs try to make us out to be. We like normal and down to earth. Just be normal. Forget the PUA crap.

njs030

route9 wrote: »

I tend to agree and at first glance it looks like 'game playing' but that's not always the case and playing games is for kids anyway.

I have gotten my share of 'nice / good night, but didn't really feel the spark - best of luck' texts. I almost feel like good looking girls I fancy just feel like I am a good-looking, lovely guy, and that's it. My guess is that they more used to feeling challenged and having to work / figure out a guy.

They aren't motivated by knowing someone fancies them as much as they are by thinking a guy is attractive but also thinking that they might have to work just a little for him (even a tiny bit). To me it makes sense to be just that bit more laid back and laissez faire when you do meet someone you like, as opposed to fairly obviously looking and feeling (to the girl) that you are interested and you are hoping she is too.

Another woman here and another one telling him that advice is rubbish and the only woman you'll attract is insecure drama queens.

Showing interest is good, making her "work for it" is boring - believe me when I say that women that are attractive, interesting, confident and fun to spend time with will have other options who aren't messing her around and will move on faster than you and rekop dog can think of a game plan.

Rekop dog

route9 wrote: »

They aren't motivated by knowing someone fancies them as much as they are by thinking a guy is attractive but also thinking that they might have to work just a little for him (even a tiny bit). To me it makes sense to be just that bit more laid back and laissez faire when you do meet someone you like, as opposed to fairly obviously looking and feeling (to the girl) that you are interested and you are hoping she is too.

Yeah even effective with the best looking/most confident women, they have it so easy usually with lads fawning over them, so when this isn't the case it peaks their curiosity and gives them a challenge/excitement they're not used to.

Women will come on with faux outrage here telling you it's rubbish, be yourself ect, but you've been doing that for years to no avail. They're the same people who you'll date and then either ghost you or tell you you're lovely but they're not into it. The most common threads on this forum are women who say they really like this guy they've met recently but complain about him being flaky.

You can have all the best intentions in the world and revert to nice guy a few dates in, she'll actually appreciate it all the more as she'll think she's won you over and brought this out of you, but it's key to have a bit of machiavellian spirit at the beginning. A strong set of morals won't keep you warm at night.

route9

batmanrobin wrote: »

It's a fine line, OP. If you come across as desperately eager, that is of course off putting (for both genders). Likewise if you play it "too cool" you run the risk of them thinking you're not interested and giving you the chop. Hard to go wrong with a happy medium.

That is what logic would say, but because attraction isn't logical girls don't give guys the chop when they don't seem to be as interested as a girl hopes/wants. Instead of giving them the chop they are even more into the guy, will complain about his flakiness to their friends and post on the likes of Boards asking for advice?

If you really like someone you'll do anything BUT give him the chop - it's usually a last resort after you've tried texting him a few times and gotten advice on it from all your friends!

notjustsweet wrote: »

Another woman here and another one telling him that advice is rubbish and the only woman you'll attract is insecure drama queens.

Showing interest is good, making her "work for it" is boring - believe me when I say that women that are attractive, interesting, confident and fun to spend time with will have other options who aren't messing her around and will move on faster than you and rekop dog can think of a game plan.

Again, that's the logical train of thought and what you would like to be the case I would say - that you are a confident independent woman who will move on very quickly from any guy who doesn't just 'act like himself' and text you back promptly, etc. But in reality the guy who doesn't text back or who seems a little aloof is probably one you are going to be more interested in.

If you weren't interested you would have already moved on regardless of what he was or wasn't doing!

njs030

route9 wrote: »

Again, that's the logical train of thought and what you would like to be the case I would say - that you are a confident independent woman who will move on very quickly from any guy who doesn't just 'act like himself' and text you back promptly, etc. But in reality the guy who doesn't text back or who seems a little aloof is probably one you are going to be more interested in.

There's a difference between someone who genuinely has a life and is busy and someone who is playing games or acting aloof. Most men or women with any amount of self esteem can't abide the second.

