Scion fruit seeds

Avatar MIA

I'm hoping for a lay mans explanation of why seeds from a supermarket apple will not produce the same fruit as the apple it came from.

Is it because the seed that produced the commercial quality apple originally won the apple lottery, and scions from this tree will still produce these genetically pleasing apples.

However, because seeds from this apple can still produce wildly different apples in the same way two humans can produce a dark haired son and a red head son that we can get a much different tasting fruit.

Is that it or does that not sufficiently explain why a commercial apple could produce an almost unrecognisable tasting apple?

gk5000

You have it already mainly - the genetics. Red heads are only a few percent of the population. Imagine having one pleasing red head - there is only a few percent chance of having another red head never mind another pleasing redhead. In anycase each offspring shall be different from the parent.

The other complication with apples is that they are mostly all grafted - so you take the pleasing scion and graft it on to a root - and that way are guaranteed to have a duplicate pleasing tree in x years.

Commercial growers cannot afford to wait x years to see what they have - especially when maybe only one in a hundred or less shall be pleasing.

Avatar MIA

gk5000 wrote: »

You have it already mainly - the genetics. Red heads are only a few percent of the population. Imagine having one pleasing red head - there is only a few percent chance of having another red head never mind another pleasing redhead. In anycase each offspring shall be different from the parent.

The other complication with apples is that they are mostly all grafted - so you take the pleasing scion and graft it on to a root - and that way are guaranteed to have a duplicate pleasing tree in x years.

Commercial growers cannot afford to wait x years to see what they have - especially when maybe only one in a hundred or less shall be pleasing.

Great stuff, thanks.

Oldtree

Yes similar to us the seed is a cross between the 2 parent trees, so the seed will not come true to either parent and it takes a number of years to fund out what the apple will taste like.

Supermarket apples have been bred for disease resistance and shelf longevity and not necessarily taste, that's why imo they don't taste anything like varieties grown in the garden.

You can grow a shop apple seed but they usually taste more of the cooking variety or have other faults. Even seed from garden apple trees can be dubious.

I grew a seed from a garden tree for sentimental reasons, it is now 15 years old and has virtually no fruit. It does however have the redeeming feature of a very long flowering period compared to my other apples, pollinating them, and has a delicious aroma.

A seed from a supermarket apple will make a suitable root stock for grafting a variety you want onto.

Over the centuries many crosses have already been done giving us the many varietys we have today including heritage varietys

I have 6 old Irish varieties from Seed Savers in my garden and there were a lot if apples this year so I made apple jelly for the first time.

I also had a apple tree from the grandparents grafted for me years back as well as 6 different others of the small red variety that I grafted myself recently.

Avatar MIA

Oldtree wrote: »

I have 6 old Irish varieties from Seed Savers in my garden and there were a lot if apples this year so I made apple jelly for the first time.

I also had a apple tree from the grandparents grafted for me years back as well as 6 different others of the small red variety that I grafted myself recently.

Interesting, what did the apples from Seed Savers taste like?

Oldtree

Avatar MIA wrote: »

Interesting, what did the apples from Seed Savers taste like?

I like them but they have their own unique flavors, I got 3 cookers and 3 eaters. I bought them based on their pedigree being from the western half of the island, and 1 from an old tree, more conservation than taste was my idea with them.

I can only remember the names of 3 of them: Ard Cairn Russet, Irish Peach and Lough Tree of Wexford.

If you are thinking of growing an apple it would be best if you could taste your chosen variety before buying and spending time growing. Seed Savers have tasting days, but may have some of the apples you are interested in for you to taste in storage. I had a quick look at their site and they are sold out of many varieties this year. A year is nothing in an apple trees life so no harm waiting till next year to get exactly what you want. There are lots of commoner varieties that taste lovely too and are readily available in your local nursery.

It is bareroot season at the moment and imo the best time of year to buy plants. You are looking for a good healthy root system and no damage/cankers to the stem or branches. The plant can be put in a healing in bed temporarily, until you are ready to plant in the final position on a dry winters day when the ground is not frozen. If the plant needs support then and oblique stake and rubber ties are the way to go.

stake like this, for easy and non damaging stake removal later on: (the hole dosn't need to be this big)


rubber ties like this (with 2 rectangle holes), easily tightened and loosened and non damaging to the bark as it has a bit of give:


Seed Savers catalogue has a small amount of info on the tastes:

http://www.irishseedsavers.ie/AppleCatalogue2013.pdf

http://store.irishseedsavers.ie/Organic_Fruit_Trees_s/42.htm

Avatar MIA

Thanks, that's superb information.

I might be getting involved in this area professionally and I may have to lurk around here more often.