If a new team were to join the League of Ireland, who should it be?

Omackeral

I posted this question in the LOI main thread but thought this question could reach further afield here and maybe have some input from people who aren't necessarily fans of a team yet might have an interest if a team near them joined.

So what possibilities are there? The current situation is this, 20 teams across two divisions. 12 in the Premier and 8 in the First Division. 8 teams in the first division IMO isn't really ideal and I was wondering, if any clubs were to join, where would they come from?


I reckon a Kerry LOI team would be great I think. Tralee Dynamos were in the old A Championship (which was the 3rd tier of LOI football until a few years ago) and would be a welcome addition from me. Soccer/Football in Kerry has a strong scene and I'd like to see them compete. I doubt anyone wants yet another Dublin team with a whopping 6 already involved, including the newest LOI team Cabinteely.

I usually hear Castlebar Celtic mentioned too when this pops up. Carlow, Mullingar? Anything decent in Navan or Portlaoise, two big towns. Monaghan and Kilkenny, despite going bust, could be options again knowing this country. Other left field suggestions in recent times were Newry City joining our league and even an Isle of Mann team! What are your thoughts or suggestions?

Here's the current locations;

Carlow - No team in LOI FC Carlow played in A Championship
Cavan - No team in LOI
Clare - No team in LOI
Cork - Cork City, Cobh Ramblers
Derry - Derry City
Donegal - Finn Harps Fanad United played in A Championship
Dublin - Bohs, Pats, Shamrock Rovers, Shelbourne, UCD, Cabinteely
Galway - Galway United Salthill Devon and Mervue Utd played in First Division previously
Kerry - No team in LOI Tralee Dynamos played in A Championship
Kildare - No team in LOI Kildare County wound up in 2009
Kilkenny - No team in LOI Kilkenny City resigned in 2008
Laois - No team in LOI
Leitrim - No team in LOI
Limerick - Limerick City
Longford - Longford Town
Louth - Dundalk, Drogheda United
Mayo - No team in LOI Castlebar Celtic played in A Championship
Meath - No team in LOI
Monaghan - No team in LOI Monaghan United resigned in 2012
Offaly - No team in LOI Tullamore Town played in A Championship
Roscommon - Athlone Town
Sligo - Sligo Rovers
Tipperary - No team in LOI
Waterford - Waterford United
Westmeath - Athlone Town
Wexford - Wexford Youths
Wicklow - Bray Wanderers

CSF

As many as can actually function tbh without the need for private backing (nothing against private investment but there needs to be a core to a club that could exist independently of the private funds).

Cabinteely look like a great addition to the LOI whereas Sporting Fingal always seemed destined for failure.

I would have thought counties like Kerry and Carlow would have been places that could sustain a team if done right.

dobman88

Down in Kerry, we entered a team in the LOI U-17 league this season. It's a long term project to hopefully have a LOI team in future.

kksaints

I know its way back but Tipperary did have a team in the LOI before, Thurles Town played in the league from 1977 to 1982. Also I remember seeing Portlaoise linked with the A-Championship in the 2008 preview guide that was with the Star but I don't think anything ever came from it.

As I said in the LOI thread Monaghan and Kerry in particular should be the main targets to get teams into the First Division. Both have teams in the U-17 and Kerry I think have plans for an U-19 team.

Some counties such as Leitrim or Cavan will never have teams.

MD1990

Athlone have not gone under yet.

The Golden Miller

Get backers to invest in resurrecting Belfast Celtic and then apply to join the LOI. Going forward it will be hard to sustain many of the current teams let alone getting new ones to join, such is the gloryhunting mentality in Ireland

wadacrack

Portlaoise id say, big town decent access to Dublin and centrally located to help attracted players/fans

Agent Coulson

A team from the South East Carlow/Kilkenny area.

Ragnar Lothbrok

I think one of the main problems is that any new LOI team would need to be based in a reasonably sized urban-ish location in order to attract a reasonable level of support. To help the geographic spread of LOI football, this would make me think that maybe Tipp town and Portlaoise would be ideal.

Having said that, I have little or no knowledge of football outside of the Premier and First divisions, so I don't know if Tipperary or Portlaoise even have decent non-league teams that could make the step up.