Would I walk away from someone who doesn't reply promptly? Of course not, he's not my puppet and we both have lives. Though if I thought he was sitting there deliberately ignoring my message to show me he wasn't interested I'd think he was a fool and move on. Why wouldn't a man who liked me want me to know he was interested in me? How very unbelievably childish!

route9

Rekop dog wrote: »

Yeah even effective with the best looking/most confident women, they have it so easy usually with lads fawning over them, so when this isn't the case it peaks their curiosity and gives them a challenge/excitement they're not used to.

Women will come on with faux outrage here telling you it's rubbish, be yourself ect, but you've been doing that for years to no avail. They're the same people who you'll date and then either ghost you or tell you you're lovely but they're not into it. The most common threads on this forum are women who say they really like this guy they've met recently but complain about him being flaky.

You can have all the best intentions in the world and revert to nice guy a few dates in, she'll actually appreciate it all the more as she'll think she's won you over and brought this out of you, but it's key to have a bit of machiavellian spirit at the beginning. A strong set of morals won't keep you warm at night.

I think it's most effective with those and I don't see this as 'game-playing', just simple common sense. Where do the phrases 'play it cool' and 'treat em mean' (not in a literal sense!) come from after all.

Sure haven't girls been reading the same advice from the likes of Cosmopolitan and other magazines for how many years? '10 ways to snag the man you want', etc etc..

I am interested in psychology and I think of it like this actually: Suppose 5 people are in line for a promotion at work - let's call the new position 'Position A'. Position A also represents the guy in any given scenario, where a girl is at least initially attracted to the guy.

Now if it turns out that all 5 people get promoted to Position A, how attracted is each person to their new position? Probably not very, and it's not because Position A isn't attractive, it's just that it would be MORE attractive if only one person got promoted to the position.

So in other words, it's not a reflection on the position (guy), but simple psychology at work - the position / guy would have attracted the person more if it / he was harder to get.

I also think it's so universally accepted and even the dogs on the street that girls (particularly the most good-looking girls) are more attracted to those guys that seem a bit flaky, a bit aloof, a bit like they have lots of attention and lots of options and while they may like you, they are still liable to not text back and have you wondering why.

I am on a few FB groups with loads of mainly single girls and guys (but there are way more girls), and if I had a euro for every time I've seen a girl posting about a guy who ghosted her, didn't text back, was flaky or cancelled plans, etc - I'd be all set for Christmas!

Funnily enough only on Monday there was a guy posting asking for advice on why a girl he had a great date with eventually texting saying she thought he was lovely but wasn't looking for anything more with him. He had a raft of responses from girls telling him he was 'such an amazing, lovely guy and would find someone' - and he was signing them off with 'thanks, you're such a great friend, xxx'!

I had one girl I was dating a couple of years back who I met at a speed dating event. She said afterwards that 10 guys had said yes to her and she had only said yes to me. She was very good looking and no doubt had every guy in town after her.

We went on a good few dates and while I was playful and slagged her as I usually do when seeing someone, she would have known I liked her but after a while she did string me along a bit and eventually ghosted me. I would be there of an evening wondering why she hadn't texted back, etc. I am pretty sure that if I had held back more and been more laissez-faire, it might have been very different.

route9

notjustsweet wrote: »

There's a difference between someone who genuinely has a life and is busy and someone who is playing games or acting aloof. Most men or women with any amount of self esteem can't abide the second.

Would I walk away from someone who doesn't reply promptly? Of course not, he's not my puppet and we both have lives. Though if I thought he was sitting there deliberately ignoring my message to show me he wasn't interested I'd think he was a fool and move on. Why wouldn't a man who liked me want me to know he was interested in me? How very unbelievably childish!

I think that's a little simplistic.

On the part in bold, how would you know the difference? I don't see how it is childish to play it a little cool at the start - that's the exact advice women's magazines have been giving since the dawn of time, is it not? 'Make him work for it', etc.

There's a big difference between that and playing games. Plus it's not about a guy not wanting you to know he is interested in you. As I see it it's about playing it cool and neutral at the start, no harm in that.

