Pay for travel time?

Widdershins

http://www.thejournal.ie/workers-paid-travel-employed-help-change-2324807-Sep2015/


Anyone know what the current legal situation is with regards to travel time to a fixed place of work?

2Mad2BeMad

Widdershins wrote: »

http://www.thejournal.ie/workers-paid-travel-employed-help-change-2324807-Sep2015/


Anyone know what the current legal situation is with regards to travel time to a fixed place of work?

Their is none.
You can't make it to your job thats in a "fixed place of work" then don't take the job, why would they pay you to travel when they can hire someone closer.

Widdershins

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

Their is none.
You can't make it to your job thats in a "fixed place of work" then don't take the job, why would they pay you to travel when they can hire someone closer.

Thanks for your response. It's just a query. I don't believe I said I can't make it.
If you read the article, the judge in that case had a different outlook to yours.
And they hired me because I'm the most suitable person in the area and willing to accept the appalling wages.

Walter2016

Widdershins wrote: »

Thanks for your response. It's just a query. I don't believe I said I can't make it.
If you read the article, the judge in that case had a different outlook to yours.
And they hired me because I'm the most suitable person in the area and willing to accept the appalling wages.

Judge didn't have different opinion - in the report the workers do not have a fixed workplace, effectively their base is their home. So if they travel to a job they are entitled to be paid from time they leave their base (home).

Fairly standard here from my own experience.

Widdershins

Walter2016 wrote: »

Judge didn't have different opinion - in the report the workers do not have a fixed workplace, effectively their base is their home. So if they travel to a job they are entitled to be paid from time they leave their base (home).

Fairly standard here from my own experience.

Hm, that's true. What I have in common with them is that the distance I travel does vary. I usually start at the main workplace but I never know in advance where I might be sent to that day. Sometimes I'm told at 10pm the night before, sometimes at 6am on the day, sometimes when I arrive at what I refer to as my fixed place of work. I'm also expected to give lifts to my employers and pick things up and drop them off, at times. I wouldn't say all of that is highly exceptional for the job but the unpredictability of it and the amount I travel varies so much and there's no set terms for this.

Donal55

Widdershins wrote: »

Hm, that's true. What I have in common with them is that the distance I travel does vary. I usually start at the main workplace but I never know in advance where I might be sent to that day. Sometimes I'm told at 10pm the night before, sometimes at 6am on the day, sometimes when I arrive at what I refer to as my fixed place of work. I'm also expected to give lifts to my employers and pick things up and drop them off, at times. I wouldn't say all of that is highly exceptional for the job but the unpredictability of it and the amount I travel varies so much and there's no set terms for this.

Are you in a company car? Do you have a fuel card? Are you paid mileage? If you haven't or get none of any of the above I would say it is exceptional.

Widdershins

Donal55 wrote: »

Are you in a company car? Do you have a fuel card? Are you paid mileage? If you haven't or get none of any of the above I would say it is exceptional.

My own vehicle. No fuel card. I'm not paid mileage.
I can see why they ask me but I do feel they take advantage a bit. But it's rarely anywhere near the 100kms mentioned in that article. The most was about 70kms. I was asked to do that when I was nearly finished the days work, so it had to be done after work hours.
I am paid for tolls.

Donal55

Widdershins wrote: »

My own vehicle. No fuel card. I'm not paid mileage.
I can see why they ask me but I do feel they take advantage a bit. But it's rarely anywhere near the 100kms mentioned in that article. The most was about 70kms. I was asked to do that when I was nearly finished the days work.

I don't mean to be offensive but they're ridin you. What about insurance?Do they know its used for work ?Have you indemnity?

Widdershins

Donal55 wrote: »

I don't mean to be offensive but they're ridin you.

I kind of thought so.

Stheno

As you've a fixed office it's irrelevant

You are based in office a while working in others so no obligation on your employer

That ruling was for mobile workers with no fixed office

Widdershins

Stheno wrote: »

As you've a fixed office it's irrelevant

You are based in office a while working in others so no obligation on your employer

That ruling was for mobile workers with no fixed office

Disregard that. I didn't read it properly.

I only have a verbal contract which didn't cover the extra driving. While it wasn't supposed to be part of the job it's become part of the job now, I just wondered if I have grounds to ask for some kind of allowance.

Stheno

Widdershins wrote: »

Disregard that. I didn't read it properly.

I only have a verbal contract which didn't cover the extra driving. While it wasn't supposed to be part of the job it's become part of the job now, I just wondered if I have grounds to ask for some kind of allowance.

In short no.

There are also revenue rules around it.

Legally you are entitled to nothing

Widdershins

Stheno wrote: »

In short no.

There are also revenue rules around it.

Legally you are entitled to nothing

Thanks for the information.
In that case, to be fair to them, they're making sure I get everything I'm entitled to

carltonleon

Hang on, is this a wind up ???

They ask you to go and collect things in your own car, sometimes up to 70km, give lifts to employers etc.
What about wear and tear on your car, tyres ? Service costs ? If you breakdown on route, will they pay for repair or assistance ? You are paying for your own petrol and they expect you to do it ?

