The gun shop Channel 4

gunny123

Just seen a trailer for a programme called "The gun shop" on channel 4 on Thursday at 9.00 pm. Seeing as C4 is the televison equivalent of the Guardian newspaper, i reckon it will be biased towards the "All guns are bad m'kay" stance. Looks an amazing shop though.

Cass

Didn't get the name of the shop?

gunny123

No Cass, had a quick look on their website, just says a small gunshop in Michigan.

Luckysasha

I hope it doesn't have the same outcome for the owners as the shows on discovery Sons of Guns and American Guns. Making a TV series seemed to be their downfall

Cass

One was arrested and charged with multiple counts of paedophilia/rape, selling firearms without a license and having firearms he shouldn't have.

The other was charged with illegal sales (he had his license revoked in 2012 but kept on selling) and tax fraud.

Cannot really blame Discovery Channel for that.

tac foley

I've just watched a sneak preview of the programme on BBC morning TV, in which the programme producer and his assistant were yakking. Apart from the apparent air of general bewilderment that seems to surround folks these days when faced with circumstances outside their usual purview, they seemed to be fairly onside with the answers they gave to the BBC presenters. The clips showed mostly youngsters being taught how to shoot a handgun of one kind or another, as well as a few adults, including the compulsory ethnic minority in the form of a VERY tasty young lady.

They made the point that upcoming presidential elections - especially this one - were having a very positive impact on the public gun-buying figures, and that people who may not have thought about gun ownership before were coming out of the woodwork and spending real amounts of money. A friend of mine in NC has actually set aside $10K to spend on guns no matter who gets in. They also make the point that recent events seemed to be making people think more about personal defence, and mentioned that there were now a number of states in which open carry was permitted. There have always been states in which this is the case, BTW. They also mentioned the training and certification that had to take place before a citizen could avail themselves of this civil liberty. No direct mention was made of any criminal activities involving firearms.

We'll have to see the whole programme to get a balanced view - and hope that the producers succeeded in doing just that, unlike the presenter of a recent programme in UK, in which Callum, who makes the very useful Englishshooter movies on Youtube, took a London-based Asian reporter, who was plainly VERY uneasy around any form of firearm and admitted to knowing zero about them, into a busy gun store to see for himself the hows and whys of gun ownership in UK. The poor guy's ignorance was profound and moving, to say the least - maybe some of you saw it?

I guess that all of us who can actually get the programme will be watching with bated breath, wondering what the non-shooting element of the population will end up getting out of it.

All I'd say to anybody not familiar with the way that things are done over there is that other countries have other fashions.

tac

PS - this is my local gunstore in Eugene OR. What you see is actually half of it - Steve recently bought the next-door premises as well. Same size, with room for a nice big coffee café while you make your mind up. https://www.yelp.com/biz/mazama-sporting-goods-eugene-3

gunny123

Luckysasha wrote: »

I hope it doesn't have the same outcome for the owners as the shows on discovery Sons of Guns and American Guns. Making a TV series seemed to be their downfall

I don't think its going to be that sort of show, its more a fly on the wall documentary, where they observe the people coming and going, see what they are buying and why.

On a side note, anyone else watching any of the uk news reports of the US election, guns invariably get mentioned. On one last night the reporter was talking to three coal miners (billary has already said coal mines are history if she gets in). The reporter asked the three lads who they are voting for, they all said trump, the reporter then asked the first lad why trump, and he said "because of guns and my job". The reporter was visably shocked.

tac foley

It is quite simple, IF you take the simplistic POV.

Mr Trump supports the American Constitution, including ALL the Amendments.

Mrs Clinton does not.

In the American psyche there is no such thing as a 'little' gun control. THE word to remember here is 'control'. It's rather like being a 'little' dead.

tac

Grizzly 45

Best political cartoon on the subject...
http://www.michaelpramirez.com/roulette.html

Luckysasha

gunny123 wrote: »

I don't think its going to be that sort of show, its more a fly on the wall documentary, where they observe the people coming and going, see what they are buying and why.

should be worth a watch so. God I hope RTÉ don't decide to make a version of this show, could you imagine the balls they would make of it. Just like every other uk format that try and copy

gunny123

tac foley wrote: »

It is quite simple, IF you take the simplistic POV.

Mr Trump supports the American Constitution, including ALL the Amendments.

Mrs Clinton does not.

