Diesel trains suffocating Grand Canal Dock commuters

10000maniacs · 24-10-2016 10:38pm #1

Since the new platform was opened in Grand Canal Dock, diesel trains going to Drogheda and Maynooth spend 20 minutes with their engines running in Grand Canal Dock station literally suffocating people waiting for their Dart to arrive. And there is no escape from these toxic fumes as the trains take up the entire platform.
WTF? :eek:

tabbey · 24-10-2016 10:45pm

10000maniacs wrote: »

Since the new platform was opened in Grand Canal Dock, diesel trains going to Drogheda and Maynooth spend 20 minutes with their engines running in Grand Canal Dock station literally suffocating people waiting for their Dart to arrive. And there is no escape from these toxic fumes as the trains take up the entire platform.
WTF? :eek:

It should be fairly fresh at GCD, with the wind on the dock.

Your complaint would be more valid in Connolly, when the 1705 to Sligo and 1715 to Longford are side by side under a low roof. Not to mention a smoky EGV on the 1650 to Belfast.

10000maniacs · 24-10-2016 11:07pm

tabbey wrote: »

It should be fairly fresh at GCD, with the wind on the dock.

Your complaint would be more valid in Connolly, when the 1705 to Sligo and 1715 to Longford are side by side under a low roof. Not to mention a smoky EGV on the 1650 to Belfast.

So if it happens in Connolly, GCD commuters should put up with it too? What a load of old tosh. It is a health hazard and should be outlawed. Both in Connolly and GCD. Why do trains take 20 minutes to warm up anyway?

Atlantic Dawn · 24-10-2016 11:12pm

The suspected link with diesel fumes to alzheimer’s disease would make it a very hazourdous place to be working or staying around for long...

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/increase-tax-on-diesel-says-an-taisce-1.2823569

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3775249/Alzheimer-s-linked-diesel-engine-fumes-Tiny-particles-emitted-help-form-plaques-brain-cause-disease.html

gctest50 · 24-10-2016 11:54pm

10000maniacs wrote: »

So if it happens in Connolly, GCD commuters should put up with it too? What a load of old tosh. It is a health hazard and should be outlawed. Both in Connolly and GCD. Why do trains take 20 minutes to warm up anyway?

'cos they big ? used to be like this :

and put two of them in a train and they be like :

Losty Dublin · 24-10-2016 11:58pm

10000maniacs wrote: »

Since the new platform was opened in Grand Canal Dock, diesel trains going to Drogheda and Maynooth spend 20 minutes with their engines running in Grand Canal Dock station literally suffocating people waiting for their Dart to arrive. And there is no escape from these toxic fumes as the trains take up the entire platform.
WTF? :eek:

Any reports of deaths yet? :P

prinzeugen · 25-10-2016 12:04am

10000maniacs wrote: »

So if it happens in Connolly, GCD commuters should put up with it too? What a load of old tosh. It is a health hazard and should be outlawed. Both in Connolly and GCD. Why do trains take 20 minutes to warm up anyway?

So how are people going to get home if you outlaw diesel trains?

Ridiculous complaint. They (The trains you refer to) don't take 20 mins to warm up either. In theory once the engines are started and air pressure built, they are good to go.

If the fumes annoy you, perhaps move up or down the platform?

Do you want to ban busses also?

gctest50 · 25-10-2016 12:22am

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

The suspected link with diesel fumes to alzheimer’s disease would make it a very hazourdous place to be working or staying around for long...

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/increase-tax-on-diesel-says-an-taisce-1.2823569

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3775249/Alzheimer-s-linked-diesel-engine-fumes-Tiny-particles-emitted-help-form-plaques-brain-cause-disease.html

The link with colorectal cancer will get to you first though,

http://www.cantechletter.com/2016/01/diesel-exhaust-increases-risk-of-rectal-cancer-says-canadian-study/

new Passat comes with optional colostomy bag holder

n97 mini · 25-10-2016 8:56am

The WHO has diesel fumes on the same list as tobacco smoke. The fumes are dangerous.

I asked Barry Kenny and the minister for transport about 10 years ago why is the 17.15 to Longford sitting on P4 in Connolly, all engines running, at 16.45. No answer.

I suspect the engines are running to provide onboard light and heat, but it would be a lot better for everyone if they were left off until a few minutes before departure.

