Bangernomics to new car on PCP? Nuts?

hometruths

Just done a really long post with all the facts and figures, as well as rationale, but lost it cos I got logged out in time in took to write! Argh. The short version:

Current car - 02 V70, bought 2.5 years ago for 2k, 900 per annum insurance, 710 tax, 300 maintenance, cracking car, worthless now, looking to change.

Option 1 - newer model V70, budget 3k, hope for similiar running costs, run for 3 years, assume car worthless at end - 3 year cost: €8580

Option 2 - find dealer with guaranteed 4k scrappage deal and 0% APR, look at new cars around 22k eg Skoda Octavia, Seat Leon, PCP purchase financing 18k - , GMFV - €8700 - 36 monthly payments of €267 = 3 year cost €12018

Servicing included in Skoda PCP, tax 190 per annum, insurance 600 per annum.

For the new car the extra cost is €3438 or €1146 per annum.

If I understand PCP correctly worst case scenario is I hand the car back at 3 years with no payment, assuming I have complied with servicing and mileage.

In that case the €1146 per annum looks tempting in terms of increased reliability and peace of mind (we've just had a baby so these things suddenly more important).

I understand that the 4k scrappage might have lots of small print that excludes 14 year old Volvos but assuming i can find a dealer offering it do the numbers stack up?

Bangernomics has worked well for me and up until now always swore would never buy a new car, so am not overly familiar with scrappage and PCP, and feel like I am missing something.

What do the more experienced boardsies think?

Aaronh86

I done pcp last year with a brand new 151 octavia with a few extras cracking car can't fault it! I got it with 0% finance and servicing traded a mondeo so that was deposit low monthly repayments and the balloon payment is €9500! I will be keeping this car unless I can get a really good deal next year so the balloon payment won't bother me!

The seat Leon st estate is a great looking car!!!

hometruths

Aaronh86 wrote: »

I done pcp last year with a brand new 151 octavia with a few extras cracking car can't fault it! I got it with 0% finance and servicing traded a mondeo so that was deposit low monthly repayments and the balloon payment is €9500! I will be keeping this car unless I can get a really good deal next year so the balloon payment won't bother me!

The seat Leon st estate is a great looking car!!!

What were details of Mondeo, age etc? And how much did they allow for it?

MojoMaker

Don't forget it's "UP TO 4K scrappage", you'd be getting about 700-800 for yours.

Skoda 0% is tough to beat right now, they have some excellent cars.

Tigerandahalf

If you just have a new baby is there the possibility of another (or more) following shortly?

You might need to consider MPVs with all the extras that babies bring. Buy a brand new reliable MPV and drive it into the ground for the next 10 years. Servicing might be covered plus warranty so no extra bills.

And you don't want the hassle of a banger breaking down on a lashing winter's night with a screaming baby in the back.

hometruths

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

If you just have a new baby is there the possibility of another (or more) following shortly?

You might need to consider MPVs with all the extras that babies bring. Buy a brand new reliable MPV and drive it into the ground for the next 10 years. Servicing might be covered plus warranty so no extra bills.

And you don't want the hassle of a banger breaking down on a lashing winter's night with a screaming baby in the back.

For sure, but no more than one in the next three years.

And the baby(ies) are definitely the reason considering a new car!

Jacovs

More or less the same boat.
My 03 car decided it's not for the world much longer, check engine light is permanent on.
Nissan doing a 4k scrappage deal on 171 cars if you sign up before end of this year.
Their deal has PCP of 6,9% though, but no deposit.
But considering my car is now worth 0, they're giving me 4k for it, even if it decides to blow up between now and January, long as I get it towed to them they're happy. They will even give me a lend of a car till i get my new one.
Went for the Note myself, marketed as a mini mpv cos we have 2 kids.
Their website doesn't say, but there's a 4 year PCP option.
4 years PCP, 4K scrappage, works out as 250 per month with 5k mgfv after 4 years. Including 3 years servicing and 5 years warranty.

hometruths

Jacovs wrote: »

More or less the same boat.
My 03 car decided it's not for the world much longer, check engine light is permanent on.
Nissan doing a 4k scrappage deal on 171 cars if you sign up before end of this year.
Their deal has PCP of 6,9% though, but no deposit.
But considering my car is now worth 0, they're giving me 4k for it, even if it decides to blow up between now and January, long as I get it towed to them they're happy. They will even give me a lend of a car till i get my new one.
Went for the Note myself, marketed as a mini mpv cos we have 2 kids.
Their website doesn't say, but there's a 4 year PCP option.
4 years PCP, 4K scrappage, works out as 250 per month with 5k mgfv after 4 years. Including 3 years servicing and 5 years warranty.