In the American psyche there is no such thing as a 'little' gun control. THE word to remember here is 'control'. It's rather like being a 'little' dead.

tac

Another report on cnn i think it was, from a gun shop, wall full of pistols on display, and two lads, one from the republican party, and the other the shop owner. He has a special election offer on, an Ar15, a crate of 1,000 rounds and a framed picture of hillary, he was thanking her for being the best sales person he has ever had. I was on one of the american shooting forums last night, one member was saying it took him over an hour to elbow his way to the counter to buy a pistol, the shop was so busy.

gunny123

Luckysasha wrote: »

gunny123 wrote: »

I don't think its going to be that sort of show, its more a fly on the wall documentary, where they observe the people coming and going, see what they are buying and why.

should be worth a watch so. God I hope RTÉ don't decide to make a version of this show, could you imagine the balls they would make of it. Just like every other uk format that try and copy

Never forget that rte is the governments mouthpiece. When the economic meltdown was happening here, they should have been asking biffo, "no bank account" ahern, and "blasphemy" ahern what the hell was going on, but of course they wouldn't rock the boat like that.

Luckysasha

Exactly the reason I hope RTÉ don't go near the subject of Irish gun laws. It's bad enough everytime rural crime is mentioned it is accompanied by a picture of that dim wit Healy-Rae holding his shotgun swearing to defend his property. Could you imagine the uproar they would cause by their one sided biased reporting. As someone said to me before "the gun laws in this country are ticking along nicely until someone ruins it for everyone else"

gunny123

Bump, don't forget this is on tonight. I'm not expecting much from the uk msm, so am practising my eye rolling in the mirror.

tac foley

gunny123 wrote: »

Bump, don't forget this is on tonight. I'm not expecting much from the uk msm, so am practising my eye rolling in the mirror.

What's an 'MSM'?

tac

gunny123

tac foley wrote: »

What's an 'MSM'?

tac

The mainstream media, usually owned by a meglomaniac.

davycc

Only 10 minutes in and it's been balanced so far showing things from the customers perspective
A lady buying a glock for self defense after being threatened by an armed male driver with road rage and a bullying attitude

harr

Enjoying this...just goes to show the fear some people have that they feel the need to walk around carrying a gun..I see why they would want to carry. I certainly would probably carry if given the chance...the woman who was threatened in the road rage incident looks very fearful and the man who pulled gun on her was legally allowed carry a weapon...so shows as well having easy access to a handgun is not always the best thing for some people.

gunny123

They are being responsible for their own personal security. Over here we live under the delusion that if something bad happens to us, a guard will suddenly appear and stop it. When in reality this very rarely happens. The police come along long after the incident happens and investigates. You will be in the hospital or worse. I know this personally.

tac foley

A good programme, if only from one perspective. The people in it were all real people who felt the need to have a gun, mostly for their own protection - I didn't see a single leisure/fun shooter there, which shows an imbalance in the bias of the programme, IMO.

Where were the hunters? The target rifle shooters? The reloaders?

Glock USA must be rubbing their hands with glee.

tac

gunny123

tac foley wrote: »

A good programme, if only from one perspective. The people in it were all real people who felt the need to have a gun, mostly for their own protection - I didn't see a single leisure/fun shooter there, which shows an imbalance in the bias of the programme, IMO.

Where were the hunters? The target rifle shooters? The reloaders?

Glock USA must be rubbing their hands with glee.

tac

Gaston glock must be a trillionaire.

Kat1170

Somebody might want to explain the obvious drawback of a 'Circular Firing Squad' to that guy :rolleyes::rolleyes:

gunny123

It was a figure of speech i think, if someone did trying to rob the place (foolish) there would be bullets flying at him from all directions.

BattleCorp

It really showed the fear that is present in American society.

I thought it was sad when the mother with the two young boys was explaining to one of the kids what to do if there was an intruder and what to do if 'Mommy went down' etc. Imagine having to put that burden and worry on a 10 - 12 year old.

tac foley

gunny123 wrote: »

It was a figure of speech i think, if someone did trying to rob the place (foolish) there would be bullets flying at him from all directions.

It HAS been tried, a few years back.

Two goons invaded the local gunstore while there was a Smith & Wesson 'show-and-tell' session ongoing with the local police department and SWAT team. The late gunmen seemed somehow not to have noticed the half-dozen police vehicles and SWAT Humvee parked outside the store range.

