BMW 530e

cros13

BMW 530e was just launched with the new G30 5 Series.

Arrives in March, priced in Ireland just below the 520d.

Real world electric range of ~30-35km (rated 45km on NEDC). If your commute is inside this you'll be able to commute every day for less than 50c of nightsaver electricity.
9.6kWh battery (1.8kWh more then the 330e, mainly to compensate for the heavier car, using newer PHEV cells from Samsung SDI)
0-100km/h in 5.9 seconds
135kW combustion engine
70kW electric motor (5kW more than the 330e with 40Nm more torque)

carsfan2

I haven't seen the prices for this listed anywhere although other models are up.
Are you sure it's available in March?
I wonder if it will be popular here?
If there are waiting lists like there are for 330e across Europe might have a long lead time.

cros13

carsfan2 wrote: »

I haven't seen the prices for this listed anywhere although other models are up.
Are you sure it's available in March?

Spoke to someone in Joe Duffy. The guidance their giving is first deliveries at the end of March and pricing just below the 520d after the grants.

carsfan2 wrote: »

I wonder if it will be popular here?

For people with commute inside the electric range you'd have to be an idiot to buy any 5-series but the 530e, especially at that price. Though there are rumors the 540e might have a slightly higher capacity battery, it's probably going to be a fair bit more expensive.

carsfan2 wrote: »

If there are waiting lists like there are for 330e across Europe might have a long lead time.

I'd anticipate them being thin on the ground until late in the year. Samsung only started low volume production of the new cells in July/August and they'll be heavily production constrained well into the new year.

homer90

cros13 wrote: »

using newer PHEV cells from Samsung SDI)

:eek:

cros13

homer90 wrote: »

:eek:

Different division of the company... All BMW EVs and PHEVs use Samung SDI cells. Automotive cells are also much more conservatively engineered.

mickdw

And Boeing 787 dreamliner batteries would have been engineered to the highest standard available and still took fire.

cros13

mickdw wrote: »

And Boeing 787 dreamliner batteries would have been engineered to the highest standard available and still took fire.

EVs are five times less likely to go on fire than a combustion engined vehicle. It's extremely rare even though the media seizes on it because it's a new technology.

Heck I've passed 3 combustion vehicles in flames on my commute this year alone.

James Bond Junior

Are there plans for a 7 series equivalent?

Edit: yes there is.

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-bmw-740e-plug-in-hybrid-first-drive-review

cros13

James Bond Junior wrote: »

Are there plans for a 7 series equivalent?

Was launched last year. 740e.

James Bond Junior

cros13 wrote: »

Was launched last year. 740e.

I googled after I posted. A 2.0 litre. Things like that make baby Jesus cry.

Seweryn

James Bond Junior wrote: »

I googled after I posted. A 2.0 litre. Things like that make baby Jesus cry.

Yeah, but at least it is a straight six. That makes all the difference .


Only joking...

cros13

BMWs current plan is to PHEV the whole range and up the NEDC rated EV range to 100km by 2020.

They've lost a lot of good engineers from the BMWi division due to hesitation about going full EV. They slowed down their pure EV plans considerably due to conflict among board members which wasn't resolved until this month.

The electric powertrain in the PHEVs is just an off the shelf job bought in as part of the gearbox from ZF. Has a programmable power output up to 90kW.

mickdw

cros13 wrote: »

EVs are five times less likely to go on fire than a combustion engined vehicle. It's extremely rare even though the media seizes on it because it's a new technology.

Heck I've passed 3 combustion vehicles in flames on my commute this year alone.

You post screams of being an EV defender at all costs, while ignoring some obvious points.
Firstly what are the percentages of ev versus combustion engine cars you see on commute? Having a fair idea of the answer, I would be rather worried if you were seeing ev on fire.
Secondly we are talking about 530e which has both the combustion engine and the EV systems on board so does this qualify as a super safe ev or a death trap spontaneously combusting combustion engine vehicle that you might see on fire on your commute?

The fact remains that the battery tech is not bulletproof at this time. Sure boeing had more issues in terms of weight control but no doubt the car manufacturers are pushing to save every kg possible too.
Don't get me wrong. Love the idea of the 530e and will possibly buy one.

cros13

mickdw wrote: »

You post screams of being an EV defender at all costs, while ignoring some obvious points.
Firstly what are the percentages of ev versus combustion engine cars you see on commute? Having a fair idea of the answer, I would be rather worried if you were seeing ev on fire.

I gave a statistic based on US NFPA vehicle fire statistics for 2015.
While I gave an anecdote it was to illustrate the difference in media reporting of combustion vehicle fires (which have become routine enough that local news doesn't report them) and EV fires (in which the rare issues are reported by global media).

mickdw wrote: »

Secondly we are talking about 530e which has both the combustion engine and the EV systems on board so does this qualify as a super safe ev or a death trap spontaneously combusting combustion engine vehicle that you might see on fire on your commute?

