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Comments

  • #2
    Peregrinus
    Registered Users Posts: 26,017 ✭✭✭✭Peregrinus


    I don't think he is right, no.

    He's the Minister. He has staff (that you and I pay for) to assist him in discharging the very many functions of his office, one of which is making these appointments. If he doesn't wish to personally consider and interview every candidate referred to him - and I can see why he wouldn't - then he needs to devise a process which will enable him to make the appointments in other ways. This could involve his deciding - after advice from his staff, if he wishes - on criteria for prioritising the applicants, followed by his staff reviewing and if desired interviewing the applicants and assessing them against the criteria, followed by the development of a shortlist of highly qualified applicants, at which point he could get personally involved in the process.

    Or, if he wants, he could delegate even more of it. He could, for example have his staff conduct interviews, etc, and then send him a list of the top three candidates, identifying which one they favour and saying. He could either confirm their decision and appoint the recommended candidate, or if he disagrees with them appoint one of the others, or send the shortlist back to them and tell them why he is unhappy with it.

    It comes down to this; it's his job to see that these appointments get made, and get made lawfully and fairly and by reference to valid and relevant criteria. He needs to put in place a system for making the appointments; his own personal role in that system is a matter for him.


  • #3
    Cookie_Monster
    Registered Users Posts: 24,468 ✭✭✭✭Cookie_Monster


    Why PAS giving him 34 name for two roles, that is a stupidly high number and should be cut far further than that. Despite this it really is a pathetic winge from Ross, why hasn't he pushed back and gotten numbers for review whittled down before being presented to him, or just gone and made some calls and got it started.

    He is very quickly turning out to be a completely incompetent minister


  • #4
    mariaalice
    Registered Users Posts: 12,356 ✭✭✭✭mariaalice


    He pontificated from the sideline about government appointments before going in to politics. It is a classic case of: Now he is a position to do something about it he realised it is a lot more complex that a simple answers, so he is like a rabbit caught in the headlight he knows every appoint will be scrutinised by the media because of his past pronouncements.


  • #5
    Jawgap
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,297 ✭✭✭✭Jawgap


    mariaalice wrote: »
    He pontificated from the sideline about government appointments before going in to politics. It is a classic case of: Now he is a position to do something about it he realised it is a lot more complex that a simple answers, so he is like a rabbit caught in the headlight he knows every appoint will be scrutinised by the media because of his past pronouncements.

    It's not really that complex - he has a minion ring the PAS and tell them what the posts they need filling are, provide them with a role profile and ask them to furnish a shortlist of 3 for each post to the Minister within X weeks.

    He gets the list, he makes the decision - Next!


  • #6
    Mr.Micro
    Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Looks like the man with discretion has too much discretion. The jobs for the boys on the various Boards have to be filled with the cronies. Mr. Ross will soon learn how difficult it is to be independent in such a system.


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  • #7
    Bob Z
    Registered Users Posts: 2,587 ✭✭✭Bob Z


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Looks like the man with discretion has too much discretion. The jobs for the boys on the various Boards have to be filled with the cronies. Mr. Ross will soon learn how difficult it is to be independent in such a system.

    yes isnt he just trying to be honest?


  • #8
    Godge
    Closed Accounts Posts: 21,727 ✭✭✭✭Godge


    Bob Z wrote: »
    yes isnt he just trying to be honest?

    He hasn't a clue.

    He is paralyzed by the thought that if he makes a decision some Shane Ross the 2nd out there will criticise him for it. That's what happens when you get serial protestors into power - they can't make a decision to save their life.


  • #9
    Phoebas
    Registered Users Posts: 9,370 ✭✭✭Phoebas


    Bob Z wrote: »
    ross is getting a bit of flack for this but unless im missing something surely he is right?

    http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/ross-refuses-to-fill-36-jobs-as-he-has-too-much-discretion-35231592.html


    Maybe he should just imagine that he is the old Shane Ross, sitting down to write his Sunday column. That Shane Ross would know what to do.

    If he can't make a decision, then he should get off the field and let someone else have a go. I propose Gene Kerrigan; that chap seems to have a lot of answers.


  • #10
    emmet02
    Registered Users Posts: 24,815 ✭✭✭✭emmet02


    I'm surprised he hasn't proposed an independent board be set up to appoint candidates to these positions.

    And an independent board be set up to set up that independent board.

    And an ......


  • #11
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,266 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    emmet02 wrote: »
    And an independent board be set up to set up that independent board.

    And an ......

    As far as I recall, something like that was proposed in coalition negotiations, an independent board to appoint an independent board.


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  • #12
    marno21
    Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 14,341 Mod ✭✭✭✭marno21


    Picking fights today in the Dail with Alan Kelly.

    https://www.kildarestreet.com/debates/?id=2016-11-29a.419

    With a bit of luck his days are getting shorter and shorter in this role. Disgracefully bad Minister.


  • #13
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,751 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    Cookie_Monster wrote: »
    Why PAS giving him 34 name for two roles, that is a stupidly high number and should be cut far further than that. Despite this it really is a pathetic winge from Ross, why hasn't he pushed back and gotten numbers for review whittled down before being presented to him, or just gone and made some calls and got it started.

