Testosterone

nomadchocolate

If I go to my doctor will I be able to ask the doctor to check my testosterone levels and if so, how much will it cost?

My deceased father had to get testosterone injections.

I am only 24 but have a really low refractory level and have almost zero muscle mass.

Mods: Please don't delete, I'm not asking for medical advice, just advice about medical advice!

Thanks

Nomad

Pepe LeFrits

Yes, it's just a blood test. So hmm, €120?

nomadchocolate

Pepe LeFrits wrote: »

Yes, it's just a blood test. So hmm, €120?

Oh, it's just a standard bloodtest?

Pepe LeFrits

Yeah. When the doctor submits it for analysis they'll tick a bunch of different boxes depending on what they're checking for.

Wibbs

I dunno about cost TBH, but I had my testosterone measured as part of other tests way back in the 90's. I'd imagine, as these things tend to be, it's far easier to do these days? IF anything testing for doping athletes should have made things easier. I'd just go ahead and ask your doc. If it doesn't figure in their usual repertoire, then I'd bet anything they can point you to where you can get it checked(endocrinologist?).

As far as muscle mass goes I'd not be so sure that's any gauge N. The above tests I've had showed I was higher than average on that score and I'm no muscly guy. The doc in question had a bit of a giggle at that. The bastard (great doctor actually). I did need to shave at 15 mind you. From what I recall in conversations from back then with him, natural levels vary quite the bit between men(and depend on age too), within a range and no obvious differences within that range. I have read all sorts of panic stuff online on the matter and it seems to be an industry of sorts in some places, but I'd go with actual doctor's opinions.

Refractory levels again from what I recall vary widely between healthy men.

TL;DR? Ask your doc, probably cheap enough.

newacc2015

Most bloods for the country are done in a handful of hospitals. I dont think they even charge GPs. I assume your GP will probably charge a regular fee, plus more for drawing bloods

I would phone ahead first and see if you can get the nurse to draw the bloods. Then get the Doc to review the results to avoid 2 GP fees

Musketeer4

Abuse of testosterone gels is rife among the bodybuilding and sports communities. Doctors are wide to the craic and are wary of young fellas asking about testosterone tests etc because of a suspicion that they're angling for a testosterone prescription.
This is all tied in with problems men have these days with body image. They all want to be shredded to fúck.

By all means ask for the test but be prepared for refusal. If you don't have any obvious symptoms of hypogonadism/testosterone deficiency the doctor will see no reason to do the test. Unless you are chronically fatigued, have hot flushes, lost androgenic hair, have erectile and ejaculatory dysfunction then it's fairly unlikely that you have a deficiency.

The fact that you brought up muscle mass would indicate to me that your reasons for asking for such a test would, on some level at least, have to do with body image or wanting to bulk up.

What do you mean by low refractory level?

Wibbs

Musketeer4 wrote: »

What do you mean by low refractory level?

I assume he means this . The time between arousal/orgasms.

nomadchocolate

Musketeer4 wrote: »

Abuse of testosterone gels is rife among the bodybuilding and sports communities. Doctors are wide to the craic and are wary of young fellas asking about testosterone tests etc because of a suspicion that they're angling for a testosterone prescription.
This is all tied in with problems men have these days with body image. They all want to be shredded to fúck.

By all means ask for the test but be prepared for refusal. If you don't have any obvious symptoms of hypogonadism/testosterone deficiency the doctor will see no reason to do the test. Unless you are chronically fatigued, have hot flushes, lost androgenic hair, have erectile and ejaculatory dysfunction then it's fairly unlikely that you have a deficiency.

The fact that you brought up muscle mass would indicate to me that your reasons for asking for such a test would, on some level at least, have to do with body image or wanting to bulk up.

What do you mean by low refractory level?

Well low muscle mass and low refractory period are symptoms of testosterone deficiency from my understanding. Low muscle mass in that I cannot even do a push up, twig arms. Believe me a shot of testosterone wouldn't turn me into Arnie!

What constitutes testosterone abuse?

Also thank Wibbs for response!

Peregrinus

nomadchocolate wrote: »

Well low muscle mass and low refractory period are symptoms of testosterone deficiency from my understanding. Low muscle mass in that I cannot even do a push up, twig arms. Believe me a shot of testosterone wouldn't turn me into Arnie!

