Team Hope, is someone making major profit?

caoimhe93

Hi, so from i was around 10 I had always sent a shoebox to Team Hope for the shoebox appeal, filled with goodies and whatnot for poor kids. When I was 17 I did work placement in a sorting house for said company, I loved it. There was just something so rewarding about putting in hours on end to filling shoeboxes and sorting other shoeboxes out for kids less fortunate. Last year I seen the price had went up from €3 to €4, that was such an off put for me, because from working in the sorting house, I had seen how the sorters cut corners and literally make AS MANY shoeboxes as possible. What you would manage to put into 1 shoebox, with the right thinking, you could make that stretch to 4 or 5 shoeboxes! For example, 1 pack of coloring pencils, a 48 pack can be divided up so theres 6 colors in each shoebox. coloring books can sometimes be divided up between 2/3 boxes. With this in mind, I would make a huge haul through the year, and make overall around 8/10 shoeboxes, one year i managed to make 15 when i was financially in a good place! However, both last year and this year I am not quite in that place, and it had me thinking, why are Team Hope putting the prices up? I have seen before posts saying for the likes of these organisations some lurry companies either transport these over for free or else at a very little cost, the people in the sorting houses are volunteers, the only thing i can think of is for fuel for traveling round collecting the shoeboxes. I really want to be involved this year in some way but I cant afford 4 euros per shoebox plus i dont want to be took for a fool over my generosity.
Because of not being able to afford the 4 euro each, I have also thought about volunteering in the warehouses this year to help out, but like i said above, I dont want to be took for a fool over trying to help out a origination when I am questioning this all. Does anyone have any insight? Any opinions?

jenny smith

caoimhe93 wrote: »

Hi, so from i was around 10 I had always sent a shoebox to Team Hope for the shoebox appeal, filled with goodies and whatnot for poor kids. When I was 17 I did work placement in a sorting house for said company, I loved it. There was just something so rewarding about putting in hours on end to filling shoeboxes and sorting other shoeboxes out for kids less fortunate. Last year I seen the price had went up from €3 to €4, that was such an off put for me, because from working in the sorting house, I had seen how the sorters cut corners and literally make AS MANY shoeboxes as possible. What you would manage to put into 1 shoebox, with the right thinking, you could make that stretch to 4 or 5 shoeboxes! For example, 1 pack of coloring pencils, a 48 pack can be divided up so theres 6 colors in each shoebox. coloring books can sometimes be divided up between 2/3 boxes. With this in mind, I would make a huge haul through the year, and make overall around 8/10 shoeboxes, one year i managed to make 15 when i was financially in a good place! However, both last year and this year I am not quite in that place, and it had me thinking, why are Team Hope putting the prices up? I have seen before posts saying for the likes of these organisations some lurry companies either transport these over for free or else at a very little cost, the people in the sorting houses are volunteers, the only thing i can think of is for fuel for traveling round collecting the shoeboxes. I really want to be involved this year in some way but I cant afford 4 euros per shoebox plus i dont want to be took for a fool over my generosity.
Because of not being able to afford the 4 euro each, I have also thought about volunteering in the warehouses this year to help out, but like i said above, I dont want to be took for a fool over trying to help out a origination when I am questioning this all. Does anyone have any insight? Any opinions?

CEO 67,000 euro. That is a lot of shoe boxes
https://www.teamhope.ie/about-us/faqs/

ScumLord

caoimhe93 wrote: »

Last year I seen the price had went up from €3 to €4, that was such an off put for me, because from working in the sorting house, I had seen how the sorters cut corners and literally make AS MANY shoeboxes as possible. What you would manage to put into 1 shoebox, with the right thinking, you could make that stretch to 4 or 5 shoeboxes!

I can see why they might want to do that. Some people may be more generous than others and they probably want to make it fair for the kids receiving the box. I could imagine that these boxes aren't going to individuals as much as maybe a school class. It wouldn't be nice to bring boxes and not have enough for everybody. It also wouldn't be nice if one or two kids got a really good box, it might ruin the experience for the others.

The price going up isn't surprising, costs go up all the time, especially in the transport industry. This also may have something to do with what's in the box, transport companies will charge you based on either the size of the box or the weight of the box, whichever tots up to more money is what they'll charge you.