I'd like to see Tralee Dynamoes in the LOI simply because of their location (ie not too far from Cork) but I'm sure I've read that they don't want LOI football there because of the expense involved.

Ireland has two major problems when it comes to LOI football in that the population doesn't really warrant two main nationwide divisions, and that GAA (certainly) and rugby (probably) are two more popular sports competing for punters.

I've sometimes thought that the First Division should be two divisions separated geographically, with the champions of each of them replacing the bottom two clubs in the Premier Division. That way we could probably sustain two lower divisions as travelling costs would be less. Cobh Ramblers making trips to Finn Harps must have been a nightmare.

Tralee Dynamos were in that 3rd tier alright a few years back. And Tralee has a decent facility in Mounthawk, a few pitches, stands etc.

And think both they and Killarney Celtic tried a stint in the Munster Senior League in the 00s but found that it's expensive to get players to matches in Tramore etc. And there wasn't so much interest in the home ties. Maybe facing Cobh and Waterford United, or better still if they were successful playing against Limerick and the golden ticket of Cork City would draw fans. But the step up is huge, and until they got the Citys and Bohs and Drogs in Kerry, frankly being a small fish in a big pond, losing matches, against teams that the supporters don't really care about isn't as attractive as Killarney-Tralee clashes for cups and leagues in Kerry.

niallo27

Love a team in clare and I think we could get a few thousand every week in ennis. Big immigrant town and a big local interest as well.

Sue Pa Key Pa

What incentive is there for a well run club to enter the asylum?

Between affiliation fees, fines, low prize money, stupid licence requirements, expenses & travel, it could break you. Be under no illusion, LOI only exists to allow Delaney & Co. buy drinks for the "greatest fans in the world" on the way to international matches. If it wasn't a requirement to have a domestic league, he would kick us to the kerb

Omackeral

MD1990 wrote: »

Athlone have not gone under yet.

Oops, that actually brings two more counties on board I suppose! I'll fix it now.

Omackeral

Agent Coulson wrote: »

A team from the South East Carlow/Kilkenny area.

This brought up an interesting thread. It's from a good while back (2007) so was possibly always BS as we've heard nothing since but interesting to read anyway. I'll put the full thread in a link at the bottom.

Poster 1: Its really quite simple, our club South East FC is named after the Region we are from!!! The South East (Carlow, Wexford, Wicklow, Kilkenny region). As with a lot of leagues around the country they cover more than their county as in the "Carlow and District Junior League".
This is not the GAA and we are not just representing 1 county.

Poster 2: I cannot see potential fans identifying with a 'region' club called South East FC. Football is tribal, a regional club isn't. And in any case, wouldn't someone from Wicklow be supporting Bray, someone from Kilkenny supporting Kilkenny City, and someone from Wexford supporting Wexford Youths? Why would any potential football fan support SE FC over a team based in their own county? I don't see the logic of the name. At the end of the day it looks like ye will be drawing most support from the Carlow area anyway......

http://foot.ie/archive/index.php/t-62946.html

artanevilla

There's simply no scope for another team in the league of Ireland, traditionally new clubs maybe attracted a few fans for a while until the gimmick wore off and they went under.

The list of clubs that have gone under in the past would have come from areas that you'd consider as having the population to sustain support.

Example include Kildare County, Kilkenny City, Monahan United, Sporting Fingal et al.

Others that fit the bill are in serious trouble of following, including Athlone and Waterford.

More regional team still have very poor attendance including Longford and Wexford Youths

Teams also have a huge fall off in support when going through lean times, Shels' and Drogheda's attendances pale in comparison to recent years when they were winning titles.

Dundalk, who were one of the best attended teams in the league this season, are benefiting from their success, a lot of those people weren't around in the bad times.

It's not like there's a bunch of people out there gagging to go to LOI games and the only reason they're not is because there's none near them.

topmanamillion

The Mayo League plan to put a side in the league by 2020.

The national underage leagues are really putting the pressure on a lot of the big local leagues to put a representative into the LOI.
If you don't have a side in the underage leagues you`re instantly cut out of underage development.
Its really pissing off the likes of Kevins that they are being locked out of the youth leagues.
It`ll possibly take 5=10 years but when the likes of Mayo and Kerry start producing quality players through the youth leagues and League of Ireland clubs take them off their hands at 18 or 19 they`ll quickly get sick of it and enter a team in the LOI.