I've looked at Nissan precisely because of the 4k guarantee, and may end up there. i.e I am not overly fussy of the brand of car if the sums make sense. Did you do calculations of 6.9% vs 0% and the 4k?

hometruths

the wording is vague on Seat website but it looks like they might be offering 0% and 4k scrappage on Leon.

Red Kev

The only way to find out the true estimated cost is to take the Volvo to a couple of Skoda/Seat dealers and see what they say...see what the trade in is and what it will cost you over the 3 years; will it still be €1146 per annum or more.

I think you've done a fair bit of work on the figures, they seem accurate to me and you've got the assurance of no major issues happening with the new car that might happen with the older one. Consider that you will be probably driving a far more economical car with the new one, so factor this in as well.

Also consider any mileage you may be doing, will it be under the limit agreed in the leasing contract and if you go over can you afford any charges or penalties.

On a more practical level you may also consider an estate; once you have a buggy and all the paraphenalia that you need for the baby the boot fills up pretty quick.

If you can comfortably afford the extra €100 per month that the leasing involves I'd personally go for the new leased car option as it's one less thing in life to worry about over the next 3 years.

You can always go back to Bangernomics at a later date.

Jacovs

schmittel wrote: »

I've looked at Nissan precisely because of the 4k guarantee, and may end up there. i.e I am not overly fussy of the brand of car if the sums make sense. Did you do calculations of 6.9% vs 0% and the 4k?

I'm not aware of anyone doing 4k scrappage +0%.
Skoda was mentioned there, but they do UP TO 4k scrappage OR 0% PCP.
I checked Toyota too, they do 3,5k scrappage, but still need a deposit too. Monthly payments are lower, but bigger gmfv at the end. So you need cash at the start and more cash at the end if like me you intend to keep the car.
At the moment Nissan just suits me with their offer since my car is effectively worth 0. And I don't have to give a cash deposit if I don't want to right now. Plan is to either save the 5k and buy car at end of 4 years, or refinance the 5k.

Sam Kade

0% finance usually would have the interest added in somewhere along the line. It's a selling tactic.

hometruths

Red Kev wrote: »

Consider that you will be probably driving a far more economical car with the new one, so factor this in as well.

Good point, I'd sort of thought of this briefly as a bonus, but just done some quick calculations and the savings are significant.

Aaronh86

schmittel wrote: »

What were details of Mondeo, age etc? And how much did they allow for it?

It was a 2007 tdci so it was 5000 deposit toward the octavia

Tigerandahalf

Do consider that cheaper tax rates for newer cars won't last. People with older cars are propping up the car tax system and with more and more newer lower tax cars on the road it is only a matter of time that the goverment will push up the tax.

There is also a lot of other threads on PCPs and what effect cheap (with the lower £) cars from Britain will have when you go to trade in for a new PCP scheme. You can be sure that the dealership won't lose out. They may price the loss into the purchase of the newer car.

Also what effect could interest rate rises have?

A lot of people won't know the finer details of these schemes.

But on the other hand a brand new car will take away a lot of worries when you have a kid to occupy you.

nice_guy80

I'm hoping they just merge the car tax in with the price of fuel at some stage in the future

But that would be too simple and work too well.

Tigerandahalf

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I'm hoping they just merge the car tax in with the price of fuel at some stage in the future

But that would be too simple and work too well.

Not sure if it will work. A huge amount of cars do under 10,000 miles a year.

They would end up crucifying the commuter.

hometruths

Tigerandahalf wrote: »

Do consider that cheaper tax rates for newer cars won't last. People with older cars are propping up the car tax system and with more and more newer lower tax cars on the road it is only a matter of time that the goverment will push up the tax.

