How many days annual leave?

CiniO

I know normally it's 20 days per annum.

Now - situation in question - person only works 39 weeks (3/4) of the year consisting of 52 weeks.
Person takes no holidays during that period.
By the end of employement, person receives P45 and payment for 15 days (3 weeks) of annual leave due.

All seems right and sound.

However if person did take this 3 weeks of annual leave during employment, but still worked 39 weeks (so together with annual leave taken it would be 42 week), does that mean that person would be due more annual leave (i.e 42 weeks out of 52 per annum should give 16.15 days).
This gives extra 1.15 days annual leave due.

Which way of calculating is corrrect?
Or in other words, can annual leave be based on work time already including annual leave? (becasue that seems to be the case if someone works all years round)

If both ways of calculating are correct, can person who worked 39 weeks and took no annual leave, demand on employer to take them weeks due at the end of employement and by that extend amount of annual leave due being longer in employemt (instead of being P45ed right after finishing work and being paid all annual leave in one go with last payslip) ?

uck51js9zml2yt

1.66 days per month is the ususal = 20 days per annum

Stheno

CiniO wrote: »

I know normally it's 20 days per annum.

Now - situation in question - person only works 39 weeks (3/4) of the year consisting of 52 weeks.
Person takes no holidays during that period.
By the end of employement, person receives P45 and payment for 15 days (3 weeks) of annual leave due.

All seems right and sound.

However if person did take this 3 weeks of annual leave during employment, but still worked 39 weeks (so together with annual leave taken it would be 42 week), does that mean that person would be due more annual leave (i.e 42 weeks out of 52 per annum should give 16.15 days).
This gives extra 1.15 days annual leave due.

Which was of calculating is corrrect?
Or in other words, can annual leave be based on work time already including annual leave? (becasue that seems to be the case if someone works all years round)

If both was of calculating are correct, can person who worked 39 weeks and took no annual leave, demand on employer to take them weeks due at the end of employement and by that extend amount of annual leave due being longer in employemt (instead of being P45ed right after finishing work and being paid all annual leave in one go with last payslip) ?

The first way is correct, if leave of three weeks was taken then they would be due 1.15 days when they left.

And employers choose whether to pay the annual leave or grant additional leave as part of notice when someone decides to leave.

clintondaly

Based on the employee's working hours during what is called the leave year, which runs from April to March.Depending on time worked, employees’ holiday entitlements should be calculated by one of the following methods:
a) 4 working weeks in a leave year in which the employee works at least 1,365 hours (unless it is a leave year in which he or she changes employment).
b) 1/3 of a working week per calendar month that the employee works at least 117 hours.
c) 8% of the hours an employee works in a leave year (but subject to a maximum of 4 working weeks).

If more than one of the preceding methods at (a), (b) or (c) above is applicable, the employee shall be entitled to whichever method provides the greater holiday entitlement. However the maximum statutory annual leave entitlement of an employee in a leave year is four of his/her normal working weeks.
An employee may use whichever of these methods gives the greater entitlement. When calculating the entitlement, employers should include all hours worked including time spent on annual leave, maternity leave, parental leave, force majeure leave, adoptive leave or the first 13 weeks of carer’s leave.

Employees do not accrue annual leave while on sick leave, occupational injury, temporary lay-off, or career break.

An employee who has worked for at least 8 months is entitled to an unbroken period of 2 weeks' annual leave.

Link to more info

http://www.unionconnect.ie/rights/4/

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/annual_leave_public_holidays.html

CiniO

Josephine Wrong Hardware wrote: »

1.66 days per month is the ususal = 20 days per annum

Yes.
Becasue 1.66 * 12 months is nearly 20 days...

But person works only just over 11 months, as 20 days annual leave is 4 weeks so nearly whole months. That means person is getting 1.66 annual leave days for the month in which person is on annual leave.

And in my example, person works only 9 month, without taking annual leave, and receives 15 days of annual leave payment (9*1.66) at the end of employment, but those 15 days (or 3 weeks) are not added to time on which annual leave is based like in example above.