I fully take on board artanevilla`s points. The lack of teams in the league is far from its biggest problem. I remember a time when there was 12 First Division clubs and it didn't make a blind bit of difference. The league needs to be run properly with the teams that are already there before dreaming of expansion.

We need to create a league where every club is viable be they getting in 200 people a week or 2000.

For some clubs FD football will be just their level. That doesn't mean they still cant contribute heavily to the league. The likes of UCD are often ridiculed but there probably isn't a club in the league that doesn't have a few ex UCD players in their team. The likes of McMillan and Benson at Dundalk spring to mind. Maybe they would have been lost if education wasn't part of the deal playing LOI.

Its a real shame there isn't a pyramid structure of say:
a PD of 10
a FD of 10
4 or 5 intermediate leagues feeding into the FD.

That would be ideal.

MD1990

A league similar to the A champioship should be set up again & not be too strict on fee's etc.
Create a proper 3rd tier where teams like Carlow,Kerry,Kilkenny etc can join.

Harry Palmr

There are already too many teams.

Royal Legend

Man Utd, so as to give Jose some chance of winning another league title

Omackeral

Harry Palmr wrote: »

There are already too many teams.

In the Premier Division or overall?

Sue Pa Key Pa

I think this season has proven to me that an amateur team, like my own Wexford Youths, cannot properly compete in the top tier. We either change our ethos (good luck convincing Mick on that one) or accept that the First Division is our level. I'd have no problem supporting my team in a competitive 14 team First Division, but if we stick with 8 teams playing eachother every 2nd week, it will collapse

pablomakaveli

MD1990 wrote: »

A league similar to the A championship should be set up again & not be too strict on fee's etc.
Create a proper 3rd tier where teams like Carlow,Kerry,Kilkenny etc can join.

I always thought the A championship was a good idea but not very well implemented.

Reinstate it and have it regionalized so Munster, Lenister and Connaught/Ulster for example. Have the regional winners playoff for promotion to the FD. Also no entry fees for the FAI would be a must and with the regional setup it would minimize costs and hopefully make it more enticing. We really could do with an organic path for clubs to progress up the league structure as theirs currently quite a big disconnect between the LOI and the amateur leagues.

In terms of teams it'd be great to see the likes of Kilkenny City, Kildare County and Monaghan United make a return. Portlaoise, Mayo and Kerry would also really extend the reach of the LOI in the country. All teams that could add something in counties with currently no LOI team.

Stevecw

Agent Coulson wrote: »

A team from the South East Carlow/Kilkenny area.

There was FC Carlow who played in the A Championship.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F.C._Carlow

But recently most good players from Carlow are playing with Wexford Youths. They have a link with IT Carlow and have trained there and used the coaching and facilities.
I think a south east team, would work better. If it was based in Carlow town and used Carlow IT's top class set up.

Carlow are not very good at gaelic football or hurling and is crying out for a team to get behind. The Carlow & District soccer league is very strong. A Carlow based LOI team would work, but need to base it around IT Carlow which would ruin Wexford Youths a bit.

Guy:Incognito

Surely the answer here is to heavily back Catalan independence (in the backround) then offer Barcelona anything they want to join.

topmanamillion

Harry Palmr wrote: »

There are already too many teams.

Omackeral wrote: »

In the Premier Division or overall?

Judging by his post history I would guess he means there are 20 teams too many.

Neon_Lights

You'd need to get proper provincial leagues set up to achieve this i.e. Munster Senior League is predominantly Cork. Connacht senior league would need revival.

I like the regional league idea though, and is probably the most feasible.

You'd also need to sort out a proper transferrance between different levels of the LSL and AUL which is a bit muddled to say the least. The likes of Sherriff YC and Killbarrack could probably play at a high level in the LSL.

It would probably end up as a matter of course, that the most populous areas would thrive though. Its just the way it is.

Harry Palmr

Omackeral wrote: »

In the Premier Division or overall?

