Is it possible to complain?

allibastor

I have just found out via property price Register that a house i bid on during Summer was sold in August for 20K less than my last bid.

But to Top it all off, estate agent i was bidding with was up in the house over weekend for the new neighbours house warming. She activly made an effort to avoid me.
Found out she is good friends with chap who bought the house.

Is it possible to complain about this? House was a bank sale

John_Rambo

You must be absolutely fuming, that's downright theft. I'd call you're solicitor that did your conveyance.

I was selling a house a few years ago and some wideboy estate agent called in and basically told me he had a buyer sorted for me and I wouldn't get much more than what he was offering. I went with another estate agent and it sold for a lot more.

Henry94

It would certainly be worth a chat with your solicitor and I'm sure the seller would be interested to know.

Needles73

allibastor wrote: »

I have just found out via property price Register that a house i bid on during Summer was sold in August for 20K less than my last bid.

But to Top it all off, estate agent i was bidding with was up in the house over weekend for the new neighbours house warming. She activly made an effort to avoid me.
Found out she is good friends with chap who bought the house.

Is it possible to complain about this? House was a bank sale

I wouldn't let this go. I'd be livid

allibastor

Needles73 wrote: »

I wouldn't let this go. I'd be livid

What can be done. I am absolutly livid

CollyFlower

I'd also let the bank know.

endacl

allibastor wrote: »

What can be done. I am absolutly livid

I'd contact the bank, and let them be absolutely livid too. Then I'd let them contact the lady's employer. I'd imagine whoever she worked for will be interested to hear how she did them out of a nice lump of commission to do her pal a favour. To be on the safe side, I'd contact the agency myself as well. To let them know how livid they should be.

If I had the time, and was feeling particularly vindictive, I'd find a few houses on her list and drop a note in the door addressed to 'the owner', explaining what she'd done before.

SteelyDanJalapeno

I'd be livid

allibastor

I have just gone back through my emails and found the email stating that my bid wasnt highest.

Can people lie with property price register

Gumbo

OP, have you got proof that your offer was received and ignored/refused by the agent?

loyatemu

Do you have written evidence of your higher bid? I doubt you personally have any comeback, but if you have evidence you might be able to cause trouble for her. Possibly the sellers could sue the Estate Agent - she's supposed to work for them, not her mates.

Pkiernan

The estate agent has likely defrauded the seller. You should report this in writing.

April 73

The price on the propert price register is put there by the solicitor acting for the purchaser. I can't see the solicitor lying.

OP you have proof in the email that you were told that you weren't the highest bidder. The house subsequently sold for significantly less. Sounds dodgy to me.

myshirt

If it's a bank sale, the receiver or mortgagee in possession have an obligation to get the best price. So they may be in hot water.

Were you or your solicitor in any way awkward in how you went about your affairs? Were you creating any barriers to sale? Could you close the deal in time?

Critically, had you hard cash or a mortgage? Because trust me with some of the banks I dealt with, the properties had to go warts and all, such was the way they'd bollixed the mortgage documents in the first place, thus a cash buyer was seen as a more practical and viable option than getting tangled up with a leveraged buyer and their solicitor.

Also take into account there may be vat in play here, which would not show up in the radar.

Or it could be a scumbag of an auctioneer, I've seen it happen, most recently with an auctioneer come councillor in the West of Ireland.

DellyBelly

I'd be livid. Sounds like a bit of brown envelope stuff

athtrasna

Is the PPR the full sale price? Didn't think it was?

beveragelady

Was there any land at all with the house? As far as I know in cases where there is then the price of the house alone is on the property price register, even if they were for sale as one lot. The house I bought is on the PPR for 27k less than I paid for it because it is on a large site. I don't know what the cut-off is, when it stops being a 'site' and becomes 'land'.

allibastor

myshirt wrote: »

If it's a bank sale, the receiver or mortgagee in possession have an obligation to get the best price. So they may be in hot water.