There is also a lot of other threads on PCPs and what effect cheap (with the lower £) cars from Britain will have when you go to trade in for a new PCP scheme. You can be sure that the dealership won't lose out. They may price the loss into the purchase of the newer car.

Also what effect could interest rate rises have?

A lot of people won't know the finer details of these schemes.

But on the other hand a brand new car will take away a lot of worries when you have a kid to occupy you.

Thanks, good points which had not considered.

Would expect if the low tax bands increase the high ones will too!

Had not thought about the STG at all, but I guess if I am basing the calculations on worst case scenario - ie handing the car back, as long as dealer honours GMFV and I have complied with maintenance and mileage, the influence of UK prices irrelevant.

Re interest rates would not even consider it if I cannot fix the rate for three years.

juanry

Beware PCP ,tolerances re mileage and servicing are maneagble but worst case scenario a tip then it becomes poker like with only one winner.

photosmart

Hi there

I think you are on to something - I am currently driving an 03 golf tdi with 226,000 miles on it. Its probably worth about 700 - 800 but I have been doing the sums on this car vs a brand new skoda octavia 1.6tdi

Savings on new car of
tax 500
insurance 100
fuel 150 (based on my mileage of around 20000 miles per annum)

Service
I service the golf myself for about €50 for fuel oil and air filters so
old car probable cheaper by about €100

This leaves the key issues of

1. Depreciation

My brothers and father all have Skodas so I have a good idea of their real depreciation and it is around 9k over three years (one of the lowest around)
or 3k per annum

2. Repair

My golf has averaged repairs/parts replacement over the last two years of
around 500 per annum. This is mostly for consumables like brake pads and disks etc. Had to do radiator and exhaust recently etc....

3. Cost of finance

The skoda 0% offer is in effect about a €2500 discount. this compares with the scrappage schemes on offer which generally pay about €4000 for a car which would probably be worth about 1k - 2k


to sum up

I think the real cost of the new skoda vs the old golf car is about 150 extra per month. Its not that much when you consider the peace of mind and additional comfort and safety that comes with new car however these calculations can be very different for different models or brands so you need to do the figures up for each car you are assessing.

I am keeping the golf as it has been super reliable until 240k as i will then have to get timing belt done again and also there is always the chance of a clutch or turbo blowing - if that happens then its bye bye golf

Final point - if you are starting a family and considering keeping whichever car you buy on PCP in three years you should consider future proofing by getting an estate or an mpv or at least a car that can fit three child seats across the back(just in case). I know that the skoda octavia/superb are two of the only cars with enough space across the back for three kids albeit at a squeez but at least if you go for one of these cars it gives you the option of keeping it.

My tuppence

hometruths

photosmart wrote: »

Hi there

I think you are on to something - I am currently driving an 03 golf tdi with 226,000 miles on it. Its probably worth about 700 - 800 but I have been doing the sums on this car vs a brand new skoda octavia 1.6tdi

Savings on new car of
tax 500
insurance 100
fuel 150 (based on my mileage of around 20000 miles per annum)

Service
I service the golf myself for about €50 for fuel oil and air filters so
old car probable cheaper by about €100

This leaves the key issues of

1. Depreciation

My brothers and father all have Skodas so I have a good idea of their real depreciation and it is around 9k over three years (one of the lowest around)
or 3k per annum

2. Repair

My golf has averaged repairs/parts replacement over the last two years of
around 500 per annum. This is mostly for consumables like brake pads and disks etc. Had to do radiator and exhaust recently etc....

3. Cost of finance

The skoda 0% offer is in effect about a €2500 discount. this compares with the scrappage schemes on offer which generally pay about €4000 for a car which would probably be worth about 1k - 2k


to sum up

I think the real cost of the new skoda vs the old golf car is about 150 extra per month. Its not that much when you consider the peace of mind and additional comfort and safety that comes with new car however these calculations can be very different for different models or brands so you need to do the figures up for each car you are assessing.

I am keeping the golf as it has been super reliable until 240k as i will then have to get timing belt done again and also there is always the chance of a clutch or turbo blowing - if that happens then its bye bye golf

Final point - if you are starting a family and considering keeping whichever car you buy on PCP in three years you should consider future proofing by getting an estate or an mpv or at least a car that can fit three child seats across the back(just in case). I know that the skoda octavia/superb are two of the only cars with enough space across the back for three kids albeit at a squeez but at least if you go for one of these cars it gives you the option of keeping it.

