End of Contract - Part 4

tony1980

Hi All,

Sorry for the long post but thought a bit of background would be needed in order to help answer my query.

I would be grateful if someone could help answer my question.

We are coming to the end of our contract in a house we are renting. We initially had a 12 month contract from April 2015 to April 2016. Then we extended for another 6 months with a new 6 month contract with this house. We didnt want a longer one as we knew by this October we would possibly be in a position to purchase our own house. We should hear back next week about a full approval for a mortgage but we are only just starting to look so we expect to be here for possibly another 3-6 months.

Our issue is the Landlord contacted my wife today to say they would be increasing the rent from 900pm to 1300pm which we definitely cant afford especially with every penny going towards a deposit and expenses for a new house. I appreciate the landlord has to think of himself in this situation so I am not giving out about it.

We have had a very quite and comfortable stay in this house with no issues and little contact with the landlord and would like to stay on for a max, 6 months as we have two young kids who have just started school and would prefer the least upheavel for them as possible at the moment, both of our kids were diagnosed with asd very recently so change is tough so moving to another house for 6 months and then to another we buy would be very tough on them so would prefer just the one move if we can to keep the stress for them a minimum.

My question is, do we have rights under part 4 to stay on in the house and also, does the landlord have to wait 24 months after we moved in before increasing the rent and also have to provide this in writing with 90 days notice. I am wondering this as the second lease is up on the 31/10/16 so can we say we are staying on under part 4 and that also they cant increase the rent until next April or does the fact that the lease is finishing next week squash that.

When we spoke with the landlord in April to extend for another 6 months, we did say we would reassess in Oct if we need to stay a little longer due to the unknowns of mortgage applications and the time buying a house could take. They were happy with that so it really didnt enter my mind to discuss this with them last month as there was no indication that they would land the bombshell of an extra 400 a month when the time came to discuss staying on for a little longer.

For the record, they have been a good landlord and we have been good tenants with no issues at all.

Cheers for any info that you can provide.

4ensic15

You have Part 4 protection so the landlord can only remove you for one of the specified reasons. The rent cannot be reviewed until you have been 2 years in the property. You have to be given 90 days notice in writing and comparator properties.

Sarn

As above, based on a start date of April 2015 rent cannot be reviewed until April 2017.

tony1980

Cheers for the replies. So even with the contract ending on 31/10, I can just say I want to stay on and mention that the rent isnt due to be reviewed until April.

Sorry for the ignorance when asking this but how should this proceed. I notify the landlord that I wish to stay on under part 4 but do they have to give me a new contract or is it a case I just continue living there and have to give them the required notice when moving out and obviously they can then review the rent when the time is right if in the unlikely event, we were still there.

Am I ok to be doing this with only a week left on the current contract?

Sorry , part of this part 4 has me a bit confused so just want to be sure I am understanding it correctly.

68 lost souls

You probably should have given at least a months notice of staying under part 4 but no you don't need any contract you can just stay under part four. No lease is required while stayin under part 4.

Yes the landlord needs to give you 90 days written notice of a rent increase and can't increase it until April

tony1980

68 lost souls wrote: »

You probably should have given at least a months notice of staying under part 4 but no you don't need any contract you can just stay under part four. No lease is required while stayin under part 4.

Yes the landlord needs to give you 90 days written notice of a rent increase and can't increase it until April

Yes, I just noticed this. I hadn't looked into this prior to today so only just seeing this now. Below taken from Threshold site.

If you are coming to the end of a lease and wish to stay write to your landlord notifying them that you intend to stay. You should write to the landlord at least one month before (and at most three months from) the end of the lease.

Edit: Does this mean I can't stay on under part 4 and if I wish to stay on now, she could increase the rent as I haven't notified her a month prior to the lease ending or seek compensation as I haven't notified her at least a month prior to the contract ending?

If so, what type of compensation are we talking about here in general?

Graham

A Part 4 Tenant must notify a Landlord (not later than one month before but not any sooner than 3 months before the fixed term tenancy ends) if he or she wishes to stay on in the tenancy after the fixed term expires (s.195 of the RTA). Failure to do so will allow the landlord to bring a dispute for compensation for losses incurred but will not entitle the landlord to end the tenancy on this basis as a Part 4 tenancy has come into being.
http://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/ending-fixed-term-tenancies

tony1980

Graham wrote: »

A Part 4 Tenant must notify a Landlord (not later than one month before but not any sooner than 3 months before the fixed term tenancy ends) if he or she wishes to stay on in the tenancy after the fixed term expires (s.195 of the RTA). Failure to do so will allow the landlord to bring a dispute for compensation for losses incurred but will not entitle the landlord to end the tenancy on this basis as a Part 4 tenancy has come into being.
http://www.rtb.ie/dispute-resolution/dispute-resolution/the-three-stages-of-a-tenancy/ending-fixed-term-tenancies

What type of compensation are we talking about here in general?

I see there is a Mediation service that the RTB use which might be useful here but I am worried that the compensation would be the 400 extra a month she is seeking multiplied by 12, etc. I simply couldn't afford this and I am kicking myself that I didn't do this 3 weeks ago.

The contract does say the ending 31/10/16 but we have just paid for the month ahead which brings us to the end of November. Would this give me any hope in regards to a month's notice about part 4?

4ensic15

tony1980 wrote: »

What type of compensation are we talking about here in general?

I see there is a Mediation service that the RTB use which might be useful here but I am worried that the compensation would be the 400 extra a month she is seeking multiplied by 12, etc. I simply couldn't afford this and I am kicking myself that I didn't do this 3 weeks ago.

The contract does say the ending 31/10/16 but we have just paid for the month ahead which brings us to the end of November. Would this give me any hope in regards to a month's notice about part 4?

I have yet to hear of a case of a Landlord getting compensation in any amount under this heading. It would only be wasted advertising or marketing costs if they had been incurred before the tenant indicated that they would avail of part 4.

tony1980

4ensic15 wrote: »

I have yet to hear of a case of a Landlord getting compensation in any amount under this heading. It would only be wasted advertising or marketing costs if they had been incurred before the tenant indicated that they would avail of part 4.

Thanks for your reply. That sounds a bit better as when they spoke to my wife today, they asked if we were staying on or if they would have to look into contacting a rental agency to put it up again so they haven't done that yet. I will contact them in the morning to let them know that we wish to stay and that a letter will be in the post to them which they will have by Thursday stating this officially. I just have to get their address of them first as I don't have this.

Clampdown

The advice you've got here is correct, but guaranteed your landlord is going to dispute it and claim 'the lease is up, this is a new lease', etc. Hold your ground if he does.