National Hurling League 2017

letowski

Very very early to start this thread, but what do people make of this:

http://www.the42.ie/free-taking-comptetions-3094085-Nov2016/

So basically at the knock-out stage, if a game is not decided after extra time, it goes to a free taking competition. Personally, I don't think this is the best way to determine a winner, if the GAA really want the game decided on the day.

Would it not be better have a next score wins or something?

Xenophile

Free taking from 80 metres, if even after 3 frees, sudden death.

Same player allowed to take all the frees or anyone else on the team !

CrabRevolution

Next score wins is an even worse way of deciding a match, there's a reason it was a failure when they tried it in soccer.

I think the shootout is a pretty good idea to be honest, some outside of the box thinking.

Clareman

Ball is placed on the 45, attacker is on the 65 and the goalie is on the goal line, the attacker has 7 seconds to play the ball, highest score after 5 plays wins

PTH2009

About 40% chance of one of knockout games still level after ET but last years final ended level after ET

Think Kilkenny will win it next year as they have a point to prove and winning a NHL for the first time since 2014 is a good start. 1A will be very tight again next year, on paper Cork and Dublin look set too be fighting relagation but anything can happen, Waterford, Tipp and Clare in the division too

1B features Galway, Limerick, Wexford, Offaly, Laois and Kerry. Laois may struggle but can trouble teams and almost shocked Wexford last year, Kerry who had a terrific 2016 league campaign will also be troublesome for teams. 2017 will be Davys first year with Wexford and he could give then the edge too win promotion but Limerick and Galway might have something to say about that I think Wexford will win promotion

letowski

CrabRevolution wrote: »

Next score wins is an even worse way of deciding a match, there's a reason it was a failure when they tried it in soccer.

I think the shootout is a pretty good idea to be honest, some outside of the box thinking.

I don't know, if the decision of deciding which team has a better 3rd choice free-taker is the right way.

But anyway it's is only the league.

dastardly00

Obvious question, but why not a penalty competition like soccer?

Clareman

dastardly00 wrote: »

Obvious question, but why not a penalty competition like soccer?

Cause it's copying soccer

Rugby has a penalty kicks tie breaker as well

mountgomery burns

Penalties would be much better. Didn't it say the same fella can take all three frees?

Bonniedog

Would surely make more sense, if they are concerned about too many games, to do away with quarter finals and just have play offs between top two in !A and 1B?

Also that whoever finishes top of a division gets promoted and last gets relegated. Which is original meaning of a league anyway!

Of course that would run the risk of destroying some "traditionalist" belief that if you finish fourth in 1B you should have some inherited right to be playing Kilkenny or Tipp.

adrian522

They could try having the ref playing the correct amount of time at the end of normal time/ET rather than this craic of always allowing a little bit extra to see if the team behind can level it up.

Would an extra 5 mins ET be a runner or is it just too much after 90 mins hurling?

blue note

Bonniedog wrote: »

Would surely make more sense, if they are concerned about too many games, to do away with quarter finals and just have play offs between top two in !A and 1B?

Also that whoever finishes top of a division gets promoted and last gets relegated. Which is original meaning of a league anyway!

Of course that would run the risk of destroying some "traditionalist" belief that if you finish fourth in 1B you should have some inherited right to be playing Kilkenny or Tipp.

The league is actually working very well at the moment, so I'd like to see them stick with it while it is! At the moment all the games in 1A are important, because such is the quality that anyone can be relegated. A problem with 1B originally was that teams were only getting one meaningful game a year in it (when Wexford were very poor), so for example Clare and Limerick would have one proper game in the league before championship starts. Now, Wexford are pretty decent and are a reasonable challenge for Galway and Limerick next year. They'll have the match against each other too and the quarter final.

The league now is full of meaningful games which is what you want. Take out quarter finals and you'll lose a lot of that.

CrabRevolution

adrian522 wrote: »

They could try having the ref playing the correct amount of time at the end of normal time/ET rather than this craic of always allowing a little bit extra to see if the team behind can level it up.

Would an extra 5 mins ET be a runner or is it just too much after 90 mins hurling?