My tuppence

Yep, the additional cost for me is less as I currently drive a 2.0 petrol!

I found a deal that offers €4000 scrappage + 0% finance. The sums on that make a lot of sense. Instinctively though I hate paying for depreciation!

ray o

schmittel wrote: »

Yep, the additional cost for me is less as I currently drive a 2.0 petrol!

I found a deal that offers €4000 scrappage + 0% finance. The sums on that make a lot of sense. Instinctively though I hate paying for depreciation!

Seat Leon?

hometruths

ray o wrote: »

Seat Leon?

yep

photosmart

think that the seat leon offer only applies to the higher spec model or am i missing something?

hometruths

photosmart wrote: »

think that the seat leon offer only applies to the higher spec model or am i missing something?

you're right it is just the top spec one on 0%

Idbatterim

op it is small fry but the yearly nct is E55 and obviously keeping the current car on the road cost in terms of repairs. Put it this way, you are sensible in that you know you dont save money by buying a new car, you will be worse off BUT I think at the small monthly increase, for a brand new car, its probably worth it...

Do consider that cheaper tax rates for newer cars won't last. People with older cars are propping up the car tax system and with more and more newer lower tax cars on the road it is only a matter of time that the goverment will push up the tax.

I cant see this happening to any meaningful degree, most people are on the virtually free rates of motor tax i.e. anything up to E280, what will they do, stick ten or twenty euro on them?

They are creaming it in on vrt and vat etc, they wont do anything drastic...

t4ff

I've found myself in a similar position and stumbled over this thread. 02 Ford Focus Ghia with 64k KM from new died on the way to work yesterday, chap in the garage said it's not worth stripping the engine as it'd cost more than the cars worth.

Assuming the car is essentially worthless and the fact I haven't got the cash to stump up for a deposit right now, I don't have much hope. I've taken a look around a few websites (namely Nissan + Seat) looking for deals mentioned in this thread, but can't find anything mentioning 0 deposit on scrappage? Is this something I'd be better off going into a dealership to ask about?

hometruths

t4ff wrote: »

I've found myself in a similar position and stumbled over this thread. 02 Ford Focus Ghia with 64k KM from new died on the way to work yesterday, chap in the garage said it's not worth stripping the engine as it'd cost more than the cars worth.

Assuming the car is essentially worthless and the fact I haven't got the cash to stump up for a deposit right now, I don't have much hope. I've taken a look around a few websites (namely Nissan + Seat) looking for deals mentioned in this thread, but can't find anything mentioning 0 deposit on scrappage? Is this something I'd be better off going into a dealership to ask about?

TBH maybe car has to be driving to get scrappage but not sure, you'd be best off popping into dealership to ask as you say.

Jacovs

t4ff wrote: »

I've found myself in a similar position and stumbled over this thread. 02 Ford Focus Ghia with 64k KM from new died on the way to work yesterday, chap in the garage said it's not worth stripping the engine as it'd cost more than the cars worth.

Assuming the car is essentially worthless and the fact I haven't got the cash to stump up for a deposit right now, I don't have much hope. I've taken a look around a few websites (namely Nissan + Seat) looking for deals mentioned in this thread, but can't find anything mentioning 0 deposit on scrappage? Is this something I'd be better off going into a dealership to ask about?

Think I mentioned earlier in the thread, Nissan scrappage deal requires no deposit, and the dealer told me if my car dies between now and delivery of the new car then I'd just have to get it towed to them. Long as it meets the nct, tax and insurance and other conditions mentioned on their website you are good to go.
And because I've ordered a new car, if my current car was to die they will give me a loan of a car until I get my new car.
They did require a €500 booking deposit but that's refundable once new car is delivered.

photosmart

Dacia are 0 deposit on their dusters. Not bad cars - they're on the road a few years now and have got good reviews from honestjohn/parkers etc

Brand new one for 17500 lower spec and 19500 mid spec

I test drove one recently and if I don;t go for a skoda it'll be a duster

cheers