Start getting the bus to work or say your wife / husband / son / daughter / someone you saw crossing the road twice removed / ****ing anyone / needs the car.

MADNESS !! Pure and simple, employers taking the piss simple as that. Jaysus, they'll be asking you to collect a curry for them on a Saturday night next, FFS !!!

Widdershins

carltonleon wrote: »

Hang on, is this a wind up ???

They ask you to go and collect things in your own car, sometimes up to 70km, give lifts to employers etc.
What about wear and tear on your car, tyres ? Service costs ? If you breakdown on route, will they pay for repair or assistance ? You are paying for your own petrol and they expect you to do it ?

Start getting the bus to work or say your wife / husband / son / daughter / someone you saw crossing the road twice removed / ****ing anyone / needs the car.

MADNESS !! Pure and simple, employers taking the piss simple as that. Jaysus, they'll be asking you to collect a curry for them on a Saturday night next, FFS !!!

Thank you! I was going to mention wear and tear here but wondered if I was being peevish! If I can't just ask for an allowance I could approach it that way, alright. Although I can't get the bus because there isn't one going out there, I can say the car's needed straight after work so they can't ask me to run errands then.

carltonleon

Stheno wrote: »

In short no.

There are also revenue rules around it.

Legally you are entitled to nothing

If I am reading this properly, you are saying that he/she is not entitled to any allowance/mileage for carrying out business tasks in his own car and at his expense (wear and tear, fuel etc).
Tell them that the next time they want something collected or dropped that they can get you a taxi or else contribute to the upkeep of your own 'personal and private and non business related' car.

Buffman

There is information here about what expenses you should be getting. (I've said 'should' because from what you've said so far you're employer is taking the p1ss regarding expenses.)

Widdershins wrote: »

I usually start at the main workplace but I never know in advance where I might be sent to that day. Sometimes I'm told at 10pm the night before, sometimes at 6am on the day, sometimes when I arrive at what I refer to as my fixed place of work.

How are you being contacted at 10pm or 6am? Do you have a company phone? Are you on call at those times?

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm also expected to give lifts to my employers and pick things up and drop them off, at times.

As suggested above, you need to check with your insurance company if you're covered for this. Unless you've paid the extra for the correct class of insurance you're not covered. From the Insurance thread in Motors:

MugMugs wrote: »

What are the different Insurance Classes?

There are four main types.

Class 1a Social Domestic and Pleasure - This is normal vehicle use and includes commuting to and from work your normal place of work.

Class 1b Includes use for business by the Policyholder. This would cover use by the insured in connection with their profession and travelling to different locations but excludes commercial travelling and the transit of commercial goods.

Class 2 Includes carriage of commercial goods and samples in connection with the insureds employment. Ideal for a small business but excludes commercial travelling

Class 3 covers Commercial travelling. Ideal for the likes of a Rep etc...

Widdershins

Buffman wrote: »

There is information here about what expenses you should be getting. (I've said 'should' because from what you've said so far you're employer is taking the p1ss regarding expenses.)

How are you being contacted at 10pm or 6am? Do you have a company phone? Are you on call at those times?




As suggested above, you need to check with your insurance company if you're covered for this. Unless you've paid the extra for the correct class of insurance you're not covered. From the Insurance thread in Motors:

I'm informed by text message on my own personal mobile phone. Or they tell me what the plan is once I get there in the morning. I'm not on call at all, no. Insurance issues never crossed my mind so thanks for that

eeguy

Widdershins wrote: »

Hm, that's true. What I have in common with them is that the distance I travel does vary. I usually start at the main workplace but I never know in advance where I might be sent to that day. .

This point is key.

If you drive to work and are expected to drive to another site after, then you are entitled to some form of renumeration (on the citizens information website: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it51.html).

I've driven to work and then to the site a few times, even though I'd be quicker driving direct, just so I can claim milage.

Buffman

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm informed by text message on my own personal mobile phone.

Make sure you keep track of all work related costs on your personal phone and submit those as expenses.

Widdershins wrote: »

Insurance issues never crossed my mind so thanks for that

Ye, insurance companies will be asking some awkward questions if you and a car full of your colleagues are injured on your way to a site.

A former colleague of mine had a nasty incident a few years ago when his car was heavily vandalised while he was on a job in Dublin without the correct class of insurance. Not only did the insurance not cover him, they almost cancelled his policy for non-disclosure. And if you ever have a policy cancelled for any reason, it's s major hassle getting another policy.

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

markpb

eeguy wrote: »

If you drive to work and are expected to drive to another site after, then you are entitled to some form of renumeration (on the citizens information website: http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it51.html).

Widdershins is not *entitled* to anything, it's at the companys discretion whether it's paid or not. The link you've provided is Revenue explaining what the company can pay in expenses before it becomes a taxable benefit in kind or what the employee can claim back in tax relief.

I'm not saying that they shouldn't get mileage, they should but it's not an entitlement.

eflexes

Unless specifically stated in your contract, you will not get paid for travel time.

Widdershins

I only have a verbal contract and travel wasn't mentioned in that, at all.

carltonleon

eflexes wrote: »

Unless specifically stated in your contract, you will not get paid for travel time.