Well it's a mess and one that's going to be highlighted by the riches that Dundalk are gathering this season. Assuming they don't go on a bender and blow it all on coke and hookers they'll be impossible to match from here on. So what do the rest do? Play to finish second every season (or to avoid relegation?), whoopee. A clutch of semi professional (to varying degrees) clubs scrapping over scraps with Dundalk looking down from upon high is doomed to perpetual mediocrity

It would be better to actually rip up the whole thing and have only 100% amateur sides,. What would happen to Dundalk's loot? That would have to go into the "national" pot for player and facility development. Obviously it'll never happen as the Louth side will say we earned it, which they did. Which means the current neither fish nor fowl set up is going to continue and even be impossible to change as one club will dictate terms one way or another.

justshane

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Well it's a mess and one that's going to be highlighted by the riches that Dundalk are gathering this season. Assuming they don't go on a bender and blow it all on coke and hookers they'll be impossible to match from here on. So what do the rest do? Play to finish second every season (or to avoid relegation?), whoopee. A clutch of semi professional (to varying degrees) clubs scrapping over scraps with Dundalk looking down from upon high is doomed to perpetual mediocrity

It would be better to actually rip up the whole thing and have only 100% amateur sides,. What would happen to Dundalk's loot? That would have to go into the "national" pot for player and facility development. Obviously it'll never happen as the Louth side will say we earned it, which they did. Which means the current neither fish nor fowl set up is going to continue and even be impossible to change as one club will dictate terms one way or another.

Just a little bit dramatic.

topmanamillion

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Well it's a mess and one that's going to be highlighted by the riches that Dundalk are gathering this season. Assuming they don't go on a bender and blow it all on coke and hookers they'll be impossible to match from here on. So what do the rest do? Play to finish second every season (or to avoid relegation?), whoopee. A clutch of semi professional (to varying degrees) clubs scrapping over scraps with Dundalk looking down from upon high is doomed to perpetual mediocrity

It would be better to actually rip up the whole thing and have only 100% amateur sides,. What would happen to Dundalk's loot? That would have to go into the "national" pot for player and facility development. Obviously it'll never happen as the Louth side will say we earned it, which they did. Which means the current neither fish nor fowl set up is going to continue and even be impossible to change as one club will dictate terms one way or another.

Ravings of a mad man there!

For a start Dundalk will not be looking down on anyone for a number of reasons.

1. There's a limited pool of talent in this country. Accumulating a massive talented squad isn't going to happen, for example Sean Maguire left Dundalk because he wasn't guaranteed game time. The leagues top performers aren't going to be content sitting on Dundalks bench and any that would be aren't the type of players Kenny would want.

To really move ahead of the rest Dundalk would have to look abroad and circa E5M after expenses won't go far there and very few decent foreign players would be interested in the LOI anyway.
Dundalk are as good as they are going to get. Is adding even E200k onto the wage bill really going to supply anymore tangible results than this season? Surely they are already the top destination within the LOI for any domestic player.

2. Dundalk need to sort out their stadium situation. Again, E5M will quickly disappear when you start talking about laying a new pitch and building new stands.

3. The Champions route in the Champions league is being reduced after next season so the ability of Dundalk or any other LOI side to progress in the Champions League qualifiers will be greatly reduced.

As for the league going amateur I have no idea what that would achieve!

civis_liberalis

niallo27 wrote: »

Love a team in clare and I think we could get a few thousand every week in ennis. Big immigrant town and a big local interest as well.

Not a chance. That would be an average attendance far in excess of the single highest attended match in the First Division this year... Cork and Dundalk are the only two LOI teams in the country who would have bigger crowds than that.

Realistically, a team in Clare would struggle badly because while you are trying to build up a following, you still have to keep the lights on and that costs a lot, even with no professional players.

You're looking at low triple figures attendances, because the First Division is just not attractive.

That's not to say Clare can't or shouldn't have a LOI team, I'm just laying out how difficult it is.

civis_liberalis

civis_liberalis wrote: »

Not a chance. That would be an average attendance far in excess of the single highest attended match in the First Division this year... Cork and Dundalk are the only two LOI teams in the country who would have bigger crowds than that.

Realistically, a team in Clare would struggle badly because while you are trying to build up a following, you still have to keep the lights on and that costs a lot, even with no professional players.