Needless to say, when the smoke cleared after nigh-on two hundred shots fired, it was hard to imagine what they were, let alone who they were.

You can't fix stupid.

tac

tac foley

gunny123 wrote: »

They are being responsible for their own personal security. Over here we live under the delusion that if something bad happens to us, a guard will suddenly appear and stop it. When in reality this very rarely happens. The police come along long after the incident happens and investigates. You will be in the hospital or worse. I know this personally.

Two notable quotes -

1. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.

2. I carry a gun because I can't carry a policeman.

Sorry to hear of your bad experience.

tac

Del2005

harr wrote: »

Enjoying this...just goes to show the fear some people have that they feel the need to walk around carrying a gun..I see why they would want to carry. I certainly would probably carry if given the chance...the woman who was threatened in the road rage incident looks very fearful and the man who pulled gun on her was legally allowed carry a weapon...so shows as well having easy access to a handgun is not always the best thing for some people.

As I was watching her I couldn't help but think that if it happens again instead of a road rage incident there would be a shooting incident. I agree with the people buying for home defence but a gun for road rage!

BattleCorp

Del2005 wrote: »

As I was watching her I couldn't help but think that if it happens again instead of a road rage incident there would be a shooting incident. I agree with the people buying for home defence but a gun for road rage!

I suppose her thinking was that if he had fired at her, she wouldn't have been able to defend herself if she didn't have a gun.

Although if she did defend herself, I think she would be in trouble as I believe it's against the law to have a loaded gun in your car in the State of Michigan.

Grizzly 45

BattleCorp wrote: »

It really showed the fear that is present in American society.

I thought it was sad when the mother with the two young boys was explaining to one of the kids what to do if there was an intruder and what to do if 'Mommy went down' etc. Imagine having to put that burden and worry on a 10 - 12 year old.

Id be kind of worried too if Mommy went down on an intruder...

gunny123

I was a bit disappointed as all i seen in the shop was ar15's and plastic pistols. Not a double barrel or bolt action in sight. I was amazed at how low some of the prices were though, but they might have been used guns i suppose.

BattleCorp

gunny123 wrote: »

I was a bit disappointed as all i seen in the shop was ar15's and plastic pistols. Not a double barrel or bolt action in sight. I was amazed at how low some of the prices were though, but they might have been used guns i suppose.

It seemed like a shop that pretty much only catered for the self defence aspect of shooting. There wasn't one target shooter or hunter in the programme. Maybe the programme was edited to only show the people who wanted guns for self defence.

tac foley

BattleCorp wrote: »

I suppose her thinking was that if he had fired at her, she wouldn't have been able to defend herself if she didn't have a gun.

Although if she did defend herself, I think she would be in trouble as I believe it's against the law to have a loaded gun in your car in the State of Michigan.

Not if it actually on your person - you being a CCW permit holder. Loose - in the glovebox or lying around - is a different matter most everywhere.

tac

civdef

BattleCorp wrote: »

It seemed like a shop that pretty much only catered for the self defence aspect of shooting. There wasn't one target shooter or hunter in the programme. Maybe the programme was edited to only show the people who wanted guns for self defence.

This seems to be the way the US firearms market has been going for at least the last decade or so. Compare a mainstream US shooting magazine today with one from 10+ years ago and you'll see a lot less hunting / target / clays content now. The shops also seem to stock a much higher proportion of "black rifles" and carry guns than any other sector of the market.

gunny123

civdef wrote: »

This seems to be the way the US firearms market has been going for at least the last decade or so. Compare a mainstream US shooting magazine today with one from 10+ years ago and you'll see a lot less hunting / target / clays content now. The shops also seem to stock a much higher proportion of "black rifles" and carry guns than any other sector of the market.

I noticed that myself, years ago if you bought guns and ammo, there would be great features on someone heading off to some spectacular wild place and shooting elk or bear etc. There would be reviews on classic guns, bolt action or lever action rifles. Now its just the plastic stuff, the right to bear arms, there is a boogey man behind every blade of grass waiting to kill you. Its paranoia imho.

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

I was a bit disappointed as all i seen in the shop was ar15's and plastic pistols. Not a double barrel or bolt action in sight. I was amazed at how low some of the prices were though, but they might have been used guns i suppose.