According to this, the shootout would only be after Extra, Extra Time, so 100 minutes of hurling.

http://hoganstand.com/ArticleForm.aspx?ID=263496

I remember a year or 2 ago, Down and Derry drew after extra time in the Ulster SHC, so agreed to play an additional 10 minutes. They drew after those 10 minutes too so it went to a replay. On the GAA website the final score reported was the score after the regulation 70 minutes+20 minutes ET, which makes sense considering there's nothing in the rules allowing for teams to decide the length of the game amongst themselves so the GAA can't recognise scores gotten in unsanctioned time.

But it made me wonder what would happen had a team "won" in those last 10 unofficial minutes. Would the GAA have demanded a replay anyway? Or would they have let it slide since it wasn't a particularly prestigious or high stakes game?

Bonniedog

blue note wrote: »

The league is actually working very well at the moment, so I'd like to see them stick with it while it is! At the moment all the games in 1A are important, because such is the quality that anyone can be relegated. A problem with 1B originally was that teams were only getting one meaningful game a year in it (when Wexford were very poor), so for example Clare and Limerick would have one proper game in the league before championship starts. Now, Wexford are pretty decent and are a reasonable challenge for Galway and Limerick next year. They'll have the match against each other too and the quarter final.

The league now is full of meaningful games which is what you want. Take out quarter finals and you'll lose a lot of that.

I agree that is best structure, but my point is that if the object is to reduce amount of games - which it is - then there are fairer systems than shoot outs.


A top four semi finals still be exciting.


And teams that lose all their games and get to play relegation play off is just a joke.

CrabRevolution

Bonniedog wrote: »

I agree that is best structure, but my point is that if the object is to reduce amount of games - which it is - then there are fairer systems than shoot outs.


A top four semi finals still be exciting.


And teams that lose all their games and get to play relegation play off is just a joke.

What system is more fair than a shootout?

Next score wins certainly isn't, it's no better than blind luck to see who gets the first score. Quite regularly a much poorer team gets the first score in a game before being steamrollered. On top of that one team getting the wind for next score wins would be a huge advantage.

Playing more and more extra time is just punishing on the players.

Bonniedog

If they reduce number of games, by getting rid of nonsensical top four v top four and the relegation/promotion playoffs, then they won't need shoot outs or penalties because there will be time for replays!

danganabu

Have no idea what the problem is to be honest, the league structure as is now has proved an unqualified success with little or no meaningless games and the idea of reducing the number of replays in order that the championship is not hindered is again perfectly logical and shows forward thinking. It always amuses me that GAA supporters can never actually just fully agree with change, the first reaction is always ''but but what if...''

Clareman

They are just having a knee jerk reaction to Clare and Waterford having to play 3 times in a month and the league being forgotten because of the championship.

They won't get rid of the quarter finals because that hits the criteria of "weaker teams playing the top teams", they also have a terrible calendar that just gets into trouble in the event of a draw near the end of the competitions. Personally, I don't think division 2 teams should be allow win the league, they should just have divisions of 7 teams so everyone gets 6 games (3 home and 3 away), top 2 play off for that divisions title, the bottom 2 are relegated and there's a play off between the third last and top teams. I'd also look to having a "League Finals Weekend" where the finals/relegations are played off over the weekend, for example Ennis and Limerick could host games, Croke Park and Parnell Park, Nolan Park and Thurles, ideally do it over the Easter weekend to make a 3 day weekend out of it.

Bonniedog

The quarter finals are just to assuage the bruised egos of former elite counties who find themselves in 1B, which is actually Division II but to call it that would offend some people!

I think the structure has worked reasonably well. However, if their object is to reduce number of games by having shoot outs, then getting rid of the quarter finals and relegation/promotion play offs be more logical step.

mountgomery burns

Bonniedog wrote: »

The quarter finals are just to assuage the bruised egos of former elite counties who find themselves in 1B, which is actually Division II but to call it that would offend some people!

I think the structure has worked reasonably well. However, if their object is to reduce number of games by having shoot outs, then getting rid of the quarter finals and relegation/promotion play offs be more logical step.

And yet for two years running, the champions have come from 1B...

Bonniedog

Both Clare and Waterford won 1B so that is nothing to do with quarter finals!

Anyway, as said, best to leave things as they are. It is best structure for a long time and makes being in 1A or 1B more or less irrelevant for the top 8/9 teams in country.


Still a bit of glass ceiling for those below that although Kerry have so far overcome those barriers. However, as experience of Antrim and Westmeath shows, once you slip down the pecking order it is very hard to climb back up.