So is that correct?

Stheno

CiniO wrote: »

Yes.
Becasue 1.66 * 12 months is nearly 20 days...

But person works only just over 11 months, as 20 days annual leave is 4 weeks so nearly whole months. That means person is getting 1.66 annual leave days for the month in which person is on annual leave.

And in my example, person works only 9 month, without taking annual leave, and receives 15 days of annual leave payment (9*1.66) at the end of employment, but those 15 days (or 3 weeks) are not added to time on which annual leave is based like in example above.

So is that correct?

That sounds fine to me, they would be entitled to 15 days and getting paid that is at the discretion of the employer rather than their taking the time off.

Both ways are correct in different circumstances but no the employer can't be forced to continue the employment to take holidays.

Ending the employment and paying outstanding holidays with the p45 is reasonable.

CiniO

Deleted User wrote: »

Both ways are correct in different circumstances but no the employer can't be forced to continue the employment to take holidays.

Ending the employment and paying outstanding holidays with the p45 is reasonable.

So in other words, it much better for employee, to avail of annual leave during the employment, instead of having it paid at the end, as in latter case you're getting less annual leave.

Stheno

CiniO wrote: »

So in other words, it much better for employee, to avail of annual leave during the employment, instead of having it paid at the end, as in latter case you're getting less annual leave.

Yes very much so, as you can also get walloped on tax in this case the person is getting paid 175% what they normally would so might end up paying 40% income tax on the extra fifteen days pay

CiniO

CiniO wrote: »

So in other words, it much better for employee, to avail of annual leave during the employment, instead of having it paid at the end, as in latter case you're getting less annual leave.

It depends on your circumstances - If you are going straight into another job then yes it would be better to take holidays while working.

If you are not going straight into another job you are getting a break but not of your choosing.

uck51js9zml2yt

A person still accrues AL while on holidays if they are working.
If they have ceased employment, they only get what is owing for period worked.

Fendy

clintondaly wrote: »

Employees do not accrue annual leave while on sick leave

This rule has been changed since 1 August 2015 http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/employment/employment_rights_and_conditions/leave_and_holidays/sick_leave.html

Since 1 August 2015, you accumulate statutory annual leave entitlement during a period of certified sick leave. Employees on long-term sick leave can retain annual leave they could not take due to illness for up to 15 months after the end of the year in which it is accrued.

Mrs OBumble

Josephine Wrong Hardware wrote: »

A person still accrues AL while on holidays if they are working.

And that is why there is a difference in the two ways of calculation.

It is why copped-on employers insist on your finishing up and being paid out when you finish up, rather than being annual days for any time after you've finished working.



Someone up above said that the leave year run from April to March: I don't think that is correct. Employers can determine their own leave year (and most usually match it to their financial year).

As to whether it is much better for employee to avail of annual leave during the employment, instead of having it paid at the end - that depends on what you value:

• if you take the leave during the year but the job only lasts for 39 weeks, then you will have 36 weeks of work and 3 weeks of leave = 39 paid weeks.
• But if you don't take the leave during the year you have 39 weeks of work, and 3 weeks of paid out leave-equivalent = 42 paid weeks.

You also need to consider the effects on the employer if you disappear on leave for 3 weeks while they're open: even if they allow this, they may not be amused about it, and may consider hiring someone else who's willing to work the full 39 weeks next time around.

Re the possibility of being over-taxed, that depends on whether you work as a PAYE employee again in the same financial year as as you are paid out for the leave: If you do, then any overpayment will be fixed up in your next pay. (For example, a school-secretary may be paid out pay + annual leave owing in June and so taxed a lot on it. But when they start work again in September, they get most of the extra tax back in their first pay.

The other factor affecting tax is what the person does in the other 13 weeks. If they're collecting Job Seekers Benefit, then this is taxable income but paid out to you untaxed. So the over-tax on the holiday pay can help even this out.