    He is very quickly turning out to be a completely incompetent minister

    the PAS do as little as possible they just look at CVs, they get many people submitting for any board, they don't give him a reason to pick anyone in particular, just like with judges Ross is trying to get changes to the system started before he proceeds, its in the programme for government, the problem with state board appointments is far from over, he wanted it out of the hands of ministers as do I.

    we saw how rotten it was with Kenny/Humphries/McNulty some cosmetic changes were made but the power is till entirely in the hands of the ministers.

    suddenly lots of fans of the system here?


  • #14
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    expectationlost wrote: »
    ...the problem with state board appointments is far from over, he wanted it out of the hands of ministers as do I.

    we saw how rotten it was with Kenny/Humphries/McNulty some cosmetic changes were made but the power is till entirely in the hands of the ministers.

    Where should the power reside?


  • #15
    screamer
    Registered Users Posts: 6,130 ✭✭✭screamer


    He's lucky he's in a public job as he'd not be kept p*****g time in a large private company. If he can't even figure out how to fill vacancies how the hell will be do anything substantive with that ministry?
    Talk is cheap, actual work is hard.


  • #16
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    He's a clown.
    Full of fire and brimstone from the sidelines but in power he's as useless as any of the ones he condemned.

    Hello PAS, you sent me a list of 34 applicants, I'd like that cut to 5 please based on the following criteria......, can you have that for me by say next week please? Thank you.
    Job done you fúcking under worked, overpaid whinge bag.


  • #17
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    screamer wrote: »
    He's lucky he's in a public job as he'd not be kept p*****g time in a large private company. If he can't even figure out how to fill vacancies how the hell will be do anything substantive with that ministry?
    Talk is cheap, actual work is hard.

    Exactly - "sorry boss, there's too much work there so I'm going to just ignore it, that's ok I take it? I suppose I could use the vast resources placed at my disposal to whittle it down a bit, but I'm not going to bother. I'm popping out for lunch, would you like anything?"

    Anybody who has spent anytime in the real world knows exactly what you'd be told!


  • #18
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,751 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    I suppose I could use the vast resources placed at my disposal to whittle it down a bit

    thats the PAS' jobs


  • #19
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,751 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Where should the power reside?

    im not sure

    at the very least a minister that could be fired if she abused the power, although that would have put the Taoiseach position in question to which is why it didn't happen.


    this is what the delay is about
    The Government will now strengthen this system by putting it on a statutory footing by the end of 2016.
    http://www.merrionstreet.ie/merrionstreet/en/imagelibrary/programme_for_partnership_government.pdf but sure if you yous all want to just buy into the fun his old media colleagues are having go ahead


  • #20
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    expectationlost wrote: »
    im not sure
    I'm getting the distinct impression that he's not either.
    this is what the delay is about
    The Government will now strengthen this system by putting it on a statutory footing by the end of 2016.
    http://www.merrionstreet.ie/merrionstreet/en/imagelibrary/programme_for_partnership_government.pdf

    He's stalling because the the process he's using isn't on a statutory footing? Why? If it's the right process, it's the right process. If it's the wrong process, what's the right one, and is that the one that should go on a statutory footing?


  • #21
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,751 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I'm getting the distinct impression that he's not either.

    He's stalling because the the process he's using isn't on a statutory footing? Why? If it's the right process, it's the right process. If it's the wrong process, what's the right one, and is that the one that should go on a statutory footing?
    he's in discussions with the Minister of Public Reform to have it changed as much as possible, I'd like to know more details too but Im unlikely to get them

    in Clare Byrne interview he says he wants to 'limit the discretion' of the ministers.

    http://www.rte.ie/player/ie/show/claire-byrne-live-30003252/10655793/


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  • #22
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,789 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    expectationlost wrote: »
    in Clare Daly interview he says he wants to 'limit the discretion' of the ministers.

    OK, but if the relevant minister doesn't decide who to appoint, who does, and to whom are they accountable?


  • #23
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,751 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    OK, but if the relevant minister doesn't decide who to appoint, who does, and to whom are they accountable?

    well the people who currently do it are not accountable, that is the problem.

    but Shane Ross isn't suggesting, at the moment, that they don't ultimately decide, I clarified that after watching the RTE interview.


  • #24
    sbsquarepants
    Registered Users Posts: 11,812 ✭✭✭✭sbsquarepants


    expectationlost wrote: »
    thats the PAS' jobs

    That'd be those vast resources I was talking about!


  • #25
    expectationlost
    Registered Users Posts: 11,751 ✭✭✭✭expectationlost


    sbsquarepants wrote: »
    That'd be those vast resources I was talking about!
    tbf I don't think they have vast resources


  • #26
    daheff
    Registered Users Posts: 5,833 ✭✭✭daheff


    I think this clown should have sport taken away from him.

    Another car crash interview this morning where he clearly demonstrates he has no clue about sport newstalk interview


  • #27
    Gravelly
    Registered Users Posts: 4,119 ✭✭✭Gravelly


    Jesus, he's useless. Either get someone with time and expertise to whittle them down for him, or if he hasn't the balls or brains for that, roll a bloody dice.

    Does he need someone to pick out his underpants in the morning before he gets dressed in case he has too much discretion in that too?


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