You're looking at low triple figures attendances, because the First Division is just not attractive.

Yeah. I'd seriously doubt any club coming into the league could hope to even occasionally break 1k. There'd be a novelty factor for a few games, then it'd settle down. Look at Kildare County, based in a very large town beside a train station within a short distance of Dublin - easy access for opposition fans, build up a rivalry, easy for away trips etc. Averaged around 250, folded after 6 or 7 years.

Tomagotchye

A mayo team likely wouldn't be supported. It's GAA or premier league. People think league of Ireland is ****e and it would be difficult to get people to drive all the way to castlebar to watch games. It'd be a filler team only

Jimbob1977

Royal Legend wrote: »

Man Utd, so as to give Jose some chance of winning another league title

Could Paul Pogba do it on a wet Tuesday night in Ballybofey?

Captain Havoc

I'd like to see an already established team from Kilkenny enter, like Evergreen. They'd have fans to start, they're already producing players at underage (Seani Maguire, Gavan Holohan, Dave Mulcahy, Mikey Drennan, Jimmy Kehohane and yours truly). They have facilities. I think a brand new club from scratch would be hard. I also know Evergreen have zero intention of entering the LoI.

Sirsok

Being from Kilkenny I would have to say here, great soccer community, even though our local league is a shambles but we seem to produce some good players, Mikey Drennan, Gavan Holohan, Gary Breen, David Mulcahy and young Eoin Wall at waterford, as well as a few lads that played with wexford youths and waterford utd in the years gone.

We have a good ground in Buckley park, but its just empty.

Evergreen and freebooters do all right in the leinster juniors and it might put a stop to those clubs stockpiling the best players from other clubs, our premier division has 7 teams and 4 of them are made up of evergreen and freebooters A and B teams.

The ladies team in the national league arw in their second year as a young team and regulary draw good crowds.

wadacrack

Sirsok wrote: »

Being from Kilkenny I would have to say here, great soccer community, even though our local league is a shambles but we seem to produce some good players, Mikey Drennan, Gavan Holohan, Gary Breen, David Mulcahy and young Eoin Wall at waterford, as well as a few lads that played with wexford youths and waterford utd in the years gone.

We have a good ground in Buckley park, but its just empty.

Evergreen and freebooters do all right in the leinster juniors and it might put a stop to those clubs stockpiling the best players from other clubs, our premier division has 7 teams and 4 of them are made up of evergreen and freebooters A and B teams.

The ladies team in the national league arw in their second year as a young team and regulary draw good crowds.

I think a team in the Tullamore, Portlaoise, Carlow town, Kilkenny area would be a good asset. 2 Intermediate sides in Tullamore and Portlaoise and decent Junior sides in Carlow and Kilkenny. Kilkenny would probably be the best bet tho with Buckley Park and a history of LOI football.

osarusan

Ive seen amateur calculations that put the bare essential costs of running a LOI side at about €150,000 - €200,000 per year, and that's without paying players anything other than a €50 a week minimum.

And that's without needing to improve facilities to meet minimum LOI standard.

Can that be sustained - and that's just enough to more than likely languish in the first division with the other teams who are spending nothing.

Not counting Swords, Navan and Ennis are the next biggest towns that don't have LOI teams. Then Kilkenny, Tralee, Carlow. Already you are talking about populations of under 30,000 people.

Ferris_Bueller

I would love nothing more than a team from Kildare to resurface again, but I can't see it happening based on Kildare County folding a few years back. I would love to see Newbridge Town enter as they have an okay senior team at present and are a very well run club from top to bottom, they have the ground and training facilities that would be definitely good enough for first division football. Two major barriers to any area looking to enter a team is 1) how expensive it is to enter the league and run a team in it, and 2) how much of a shambles the first division is. It is not attractive whatsoever for potential new entrants and fans. Any clubs who are considering entering will surely be keeping a close eye on Wexford and Cabinteely, I wonder how the whole Cabinteely entering the LoI is viewed from within the club so far, is it going according to plan or are they struggling (off the pitch)?

I would think that the national underage leagues could be what entices teams to enter, if anyone else does decide to take the plunge over the next few years. It would instantly put your club in a very strong position for attracting local underage players, but the problem is the expense that would be the senior team.