How many times have you heard a girl talk about a guy in the context of not knowing how much he likes her, if he 'really is' interested, or if he seems a bit flaky? When she is talking in that way it's never that she isn't into him (because she would have already moved on) - it's always the case that she really does like him!

njs030

route9 wrote: »

I think that's a little simplistic.

On the part in bold, how would you know the difference? I don't see how it is childish to play it a little cool at the start - that's the exact advice women's magazines have been giving since the dawn of time, is it not? 'Make him work for it', etc.

There's a big difference between that and playing games. Plus it's not about a guy not wanting you to know he is interested in you. As I see it it's about playing it cool and neutral at the start, no harm in that.

How many times have you heard a girl talk about a guy in the context of not knowing how much he likes her, if he 'really is' interested, or if he seems a bit flaky? When she is talking in that way it's never that she isn't into him (because she would have already moved on) - it's always the case that she really does like him!

The only type of woman you're referring to over and over as someone who'd be interested in a man that is flakey, playing games, hot and cold etc is very insecure and loves the drama. That drama would be carried into any relationship in the form of rows and storming out, slamming doors etc.
If that's who floats your boat then go for it.

If you prefer someone with self esteem and confident then treat her with respect and don't try mind games. There's a difference between showing an interest and being completely over the top puppy dog. You can still leave her (or him) wanting more without being a head wrecker.

batmanrobin

notjustsweet wrote: »

The only type of woman you're referring to over and over as someone who'd be interested in a man that is flakey, playing games, hot and cold etc is very insecure and loves the drama. That drama would be carried into any relationship in the form of rows and storming out, slamming doors etc.
If that's who floats your boat then go for it.

If you prefer someone with self esteem and confident then treat her with respect and don't try mind games. There's a difference between showing an interest and being completely over the top puppy dog. You can still leave her (or him) wanting more without being a head wrecker.

Second this!

OP, you can listen to Rekop Dog, a man who thinks he knows what women want, or you can listen to actual women who are telling you how it is.

I am speaking from experience here, OP. I was the insecure, painfully so, woman who had no self worth and would happily accept scraps. One guy in particular did the hot/cold head melting thing. When he would pull away, it made me try harder, it also made me question myself, feel really bad about myself and wonder what I was doing wrong. That type of man is an assh*le. Are you that type of man, OP?

The funny thing, as soon as I started to work on myself and get more confident, I had zero trouble telling him where to go. I liked him a lot, but the way he behaved towards me soured it and once I had my confidence back there wasn't a snowballs chance in hell I was going to put up with it.

Again, I would reiterate, well rounded, confident women will have no trouble dropping a guy who is a head melter. Regardless of how much they like him. I've seen it with myself, friends, sisters etc. I have also seen the reverse where the women don't have confidence and will tolerate juvenile games.

It comes down to the type of man you are, OP. Assh*le or decent.

pilly

batmanrobin wrote: »

Second this!

OP, you can listen to Rekop Dog, a man who thinks he knows what women want, or you can listen to actual women who are telling you how it is.

I am speaking from experience here, OP. I was the insecure, painfully so, woman who had no self worth and would happily accept scraps. One guy in particular did the hot/cold head melting thing. When he would pull away, it made me try harder, it also made me question myself, feel really bad about myself and wonder what I was doing wrong. That type of man is an assh*le. Are you that type of man, OP?

The funny thing, as soon as I started to work on myself and get more confident, I had zero trouble telling him where to go. I liked him a lot, but the way he behaved towards me soured it and once I had my confidence back there wasn't a snowballs chance in hell I was going to put up with it.

Again, I would reiterate, well rounded, confident women will have no trouble dropping a guy who is a head melter. Regardless of how much they like him. I've seen it with myself, friends, sisters etc. I have also seen the reverse where the women don't have confidence and will tolerate juvenile games.

It comes down to the type of man you are, OP. Assh*le or decent.

Well put, it really depends on whether or not you want a confident partner or someone who's needy I suppose.

Rekop dog

batmanrobin wrote: »

Second this!

OP, you can listen to Rekop Dog, a man who thinks he knows what women want, or you can listen to actual women who are telling you how it is.