Lots of people can't do push-ups, and there are lots of causes for this, the most common being lack of training. A low refractory period is not a problem, ya stallion ya! I think you mean that you have a high refractory period, but you dont' say how high. It would need to be very high indeed before it would be considered medically concerning.

As others have said, you can ask your doctor for a testosterone test. Your inabality to do push-ups and your high refractory period don't really amount to much, but coupled with your family history your GP might agree that they warrant a blood test. No harm in asking, anyway.

Musketeer4

Yeah, I think you're right. He really means a long refractory period. I don't think that is a problem unless it is very long.

I'd be a bit concerned thought that OP is having some sort of body image issues in that he keeps bringing it back to muscle mass. Perhaps he is just an ectomorph body type maybe.

I'd wonder does he have any other clinical signs of deficiency - lack of body/facial hair, ejaculatory dysfunction, fatigue etc.

At the end of the day the only way to be sure is to get the test done. Given that there may be some genetic component the doctor will probably order the test. Go for it dude.

I would define testosterone abuse as the use of testosterone without the recommendation and prescription from a doctor.

silverharp

there are lifestyle and diet suggestions out there but I guess they wouldn't fix an underlying problem. weight training has been shown to boost levels. The Op might not be able to do a push up but they would be able to a squat with weights

Musketeer4

And make sure he's eating the right amount of fats. Fats are needed for making hormones.

ThinkProgress

Eat some steak, listen to angry rock music and train hard... you'll not be needing those drugs boy!

Musketeer4

'roids, brah.

nomadchocolate

Musketeer4 wrote: »

Yeah, I think you're right. He really means a long refractory period. I don't think that is a problem unless it is very long.

I'd be a bit concerned thought that OP is having some sort of body image issues in that he keeps bringing it back to muscle mass. Perhaps he is just an ectomorph body type maybe.

I'd wonder does he have any other clinical signs of deficiency - lack of body/facial hair, ejaculatory dysfunction, fatigue etc.

At the end of the day the only way to be sure is to get the test done. Given that there may be some genetic component the doctor will probably order the test. Go for it dude.

I would define testosterone abuse as the use of testosterone without the recommendation and prescription from a doctor.

Have the facial hair growth of an old Irish granny. Walk past a secondary school everyday and some of them look like Spartans!

ThinkProgress

Musketeer4 wrote: »

'roids, brah.

Don't take this advice... because he's correct, you will eventually require a bra[h] if you do!

Musketeer4

OP there seems to be a somewhat convincing case for your doctor to get a T test done.

But don't go in asking for a T test straight out. Describe your symptoms such as the lack of hair, low muscle mass, erection problems, father's testosterone treatment etc and allow the doctor to make their own call on what to do.

D'Agger

Interesting topic and one I looked into last year before a checkup on account of feeling like I might have low levels. The bloods came back normal and I was properly shocked on account of:

- Feeling constantly tired
- Sleeping alot
- Low sex drive

The answer was diet, don't get me wrong, I still think my sex drive could be higher & I'm tired plenty but I was training with football 3 times a week and not eating enough to cover that - over the course of a few months that completely wrecked me. I was sleeping to help aches and pains from training instead of eating & supplementing correctly along with stretching or doing mobility work/yoga etc.

OP talk to the doctor and see what he says because he's the professional, but I'd imagine you'll get told to do the following, then come see him in a couple of months if you're seeing no results

- Start training (Bodyweight exercises at home, follow a program)

- If you do training, then do mobility work with it to prevent you breaking down in time. I'd recommend pilates, you'll feel good/full of energy after it & just do stretching for 10mins in the morning.

- If you're training, increase your diet. Eat fats as has been mentioned already (avocados & nuts), Eat carbs too - the correct carbs (brown pasta, brown rice & porridge - chuck chia & other seeds/nuts in morning porridge and you're already after making a big change imo

- Supplement training with protein/gainer - if anything it's calories for you, I'd to rush out the door this morning, had a quick protein shake and it prevented me feeling ****ty until such time that I was able to get some breakfast into me at work.


It's very easy for me to dole out the above advice, I'm on top of my diet, I eat enough & the plan is for me to increase the amount I'm eating as I head into a winter training programme - which is something I haven't been on top of for quite a while. Implementing something like that is a big lifestyle change and takes work which in itself can be tiring/draining so if you're not seeing results after a while you should ask yourself are you fully committing to it before going back to the doctor looking for a solution.