Were you or your solicitor in any way awkward in how you went about your affairs? Were you creating any barriers to sale? Could you close the deal in time?

Critically, had you hard cash or a mortgage? Because trust me with some of the banks I dealt with, the properties had to go warts and all, such was the way they'd bollixed the mortgage documents in the first place, thus a cash buyer was seen as a more practical and viable option than getting tangled up with a leveraged buyer and their solicitor.

Also take into account there may be vat in play here, which would not show up in the radar.

Or it could be a scumbag of an auctioneer, I've seen it happen, most recently with an auctioneer come councillor in the West of Ireland.

The new neighbour is a young Single guy who bought with a mortgage. He put in his offer well before mine.
I was same boat, mortgage and approval so dont think it was that.

It just seems low, i remember on daft the house sale closing and saying it went for asking, not 20 below.

allibastor

beveragelady wrote: »

Was there any land at all with the house? As far as I know in cases where there is then the price of the house alone is on the property price register, even if they were for sale as one lot. The house I bought is on the PPR for 27k less than I paid for it because ie is on a large site. I don't know what the cut-off is, when it stops being a 'site' and becomes 'land'.

No land, its in am estate.

myshirt

Highlight it to the ODCE my friend, sounds like they pulled a fast one.

irishgrover

ffs, if true and accurate this must be illegal*

*uneducated opinion/expectation as opposed to legal atement

Bells21

Was it a new build house? As far as I know the prices for newly built houses that show up on the register don't include the vat.

davindub

allibastor wrote: »

I have just found out via property price Register that a house i bid on during Summer was sold in August for 20K less than my last bid.

But to Top it all off, estate agent i was bidding with was up in the house over weekend for the new neighbours house warming. She activly made an effort to avoid me.
Found out she is good friends with chap who bought the house.

Is it possible to complain about this? House was a bank sale

no regulations on accepting the highest bid, it's not even an auction where they state their rules as part of the sale agreement. They can accept lower cash only offers, offers from friends, etc. So no legal recourse you can take unfortunately.

But let everyone you know about the EA, just don't deal with them ever again and hope everyone else does the same.

allibastor

House was second hand, in an estate.
Bank sale, in occiopied for 2 years.

Guy bought it with a mortgage. I know it was from county council, if that makes a difference.

Boards rules wont let me name and shame

Tigger

April 73 wrote: »

The price on the propert price register is put there by the solicitor acting for the purchaser. I can't see the solicitor lying.

OP you have proof in the email that you were told that you weren't the highest bidder. The house subsequently sold for significantly less. Sounds dodgy to me.

could there have been cash involved?
a house near me sold a price + cash for banking reasons.
edit no cash if it was the co co so it was defrauding the council by the ea
you soo should follow up on this

Rackstar

Relax this could be easily explained. I've seen sale agreed, survey done, survey throws up 20/30k of work that needs to be done. Sale agreed price is renegotiated taking into account what was found on the survey.

dudara

Lodge a complaint with the Property Services Regulatory Authority. Estate agents are obliged to maintain a register of all offers on a property.

davindub

allibastor wrote: »

House was second hand, in an estate.
Bank sale, in occiopied for 2 years.

Guy bought it with a mortgage. I know it was from county council, if that makes a difference.

Boards rules wont let me name and shame

Just saying, the highest bid is not always the one accepted.

I am purchasing a house and it is a horrible process so you have my sympathies. There was one house I wanted to view that was apparently being sold by a bank and the EA hadn't the keys, so it was not possible to view. When I rang a couple of weeks later it was sale agreed, so i'd imagine it does happen that EA's sell to people they know.

Gumbo

athtrasna wrote: »

Is the PPR the full sale price? Didn't think it was?

Second hand homes are full price. New builds are Ex-VAT on the PPR.

