NTA Fare Determinations for 2017

mydiscworld

The 2016 fares came out on Oct 30th last year but no sign yet of the 2017 determinations...

devnull

They have been held up due to events.

Jamie2k9

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/no-fare-increase-for-75-of-public-transport-users-in-2017/

No fare increase for 75% of public transport users in 2017

03/11/16
Overall fare yield to increase by less than 1%

The National Transport Authority today published its Fares Determination reports for 2017 – the annual decisions on fares to be charged by the contracted public transport operators in Ireland – Dublin Bus, Iarnród Éireann, Bus Éireann and Luas (Transport Infrastructure Ireland).

Key points:

* No fare increase for three out of four passengers:

Three out of four passengers on the estimated 230 million public transport journeys, will see no fare increase, or will see a fare reduction in 2017.

* Increase of fare yield of less than 1%:

Increase in revenue yield to the transport providers arising from these fare changes will be less than 1% in 2017.

* Rail fare reductions:

50% Rail fare reductions for commuters in Sallins/Naas station, and Kilcock station

*Leap Card best value:

Fares paid by Leap Card continue to represent best value for money for passengers.

Operators are permitted to implement these fares changes from December 1st 2016. Fares for the year ahead are set with the aim of maintaining customer support and passenger numbers while ensuring financial stability for the operators.

In addition, the Authority has used the fares determination process over a number of years to simplify fares structures, and today we see the continuation of that process. It also uses the process to encourage more people to use Leap card to pay for their journeys by delivering a wide differential between Leap and cash fares of at least 20%.

This year’s fare determination has taken the opportunity to adjust fares to move closer to achieving the Authorities fares policy such as discount of approximately 30% for students, and 50% for children. It is also the view of the Authority that annual fares should be approximately equivalent to ten times a monthly fare.

Distance-based fare pricing is also brought a step further, particularly in the Iarnród Eireann Dublin Short Hop Zone (SHZ) in the Dublin area. SHZ fares for a number of trips has been adjusted, mostly downwards with a result that passengers will charged a fare that reflects the distance they travel. This represents the final step in the restructuring process in the Dublin SHZ.

Perhaps the most significant adjustment is the relocation of the both Sallins/Naas station, and Kilcock station, from the intercity zone into the Dublin SHZ resulting in significant savings for commuters.

For example, an adult single journey from Heuston station to Sallins/Naas station which currently costs €8.70 will be just €4.60 cash or €3.56 Leap. This is a saving of at least €4.10 or almost 50% on the cost of an adult single ticket.

Some other anomalies have been removed. This will result in the fares for 226 SHZ journeys being reduced by 16-18%, and 36 being increased by 16-18%. Many more passengers will see fare reductions than fare increases, as a result of these particular changes.

Anne Graham, CEO of the National Transport Authority said: “Today we are taking a significant step towards making our public transport fare structure simpler, more streamlined and more consistent.

“We believe that the prices people pay should accurately reflect the journeys they’re making.

“We’re also endeavoring to cut back on the wide array of different fare types, stages and products, so that cost of travel is easier to understand for the passenger.

“It’s also important for us to continue to incentivise people to choose Leap card to pay for their travel – by maintaining a substantial price differential between Leap fares and cash fares.

“Leap Card is now used to pay for some 3.5m public transport journeys in Ireland every week – representing about €4.3m in electronic transactions. These are cheaper for the operators to manage, and mean that the passenger benefits from shorter wait-times and better value fares.

“Leap will always be at least 20% cheaper than cash for a single journey”.

Van.Bosch

Disappointed they didn't merge some fares again on DB to simplify the structure.

devnull

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Disappointed they didn't merge some fares again on DB to simplify the structure.

Unfortunately whilst that was the intention previously for this year, it wasn't viable this time around due to the current environment for the companies from what I have heard.

Excellent news RE Irish rail simplification, some of the changes mean a large reduction in fares, especially those gone from Zone 3 to zone 1.

devnull

Also I note that the NTA have rejected any increase to Dublin Bus fares against the wishes of the company, Dublin Bus asked them for increases on single leap and cash fares but the NTA did not allow this.