I am speaking from experience here, OP. I was the insecure, painfully so, woman who had no self worth and would happily accept scraps. One guy in particular did the hot/cold head melting thing. When he would pull away, it made me try harder, it also made me question myself, feel really bad about myself and wonder what I was doing wrong. That type of man is an assh*le. Are you that type of man, OP?

I liked him a lot,

Talk about a ringing endorsement from the biggest detractor of this approach. I don't doubt for a second if you liked someone again in the future you'd react similarly to his flakiness.

Listen the OP came here with the issues of being a serial dater but never having success with those he'd like to, admitted he's been to forward with his interest in those. I've never said to be an arsehole, just to leave her wondering for a bit, and try present himself as a prize worth winning in a non boastful way. Still has to be interesting and fun to be around, but needs to stir very clear of getting a potential review afterwards such as 'you were lovely'.

route9

batmanrobin wrote: »

Second this!

OP, you can listen to Rekop Dog, a man who thinks he knows what women want, or you can listen to actual women who are telling you how it is.

I am speaking from experience here, OP. I was the insecure, painfully so, woman who had no self worth and would happily accept scraps. One guy in particular did the hot/cold head melting thing. When he would pull away, it made me try harder, it also made me question myself, feel really bad about myself and wonder what I was doing wrong. That type of man is an assh*le. Are you that type of man, OP?

The funny thing, as soon as I started to work on myself and get more confident, I had zero trouble telling him where to go. I liked him a lot, but the way he behaved towards me soured it and once I had my confidence back there wasn't a snowballs chance in hell I was going to put up with it.

Again, I would reiterate, well rounded, confident women will have no trouble dropping a guy who is a head melter. Regardless of how much they like him. I've seen it with myself, friends, sisters etc. I have also seen the reverse where the women don't have confidence and will tolerate juvenile games.

It comes down to the type of man you are, OP. Assh*le or decent.

Well I was going to say that it sounds like you and the other posters are projecting from direct experience - hence all these recent posts?

Again it's not about being manipulative or game-playing, it's just about being a little bit restrained, aloof and cool - nothing wrong with that surely! I am sure girls do it all the time too.

I will say that I don't feel I have been overly eager with girls I've liked in the past, but that's just what I feel and might not necessarily be true. As mentioned it could also have been the case that my body language was showing I was clearly interested, and I even think of how I was on dates with girls I liked (pretty chatty, sitting up at the table) vs those I wasn't really interested in (sitting back in my chair, really casual and laid back).

Nobody is suggesting playing games or messing people around, but it can't hurt to be a shade more aloof. Any girl I have ever met on an online date has always been the confident type too..

batmanrobin

Rekop dog wrote: »

Talk about a ringing endorsement from the biggest detractor of this approach. I don't doubt for a second if you liked someone again in the future you'd react similarly to his flakiness.

Listen the OP came here with the issues of being a serial dater but never having success with those he'd like to, admitted he's been to forward with his interest in those. I've never said to be an arsehole, just to leave her wondering for a bit, and try present himself as a prize worth winning in a non boastful way. Still has to be interesting and fun to be around, but needs to stir very clear of getting a potential review afterwards such as 'you were lovely'.

No, I wouldn't tolerate flakiness and the only reaction id have is to say goodbye and good luck. When you've been on that merry go round before you're less inclined to do it again. It's exhausting!!! It really is.

If you're interested, be interested. Not puppy dog interested, but just normal. Most men don't like games same as most women. You and the OP over complicate what should be easy. Being a nice guy isn't bad and it isn't the problem. If you don't click with someone, you don't click. The OP might never find someone. He doesn't have to give up hope but he doesn't have to let it rule his life.

batmanrobin

route9 wrote: »

Well I was going to say that it sounds like you and the other posters are projecting from direct experience - hence all these recent posts?

Again it's not about being manipulative or game-playing, it's just about being a little bit restrained, aloof and cool - nothing wrong with that surely! I am sure girls do it all the time too.

