Card payments - minimum spend?

The Ayatolla

I go into a petrol station and the cost of my items is €7.50 - the shop assistant tells me I must spend €10 to use my contactless debit card or chip/pin.

I always wondered, is this "legal"?

Or can I say, "tough ****, I only have card"?

Or, do I have to throw in the pack of Wrigley's Extra and a bottle of Deep RiverRock?

Edups

The Ayatolla wrote: »

I go into a petrol station and the cost of my items is €7.50 - the shop assistant tells me I must spend €10 to use my contactless debit card or chip/pin.

I always wondered, is this "legal"?

Or can I say, "tough ****, I only have card"?

Or, do I have to throw in the pack of Wrigley's Extra and a bottle of Deep RiverRock?

I believe it's at the shops discretion

BeardySi

Shops don't have to accept cards. If they do they're free to have a minimum spend. Nothing is stopping you from walking away, I often have - it's a practice that I find rather irritating.

Del2005

Treadhead wrote: »

Shops don't have to accept cards. If they do they're free to have a minimum spend. Nothing is stopping you from walking away, I often have - it's a practice that I find rather irritating.

AFAIK they can't have a minimum spend on the machines according to their contracts, but the margins are so low that it costs them money for smaller transactions.

Joseph

So the only piece of info I have about this is (and I know it is not directly related to your question) if they are charging a fee for card use the maximum they can charge is the cost to them for the transaction.

L1011

Joseph wrote: »

So the only piece of info I have about this is (and I know it is not directly related to your question) if they are charging a fee for card use the maximum they can charge is the cost to them for the transaction.

Don't believe there is any legislation about this.

Most merchant agreements ban minimums but the banks have no interest in enforcing. The rates have been cut hugely by EU regulations recently and I've seen a direct reduction in shops with limits of surcharges since.

hdowney

Treadhead wrote: »

Shops don't have to accept cards. If they do they're free to have a minimum spend. Nothing is stopping you from walking away, I often have - it's a practice that I find rather irritating.

In most cases walking away is fine, but in the OPs example he has already pumped petrol into his tank.
I believe in these instances the shop should clearly state on each pump the minimum card transaction they allow. Otherwise they are basically scamming customers into spending more, knowing very well they CAN'T walk away.

snubbleste

hdowney wrote: »

In most cases walking away is fine, but in the OPs example he has already pumped petrol into his tank. ....

Where does it say that

clairewithani

L1011 wrote: »

Don't believe there is any legislation about this.

Most merchant agreements ban minimums but the banks have no interest in enforcing. The rates have been cut hugely by EU regulations recently and I've seen a direct reduction in shops with limits of surcharges since.

Well is charging for a lower amount ok. I had it happen twice (in the same shop admittedly) where I was asked to pay 20c on my purchase or a €10 minimum spend. I opted for the 20c because I hate having to buy things just to make up the €10.

hdowney

snubbleste wrote: »

Where does it say that

Fair point it doesn't explicitly (its early. Brain not working) but given that the location is a petrol station it is safe to assume that some customers will be pumping petrol then entering the shop to pay, just to be hit by the minimum spend.

Special Circumstances

clairewithani wrote: »

Well is charging for a lower amount ok. I had it happen twice (in the same shop admittedly) where I was asked to pay 20c on my purchase or a €10 minimum spend. I opted for the 20c because I hate having to buy things just to make up the €10.

Sounds like Spar's policy on contactless cards!

OldMrBrennan83

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LittleGarry

hdowney wrote: »

Fair point it doesn't explicitly (its early. Brain not working) but given that the location is a petrol station it is safe to assume that some customers will be pumping petrol then entering the shop to pay, just to be hit by the minimum spend.

Who buys €7.50 worth of petrol these days - wouldn't even fill a 5L petrol can?!

wyndham

LittleGarry wrote: »

Who buys €7.50 worth of petrol these days - wouldn't even fill a 5L petrol can?!

Mopeds/motorbikes/lawnmowers/petrol bombers

M94

My local centra wants to charge 20c for every card transaction under 10, it's the only shop I have seen that does that and I don't have much choice since it's 5 min from my house by walk.

testicles

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dudara

Off topic posts removed. Let's leave the AH comments in AH.

dudara

Fred Swanson

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Walter2016

The cost of lodging cash is similar to the new debit card charges so I just can't see the reason for the charge.

It does really annoy people and probably costs a lot more in lost business.

Edups

M94 wrote: »

My local centra wants to charge 20c for every card transaction under 10, it's the only shop I have seen that does that and I don't have much choice since it's 5 min from my house by walk.

I find this better than flat out refusing cards

Head Wreck

My local has a minimum spend of a tenner, PLUS a 50c charge for anything under 20euro.

I complained to the shop and the bank but nothing changed.

ibFoxer

I was given to understand that there was no minimum spend on a contactless transaction?

OldMrBrennan83

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BeardySi

I wouldn't go back full stop.