Also Dublin Bus asked for a 10% rise in the Adult Monthly Iarnród Éireann Dublin Bus/Luas Add-on but only got 5%.

Generally it appears that the NTA have refused increases almost fully across the board and have kept fares lower than the operators would wish. Pretty much every single single fare increase across operators has been rejected.

devnull

http://www.thejournal.ie/public-transport-fare-increases-3060503-Nov2016/

I shake my head when I read links like that, the amount of doom mongering is incredible. The message that the body of the text tries to convey is not one which is consistant with the overall table it produces at the end of it.

A minority of Irish Rail fares go up and a much larger number go down, but we mention the 36 that go up but neglect to mention the many many more that go down. We won't mention in the article that two stations in the commuter belt are being cut by almost 50% in Dublin, but we'll mention fares that have small increases, because that is positive, and we just want to publish bad news.

Rashers72

Annual rail only SHZ ticket up 4.1%. That's a lot! But yes, those coming in from Sallins must be very happy.

devnull

The problem is the media in this country would see 90% of fares decreased and 10% increased an the article will go on about the outrage at 10% having to pay more and neglect to mention the 90% who had a decrease.

It's almost like the media get some kind of thrill or gratification from making people miserable.

Hollister11

This is the first time in 6 years, I haven't been faced with a fare increase.

murpho999

Statement not very clear. Will the Dublin SHZ be changed to reflect distance travelled.

I travel everyday from Bray to Dun Laoghaire but I have to get a monthly ticket for the whole zone, whilst if I paid just using leap the fare would reflect the shorter distance.

Is this being changed?

Infini

To be honest they're right not to increase fares they cant keep putting increases on passengers realistically since they're all pushed too. If costs need to be met they need to look at subvention rather than the regular joe since they just dont have any more to give without losing them to the car. That being said it would be nice to see more subvention increases at the same time as fare decreases in the future.

kc56

Taxsaver fares just published.

Note: Point-to-point fares are still to/from Heuston. No mention of PPT/GCD.

Spanish Eyes

Is the LEAP cap still the same for individual and all modes in Dublin?

Thanks.

devnull

Infini2 wrote: »

To be honest they're right not to increase fares they cant keep putting increases on passengers realistically since they're all pushed too. If costs need to be met they need to look at subvention rather than the regular joe since they just dont have any more to give without losing them to the car. That being said it would be nice to see more subvention increases at the same time as fare decreases in the future.

I agree, it's great that the cash fares have been frozen by the NTA despite Dublin Bus and other companies attempts to increase them which were flatly rejected.

Subvention to the companies is going up next year, see the PDFs

Grandeeod

Delighted to see Sallins/Naas included in the SHZ at long last. This had been requested for many many years and considering the growth of the area by 1998, it amounted to a fleecing of commuters considering it was a commuter station and the next inbound stop at Hazelhatch had a massively lower fare.

At long last the fares are no longer locked into where a DB route ran.

mydiscworld

That's gas how within an hour of me mentioning it the 2017 fares were published!

So no change to Dublin bus leap fares or annual tickets.

Regional Bus Eireann:
Leap 1.60 to 1.61!
Cash 2.10 to 2.20

Cork Annual
893 to 856

L1011

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Is the LEAP cap still the same for individual and all modes in Dublin?

Thanks.

All individual caps are increasing but all modes is not

Seeing that all modes is basically a method of getting the all-operator ticket on a weekly basis; I can see a very good argument made for offering taxsaver relief on Leap topups. Limiting it to large amounts - maybe €100 minimum topup - would reduce admin costs and it would provide a major encouragement to those with more variable working arrangements to use PT when possible.

I've started making more use of PT at weekends on the basis that, after a normal working week, its either free or damn near - usually at the Irish Rail cap and 4.50 (soon to be 3) off the all-modes. Partner would be similar. When paying for 2x return fares somewhere it was usually cheaper to drive but if its going to cost nothing or very little that changes entirely.

devnull

L1011 wrote: »

I can see a very good argument made for offering taxsaver relief on Leap topups. Limiting it to large amounts - maybe €100 minimum topup - would reduce admin costs.