To answer the OPs question, if I didn't get my unlikely wish of a team from Kildare entering, I would think Kilkenny City would be a good bet.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

The FAI need to not take any money out of the league for a start. They should only be there to nurture it and put money into it where deemed necessary.

I think the only realistic way new teams can be added and the overall amount of people going to games increased is to tap into the north of the country. We're on an island with a relatively small population with two national leagues, it is literally the only way to 'add' a population with teams to our domestic league. (It's actually quite a unique thing that a (small) European league would have the ability to expand their catchment area by 30%)
I don't know how feasible it is but it would be well worth a try. We can say that the Setanta Cup was relatively not a success but on the other hand Derry have become one of the biggest core premier teams we have in the league and the league would be far worse without them. There's no reason why another few northern teams wouldn't be just as healthy for our league. Getting an extra 2 teams with over 1,000 average attendance would be very doable and would add so much, and another 2/3 could be put into the first division.

We don't need Linfield or whoever (unless they wanted to join of course) but a team or two from Belfast, one from Newry and some other places like Lurgan or Enniskillen are all more than viable possibilities.

With Northern Irish (and Welsh) teams now playing in the Scottish Challenge Cup it feels like it is something we should start exploring sooner rather than later.

pablomakaveli

Would any more teams from NI want to join the LOI though? The increased travel distances and fees to fatten Johns salary wouldnt be attractive to them plus the fact that they'd be lower down the pecking order than they would in the NI league.

Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo

pablomakaveli wrote: »

Would any more teams from NI want to join the LOI though? The increased travel distances and fees to fatten Johns salary wouldnt be attractive to them plus the fact that they'd be lower down the pecking order than they would in the NI league.

That's why I had to preface what I said with the FAI can't take money out of the league. Barrier to entry costs should be kept at an absolute minimum. The longest journey a team has to make already exists in the current set up, which would be Cork to Derry or Cobh to Finn Harps (I assume). Dundalk travelling to Newry or Rovers going to Belfast are much easier to do.

I think there's definitely an appetite for some teams in certain catchment areas to join the LOI. A Belfast and Newry team is certainly viable, and another couple would most certainly show an interest. We don't see Derry clambering to go back into the Northern Irish Premiership.

Alfa Quadrifoglio

Belfast Celtic would really be attractive in the LoI

Big Ears

A side from the North won't get clearance to play in the LOI.
Derry got special dispensation to do so, and I can't see how a side would get that in modern times.

I'd love to see a 2 leagues in 1 system. This would See a joined league between teams North & South competing for an All-Ireland Championships. In order to meet FIFA/UEFA requirements of having a national league to have a national team, results against fellow ROI sides would count towards a separate table, to determine the LOI champion. Meanwhile the IL sides would have results against each other determine the Northern Irish champions and what team would represent them in the Champions League.
IMO a joined league like this would generate more interest, and therefore more money and probably be able to attract a higher calibre of player.
It would likely pool high quality players towards a smaller number of clubs, creating a higher standard at the top level.
But anyway, that's all pie in the sky these days and not going to happen.


Anyway, getting back to the issue at hand, I think it's vital to fix the football ladder in Ireland, before more teams consider entering the LOI First Division. As mentioned the likes of Kildare County from a population size, catchment area and distance to the capital really shouldn't be failing.....and yet it did. Now there's plenty of factors for their lack of success, but what it does tell us is population isn't enough for a team to enter, there's much more required.

Personally I'd like to see the Intermediate League system Fixed.
At the moment there is no Connacht League, the Munster Senior League is solely represented by Cork clubs (despite there being extremely strong Junior clubs all over Munster), the Ulster Senior League is solely represented by Donegal sides)
So only the Leinster Senior League is operating ideally, and tbh having the Dublin AUL outside of the ladder leading to the Intermediate section of the LSL probably is a flaw.