It's not travel time. They are specific jobs that he/she is being asked to do out of the normal travelling to and from work. It's like 'sure you are getting a bus home to Santry, sure just get a bus to Newbridge and drop this packet off for me and then get your normal bus home but we are not paying your bus fare to Newbridge we expect you to pay that yourself and don't go on work time we expect you to do it after work hours' . ****ing MADNESS !!!

OldMrBrennan83

This post has been deleted.

Widdershins

I'm veering between feeling like an entitled brat and a complete mug

bren2001

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm veering between feeling like an entitled brat and a complete mug

Take a read of this:

http://www.revenue.ie/en/tax/it/leaflets/it54.html

Essentially, if you use your own car you are entitled to be reimbursed using those guidelines.

If you travel from home to an temporary place of work you are entitled to the mileage between your house and the temporary place OR your fixed place of work and the temporary place (whichever is cheaper).

If you travel from your office to anywhere, you are entitled to be reimbursed.

It's really that simple.

Buffman

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm veering between feeling like an entitled brat and a complete mug

No need to feel entitled because at the moment you are actually subsidising the company with a 'free' vehicle. I can't see how they can pay for your tolls and not pay you a mileage rate.

Have you estimated how much extra fuel you use for work related driving? It's essentially money straight out of your pocket, on which you're paying tax twice. (Once at payroll and again when buying fuel). All expenses and mileage up the the civil service rate would be tax free, if you were getting them.

Widdershins

Buffman wrote: »

No need to feel entitled because at the moment you are actually subsidising the company with a 'free' vehicle. I can't see how they can pay for your tolls and not pay you a mileage rate.

Have you estimated how much extra fuel you use for work related driving? It's essentially money straight out of your pocket, on which you're paying tax twice. (Once at payroll and again when buying fuel). All expenses and mileage up the the civil service rate would be tax free, if you were getting them.

I had to tell them I had no change, which was true.
I've never worked out how much extra fuel I use. I must do that..

Buffman

Widdershins wrote: »

I only have a verbal contract and travel wasn't mentioned in that, at all.

I think it might be worth bringing it up with your boss, don't worry about 'rocking the boat'. Are there any actual company vehicles in the company or do other employees use their own vehicles also?

Widdershins wrote: »

I've never worked out how much extra fuel I use. I must do that..

I bet you'll be surprised, even if you drive a frugal diesel, it'll all add up.

You should get a written contract.

screamer

just tell them that your insurance doesn't cover using your vehicle for work purposes and politely refuse to do these journeys any longer. make up some story about a mate of yours doing similar and having a small tip and not being covered and then say you rang to check your own policy.

Glass fused light

You are subsidising your employer's costs and giving your self a pay cut by not agreeing mileage. As note they are not legally obliged to pay but common sense and appreciation of your contribution should make talking to your employer a simple business discussion. If paying reasonable costs are a problem for your employer you should consider your long term prospect with the company.

Your employer is legaly obliged to give you written terms and conditions see Citizens Information

And they should have reissued it when your job spec changed.

It should cover mileage and other motor costs and pay for travel times (and if you want to push the boat out feeding yourself when traveling).
Check if the company has a employee handbook as this should be covered. They must have some kind of reclaim policy if you are being paid the toll

The payment are not a bik if you follow the revenue guidelines (per prior posts).
Keep your own record of the claim for 7 years to cover you if you get a revenue inspection.

If you are traveling even in your car, they should have covered themselves under health and safety on the road worthiness of your vehicle, your driving licence and insurance.
If you are carrying other employees as passengers they should be paying the difference in your insurance.

pilly

I go to the bank for work and I claim mileage for it. It wasn't in any contract either. Just as soon as it came up I said "what way do you want me to deal with that? Mileage or receipts?" A company would be fairly cheeky to turn it down.

Widdershins

Can I just ask for a written contract? I'll go and google it as well, it can just be hard to find information that's specific.
I'm a bit reluctant to ask for anything with no contract on paper and because someone else asked for a pay rise and their personal budgeting ability was questioned. They were asked ''what do you do with all of the money''.
I'll start by calculating how much driving I actually do for them, apart from my normal trip to and from work.
And look into my insurance situation!

Buffman

Widdershins wrote: »

Can I just ask for a written contract? I'll go and google it as well, it can just be hard to find information that's specific.

Yes, you should have been give a written statement of terms of employment within 2 months of starting. More info here:

Widdershins wrote: »

I'm a bit reluctant to ask for anything with no contract on paper and because someone else asked for a pay rise and their personal budgeting ability was questioned. They were asked ''what do you do with all of the money''.

Sounds like you're working for chancers TBH, is it a new enough company? Is there a high turnover of staff?

Widdershins

Buffman wrote: »

Yes, you should have been give a written statement of terms of employment within 2 months of starting. More info here:

Sounds like you're working for chancers TBH, is it a new enough company? Is there a high turnover of staff?

I'm afraid they'll recognise me if I say too much. It's fairly new, and only a few employees.

Thank you for that link.