That would be a nightmare administratively.

L1011

devnull wrote: »

That would be a nightmare administratively.

No reason in this day and age. Topups via a single website, PPS provided to register for it, require the personalised cards.

Revenue know how much tax has been paid for you once the employer return comes in. They could make estimates off the previous year before the first one comes in; or if they want to prevent any loss of revenue they could withhold until they get data and refund to the card.

bikeman1

I agree. Maybe something along the lines of a post year end claim on a Form 11 or 12 tax return similar to health expenses. You provide proof of your account if needed and it is linked to a personal leap card which can only be used by one taxpayer at a time.

It would greatly reduce the real cost of public transport.

n97 mini

Fares from Leixlip to city centre gone up 19% :eek:

"Elasticity" will mean movement to the cheaper 66/A/B.

Carawaystick

Apart from expanding tax relief being an increased subsidy for pt, there's the regressive nature of those earning more getting a larger discount of their pt than those earning less.

loyatemu

Annual rail SHZ - IE asked for 2.1%, NTA gave them 4.1% - gee thanks NTA!

in 2005 this ticket was €790, next year it will be €1520, that's a 92% increase in 12 years, a period of time in which there has been very little general inflation (+15% in the CPI)

devnull

There were many more that went the other way.

DB asked for many increases on single tickets and got none. Some fares asked for increases and got decreases.

Continuing with a theme of doom-mongering press, here's the best yet
https://lovindublin.com/dublin/the-new-public-transport-price-increases-heres-everything-you-need-to-know

Again the headline does not reflect what the article talks about, the majority of people are not getting an increase, some people are getting a big decrease, but again we cannot put that in the article because it doesn't make people feel bad.

NikoTopps

Is there anywhere to see what exactly has gone up? I'm seeing sites saying certain routes on X have gone up by +x% and certain routes on X have gone down by -x% but no where with an actual list.

Or will we just have to wait until 1/Dec to find out?

devnull

Click the various links here

https://www.nationaltransport.ie/news/no-fare-increase-for-75-of-public-transport-users-in-2017/

Mrs OBumble

NikoTopps wrote: »

Is there anywhere to see what exactly has gone up? I'm seeing sites saying certain routes on X have gone up by +x% and certain routes on X have gone down by -x% but no where with an actual list.

Or will we just have to wait until 1/Dec to find out?

I've done a reader friendly summary for Galway here: http://news.galwaytransport.info/2016/11/bus-train-fare-increases-december-2016-galway.html and I think Limerick figures are similar.

The no increases for 75% is not true outside of Dublin, due to the 1c increase in Leap adult fares

NikoTopps

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

I've done a reader friendly summary for Galway here: http://news.galwaytransport.info/2016/11/bus-train-fare-increases-december-2016-galway.html and I think Limerick figures are similar.

The no increases for 75% is not true outside of Dublin, due to the 1c increase in Leap adult fares

Very informative post, fair dues!

One of my friends said his ticket to/from Athlone has gone down by a good to around ~€21 but nowhere does there seem to be a definite list of exactly what route's gone up and what hasn't.

devnull

NikoTopps wrote: »

Very informative post, fair dues!

One of my friends said his ticket to/from Athlone has gone down by a good to around ~€21 but nowhere does there seem to be a definite list of exactly what route's gone up and what hasn't.

I posted the link above, there are PDF's linked to from that page for all of the operators with full details.

NikoTopps

devnull wrote: »

I posted the link above, there are PDF's linked to from that page for all of the operators with full details.

Yes, and as I said before it doesn't say exactly what's gone up. For example it says "1-day, 7-day, monthly and annual vary from -5.9% to + 2.8%" but this is useless because you have no idea if your route is one which has decreased in price or one that has increased and that's what I'm looking for.

Mrs OBumble

NikoTopps wrote: »

Yes, and as I said before it doesn't say exactly what's gone up. For example it says "1-day, 7-day, monthly and annual vary from -5.9% to + 2.8%" but this is useless because you have no idea if your route is one which has decreased in price or one that has increased and that's what I'm looking for.

