Apprenticeship Records

nikonuser

Hi there,
Can anyone advise of there are documents/lists specific to indentured Apprenticeships for Dublin in the 1870's? If there are, would they be available online?
A relative of mine was jailed for 2 weeks in Richmond Jail for being absent from his work as an apprentice in 1877. Would there have been a written contract for his apprenticeship?
Any advice or suggestions would be welcome.
J

pinkypinky

What sort of apprentice was he?

There are no apprenticeship records online, afaik, but records could be help by individual guilds.

nikonuser

Thanks for that. My relative was Coach Painter according so a few records I have. I'll start searching for that particular guild if there is or was one.
Cheers
J

pedroeibar1

There would have been a written contract - usually referred to as 'Articles of apprenticeship' or ‘Indentures’. They would have set out what both parties were obliged to do, describing meals/feeding, clothing (not always), days off, work duties, etc. The fee payable to the master was also detailed. They regularly were on preprinted forms, so there was little variation.
Usually (in England, don't know about Ireland) the apprenticeship was registered with its Guild in London, but the entry for those I’ve looked at are just a few lines, little but the names and addresses of Apprentice & his father, and the master.
If this thread is linked /also refers to your Gunmaker’ ancestor, Dublin was a centre of excellence for gunmaking in the early 1800,s firms like Rigby and Cavanagh were world class.

nikonuser

pedroeibar1,
The Gunmaker of the other thread is this persons father.

Thomas Meroe (Morrow) was born in Calcutta approx 1854. He was brought to Dublin before 1864 by his father & mother, John & Mary Anne Meroe. John was discharged from the Army in 1862 in Chatham. Mary Anne dies of Cholera 2 years later, in 1866, leaving John with 3 small children, not uncommon.

Would John have had to pay to get his son Thomas in to an apprenticeship? Can I assume this was a step up to get an apprenticeship? I think it would be unlikely to find written a contract for his time as a Coach Painter.

I have no information whether John utilised his gunmaking skills in Dublin, the few certificates I have refer to him as a 'Dealer' & one as a 'Cook'.

I am attaching Thomas' Prison Record if it may shine any light on the subject.
J

pedroeibar1

nikonuser wrote: »

Would John have had to pay to get his son Thomas in to an apprenticeship? Can I assume this was a step up to get an apprenticeship? I think it would be unlikely to find written a contract for his time as a Coach Painter.

I agree – it would be most unlikely to find a copy of his articles.

There most likely would have been a fee paid to the master, the amount of which always depended on the trade, the standing of the master, what was provided i.e. was it a ‘live –in’ apprenticeship, (most were, although many apprentices went home Saturday night until Monday morning), and what was provided in ‘kind’ – bed/ board/clothing. Most apprentices were not paid a wage, they got little more than pocket money. Hence the running away, particularly if the master was a tough one. I recall reading about a study where the 'absconding' rate increased in time of war.

Apprenticeship was an opportunity for a ‘leg up’ for the poorer boys, particularly if they were ambitious or bright/literate – they would get a trade, no mean achievement when the mass were 'labourers', they could enter the professions e.g. a bright kid could become an apprentice to a solicitor (as an ‘articled clerk’) and build a career once qualified. Not all trades took in apprentices as some post-dated the introduction of the laws governing apprenticeships.

Many apprentices were treated well, just like many domestic servants were, but had to work under the conditions that were accepted as the norm in that era. Dickens wrote quite a bit about apprenticeships and apprentices, ‘Oliver Twist’ is +/- based on them.

In my tree (maternal side) in the mid 1800’s a victualler’s son was apprenticed to a friend of his father’s in Cork and family lore says that his apprenticeship fee was £35. The London apprenticeship I mentioned earlier was much earlier.

nikonuser

pedroeibar1,

Thanks for that information.

The 'leg up' you refer certainly seems to have passed poor Thomas Meroe, the subject of this post.

Born in Calcutta in 1854 (ish) he ended his days in and out of the South Dublin Union finally dying of bronchitis in 1899. Two of his four children died of poverty related illnesses at young ages and all spent time in the SDU as did his wife who died after giving birth leaving him with 4 young children.

Tragic all round.

Thanks again for that information. A librarian from Dublin City Archives in Pearse St has given me the name of a book on Coach Builders of the time. I have my fingers crossed something may come of it.

Cheers
Jimmie