Del.Monte · 25-10-2016 9:03am

In old God's time there used to be signs up in Connolly and Heuston telling loco drivers to shut their locos on arrival. Then that seemed to be dispensed with only to return again and be dispensed with and....consistency has never been a CIE strong point.

Losty Dublin · 25-10-2016 9:12am

Del.Monte wrote: »

In old God's time there used to be signs up in Connolly and Heuston telling loco drivers to shut their locos on arrival. Then that seemed to be dispensed with only to return again and be dispensed with and....consistency has never been a CIE strong point.

Stopping engines was generally dispensed with as it led to crazy levels of engine failure, both chronic and acute. With the DMU's and their flat truck engines in vogue it is back in again.

Del.Monte · 25-10-2016 9:18am

Losty Dublin wrote: »

Stopping engines was generally dispensed with as it led to crazy levels of engine failure, both chronic and acute. With the DMU's and their flat truck engines in vogue it is back in again.

Oh, I know the reasons alright and can remember hiding the loco of the spray train in Foynes so that it didn't keep the whole town awake overnight.

10000maniacs · 25-10-2016 10:56am

n97 mini wrote: »

The WHO has diesel fumes on the same list as tobacco smoke. The fumes are dangerous.

I asked Barry Kenny and the minister for transport about 10 years ago why is the 17.15 to Longford sitting on P4 in Connolly, all engines running, at 16.45. No answer.

I suspect the engines are running to provide onboard light and heat, but it would be a lot better for everyone if they were left off until a few minutes before departure.

At least you have somewhere to go to wait until the last minute the train pulls off. And there are no Darts serviced on P4.
But on Grand Canal Dock this is not an option as normally the diesel trains take up the full length of the platform.
I cannot believe the "don't give a ****e" attitude expressed on this forum to a very serious and valid concern.
Must be the rail workers home from home here.:rolleyes:

n97 mini · 25-10-2016 12:53pm

10000maniacs wrote: »

At least you have somewhere to go to wait until the last minute the train pulls off. And there are no Darts serviced on P4

Anyone (like me) using the DARTs or Commuter trains on P5, 6 or 7 has to walk the length of P4, getting poisoned as they go!

runawaybishop · 25-10-2016 1:05pm

10000maniacs wrote: »

literally suffocating people

Jaysus, how may dead now and why haven't we heard of this!

Seanmk1 · 25-10-2016 1:10pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Jaysus, how may dead now and why haven't we heard of this!

I remember Heuston useful to have big boards with instructions to "SHUT DOWN LOCO ON ARRIVAL"

I was amazed when I moved London years ago and would see class 43s and 47s continuously belching out noxious filth in Paddington.

Anyway, what happened with the auto shutdown devices that were/are being fitted to DMUs to save fuel?

10000maniacs · 25-10-2016 1:51pm

runawaybishop wrote: »

Jaysus, how may dead now and why haven't we heard of this!

Because they move their carbon monoxide contaminated lungs onto to the bridge stairwell. That's what I do.

Okon · 25-10-2016 2:17pm

Maybe it's all part of a fiendish plot by IE to kill off as many commuters as they can and so ease congestion on their trains?!

goingnowhere · 25-10-2016 2:56pm

Any train in platform 2 is waiting to depart on a scheduled service

Trains not needed would be stored (and shutdown) in the Boston sidings or what is left of the stub of the old platform 1/2 at Pearse.

If the driver removes his/her key after 20 minutes the train will start to shut itself down automatically, 29000 units will kill the traction engines leaving the auxiliary engines running, 22k's will start to shutdown half of its engines and then after an hour completely

Jamie2k9 · 25-10-2016 3:34pm

10000maniacs wrote: »

Since the new platform was opened in Grand Canal Dock, diesel trains going to Drogheda and Maynooth spend 20 minutes with their engines running in Grand Canal Dock station literally suffocating people waiting for their Dart to arrive. And there is no escape from these toxic fumes as the trains take up the entire platform.
WTF? :eek:

How is it different to walking along a street full of traffic in evenings?

Jamie2k9 · 25-10-2016 3:36pm

Anyway, what happened with the auto shutdown devices that were/are being fitted to DMUs to save fuel?

They are set for around 30 minutes but suspect if someone has logged on they don't shut down. No need to shut down if only a small gap between service.

Stephen15 · 25-10-2016 3:38pm

In most European countries diesel is only confined to lesser used lines. Electrication is surely only expected in a first world wealthy nation.