To a certain extent it has the combined risks and maintainance issues of both powertrains. Though PHEV packs are more conservatively engineered and in use also face more conservative depth of discharge. The ZF gearbox has some design features that reduce some of the maintenance risks as well.

mickdw wrote: »

The fact remains that the battery tech is not bulletproof at this time. Sure boeing had more issues in terms of weight control but no doubt the car manufacturers are pushing to save every kg possible too.
Don't get me wrong. Love the idea of the 530e and will possibly buy one

Sure... and it will probably never be bulletproof, especially since that would be puncture damage . I'm just saying:

1. automotive lithium cells are not directly comparable to cells used for consumer electronics in either longevity or safety. Boeing bought a small production run battery that had manufacturing defects, it wasn't a problem inherent to the technology or the battery chemistry they used.

2. risk of fire is comparable to or lower than a combustion vehicle. If you didn't worry about this issue for a vehicle hauling 50-80 liters of highly flammable liquid you probably shouldn't be especially worried about an EV catching fire.

mickdw

All fair comment although I don't think I'd travel on a dreamliner just yet.

James Bond Junior

Was up in my local BMW dealer with someone looking to drive a 7er. We would know the staff/owner very well but that's an aside. One of the salesmen reckoned the 330e is one of the greatest cars he has driven and that the 530e will be a stonker altogether.

mickdw

Still 95 percent 520d will be sold here.

James Bond Junior

mickdw wrote: »

Still 95 percent 520d will be sold here.

If the 530e is coming in cheaper than a 520d after the grant it may steal a good portion. The Irish motoring public are beginning to see that daysul isn't all it's cracked up to be. Dpfs, dmfs, injectors etc etc

bazz26

A fair percentage of 520d are middle management company cars as there are tax benefits to companies, that will not change with a PHEV option. PHEV is also not suit people who commute long distances at present.

carsfan2

530e could be a great buy for a private urban user looking for an executive car.
I believe the 330e allocation for Ireland was limited enough so if it is the same for 530e these might be hard to get a good deal on initially if they prove popular.

Atlantic Dawn

Looks great.

Toyota may have shot themselves in the foot sharing the hybrid technology with BMW in exchange for the BMW diesel know how.

mickdw

carsfan2 wrote: »

530e could be a great buy for a private urban user looking for an executive car.
I believe the 330e allocation for Ireland was limited enough so if it is the same for 530e these might be hard to get a good deal on initially if they prove popular.

I am rural and live 6 miles from local town. Generally end up doing 2 trips to town per day and a 100 mile round trip once per week. Maybe 12k miles per year.
I'm fairly confident that one of these would be ideal. My daily routine would be largely electric if I wanted it to be although no doubt I would using too much acceleration for that to work out.
Still even on the days I do the 100 mile round trip, there is a street charge point that would suit so that would probably average out at a very low cost for that journey too.
I'm currently spending about 300 per month on petrol. Good savings possible I'd say.

James Bond Junior

mickdw wrote: »

I am rural and live 6 miles from local town. Generally end up doing 2 trips to town per day and a 100 mile round trip once per week. Maybe 12k miles per year.
I'm fairly confident that one of these would be ideal. My daily routine would be largely electric if I wanted it to be although no doubt I would using too much acceleration for that to work out.
Still even on the days I do the 100 mile round trip, there is a street charge point that would suit so that would probably average out at a very low cost for that journey too.
I'm currently spending about 300 per month on petrol. Good savings possible I'd say.

Salesman I was chatting to today was telling me about the 330e he sold. It does a 40 mile round trip commute and more often than not the petrol engine only kicks in a small few miles before the owner gets home. I do a 60 mile round trip and if I had the money I'd definitely be tempted.

carsfan2

I've a 330e and with a round trip to work of 35 miles daily and a few more longer trips I'm spending about a third of what I used to on fuel when running a mark 7 golf gti pp. now I have a few thousand Kms up the engine is getting more frugal.
Problem is the car is so quick and smooth I find myself putting the foot down more than before!performance is exceptional considering the economy possible but you must plug in regularly to get the benefits.
I guess the 530e will be super too and more refined and luxurious at the same time.

Blazer

carsfan2 wrote: »

I've a 330e and with a round trip to work of 35 miles daily and a few more longer trips I'm spending about a third of what I used to on fuel when running a mark 7 golf gti pp. now I have a few thousand Kms up the engine is getting more frugal.
Problem is the car is so quick and smooth I find myself putting the foot down more than before!performance is exceptional considering the economy possible but you must plug in regularly to get the benefits.
I guess the 530e will be super too and more refined and luxurious at the same time.

I'm very tempted by the 530e. There probably won't be a touring version so will probably just hold off for another year or so till the kids are that little bit bigger where I don't have to carry most of the baby associated crap around.
I've love the 330e and it's on my list

freddieot

Anyone work out how much it costs to fully charge one of these, at home, standard plug etc. ?