I wonder is this local shop perhaps a rural shop with no others nearby?

Skatedude

The banks charge a minimum charge per transaction and the shops will often lose money on sales if they are less then a tenner or so. but most stations have atm's so you can usually get cash

Head Wreck

Patww79 wrote:

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Treadhead wrote:

I wonder is this local shop perhaps a rural shop with no others nearby?

The nearst shop is about 6 miles away. They don't accept card payments at all so really we have no choice. Nearest ATM is 10 miles away

allthedoyles

Fred Swanson wrote: »

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Looking at the BOI website schedule of charges , they charge 1c per contactless transaction .

clairewithani

allthedoyles wrote: »

Looking at the BOI website schedule of charges , they charge 1c per contactless transaction .

1c to whom

Cardholder?
Retailer?
Both?

Edups

clairewithani wrote: »

1c to whom

Cardholder?
Retailer?
Both?

The cardholder. The retailer chargers are set by whoever manages their card machine.

Sleeper12

I am charged 25c for each transaction I receive from a debit card & 3% from a credit card. I can see why shops have a minimum spend.
I have the opposite problem. If I supply & fit a product for 800 euro I'm getting about 100 for the fitting part. It kills me that almost 25 euro comes out of the 100. It makes a huge difference to me if someone uses a credit rather than a debit card

BrokenArrows

The Ayatolla wrote: »

I go into a petrol station and the cost of my items is €7.50 - the shop assistant tells me I must spend €10 to use my contactless debit card or chip/pin.

I always wondered, is this "legal"?

Or can I say, "tough ****, I only have card"?

Or, do I have to throw in the pack of Wrigley's Extra and a bottle of Deep RiverRock?

Nothing wrong with this. I agree its annoying but the shop needs to make a profit.

Every time you use your card a % of the price gets paid to the credit card authorization company.

These companies also have two types of fee. One for secure businesses who spend time and money to make sure their CC transactions are secure and others who couldnt give a ****. The latter being more expensive and probably where the small petrol station or shops fall into.

They will probably pay something like 2% of 25cents per transaction.

So if you buy something for €1 and try paying with a card then the shop has just lost 25% of the price of that product.

allthedoyles

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I am charged 25c for each transaction I receive from a debit card & 3% from a credit card. I can see why shops have a minimum spend.
I have the opposite problem. If I supply & fit a product for 800 euro I'm getting about 100 for the fitting part. It kills me that almost 25 euro comes out of the 100. It makes a huge difference to me if someone uses a credit rather than a debit card

Well you pay double what we the cardholder pay , because in our case it is capped at 2% of transaction value or maximum 11.43e

clairewithani

Ok. It seems no matter what, banks are bastards

L1011

clairewithani wrote: »

Ok. It seems no matter what, banks are bastards

As before, this isn't After Hours.

clairewithani

L1011 wrote: »

As before, this isn't After Hours.

Apologies

BeardySi

Head Wreck wrote: »

The nearst shop is about 6 miles away. They don't accept card payments at all so really we have no choice. Nearest ATM is 10 miles away

Quelle suprise... He knows folk have nowhere else to go so will cheerfully rip them off.

Walter2016

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I am charged 25c for each transaction I receive from a debit card & 3% from a credit card. I can see why shops have a minimum spend.
I have the opposite problem. If I supply & fit a product for 800 euro I'm getting about 100 for the fitting part. It kills me that almost 25 euro comes out of the 100. It makes a huge difference to me if someone uses a credit rather than a debit card

You need to change your merchant processor.

Payment Plus / Barclaycard merchant services will charge you less than 1% for standard credit cards and less than 0.7% for debit cards. And even lower rates if you have reasonable volume.

Elavon are not much higher.

3% is just a ridiculous rate and no retailer should be paying that much.

Charles Babbage

Treadhead wrote: »

Quelle suprise... He knows folk have nowhere else to go so will cheerfully rip them off.

What evidence is there is ripping anyone off? They merely expect payment in legal tender.

Edups

Charles Babbage wrote: »

What evidence is there is ripping anyone off? They merely expect payment in legal tender.

If you have a card terminal and you charge 50c for every transaction on top of the original price of the goods, you are ripping people off. In a rural area with no bank machines what are people supposed to do?

Charles Babbage

Edups wrote: »

If you have a card terminal and you charge 50c for every transaction on top of the original price of the goods, you are ripping people off.

If you subsidise people paying for small amounts with cards and put the prices up for everyone else, then you are ripping people off.

In a rural area with no bank machines what are people supposed to do?

Most people in rural areas pass a bank machine once a week or so in the course of their normal travels.

M94

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Edups wrote: »

If you have a card terminal and you charge 50c for every transaction on top of the original price of the goods, you are ripping people off.

If you subsidise people paying for small amounts with cards and put the prices up for everyone else, then you are ripping people off.

In a rural area with no bank machines what are people supposed to do?