In fairness, the information is in the documents linked to from the page that devnull suggested.

But it's hidden down the end, in tables in the Appendix. Very user-unfriendly, especially if you're just looking for simply information like "what will my fare be".

For the regional cities, at least, it's possible to do a far simper summary, which states the facts. TFI/NTA choose to do the PR-spin, rather than focus on facts - and you can't really blame them: public transport info isn't sexy, and struggles to get news-media time.

devnull

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

For the regional cities, at least, it's possible to do a far simper summary, which states the facts. TFI/NTA choose to do the PR-spin, rather than focus on facts - and you can't really blame them: public transport info isn't sexy, and struggles to get news-media time.

You can hardly blame the NTA for doing that when we have a media that love provoking a sense of outrage who would happily report on the 1% of people who had a rise and ignore the 99% of people who had a decrease if that was the case.

The media reaction to the fares determination was:
This is how much more you have to pay this year in the latest round of hikes with all companies seeing a rise. Here are the 35 stations that are moving into more expensive zones and these tickets are all going up by a lot, these tickets are going up a huge amount, hard pressed commuters are paying more thanks to the government sanctioned increases.

The fact that 75% of public transport journeys would not see a rise, two Dublin Commuter towns would see a massive saving and over 200 rail journeys were moved into cheaper zones, cash and leap fares on Dublin Bus were untouched and the NTA refused to sanction any increase on these services despite DB lobbying, doesn't make good news.

So instead they just make sure they publish the bad news and neglect to mention the better news. A proper article on the fares determination would be balanced and mention both the winners and the losers, but I haven't seen any. What grinds my gears is that the press are happy enough to dig up a fuss about what quite frankly, isn't a big deal, but when it comes to providing proper infrastructure for transport in this country they are nowhere to be seen.

NikoTopps

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

In fairness, the information is in the documents linked to from the page that devnull suggested.

But it's hidden down the end, in tables in the Appendix. Very user-unfriendly, especially if you're just looking for simply information like "what will my fare be".

For the regional cities, at least, it's possible to do a far simper summary, which states the facts. TFI/NTA choose to do the PR-spin, rather than focus on facts - and you can't really blame them: public transport info isn't sexy, and struggles to get news-media time.

Maybe it's my lack of sleep but I honestly can't see it.

I suppose I'll find out if it's + or - for me by 1/Dec!

Mrs OBumble

NikoTopps wrote: »

Maybe it's my lack of sleep but I honestly can't see it.

I suppose I'll find out if it's + or - for me by 1/Dec!

What service do you use? I don't know the big D so well, could be interesting to see if I can inured it out for you.

NikoTopps

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

What service do you use? I don't know the big D so well, could be interesting to see if I can inured it out for you.

I live in Dublin so it's just the Luas/Bus Átha Cliath I use but I'm just asking out of curiosity for a friend. He uses the Route 4 Bus Éireann from Waterford to Dub city centre.

devnull

Bus Eireann Route 4 Wexford to Dublin is a commercial route so the fare is not regulated by the NTA and is an unregulated fare so does not form part of this determination.

NikoTopps

devnull wrote: »

Bus Eireann Route 4 Wexford to Dublin is a commercial route so the fare is not regulated by the NTA and is an unregulated fare so does not form part of this determination.

Ah, that'd explain why it wasn't there alright, silly me:rolleyes:

So because it's run under the ExpressWay brand it's commercial?

n97 mini

Doesn't fill me with confidence that the NTA can't do maths. Some fares going up by "16-18%". Quite a few are going from 2.46 to 2.93, which is in fact 19.1%

NikoTopps

NikoTopps wrote: »

I live in Dublin so it's just the Luas/Bus Átha Cliath I use but I'm just asking out of curiosity for a friend. He uses the Route 4 Bus Éireann from Waterford to Dub city centre.

Sorry to bump an old thread but I was talking to my friend and he mentioned that his ticket price gone up by 50c which is nothing but still an increase is an increase !