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What's the most reliable petrol car made?
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20-10-2016 10:08am#1
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Mercedes M111 (.940/the 2 litre version)
Bapped mine off the limiter every chance it got, 250k miles and never missed a beat. Decent power delivery, never burned oil and faithful to me to the very end when I waved it goodbye to it's new owner
Think it's still going strong... I miss that car
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There's too many that match up to really say, most 90's stuff from Japan was ridiculous in terms of reliability.
This thread will be a mixture of anecdotes and opinions.
Any mentions of sub 500k miles are a waste of time though
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Had a 91 Nissan Primera 1.6l that was passed down to me. Never skipped a beat till some scumbag in Limerick nicked and set it ablaze.
Also had a 01 Honda S2000 AP1. Definition of reliable. I will own one of these again in the next 18-24 months and shall not part with it again
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Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭
Join Date:Posts: 59144
Of those two the Volvo counts far more. Not to diminish the longevity of the car itself, but the Merc went through four engines and even more gearboxes over that milage. Under the skin it's more like Trigger's broom.There are only two cars that have proven to be the most reliable ever made. Both have done over 5 million km. One is a 60s Volvo P1800 petrol and the other is a 70s Mercedes-Benz 240d diesel
There's a 90's Honda Accord in the US that has done the million miles(over one and half million Kms in new money).No Japanese car (petrol or diesel) has ever even done anywhere near half that mileage...
I'd bet that there are/were many different car models that could do daftly high milages without much in the way of parts changing. The owners are what counts. Only real outliers and oddballs will hang on to a car long enough and need/want to drive big distances to get to that point.
Take the daddy of them all for milage, that Volvo P1800. Other examples are not nearly as robust. They were known for rusting if you looked at them sideways(even when they were more current). The sills are more likely to be colanders than solid steel, they are a thundering bitch to repair bodywork on and the doors are the near dictionary definition of a rust trap. That's before we get to the usual wheel arches etc. Hell they could rust in the roof. Pick a panel or joint and you'll find one with rust in it. Jap cars of a certain vintage have a well deserved bad rep for being rust magnets, but a 60's Volvo P1800 knocks them into a cocked hat. Engine wise the Volvo is a good un, especially for the era, though older greasy bits because of less electromechanical complication tend to be better that way in general. Gearboxes are solid too, but no more solid than other cars.
So if you want to run a million or more miles, pick a not too complex simple enough car(no turbos or highly strung engines, some VTECs might get away with it. The K20 for example), maintain it with a religious fervour and drive everywhere for many decades on a daily basis. Living in a huge country helps. If a 60's Volvo can do that milage, there's no good engineering reason why say a 90's Toyota or VW won't. I say 90's because that's kinda the sweet spot in car mechanicals and engineering between having grease nipples that need attending period and the reliance on bespoke complex electronics period.Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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I know of a superb tdi with 700,000km+ and an 99 tdi passat with 400,000+ miles on it and these are in Ireland where cars are treated like sh1te. And that's leaving out all the tdi's and d4d's that have been clocked a couple of times in their lives on this island and indeed over in England before theyou even get here
To get back to the thread on PETROL cars/engines I've put forward two relatively complex efi toyota v8 petrol engines which have reached 1 million and 930,000 miles respectively in the last 20 years so that puts pay to the theory that mercedes are alone in the million mile reliability stakes and that's before you take into account the amount of Toyota's v8 and v6 and indeed diesel engines that are running all over Africa and the middle east where the who has the most milage p1ssing contest phenomenon isn't remotely on the minds of the drivers.
My favourite cars are predominantly jap but I have a respect and passion for all cars and I've also owned all sorts of makes and models save for American manufactures due to lack of local availability. Generally the only times I harp on about jap cars on here is in defence of blind criticisms put forward generally by euro and Italian car fanatics of which there are plenty on here, if that's your forté fair enough no need to sh1t all over other people's preferences.
We get it, in day to day life ignorant people often stereotypically dismiss ye're preferred marque's but from what I've seen this past year on boards almost nobody who's any way into cars does this in relation to euro and italian brands yet a few very informed posters continuously criticise Japanese cars in the same ignorant manner it's really pretty sad and ironic.
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Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!Join Date:Posts: 64848
Was that aimed at me, selectamatic?
Your argument would gain considerable gravitas if instead of ranting you would just post some Japanese cars that have done 3, 4, or 5 million km. Oh, wait. There aren't any Lotus Elan turbo for sale:
https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/lotus-elan-turbo/38336785
My ads on adverts.ie:
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Was that aimed at me, selectamatic?
Your argument would gain considerable gravitas if instead of ranting you would just post some Japanese cars that have done 3, 4, or 5 million km. Oh, wait. There aren't any
In part it was, specifically the claim that mercedes diesels of the 70/80's were the only engine capable of doing 1 million miles consistently I countered this by giving two examples of massively more complex petrol engines belonging to a Japanese marque which have done just that therefore your statement wasnt correct. I never questioned your point on 4/5 million km.