Hope the above helps, any other queries feel free to ask here or drop a PM

adam88

nomadchocolate wrote: »

Have the facial hair growth of an old Irish granny. Walk past a secondary school everyday and some of them look like Spartans!

I'm only out of secondary school 11 years but the lads that are coming out now are animals compared to what we were like. Defo something going on somewhere. They all can't be in the gym morning noon and night

pumpkin4life

adam88 wrote: »

I'm only out of secondary school 11 years but the lads that are coming out now are animals compared to what we were like. Defo something going on somewhere. They all can't be in the gym morning noon and night

Testosterone in men has been declining over the past few decades. In my age group and younger (early/mid twenties) you're seeing men which are much taller, but at the same time, much narrower frames. Older lads seem much more broad shouldered compared to the younger lads on the average.

I'd guess what you're seeing is the extremes there.

As for increasing testosterone.

Lift weights

Eat a low carb paleo/ketogenic diet.

Supplement vitamin d/zinc/get lots of sunlight.

Here's a funny one. Male testosterone goes up if you win at something and goes down if you lose at something. Good reason to support Dublin football and not Mayo football:P

Blacktie.

pumpkin4life wrote:

Eat a low carb paleo/ketogenic diet.

Not necessary. Once fat intake is sufficient cutting out carbs won't benefit at all. I'd even call it counter active as it adds additional stress to people. Eating out, social occasions etc.

D'Agger

Blacktie. wrote: »

Not necessary. Once fat intake is sufficient cutting out carbs won't benefit at all. I'd even call it counter active as it adds additional stress to people. Eating out, social occasions etc.

I think you can certainly reduce but I wouldn't cut out completely & stick to complex carbs such as brown rice rather than simple, white rice

philstar

are gay men low in testosterone ?? is that what contributes to them being gay??

Peregrinus

Lord bless your innocence! No, not at all. Testosterone levels have no effect on sexual orientation. The symptoms of testosterone deficiency are as already described in this thread.

ThinkProgress

philstar wrote: »

are gay men low in testosterone ?? is that what contributes to them being gay??

Interesting question...

There are plenty of gay men with high test scores, sex drive, muscle mass etc... so I would guess that test levels do not influence your actual sexuality.

However, they might perhaps influence your sexual preferences and behavior. ie - if you are quite an effeminate gay man that takes on a more female oriented role in a relationship, I would say it's quite likely that your test levels could be significantly lower than a more masculine gay man.

Of course, this is just speculation. I have not done any research on the subject...

But we do know that testosterone does produce many very predictable behaviors and characteristics. And those with higher levels will usually have those attributes in a more pronounced manner. (even women who take supplementary test, tend to become more masculine in both appearance and behaviors)

So short answer, sexuality? No, not really... Gender specific traits, however? Yes - highly likely I would say!

Your question has got me curious now! :pac:

They are very complex topics, both sexuality and gender. We don't understand a huge amount about how it all connects up... but I do find it very interesting!

Peregrinus

Just as there's no evidence linking testosterone levels with sexual orientation, so as far as I know there's no evidence linking testosterone levels (in either gay or straight people) with any particular preferences as regards sexual behaviour or sexual roles. Higher testosterone levels are associated with increased libido, but that's true regardless of an individual's preferred sexual behaviours or roles.

What you could have is . . .

. . . testosterone levels affecting the physical presentation of secondary sexual characteristics, plus

. . . cultural factors linking those physical characteristics with particular sexual behaviour.

So, e.g., a man presents physically as very masculine - muscles, body hair, etc - and this makes him attractive to women who are physically drawn to that body type. If - and this is unknown - those women are also drawn to stereotypically masculine sexual behaviour, then such a man will tend to be rewarded for displaying that behaviour. To be blunt, he will get laid more by conforming to the expectations of women who find his body-type appealing. This may influence the development of his own preferences as regards sexual behaviour. And it could work the other way for men with lower testosterone levels. And it could also work as regards women, and how their sexual preferences are influenced by the expectations of their partners, based on physical appearance. And it would work equally in gay and straight contexts.

But, note, this isn't really hormonal; it's cultural. And it crucially depends on, e.g., women who are drawn to stereotypically masculine body types also preferring and reinforcing stereotypically masculine sexual behaviours, which may not be the case, or may not be the case with sufficient reliability to influence male sexual behaviours.

Musketeer4

did you get the test OP?