John_Rambo

davindub wrote: »

no regulations on accepting the highest bid, it's not even an auction where they state their rules as part of the sale agreement. They can accept lower cash only offers, offers from friends, etc. So no legal recourse you can take unfortunately.

But let everyone you know about the EA, just don't deal with them ever again and hope everyone else does the same.

I have my head in my hands now. Thanks for the info though.

allibastor

Other than mates rates i dont really know whats up with it.

Just a pain as even at asking it was good value, and my bid was at asking.

Alkers

John_Rambo wrote:

I have my head in my hands now. Thanks for the info though.

The bank aren't likely to be happy with this arrangement though!

allibastor

Simona1986 wrote: »

The bank aren't likely to be happy with this arrangement though!

Dont know what bank it is with, but i dont know at this stage if it would help. I imagine any offers would be "lost" if someone went looking.

SB_Part2

Maybe their bid was higher than yours but after a structural survey they negotiated less?

allibastor

SB_Part2 wrote: »

Maybe their bid was higher than yours but after a structural survey they negotiated less?

Not sure on this, i was chatting to the guy this morning, he did indeed bid his normal offer. He was told he was only bidder, which he found odd

Mrs OBumble

Do you have any proof that it's the EA's doing, and now the previous owner?

Maybe the seller didn't want to accept your bid. There are estates where it happens - sellers actively try to get someone their neighbours will approve of.

Agree it's less likely than the case that the EA just did their mate a favour. But it can happen. And as someone said, unless public money is involved, there's no legal requirement to accept the highest - or any - bid.

allibastor

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Do you have any proof that it's the EA's doing, and now the previous owner?

Maybe the seller didn't want to accept your bid. There are estates where it happens - sellers actively try to get someone their neighbours will approve of.

Agree it's less likely than the case that the EA just did their mate a favour. But it can happen. And as someone said, unless public money is involved, there's no legal requirement to accept the highest - or any - bid.

Hi,
I already live in the estate, house opposite. I know the sellers well enough, they have moved abroad in the last 2 years. They knew about my bid as I had emailed a copy of CC to them on it. I have sent an email asking them if they were told I pulled out, as another neighbor who speaks to them often said they were surprised my name wasnt on the deeds.

Jet Black

If it was a bank sale they owners would have zero input apart from signing the deeds over when closing.

The situation does sound suspect. When I bought from a bank my solicitor said the price is non negotiable. If I found faults with the property and wanted the price lowered I couldn't. I would have to walk away and the next bidder would get the house. I was told this is standard for the bank I was buying from.

OscarBluth

We recently bought after a year looking and out of interest I looked up the PPR for three properties we'd been the underbidders on.

All three went for less than we'd offered, most in the 10-20k range, which startled me. But then, we got our house for 5k less than we went sale agreed at - in our case, the survey came up with 40k more work than we anticipated, we tried to negotiate harder but they said the house clearly needed work (true, we just hadn't thought it was that much work) and they wouldn't drop any more off.

All these houses went for circa 50-70k+ initial asking, so maybe they were more flexible negotiating as a result but it seems to be more common than you'd expect.

One I was quite annoyed by though - it went sale agreed for 30k under what we had bid on, which I imagine was the result of a survey. However, we had family who were able to give us quite a clear idea of how much work was needed, which informed our highest bid as we were factoring in the cost of that work. I feel with a drop that considerable, maybe they should go back to previous bidders. But then, that would defeat the purpose of going sale agreed.

Its a difficult situation, but it isn't necessarily a dodgy one. In this instance, I would be tempted to approach the bank again though just to be sure.

Tefral

If the Estate Agent is a member of the Society of Chartered Surveyors they would be very interested in this.

They are actively stamping out irregularities in the Property Sectors.

The Society of Chartered
Surveyors Ireland
38 Merrion Square
Dublin 2:

Tel: (01) 6445500
Email: info@scsi.ie
Web: www.scsi.ie

crazyderk

A neighbor of mine sold their apt and all their furniture for 150K. it then went on the price property register for 120K because thats how they split the deal.

