Ammunition allowance drastically reduced on substitution?

amadablam

Hi all,

There is a similar thread here that has answered some of my questions but not all.

When you apply for a substitution, like for like is what I had been advised but my ammunition allowance was reduced from 1,000 to 100.

This might seem excessive but it was for my 22 pcp air rifle and you cant really purchase ammo in 1/5th of a tin of 500.

I always had a 1000 on this permit and I was sure it was a mistake but when I rang to check, I was advised that the Sargent reduced it.

When l asked why, I was told there is a directive to reduce ammo in the district.

My position however was still the same, I can't purchase 100 and furthermore, prior to the substitution, I had 1000 which I still have and I asked what was I to do?

I explained that these were not live ammunition and just pellets so it was referred to Dublin and I was told that it was rectified but upon receipt I was not to destroy the old license, rather I should deliver it to them at the station for destruction or filing.

A further licence was issued with 500 but I am going to contact them again as I previously had 1000 before the substitution was processed.

Is this not in breach of the substitution, like for like guideline? I know they are only guidelines but seriously, how ridiculous is this?

Should I continually keep speaking to the Sargent and secretary, because I am not making progress at all or should I write to the Super directly and try and meet with him?

Really frustrating to have a reduction like this because I already am in possession of the ammunition. I know they are pellets but effectively, I have been forced to be in breach of my firearms certificate allowance.

Any advice on how any of you have dealt with this situation? Thanks.

Sparks

It's stupid but not in breach of the guideline because, well, it's a guideline and there's no law governing how like for likes are done.

There *is* law however - supreme court case law - on the matter of blanket licencing decisions being made, so if there's a directive issued to the superintendent, that's fettering his decision making and that's not permitted under the law and several cases have been decided on this point in the last two decades. I wouldn't advise calling your solicitor today, because you've not seen this directive, but I wouldn't accept it either.

One to be brought up at the FCP I would have thought. As a first step, at least.

BattleCorp

amadablam wrote: »

Hi all,

There is a similar thread here that has answered some of my questions but not all.

When you apply for a substitution, like for like is what I had been advised but my ammunition allowance was reduced from 1,000 to 100.

This might seem excessive but it was for my 22 pcp air rifle and you cant really purchase ammo in 1/5th of a tin of 500.

I always had a 1000 on this permit and I was sure it was a mistake but when I rang to check, I was advised that the Sargent reduced it.

When l asked why, I was told there is a directive to reduce ammo in the district.

My position however was still the same, I can't purchase 100 and furthermore, prior to the substitution, I had 1000 which I still have and I asked what was I to do?

I explained that these were not live ammunition and just pellets so it was referred to Dublin and I was told that it was rectified but upon receipt I was not to destroy the old license, rather I should deliver it to them at the station for destruction or filing.

A further licence was issued with 500 but I am going to contact them again as I previously had 1000 before the substitution was processed.

Is this not in breach of the substitution, like for like guideline? I know they are only guidelines but seriously, how ridiculous is this?

Should I continually keep speaking to the Sargent and secretary, because I am not making progress at all or should I write to the Super directly and try and meet with him?

Really frustrating to have a reduction like this because I already am in possession of the ammunition. I know they are pellets but effectively, I have been forced to be in breach of my firearms certificate allowance.

Any advice on how any of you have dealt with this situation? Thanks.

I doubt the Sargent would have reduced it. It's the Super who makes licencing decisions.

amadablam

Sparks wrote: »

It's stupid but not in breach of the guideline because, well, it's a guideline and there's no law governing how like for likes are done.

There *is* law however - supreme court case law - on the matter of blanket licencing decisions being made, so if there's a directive issued to the superintendent, that's fettering his decision making and that's not permitted under the law and several cases have been decided on this point in the last two decades. I wouldn't advise calling your solicitor today, because you've not seen this directive, but I wouldn't accept it either.

One to be brought up at the FCP I would have thought. As a first step, at least.

Its an absolute joke, no matter what I explained about pellets not being live ammunition and only really coming in tins of 500, it didn't matter.

Effectively, by changing my rifle for a similar 22 air rifle, they have seen reason to cut my ammo amount.

In reality, they saw opportunity. Are they going to restrict ammo as a statistical metric of some sort? Ridiculous.

How would you advise contacting the FCP? I really think this is unfair and ridiculous. I've been shooting for well over 20 years and have multiple firearms.

Pellets are hard to get locally and I'd shoot a tin pretty fast at different times of the year

BattleCorp wrote: »

I doubt the Sargent would have reduced it. It's the Super who makes licencing decisions.

I asked and was told it was the Sargent that would have made this cut on allowance on a directive from the Super.

BattleCorp

I think your only option is to make an appointment to see the Super. He's the one you need to talk to and explain your case.

clivej

BattleCorp wrote: »

I think your only option is to make an appointment to see the Super. He's the one you need to talk to and explain your case.

And bring along 1 or 2 empty ammo tins to show him this is how you buy your pellets. And that he has effectively, in his decision, stopped you from being able to buy ammo

Cass

The Sergeant has no authority to edit, interfere with or alter your application no more than he has authority to amend (reduce or increase) the ammunition allowance on a license. Only a Super can make that decision.

Bypass the Sergeant as this is where your problem lies. Contact the Super's office and make an appointment to meet. Bring a can of pellets and explain what they are, how they work, and the fact that the cans come in tins of 500 and some cans may have more in the tin. The only way to know would be to count all pellets in each tin before buying which is not practical. As such you require 1,000 to make sure you remain within the limits of your license at all times.

As Sparks said above if the Sergeant is acting upon a policy issued by the Super then it's illegal, but as he also said you will never see any memo or document confirming this. However should you get a meeting and the Super should disclose this to you it might give you a small advantage in appealing this ridiculous limitation.