I will say that I don't feel I have been overly eager with girls I've liked in the past, but that's just what I feel and might not necessarily be true. As mentioned it could also have been the case that my body language was showing I was clearly interested, and I even think of how I was on dates with girls I liked (pretty chatty, sitting up at the table) vs those I wasn't really interested in (sitting back in my chair, really casual and laid back).

Nobody is suggesting playing games or messing people around, but it can't hurt to be a shade more aloof. Any girl I have ever met on an online date has always been the confident type too..

Not projecting. Just pointing out the reality from experience. Ask any woman you know does she like when a guy plays games and I'd be surprised if any said yes. Ask any guy and I'd be surprised if they said yes. A certain type perhaps - the drama types. It's not about declaring your love, it's about being approachable and responding and just taking it easy.

witchgirl26

OP - female here agreeing with the others here in terms of game-playing. If a guy was doing that playing hard to get stuff on me, I'd lose interest fairly damn quick and be off. It's not good from either side. One thing as teenagers but in mid-30's it's time to be a grown up. I have more respect for a man who openly said he liked me than one playing any types of these games.

I have a friend who's a little younger than you but similar in some ways it sounds. He'd love to find a nice girl to settle down with. Which is great. The problem is that he tries to move relationships on too quickly and this has the opposite effect on a lot of the girls he's dated as a relationship isn't something you can rush and push into the way you want like that. He's also ended things with girls very quickly thinking they're not going anywhere only to regret it a bit later as he did like her and just didn't give it a natural amount of time to develop.

I think ease off on the dates for a while as it sounds like they're not going well for you in the sense of you're getting nothing out of them. Also maybe look at how you're judging those you've been on dates with - are your standards maybe a bit high? I'm not saying settle for something but maybe you're ruling out girls that could be perfect for you apart from one little thing that isn't on your check-list (if you have one).

beks101

Rekop dog wrote: »

Listen the OP came here with the issues of being a serial dater but never having success with those he'd like to, admitted he's been to forward with his interest in those. I've never said to be an arsehole, just to leave her wondering for a bit, and try present himself as a prize worth winning in a non boastful way. Still has to be interesting and fun to be around, but needs to stir very clear of getting a potential review afterwards such as 'you were lovely'.

The "serial dater without any success" is a very common feature of online dating though. And I think it's far more as a result of that particular medium and what it breeds in people rather than anything in particular he's doing wrong on these dates. I haven't been getting any Glenn Close vibes from anything he's described about his dates.

Listen, I did it for years, all the "lovely but" dates on both sides of the fence - both not feeling it myself and the guy not being particularly interested despite us seeming to hit it off. In the end I bored of the conveyor belt of mediocre and going-nowhere dates, logged off and met my boyfriend at work, hooked up with him at a leaving party. In other words, living my life and letting things happen organically rather than attaching a load of meaning to every internet date with a person I know nothing about other than a few one-dimensional photos and a fickle About Me sentence or two.

When you're meeting 2+ of these people a week, your vision can be clouded about it all. You're both in a sweet factory of men/women, cherry picking between profiles and thinking about your next match before you've even been on a date with that chap you've been talking to for a week. In real life, you meet someone, go with the flow without attaching any weight to it and both act and respond to each other like humans.

There was no "hard to get" with my OH. He fancied me and made that clear to me from Day One. He'd talk about "running away and building a life with me" and I thought it was hilarious and charming, rather than needy and too full on. Coz I fancied him too and that transition from "colleague" to "partner" was full of butterflies and enthusiasm, instead of insecurity and head-fcuk. I wasn't planning next week's date with someone I hadn't met yet. I was just letting things flow with someone who wasn't playing games and was a joy to be around.

If we're going to generalise about "what women want", let's go for that instead of any of these ridiculous "bad boy" stereotypes. Obviously don't be a complete sap and turn into some needy desperado when you meet someone you like. But be man enough to express your feelings and follow through, be bold enough to go for a kiss or turn up the physical flirtations if you feel like it's being reciprocated. Text when you say you'll text. Ask her out again before the night is up. Sometimes you'll be ghosted, not because you're "doing it wrong" but because that's dating in the 21st century. But the right woman who's on the same page as you emotionally and is attracted to you won't be put off by it.

route9

beks101 wrote: »

The "serial dater without any success" is a very common feature of online dating though. And I think it's far more as a result of that particular medium and what it breeds in people rather than anything in particular he's doing wrong on these dates. I haven't been getting any Glenn Close vibes from anything he's described about his dates.