At the end of the day if the test is normal and the OP wants to get himself swole as shít all he can really do about it is eat plenty calories and lift. Doing that will boost his testosterone levels too.

fryup

^^^^^^^^^^

lifting weights increases your testosterone ??

Wibbs

fryup wrote: »

^^^^^^^^^^

lifting weights increases your testosterone ??

Seems to alright. The bigger the muscles involved, the more test(and human growth hormone and other stuff) increases(so the compound lift stuff, like deadlifts and squats that work the bigger/core muscles give the biggest returns). Which makes good biological sense with it. If the body uses something more, it tends to produce the environment where the thing that drives the "more required" is increased. The body gets the input of more muscle required for some reason, likely survival based, therefore we better start increasing the components that make that happen. I seem to recall and god, correct me if I"m wrong, that fat tissue tends to release more oestrogen(among other things), so muscle releases, or causes to release more testosterone. It's not nearly so simplistic of course. EG muscle is a high maintenance tissue. It needs lots of calories just sitting there doing nothing. The extreme types like bodybuilders need mad levels of calories to sustain their extra bulk. It's mad hungry. It's "good times" tissue. Fat is "jayzuz, better have some savings in the bank" so burns nada by comparison.

Musketeer4

My housemate eats 7500 calories a day while on a cut. God only knows how much he eats while bulking. The guy is yolked to fúck, he's an absolute animal.

Wibbs

Down the years I've known a couple of lads into the oul bodybuilding. All amateur guys now, but the dedication involved is massive(no pun). Even with lads taking illegal "supplements" the sheer work required is unreal. That and the calorie intake(and attention to each meal breakdown) was what impressed me I have to say. Muscle is a demanding and hungry mistress indeed*. It did skew my take on performance enhancing drugs I have to say. Yes I still believe they are a real unregulated danger and the thoughts that young lads in school may be turning to them to build this "perfect" body image runs my blood cold, but I certainly threw out the notion that it was simply a case of pop a few pills and await the He Man body. In much the same way that I'd see Lance Armstrong and all those other pro cyclists as drug cheats but the roids and EPO wasn't turning those pedals in all weathers up hill and down dale for thousands of miles per week, year in year out.




*Funny enough one theory, at least one of the reasons why maybe our kind of humans out competed all the others was that we were less muscular and therefore required less food and were slightly more prone to adding fat, so when times were lean we were more likely to survive it. EG Neandertals were real muscly bruisers and far stronger than modern peoples and estimates for their calorie requirements run at about a third up to a half extra on top of ours.

Musketeer4

Plus the fact that they were probably as thick as shíte in comparison to a modern human.

italodisco

I went to my gp complaining of a big change in ejaculatory volume and a big drop in my interest in Sex.
Did bloods for testosterone, LH, fsh, estrogen, prolactin and testosterone was way too low.

Just ask the gp to do it, it cost me 40 quid.

Musketeer4

So what did your GP say was the cause of this? What was done to remedy it?

italodisco

Musketeer4 wrote: »

So what did your GP say was the cause of this? What was done to remedy it?

Well I got an mri to rule out pituitary gland problems and that came back fine.

So based on that I'm assuming it's my testes.

If they offer trt make sure to go the Injection route though, gels are nonsense. The Injection o don't hurt at all.

Dont pay attention to those who say you have to have symptoms x y z to have low test, you don't.

Oh, and if u get sent to an endocrinologist in the matter hospital be prepared be pissed off. I was accused of previous steroid abuse etc. I never used that ****e.

Musketeer4

I thought the gels give good transdermal absorbtion, no? Is it jus thte inconvenience of having to do it daily, the mess that you object to?

fryup

italodisco wrote: »

The Injection don't hurt at all.

and where is it on the body?

Musketeer4

usually into the muscle in your shoulder.

Musketeer4

How did you get on op? did you get the T test? Were you prescibed any T supplementation?

jenny smith

nomadchocolate wrote: »

If I go to my doctor will I be able to ask the doctor to check my testosterone levels and if so, how much will it cost?

My deceased father had to get testosterone injections.

I am only 24 but have a really low refractory level and have almost zero muscle mass.

Mods: Please don't delete, I'm not asking for medical advice, just advice about medical advice!

Thanks

Nomad

You can ask him anything you want. Whether he does it will depend on your history and his diagnosis

I am only 24 but have a really low refractory level and have almost zero muscle mass.

he may or may not agree.And if he agrees may not give you the shots Not being smart but he is the doctor and your father's history may or may not be relevant