Further up the thread you jokingly criticise Honda's for rusting yet here you are waxing lyrical about mercedes, again it's an example of wilful ignorance and irony.
You and quite a few others contribute massively to the site and the motoring forums in particular and are responsible for the sites success and indeed fundamental to the success of the site in the future but in some instances all these positive contributions are let down by mindless sniping in relation to certain car brands.0 -
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Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!Join Date:Posts: 64848
Sample size of 3 does in no way mean that.
I exaggerated a bit
A man educated in statistics and interested in motors like yourself must share my appreciation for the reliability of that engine though even from a statistical point of view!Lotus Elan turbo for sale:
https://www.donedeal.ie/vintagecars-for-sale/lotus-elan-turbo/38336785
My ads on adverts.ie:
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I used to own a 91 Toyota MR2, SW20 model with standard (non-turbo) engine.
iirc, the engine number was something like 3S-GE.
I never had a minutes bother with it, and owned it from 1998 til around 2011.
The mechanic I used to service it said it was the best engine he had ever worked on, and it would go on forever if I serviced it annually.
.....
Timing belt equipped but non interference design.
Superior to chain driven valve trains IMO....
To be fair though. Old mercs would swing it as a package 0 -
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No. The oil is good, the engine is fine, but there is more to it...So if they were able to build engines of that quality over 25yrs ago, are we still getting new engines improving on them? Or has engine technology gone backwards?
Or maybe it says more about Mobil oil.
Here is the problem. I guess the measured engine wear on the test was minimal. This test is a near equivalent of the emission testing and the late news regarding achieving the very low results.The only thing is people will knock it as it was on a rolling road and not in real world conditions...
So where is the problem? Most of the engine wear (at least 80%) occurs during (cold) start up and warm up. When the engine and the oil is up to its operation temperature, the wear of the engine components is minimal. And that is how they ran the engine in that test. In perfect working conditions that never happen during normal engine's life. No cold starts, or a very few of them.
Now imagine an average person that has to drive in the morning, and it’s freezing. You might have this habit of getting in your ice cube of a car, turning it on, and clearing all the snow off until the car is warmed up. That way you can also get the heater going as well. This is a terrible habit because your engine struggles to warm up in sub freezing temperatures, and until it does, it may take up to 15 minutes and all the while it is experiencing extreme wear and tear. Nothing like this was mentioned in the test. Just the rolling road and the engine that almost never cools down during the test. Perfect, especially with the regular servicing (as in the test) any good engine would come up with superb results. I guess in the conditions as in that test a similar result could be achieved using an alternative (almost any) engine oil.
And finally at the context of the test, we should also mention this:[...]
Owner: Mobil Oil. 0 -
Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 60,217 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Join Date:Posts: 59144
What Seweryn said. The Mobil 1 "test" is largely… what's the word… advertising, or a better word, bollocks. Pretty much any half decent engine(which the Beemer in question certainly has) running almost continually at peak thermal and mechanical efficiency with very regular fluid changes will pass such a test. It;s a little like the lightbulb effect. A bulb left continuously on is generally gonna last much longer than one being switched off and on day in day out.
Even in the real world of everyday driving petrolheads know this. IE we know that a car with 100,000 largely motorway miles on the clock is generally a far better prospect as far as all wear and tear is concerned than one with 100,000 miles in stop start short distance city driving.
Another aspect to the mad high milages some rare cars have achieved is that in the future this is far less likely because of A) increasing complication in cars, so more bits and bobs that can and will fail and
emissions tests and restrictions. The latter would require more money on the part of the owner to sort as the engine aged, so people would be more likely to scrap and go for newer. It would take another oddball like Volvo man to persevere through that. And that's before we get to the coming electric and autonomous cars, which may and likely will make older oil burners more a novelty for weekend enthusiasts.
My now personal "record"? The highest mileage car I've personally owned was an imported Honda Integra Si(B18 Vtec 1.8) that came with 122,000 Kms when I got it. I got it up to 209k then sold it on. I know it made it to just under the 300k mark, still passing NCT's, but after that I dunno. At that point other than basic services and timing belt changes the radiator had sprung a leak, the main relay went on the blink, one leccy window winder gave up the ghost, the brake discs had more lip than Mick Jagger so they got swapped out, it needed a silencer and the synchros on third gear required more attention when selecting that gear. Oddly the dizzy didn't blow as they often do with them. Still on original clutch and suspension, pumps etc. No rust either, but in fairness I'm para about the tinworm so the car was more waxoyl than steel.
Plus I'm anal about oil changes and replace every 3000kms without fail. Rejoice in the awareness of feeling stupid, for that’s how you end up learning new things. If you’re not aware you’re stupid, you probably are.
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