Could it be something like this?

jimmycrackcorm

Jet Black wrote:

If it was a bank sale they owners would have zero input apart from signing the deeds over when closing.

If it was a forced bank sale then it's likely there is negative equity involved that the owners might owe the bank. So they may indeed have an interest in an under priced sale.

Senna

Your bid and email could easily be disregarded by the estate agent as "That person lived across the road, they were attempting to disrupt/delay the sale as he doesn't want anyone moving in across the road, he was wasting my time and from meeting him in person X amount of times, I believe that he never actually intended to complete the sale, for the reason I disregarded his bids."

Your word against his and he will win.

mel123

As other posters have said, there is a number of reasons why it could have went sale agreed under your offer, and then there are suspicions of reasons why it went under your offer also.
I would start with the estate agent, id call in or phone them, and just simply ask them and see what they say and go from there before lodging complaints etc.
Dont mean to rub salt in the wound, but such a pity you didnt know the neighbour was putting the house up for sale and you could have just dealt direct with the neighbour. Something like this happened to be before, i was raging, didnt even get the house in the end!

Shelflife

Interesting thread, I was the underbidder in a similar (Bank) sale. My last bid was €174, I was told that there was a bid of €176 then put on it.

I checked the property reg and the sale price is €170.

themusicman

Just 1 point to be aware of the possibility...I know because i was that soldier

A property i was bidding on went for under my final bid....BUT when my last bid was rejected i did inform the estate agent that i was out.....and therefore they didnt contact me again..

you may argue that they should have...but they may argue that i had indicated i was no longer interested...

Just a possible explanation

But doesnt change the horrible feeling

q85dw7osi4lebg

In some instances, if an issue is found with the house after survey, a reduction can be offered by the vendor (and often is) to ensure the deal completes.

allibastor

Thanks for the posts.

I checked with agent today, house was sold for as is price in register. The estate agent i dealt with no longer works there, has moved to a new place.

Estate agent company had no idea of my bid, as far as records show only one bid was made, which was succesful one.They will be looking into it.

House was a bank sale, but all bank sales unless reposessions need owner to accept. Owners were told i dropped out.

I have a string of 14 emails for viewing, 2nd viewing and offer, then follow up to offer.

allibastor

Jet Black wrote: »

If it was a bank sale they owners would have zero input apart from signing the deeds over when closing.

The situation does sound suspect. When I bought from a bank my solicitor said the price is non negotiable. If I found faults with the property and wanted the price lowered I couldn't. I would have to walk away and the next bidder would get the house. I was told this is standard for the bank I was buying from.

Price is AMV which is average market value, but is negotiable, your solicitir sounds bad

Senna

allibastor wrote: »

Thanks for the posts.

I checked with agent today, house was sold for as is price in register. The estate agent i dealt with no longer works there, has moved to a new place.

Estate agent company had no idea of my bid, as far as records show only one bid was made, which was succesful one.They will be looking into it.

House was a bank sale, but all bank sales unless reposessions need owner to accept. Owners were told i dropped out.

I have a string of 14 emails for viewing, 2nd viewing and offer, then follow up to offer.

What do you want to happen now? Do you want to pursue the EA in some way, get them sacked from their current employer? Blacklisted from the business?
If the estate agent is your neighbors friend, are you likely to run into him often, what will your relationship be like with the neighbor?

allibastor

Senna wrote: »

What do you want to happen now? Do you want to pursue the EA in some way, get them sacked from their current employer? Blacklisted from the business?
If the estate agent is your neighbors friend, are you likely to run into him often, what will your relationship be like with the neighbor?

I dont want them sacked, but i want it officially acknowladged that they had been in contact with regular emails and an official offer which they ignored.
It wont change the house being sold but maybe for one EA at least it will bring a focus on them needing to act in a proper manner.
Its been pointed out in multiple threads how bad EA can act.