Listen, I did it for years, all the "lovely but" dates on both sides of the fence - both not feeling it myself and the guy not being particularly interested despite us seeming to hit it off. In the end I bored of the conveyor belt of mediocre and going-nowhere dates, logged off and met my boyfriend at work, hooked up with him at a leaving party. In other words, living my life and letting things happen organically rather than attaching a load of meaning to every internet date with a person I know nothing about other than a few one-dimensional photos and a fickle About Me sentence or two.

When you're meeting 2+ of these people a week, your vision can be clouded about it all. You're both in a sweet factory of men/women, cherry picking between profiles and thinking about your next match before you've even been on a date with that chap you've been talking to for a week. In real life, you meet someone, go with the flow without attaching any weight to it and both act and respond to each other like humans.

There was no "hard to get" with my OH. He fancied me and made that clear to me from Day One. He'd talk about "running away and building a life with me" and I thought it was hilarious and charming, rather than needy and too full on. Coz I fancied him too and that transition from "colleague" to "partner" was full of butterflies and enthusiasm, instead of insecurity and head-fcuk. I wasn't planning next week's date with someone I hadn't met yet. I was just letting things flow with someone who wasn't playing games and was a joy to be around.

If we're going to generalise about "what women want", let's go for that instead of any of these ridiculous "bad boy" stereotypes. Obviously don't be a complete sap and turn into some needy desperado when you meet someone you like. But be man enough to express your feelings and follow through, be bold enough to go for a kiss or turn up the physical flirtations if you feel like it's being reciprocated. Text when you say you'll text. Ask her out again before the night is up. Sometimes you'll be ghosted, not because you're "doing it wrong" but because that's dating in the 21st century. But the right woman who's on the same page as you emotionally and is attracted to you won't be put off by it.

I think the key point there is the 'very common feature of online dating' - that is definitely the case and is the main reason I'm deleting all my apps this week.

However, here's the thing - it's easy for you to give the above and similar (great) advice Beks, because you've already met someone through in one of the nicest ways - through work. One of the biggest reasons I tried online dating was because that simply hasn't happened for me - neither has meeting through friends.

I totally agree that meeting organically like that is so the best way to meet anyone, and I plan to do a lot more activities with new people over the coming months. Not solely for the purposes of meeting someone, but primarily for the purposes of just meeting new people and having fun. As another poster said before, not everyone meets someone and that could be me. That's totally fine, I am still happy single and it won't really change anything.

But it is a bit of a catch-22. Everyone knows that meeting people in real life upfront is far better, but when you are well into your 30s and friends have settled down and many more people in general have become attached and settled down, then the number of single people you will meet through avenues other than online dating is much smaller than with online dating included. I've had 2 online dates with 2 different girls in the past 10 days, and I have another 2 (final 2) girls to meet from online dating, over the next week or less.

So in the space of 2 and a half weeks, I'll have met four different girls. And while we agree that for all the reasons we've discussed it almost certainly isn't worth it, how long would it take to meet and date 4 different girls in 'real life'? Perhaps 4 or 5 months at least, instead of a couple of weeks But of course, that is almost certainly better, even if those dates from real life didn't go anywhere - they are still going to be far better as I / we will know there is something already there between us beforehand.

On the 'bad boy' stuff, stereotypes are stereotypes for a reason though. 'The Irish love to drink quite a bit' - well actually yes, a lot of us really do! And even though none of the independent women on this thread will admit it, sometimes you are and will be attracted to a guy who acts like he has nothing to lose and could kinda care less. Not in a game-playing, asshole-y way (although that happens all the time too), but just in that very laid back, ah sure we'll see what happens kind of way that reinforces the fact that he has options (or makes it seem that way, even if he doesn't). But that's really a side topic.