Carawaystick · 25-10-2016 3:45pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Electrication is surely only expected in a first world wealthy nation.

I'm not sure I understand what this means.

What electrification system would you use for commuter trains and longer distance intercity?

Stephen15 · 25-10-2016 5:06pm

Carawaystick wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand what this means.

What electrification system would you use for commuter trains and longer distance intercity?

Anything from 750v which the dart is for commuter lines 25kv for high speed might aswell go the whole hog if your going for intercity.

jim-mcdee · 25-10-2016 5:20pm

Lots of Irish rail fanboys on here who won't hear a bad word said about them. Employees I would imagine. The Commuter trains are a disaster. You can be chocked by the fumes while travelling in them as well. Not to mention the noise. I have recorded 105 decibel in them regularity. They are not only giving people cancer but slowly deafening them as well. And no I'm not exaggerating.

Jamie2k9 · 25-10-2016 5:23pm

jim-mcdee wrote: »

Lots of Irish rail fanboys on here who won't hear a bad word said about them. Employees I would imagine. The Commuter trains are a disaster. You can be chocked by the fumes while travelling in them as well. Not to mention the noise. I have recorded 105 decibel in them regularity. They are not only giving people cancer but slowly deafening them as well. And no I'm not exaggerating.

I think you will find many here will rarely say a good word about them!

Stop been so dramatic about the fumes and as for the noise....close the windows!

Stephen15 · 25-10-2016 5:37pm

jim-mcdee wrote: »

Lots of Irish rail fanboys on here who won't hear a bad word said about them. Employees I would imagine. The Commuter trains are a disaster. You can be chocked by the fumes while travelling in them as well. Not to mention the noise. I have recorded 105 decibel in them regularity. They are not only giving people cancer but slowly deafening them as well. And no I'm not exaggerating.

They will until they go on strike

jim-mcdee · 25-10-2016 5:39pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

I think you will find many here will rarely say a good word about them!

Stop been so dramatic about the fumes and as for the noise....close the windows!

The windows don't open or close on Commuter trains so you should go comment on something you know about Mr.5000+ posts and leave this to actual people affected.

Jamie2k9 · 25-10-2016 6:10pm

jim-mcdee wrote: »

The windows don't open or close on Commuter trains so you should go comment on something you know about Mr.5000+ posts and leave this to actual people affected.

ICR's are not classed as commuter trains, windows open on DART and 2900 units. There is never fume issues with ICR's either, complete rubbish to say otherwise.

gctest50 · 25-10-2016 6:15pm

jim-mcdee wrote: »

...................I have recorded 105 decibel in them regularity...........

With what ?

n97 mini · 25-10-2016 6:28pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

ICR's are not classed as commuter trains, windows open on DART and 2900 units.

Typically only two at either end of diesel rail cars, but opening the windows on diesel rail cars in general can make the problem worse!

lucernarian · 25-10-2016 6:29pm

On the standard issue commuter train (29k) theere are definitely some windows that open.... Typically near each end of the carriage I think? And that would be nearest the exhaust pipes typically.

Anyways its unmerciful to not open a window on some days.

Carawaystick · 25-10-2016 6:29pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Anything from 750v which the dart is for commuter lines 25kv for high speed might aswell go the whole hog if your going for intercity.

Would you replace the whole dart system? Replace all mu rolling stock?
What would you do about running services to the uk?

prinzeugen · 25-10-2016 6:34pm

Stephen15 wrote: »

Anything from 750v which the dart is for commuter lines 25kv for high speed might aswell go the whole hog if your going for intercity.

Luas is 750v DC, DART 1500v DC.

All Mainline systems use 25kv AC.

DC electrification for heavy rail is very, very expensive so the cost of wiring Malahide - Belfast at 1500v DC would be prohibitive.

The only option would be to wire it at 25kv and use dual voltage trains. (Dual voltage trains being cheaper than the cost of converting the DART to AC)

gctest50 · 25-10-2016 6:58pm

Or put ventilation fans on the roof of the station ( and harvest the heat they gather too)

Atlantic Dawn · 25-10-2016 7:01pm

n97 mini wrote: »

Typically only two at either end of diesel rail cars, but opening the windows on diesel rail cars in general can make the problem worse!

Windows should never need to be ever opened if the carriages have AC.