650Ginge

Atlantic Dawn wrote: »

Looks great.

Toyota may have shot themselves in the foot sharing the hybrid technology with BMW in exchange for the BMW diesel know how.

Toyota sold 9million cars in 2015.

Bmw and mini 2.1miliion.

Toyota will be just fine.

530e is going to do very well for bmw. Especially if less than a 520d.

Oafley Jones

650Ginge wrote: »

Toyota sold 9million cars in 2015.

Bmw and mini 2.1miliion.

Toyota will be just fine.

530e is going to do very well for bmw. Especially if less than a 520d.

Ya, but this really would undercut Lexus' hybrid selling point. I could see an erosion of their already small sales.

stesaurus

freddieot wrote: »

Anyone work out how much it costs to fully charge one of these, at home, standard plug etc. ?

Its a 9.6kwh battery. How much do you pay for electricity per kw?

mickdw

freddieot wrote: »

Anyone work out how much it costs to fully charge one of these, at home, standard plug etc. ?

9.6 units needed to charge. 9 per unit on night meter = 86c
Extra standing charge for night meter can be 200 per year or 55 per day so realistically €1.40 all in for a full charge daily.

cros13

mickdw wrote: »

9.6 units needed to charge. 9 per unit on night meter = 86c
Extra standing charge for night meter can be 200 per year or 55 per day so realistically €1.40 all in for a full charge daily.

Well in fairness while the PHEV pack capacity is 9.6kWh you'll only see it discharge ~7kWh at most with the bottom 20-30% and top 2-5% never touched. Then add 10% for charging losses.

Also with the nightsaver you'd not just be dropping the unit rate at night for the car alone, your existing usage during the nightsaver hours also drops to the lower unit rate.

The end result is that if you are a typical Irish household and 30% of your existing loads or loads you will move with timers etc are during the nightsaver hours you'll make the standing charge back before you even add charging the car. Extra standing charge for the night-saver is usually only €50/annually not €200.

I spend about €1.40 in unit price for my 22kWh pack so I think it's unlikely a 9.6kWh pack would cost much more than ~60-70c on the night rate (I pay 6.86c/unit on discounted rate).

cros13

mickdw wrote: »

Still 95 percent 520d will be sold here.

Even with the country production allocation having been reached (and delivery dates now 6 months away for orders placed today) the 330e is making up ~30% of 3-series registration since the first ones arrived.

carsfan2

Are those Irish registration figures?
30 per cent of Irish 3 series are 330e.

cros13

carsfan2 wrote: »

Are those Irish registration figures?
30 per cent of Irish 3 series are 330e.

Yup, from SIMI, ~30%. Total registrations including imports. The numbers for August for example were 21 330e registered out of 72 3-series sales and imports.

wotswattage

How do Phevs fare in terms of switching over to the IC engine when the engine is unused/cold?

For example I start my drive on the battery, drive 5km and then want to ovetake/accelerate something. Will the engine fluids be cold at this point and potentially cause damage?

I love the idea of one!

Marcusm

bazz26 wrote: »

A fair percentage of 520d are middle management company cars as there are tax benefits to companies, that will not change with a PHEV option. PHEV is also not suit people who commute long distances at present.

Those are precisely the cars which are swapping over to PHEV in the UK because of the vastly reduced BIK tax charge for the drivers. The same is less likely to happen here as there is no linkage between the CO2 rating and the BIK level. It does, however, mean a raft of PHEVs coming off UK leases in 3 years time. That's when I'll pick up an XC90 T8 and retire my v8!

cros13

wotswattage wrote: »

How do Phevs fare in terms of switching over to the IC engine when the engine is unused/cold?

For example I start my drive on the battery, drive 5km and then want to ovetake/accelerate something. Will the engine fluids be cold at this point and potentially cause damage?

I love the idea of one!

From what I understand the first time the ICE needs to start it stays on until everything is warmed up.

mickdw

cros13 wrote: »

From what I understand the first time the ICE needs to start it stays on until everything is warmed up.

Is it possible that the electric motor is liquid cooled and cooled by the same coolant as the engine and so then at least the engine would be partially warmed even when in electric mode.

cros13

mickdw wrote: »

Is it possible that the electric motor is liquid cooled and cooled by the same coolant as the engine and so then at least the engine would be partially warmed even when in electric mode.

I don't think so, the electric motor in the 330e, 530e and 740e is cooled by atomized oil that AFAIR just transfers heat from the motor to the outer casing of the transmission.

There's not a lot of heat involved due to the thermal efficiency of the electric motor. On many BEVs which are pushing 1.2 - 1.6 tons at up to 160km/h the motor is just cooled by ambient air.

useless

Read in CAR magazine today that the new 5 can take 3 child seats in the back... a Touring would surely be a nicer option than some MPVs that folk are forced into buying when they've a small brood.