Return from mat leave - Demotion?

Whereisgerry?

I returned to work from mat leave a few months ago and my manager has changed my title from senior to junior. My grade within the company has remained the same.

Im not sure how to approach this as I'm unsure if its an issue or not considering the grade stays the same. Any advice?

Diziet

I think it is an issue and you should raise it. Titles do matter, both now and down the line.

Zipppy

private sector?
unionised?

uck51js9zml2yt

Give NERA a call
https://www.djei.ie/en/What-We-Do/Jobs-Workplace-and-Skills/Employment-Permits/Employment-Permit-Policy/National-Employment-Rights-Authority-NERA-/

sareer

How long were you off? Isn't there some time limit within which one can keep the position? I know it's there in other EU countries but don't know about Ireland.

Whereisgerry?

Thanks for the advice. Its private sector so no union. I could ask HR but don't want to rock the boat until I'm sure its a issue. I was off for roughly 50 weeks. I have a copy of my contract stating I'm a senior. I'll contact NERA - best place to check.

Stheno

Has anything else such as pay or conditions changed?

Have your colleagues who were also in the same role had the change applied to them?

Also what industry (finance/it) is this in?

Diziet

It is much easier to address this now and get it fixed, rather than later. A simple email to your manager and HR saying 'I noticed m title has been changed and please change it back' should do the trick. In your shoes, I would consider it a demotion because of mat leave, which is against the law. The grade may be the same now, but cone the next promotion it is pretty much guaranteed not to be to your benefit.

Whereisgerry?

Stheno wrote: »

Has anything else such as pay or conditions changed?

Have your colleagues who were also in the same role had the change applied to them?

Also what industry (finance/it) is this in?

No - pay and conditions have remained the same. Theres another lady who returned from mat leave & her title and grade have remained the same albeit at a different level.

Financial Services - multinational i.e. they should know better!!

Whereisgerry?

Diziet wrote: »

It is much easier to address this now and get it fixed, rather than later. A simple email to your manager and HR saying 'I noticed m title has been changed and please change it back' should do the trick. In your shoes, I would consider it a demotion because of mat leave, which is against the law. The grade may be the same now, but cone the next promotion it is pretty much guaranteed not to be to your benefit.

I'm going to have a chat with my manager today. I'll let you know how I get on.

Lux23

Do you think this is maybe a mistake?

listermint

Lux23 wrote: »

Do you think this is maybe a mistake?

Highly doubt it, Ive seen this nonsense go on.

CIARAN_BOYLE

If pay and conditions have remained the same its possible that the team expanded slightly and she has gone from being the 3rd most senior in a team of 6 to 4th most senior in a team of 7 and the change from senior to junior reflects that.

While titles matter pay and conditions are imo more important.

Bandana boy

It is a tricky one but I think you could have a claim for redundancy with a title change.
Would you be interested in redundancy ?
I would approach it as a this looks like a mistake , my title has changed.
If he says No you are now a junior , Say you will consider this offer of a different job but what is the redundancy offer if you refuse.

If this is financial sector there is a good chance this could cost you money.
There is a lot of restructuring and standardizing around pay conditions in the Big financial companies at the moment and your title will decide your band and bonus structure.
It is possible that as senior you are below the latest band and bonus structure and he is trying to avoid having to bump you up.

Whereisgerry?

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

If pay and conditions have remained the same its possible that the team expanded slightly and she has gone from being the 3rd most senior in a team of 6 to 4th most senior in a team of 7 and the change from senior to junior reflects that.

While titles matter pay and conditions are imo more important.

No I moved into a new team but under the same management.

I think the title is important too. If I move companies they would want to know why I went from senior manager to junior manager. Looks bad on a cv.

Whereisgerry?

Bandana boy wrote: »

It is a tricky one but I think you could have a claim for redundancy with a title change.
Would you be interested in redundancy ?
I would approach it as a this looks like a mistake , my title has changed.
If he says No you are now a junior , Say you will consider this offer of a different job but what is the redundancy offer if you refuse.

If this is financial sector there is a good chance this could cost you money.
There is a lot of restructuring and standardizing around pay conditions in the Big financial companies at the moment and your title will decide your band and bonus structure.
It is possible that as senior you are below the latest band and bonus structure and he is trying to avoid having to bump you up.

I didn't get a minute to discuss this today. So I'll update further tomorrow.

Bandana boy - that could be it I guess but its a big risk for them to take considering its illegal- . I'd love redundancy (sorry! Terrible thing to say when people are desperate for jobs but it would suit me at the moment) but I don't think they would get rid of me.

davo10

It is not illegal to demote you, it is illegal to demote you because you were pregnant. The fact that you moved teams (you left that out of the opening post) would seem to muddy the waters a little, did you apply for the move and are you the senior person on the new team or, was there already a senior person in this new team and you are under her/him?

livedadream

i do remember being told and ive mentioned this on previous threads, by a lecturer of mine,

a pregnant or post partum woman would come into the MD's office, piss in his bin and set the place on fire and still not get fired.

yes its a joke but it goes to show how serious messing with stuff like that it.

check with HR is it a title change due to any reason or call NERA to make sure.

Atlantic Dawn

Would they not need to give you a new contract if they are changing the title of the role stated in your current contract?

Whereisgerry?

livedadream wrote: »

i do remember being told and ive mentioned this on previous threads, by a lecturer of mine,

a pregnant or post partum woman would come into the MD's office, piss in his bin and set the place on fire and still not get fired.

yes its a joke but it goes to show how serious messing with stuff like that it.

check with HR is it a title change due to any reason or call NERA to make sure.

Ha! Ha! I'll test this out tomorrow. ;o) You will probably see me on the 9 o'clock news!

I should clarify - I just moved to a different area within the same overall team. I didn't apply for the role. I was assigned the role upon my return.

Whereisgerry?

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Would they not need to give you a new contract if they are changing the title of the role stated in your current contract?

No new contract- not even a mention of it.

Whereisgerry?

davo10 wrote: »

It is not illegal to demote you, it is illegal to demote you because you were pregnant. The fact that you moved teams (you left that out of the opening post) would seem to muddy the waters a little, did you apply for the move and are you the senior person on the new team or, was there already a senior person in this new team and you are under her/him?

Its illegal to give a woman a lesser role upon return from mat leave. I did not apply for the role. Theres some senior & some junior people on the team. We all report to the same manager.

Just to be clear - I stayed in the same overall team. I have the same management. I just moved to another area within the overall team.

ligerdub

This doesn't sound great.

Having said that though, in my last job there was somebody who moved from a position of "Head of Section" in a section of uhhhhh 4 people.....to a Senior Analyst (number 2) in a team of 12. They weren't demoted or perceived to have lost status though.

There's not enough here for anyone here to know, but it doesn't sound like something you should let slide. You should be given the chance for a conversation to have this explained to you.

On the plus side here, if you have been demoted but you haven't seen a change in pay and conditions, doesn't this give you leverage should a chance for a promotion to senior again come up in terms of your salary?