Losty Dublin · 25-10-2016 7:25pm

lucernarian wrote: »

On the standard issue commuter train (29k) theere are definitely some windows that open.... Typically near each end of the carriage I think? And that would be nearest the exhaust pipes typically.

Anyways its unmerciful to not open a window on some days.

The exhaust portal for the train engine on a 29000 class DMU is actually on it's roof. There are small auxiliary engines on board that generate electricity for the train lights etc. They are just 75bhp and they feed into the same exhaust as the main engine as well. At best you will get some engine heat and smell but not train exhaust.

GreenFolder2 · 25-10-2016 7:27pm

Could they not just put a couple of large fans in the roof of busy stations to extract fumes?

Cookie_Monster · 25-10-2016 7:35pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Windows should never need to be ever opened if the carriages have AC.

IF, and IF it is working

Del.Monte · 25-10-2016 7:39pm

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Windows should never need to be ever opened if the carriages have AC.

Seasoned traveller by CIE?

gctest50 · 25-10-2016 8:59pm

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

Could they not just put a couple of large fans in the roof of busy stations to extract fumes?

few these :

http://www.france24.com/en/20161025-dutch-unveil-giant-vacuum-clean-outside-air

Oscar Bravo · 25-10-2016 9:10pm

Stand well back

GreenFolder2 · 25-10-2016 11:53pm

They put 'jet fans' in tunnels, so why not railway platforms? Same problem really - it would shift the smoke out the end.

Even a lot of car parks have them.

Atlantic Dawn · 26-10-2016 12:00am

Del.Monte wrote: »

Seasoned traveller by CIE?

The problem is some clown "engineers" don't understand what AC actually is, they think it's only to be used to cool the train on the hottest day of the year.

tabbey · 26-10-2016 8:10am

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

They put 'jet fans' in tunnels, so why not railway platforms? Same problem really - it would shift the smoke out the end.

Even a lot of car parks have them.

These fans would have to be powered by electricity, the generation of which involves burning more carbon, thus adding to the world's pollution, until supplies are exhausted, when we can all starting walking again.

jim-mcdee · 26-10-2016 9:34am

gctest50 wrote: »

With what ?

A device called a sound level meter. Usually areas exposed to sound levels above 100 db require hearing protection if working in that area I believe. I would think passengers traveling no different. I notice no staff at all on the carriages of these trains and I wonder if it is because of ticketing system or to protect Irish Rail from lawsuits. Not all carriages have sound levels as high as this, but in my experience about 1 in 3 or 4 do.It is highest when pulling away from stations. I don't know why some are so much noisier that others. It must be to do with load or location of the engine. Also I would be very interested to know if any air quality tests have been carried out INSIDE the carriages. Again not all but a few carriages are definitely leaking exhaust fumes into the passenger areas. It is not a "smell" as someone else here commented but fumes. And it is much worse than street traffic.Of course scientific evidence would be great but I doubt such info would be released to the public if such tests were carried out.

Carawaystick · 26-10-2016 10:24am

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

Could they not just put a couple of large fans in the roof of busy stations to extract fumes?

I'm not sure if the roof of Grand canal dock would support such large fans.....

LXFlyer · 26-10-2016 10:46am

Carawaystick wrote: »

I'm not sure if the roof of Grand canal dock would support such large fans.....

What roof?

Grand Canal Dock station is out in the open!!!

Turnipman · 26-10-2016 10:56am

lxflyer wrote: »

What roof? Grand Canal Dock station is out in the open!!!

Methinks you need to re-calibrate your irony detection meter!

LXFlyer · 26-10-2016 11:02am

Turnipman wrote: »

Methinks you need to re-calibrate your irony detection meter!

Well it kind of goes back to the original complaint about being suffocated - it's a tad difficult to do when you're in the open air.

I was fully aware of the irony - but seemingly some posters aren't aware of the lie of the land at GCD.

Turnipman · 26-10-2016 11:18am

lxflyer wrote: »

Well it kind of goes back to the original complaint about being suffocated - it's a tad difficult to do when you're in the open air. I was fully aware of the irony - but seemingly some posters aren't aware of the lie of the land at GCD.

The German Army managed to suffocate thousands of Allied Soldiers with Mustard and Chlorine Gas on the wide open plains of the Somme during WW1 so who can say that the evil geniuses in Irish Rail couldn't manage a similar trick using a particularly toxic brand of diesel oil at GCD!

Diesel trains suffocating Grand Canal Dock commuters

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