Most people in rural areas pass a bank machine once a week or so in the course of their normal travels.

Charles Babbage wrote: »

Edups wrote: »

If you have a card terminal and you charge 50c for every transaction on top of the original price of the goods, you are ripping people off.

If you subsidise people paying for small amounts with cards and put the prices up for everyone else, then you are ripping people off.

In a rural area with no bank machines what are people supposed to do?

Most people in rural areas pass a bank machine once a week or so in the course of their normal travels.

Much more convenient to carry a card instead of cash all the time. Don't know about everyone else but I don't carry my wallet with me all the time I just have my phone, card and my keys in the pocket if I carry cash it is much easier to lose it.

Edups

M94 wrote: »

Much more convenient to carry a card instead of cash all the time. Don't know about everyone else but I don't carry my wallet with me all the time I just have my phone, card and my keys in the pocket if I carry cash it is much easier to lose it.

+1

Just this weekend I lost 20 euro, that's gone now for good, I lose my card I cancel it but I didn't lose the 20. In this day and age there's no excuse for card limits.

Xcom2

Edups wrote: »

+1

Just this weekend I lost 20 euro, that's gone now for good, I lose my card I cancel it but I didn't lose the 20. In this day and age there's no excuse for card limits.

Perhaps take more care of your money get a wallet and put you cash and cards in it and maybe try minding it.

When you loose your card and get another the costs of that replacement are passed on to all the other cardholders.

Card limits are very carefully decided(its based on how much they think you can pay back and in what period). Try paying off your full bill every month for six months and see if it increases.

:-)

Books4you

I work in a small shop. We used to have a minimum spend of €10 or if it's under a .20c charge. With about 8 months now though we have no minimum and it makes my life so much easier!! Just remember that not all people that work there set the rules so please don't eat the head off of us! It is all to do with how much the retailer gets charged if you come in and want to put €1 on your card. It's just not feasible.

Saying that my local centra still has a €5 minimum spend and they have way, way more business than we do so not sure why that is. You would think they would have none as they could surely get a better deal on a terminal than a small independent shop.

Edups

Xcom2 wrote: »

Perhaps take more care of your money get a wallet and put you cash and cards in it and maybe try minding it.

When you loose your card and get another the costs of that replacement are passed on to all the other cardholders.

Card limits are very carefully decided(its based on how much they think you can pay back and in what period). Try paying off your full bill every month for six months and see if it increases.

:-)

I was referring to shops setting limits, I don't own a credit card. And perhaps you don't try and assume how my money is stored?

Books4you

I do think though you should always have some cash on you. Even if it's a €10 note thats is your phone case or whatever. Can never understand no cash at all on people. Just have it in case. It really is not that hard and there is no excuse not to.

Saying i lost €20 last week is not an excuse, it just means you a careless person and need to learn to manage your money!

Edups

Books4you wrote: »

I do think though you should always have some cash on you. Even if it's a €10 note thats is your phone case or whatever. Can never understand no cash at all on people. Just have it in case. It really is not that hard and there is no excuse not to.

Saying i lost €20 last week is not an excuse, it just means you a careless person and need to learn to manage your money!

I don't need any excuse? I don't carry cash and I don't WANT to carry it. I'll use my debit card for whatever I want to buy, I live within a 30 second walk of a Dunnes Stores and a 15 minutes walk from Aldi and Lidl, of them none have minimum card limits. I don't even know why I'm bothering to say any of this, it's really nothing to do with anyone what I use to pay.

M94

Books4you wrote: »

I do think though you should always have some cash on you. Even if it's a 10 note thats is your phone case or whatever. Can never understand no cash at all on people. Just have it in case. It really is not that hard and there is no excuse not to.

Saying i lost 20 last week is not an excuse, it just means you a careless person and need to learn to manage your money!

If I want to pay with my card then the shop should be able to provide that service without a fee if not I will take my shopping somewhere else that accepts cards and does not punish you for using them. And what do you mean careless you never lost anything in your life ever?

Joseph

Cards and the like are the present and future of payments. Cash has lots of downsides and is decreasing in use. Paying for goods/services is a cost of business that should be borne by the business just like lighting, staff etc.

The Ayatolla

Joseph wrote: »

Cards and the like are the present and future of payments. Cash has lots of downsides and is decreasing in use. Paying for goods/services is a cost of business that should be bourne by the business just like lighting, staff etc.

Spot on. It's small-time thinking from entrepreneurs to discourage use of cards, and especially contactless.

Half of them probably don't realise the time it saves putting 10 cent coins into money bags and bringing them to a bank. :rolleyes:

Special Circumstances

The Ayatolla wrote: »

Spot on. It's small-time thinking from entrepreneurs to discourage use of cards, and especially contactless.

Half of them probably don't realise the time it saves putting 10 cent coins into money bags and bringing them to a bank. :rolleyes:

Oh I think there is a particular motivation to keep cash rather than an electronic paper trail... and it's not the joy of change.