Thing is every man and his dog are now making black rifles,or are building themselves one in the basement from parts.In fact the AR15 design has now supplanted the lever action as the most pouplar and available rifle in America three years ago,so you can in theory pick up one for under 500 $.
But expect 500 dollar quality too.Millons of spare parts out there as well make this design whstever you want it to be,and virtually uncontrollable to gun bans...Guess why they were shown,they are of course black&scary looking.A double barrel doesnt look scary or a wood stocked hunting rifle isnt scary compared to a tactical bolt action sniper rifle.
All perspective of the attitude of who is behind the camera and who is watching this on their stupidifier.

Grizzly 45

gunny123 wrote: »

civdef wrote: »

This seems to be the way the US firearms market has been going for at least the last decade or so. Compare a mainstream US shooting magazine today with one from 10+ years ago and you'll see a lot less hunting / target / clays content now. The shops also seem to stock a much higher proportion of "black rifles" and carry guns than any other sector of the market.

I noticed that myself, years ago if you bought guns and ammo, there would be great features on someone heading off to some spectacular wild place and shooting elk or bear etc. There would be reviews on classic guns, bolt action or lever action rifles. Now its just the plastic stuff, the right to bear arms, there is a boogey man behind every blade of grass waiting to kill you. Its paranoia imho.

Well when you have a president and a presidential canditatewho is making it one of her election planks and a bunch of congress people and one of the political parties braying non stop about gun bans after every actually statiscally very rare, mass shooting and then seeing them enacting legislation in places like California,Michigan, Connetticut ,New york state,etc.It only fuels the paranoia for the average citizento go out and on black friday last year.To buy more guns that could re arm the entire 250 thousand strong United States Marine Corps and still have left overs for two divisions.In one day!!!You might wonder about justifiable paranoia.

As for mags that are still hunting orientated.Try Field&Stream,American Deer hunting,American hunter,Safari club international(If you can stomach all the trophy size boasting)Most if not all are online these days,so no worries if Easons doesn't have it in stock.

civdef

There has been some serious marketing muscle put into fueling the pervading sense of fear though I reckon. 10+ years ago if an American mag talked about a gun for the bedside locker, they'd say something along the line of get a 4" 38spl/357 and-or a pump.
Now it's a G19 / AR with extended mags, lasers, lights, rails on every surface, buffers, ACOGS, crateloads of ammo twenty spare mags and probably an obligatory operator beard.

They seem to have gone from marketing something to pick up if you heard a bump in the night downstairs, to the capacity to singlehandedly repel an infantry company for sustained periods of time - all in the hands of people who might barely fire an average of 50 rounds on a 25-50indoor range per year, and who don't actually live in Mosul.

It's got to the stage where I pretty much don't bother going into gunshops in the States anymore when I'm over there. The sense of fear/paranoia/bloodthirstyness (e.g. some of the defensive ammo ads) just doesn't feel right.

tac foley

Go West, Young Man! Out in the PNW I see no evidence of the paranoia that pervades the Eastern side of the country. Oregon has open carry, BTW. Might have something to do with it.

tac

Grizzly 45

A cessorise everything!!Applies in the US be it cars,guns or whatever.They have a gizmo for everything , practial or not.So its no surprise they buy all sorts of ninja gear that has been "tested by some alphabet soup organisation in Iraq or wherever and will repel hordes of zombies"We are all suspectible to advertising.

recipio

Bloody hell, just caught this on repeat. The level of fear in American society is amazing. I note the salesmen steered everyone to a 9 mm pistol. Apart from the recoil, which the women in particular struggled with, standard ball ammo will probably go through the walls in your average US home. I didn't see any reference to low powered calibres or expanding ammo. The last clip on his 'sales for the day ' ( about 12) says it all.

Grizzly 45

Were the women who struggeled with recoil from the 9mms,from the same place as the male journalist who fired an AR15 and got PTSD earlier this year???:D:D:D:D

gunny123

recipio wrote: »

Bloody hell, just caught this on repeat. The level of fear in American society is amazing. I note the salesmen steered everyone to a 9 mm pistol. Apart from the recoil, which the women in particular struggled with, standard ball ammo will probably go through the walls in your average US home. I didn't see any reference to low powered calibres or expanding ammo. The last clip on his 'sales for the day ' ( about 12) says it all.

My first pistol was a glock 17 in 9mm, i eventually would up with a 1911 in .45acp, and found the .45 far better to shoot. I find the 9mm a snappy little git, but with the .45 it was a slow push.