So perhaps something like:
1. LOI Premier Division
2. LOI First Division
Then Regional Intermediate Leagues
3.Connact/Ulster Senior League
3. Munster Senior League (top teams all over Munster not just Cork)
3. Leinster Senior League (Non Dublin only)
3. Dublin Senior League

Let each of these have both a Premier Division (Tier 3), and a First Division (Tier 4), Below that have the start of Junior Football in a smaller region eg. West Munster Football League (Tier 5) and East Munster Football League (Tier 5), and then below that into the current Junior Leagues, eg. Limerick District League Premier Division (Tier 6).
That way we've a natural way for teams to progress is level, other than expecting Junior clubs to step right up into Senior football and playing nationally. There would be a more gradual increase in costs for teams moving up in levels aswell, reducing the likelihood of a team overestimating their income or underestimating their costs.

The development of the Underage National Leagues is a real positive step, and it is likely clubs that are involved in that but not currently in the LOI will be the next teams to make the step up. What teams the FAI allow to compete in the U13 & U15 leagues will be very interesting. There are a few sides competing at U17 that aren't there at U19 (Kerry, Cavan-Monaghan, Salthill Devon & Mervue), also note Galway don't enter at U17 leaving the 2 other Galway teams instead.
But I know not all teams that applied to enter the U17 league were allowed to do so, even with a reasonable standing. Nenagh AFC for example recently won the FAI Youths Cup, producing teams to very high levels across age groups and have excellent facilities, yet were declined for the league. Likely due to their proximity to Limerick and a desire to have players in the North Tipp region go there.

Anyway, I haven't really answered the question at hand, but imo no team should probably consider joining the LOI in its current set up.

Ferris_Bueller

Big Ears wrote: »

Anyway, getting back to the issue at hand, I think it's vital to fix the football ladder in Ireland, before more teams consider entering the LOI First Division. As mentioned the likes of Kildare County from a population size, catchment area and distance to the capital really shouldn't be failing.....and yet it did. Now there's plenty of factors for their lack of success, but what it does tell us is population isn't enough for a team to enter, there's much more required.

Personally I'd like to see the Intermediate League system Fixed.
At the moment there is no Connacht League, the Munster Senior League is solely represented by Cork clubs (despite there being extremely strong Junior clubs all over Munster), the Ulster Senior League is solely represented by Donegal sides)
So only the Leinster Senior League is operating ideally, and tbh having the Dublin AUL outside of the ladder leading to the Intermediate section of the LSL probably is a flaw.

So perhaps something like:
1. LOI Premier Division
2. LOI First Division
Then Regional Intermediate Leagues
3.Connact/Ulster Senior League
3. Munster Senior League (top teams all over Munster not just Cork)
3. Leinster Senior League (Non Dublin only)
3. Dublin Senior League

Let each of these have both a Premier Division (Tier 3), and a First Division (Tier 4), Below that have the start of Junior Football in a smaller region eg. West Munster Football League (Tier 5) and East Munster Football League (Tier 5), and then below that into the current Junior Leagues, eg. Limerick District League Premier Division (Tier 6).
That way we've a natural way for teams to progress is level, other than expecting Junior clubs to step right up into Senior football and playing nationally. There would be a more gradual increase in costs for teams moving up in levels aswell, reducing the likelihood of a team overestimating their income or underestimating their costs.

The development of the Underage National Leagues is a real positive step, and it is likely clubs that are involved in that but not currently in the LOI will be the next teams to make the step up. What teams the FAI allow to compete in the U13 & U15 leagues will be very interesting. There are a few sides competing at U17 that aren't there at U19 (Kerry, Cavan-Monaghan, Salthill Devon & Mervue), also note Galway don't enter at U17 leaving the 2 other Galway teams instead.
But I know not all teams that applied to enter the U17 league were allowed to do so, even with a reasonable standing. Nenagh AFC for example recently won the FAI Youths Cup, producing teams to very high levels across age groups and have excellent facilities, yet were declined for the league. Likely due to their proximity to Limerick and a desire to have players in the North Tipp region go there.

Anyway, I haven't really answered the question at hand, but imo no team should probably consider joining the LOI in its current set up.

I agree that this is the dream scenario, to have a proper pyramid structure in place where any club could potentially climb to the top. But I cannot see it happening with the way football is run in this country, it would require too much restructuring and there are way too many politics in Irish football, organisations who deliberately will not cooperate with one another. As you said, the underage national leagues are a step in the right direction and IMO, they are one of the only hopes for attracting some of the junior clubs over to the League of Ireland side.

I can't see any radical changes being made to the LoI within the next few years except for possibly reducing the Premier to 10 teams.

eagle eye

Kildare or Newbridge would probably be the place that a team could be set up and if it was run right it would be successful. There is a huge population between those two towns and they are only three miles apart.

The other larger areas where there are not teams include Tralee and Ennis along with Carlow and Navan.

I notice the op has Athlone Town down as both a Westmeath and Roscommon team. Longford is as close as Athlone to Roscommon Town but both sides play their football in the province of Leinster and as a result would not be supported by Roscommon people. Boyle which would be the second most populated town is nearer to Sligo than Athlone or Longford.

Ferris_Bueller

eagle eye wrote: »

Kildare or Newbridge would probably be the place that a team could be set up and if it was run right it would be successful. There is a huge population between those two towns and they are only three miles apart.

On paper you would definitely think that Newbridge would be capable of having a League of Ireland team, Co. Kildare has a population of almost 250,000, Newbridge and Naas both have over 20,000 living in them and Kildare Town around 10,000. Kildare and Naas would be a 10-15 minute drive from Newbridge max, so there is probably 60,000 people within a 15 minute drive from Newbridge when you factor in other surrounding areas. Station Road in Newbridge is also a nice little ground with a club house, bar, astroturf pitches and seating for close to 1,000 people. It's also walking distance from the town and on top of the train station which you would think would make it easy to access for fans both home and away.

But as we have seen with Kildare County it just didn't work for some reason. They only lasted 7 years, the first 3 or 4 were relatively successful and crowds came through the gates but once they languished towards the lower half of the first division table the crowds stopped coming and the club went beyond repair.

Kildare would be very much a gaelic football town, even now when the Kildare team aren't doing well, but soccer would be the second most popular sport and there are some good clubs around the county, you would think that there would be enough interest to sustain a team in the league.

For some reason Kildare County didn't seem to attract many fans from Naas or the north of the county (Maynooth, Celbridge, Leixlip), maybe this is due to the large amount of dubs living in those areas that they couldn't associate with Kildare County.

I was only a teenager at the time, but it's hard to know what exactly went wrong with the club. According to wikipedia, the club was one of few who made a profit in the 2005 season but it all went downhill from there. My guess is that the clubs first few seasons were budgeted on the presumption they would get promoted, but when they missed out on promotion a few seasons in a row this left the club in a bad financial position. I suppose this backs up what Wexford & Cabinteely are doing by being amateur sides and not paying their players.

It's sad thinking back on it all really, there were some great days following the club and some players who's memories will live on forever (Philly Gorman, Shay Zellor, Barry O'Connor). Since they disbanded I've tried to keep an interest in the LoI but it has never been the same really, as much as I've tried to go to a few Shamrock Rovers games it's not the same when you can't make that connection with a team.

I would say the only hope this area would have of seeing a team in the league of Ireland again would be if Newbridge Town decided to enter the league. It would appear that they have all the boxes ticked in terms of what it would take, and they have an impressive underage set up which they are taking quite seriously. Maybe the national underage league could entice them some day but I'd say they are still quite a while off that yet.

johnnyryan89

niallo27 wrote: »

Love a team in clare and I think we could get a few thousand every week in ennis. Big immigrant town and a big local interest as well.

I'd love for each county of Munster to have a team so gives more locally placed teams for Limerick and even Cork but you'd have more chance of getting a team set up in Nenagh than Ennis and both places are equal distance just outside Limerick.

You've already got people travelling into Limerick every week for matches and supporters group from Clare. The best young players in Clare either travel into Limerick or up to Galway.

And if Limerick are only getting on average 1,200 to 1,500 people to the Markets Field what makes you think Ennis will attract a few thousand every week?

Technique

Omackeral wrote: »

Derry - Derry City Fanad United played in A Championship

Omackeral

Technique wrote: »

Fixed now

Captain Havoc

I think Kildare and Kilkenny had their chances, even though I'd like a Kilkenny team.

bobbysands81

I think the bookies 'Sean Graham' still 'own' Belfast Celtic.

I'm surprised there's never been an attempt to bring thrm back.

If ever there was a 'franchise' based league playing in an Atlantic League or similar then they'd start off with incredible support with that name.