I'd imagine there's a lot of organisation and red tape to get through, charities don't like putting up their price, they know they're begging and don't want to make their job any harder, or put people off.

jenny smith

ScumLord wrote: »

I can see why they might want to do that. Some people may be more generous than others and they probably want to make it fair for the kids receiving the box. I could imagine that these boxes aren't going to individuals as much as maybe a school class. It wouldn't be nice to bring boxes and not have enough for everybody. It also wouldn't be nice if one or two kids got a really good box, it might ruin the experience for the others.

The price going up isn't surprising, costs go up all the time, especially in the transport industry. This also may have something to do with what's in the box, transport companies will charge you based on either the size of the box or the weight of the box, whichever tots up to more money is what they'll charge you.

I'd imagine there's a lot of organisation and red tape to get through, charities don't like putting up their price, they know they're begging and don't want to make their job any harder, or put people off.

If i were you OP I would find some way to give direct to those you want to support and bypass 'charities' with chiefs on big bucks

Subcomandante Marcos

jenny smith wrote: »

If i were you OP I would find some way to give direct to those you want to support and bypass 'charities' with chiefs on big bucks

You think €67.7k before before tax is "big bucks" to run an international charity?


It's pittance considering the work involved and the skills needed.

jenny smith

Subcomandante Marcos wrote: »

You think €67.7k before before tax is "big bucks" to run an international charity?


It's pittance considering the work involved and the skills needed.

I would not give any money to any such 'charity' i would give it direct to someone deserving if i wanted to give

ScumLord

jenny smith wrote: »

I would not give any money to any such 'charity' i would give it direct to someone deserving if i wanted to give

So you fly to Africa and find a deserving child?

Directing a charity is a hard, full time job, it requires a certain level of skills to compete for people's attention these days. If the charity wants to be effective it makes sense to hire someone who's competent to make sure the charity is actually doing what it wants to do efficiently.

The person doing the job obviously can't afford to do it for free if they're doing it full time. I know there have been loads of scandals about highly paid CEOs, but if they achieve the charity's goals some of them may be worth their pay packet. CEO's are a tool used by businesses to achieve goals.

caoimhe93

On the website I seen they have the Audited accounts, this has really opened my eyes to be honest. I cant post a link on here because i am new to boards. But i Urge everyone to check it out! They say in the FAQ section both "What is your CEO’s salary ?
His salary is €67,700 per annum.", "Does he receive any other benefits ?
No." and "Are your Directors paid Directors fees or any other benefits ?
All our directors are volunteers and do not receive any fees or benefits."

HOWEVER, from seeing the Accounts of 2015/2016 ( again cant post a link but check it out on the website, its all there under the " About Us" tab) The Shoebox appeal alone last year made over 4.5mil euro, 300k euro went towards " Managment and administration expenses" and a further 430k went towards " direct charitable expenditure",

They have a breakdown further down the page with saying that €10k went to travel, understandable, im happy to see that people doing good dont have to be paying through the nose to simply go to help, €8k bank charges, €2k insurance, €38 office expenses, and €268k staff costs! If the CEO is the ONLY person getting money, and just €60k, no other benefits as stated in the FAQ area, where is the other €208k?! This has definitely put me off this all! I defineatly agree with Jenny on this, I wont be donating this year, I will be giving to someone locally I know, or better yet, keep my money until the "charitable season" is over and help someone else out in the middle of 2017. Honestly cant believe all these high numbers and no idea where the money goes

ScumLord

Wages are nearly always the biggest cost in any business. Often by a large margin, people are expensive. 200K could be around 8 or 9 other people on a standard enough wage.

The CEO also isn't the only person getting paid, the accounts you mention says they have 6 staff members some full time some part time.

There's nothing in those accounts that seems untowards.

jenny smith

ScumLord wrote: »

So you fly to Africa and find a deserving child?

Directing a charity is a hard, full time job, it requires a certain level of skills to compete for people's attention these days. If the charity wants to be effective it makes sense to hire someone who's competent to make sure the charity is actually doing what it wants to do efficiently.

The person doing the job obviously can't afford to do it for free if they're doing it full time. I know there have been loads of scandals about highly paid CEOs, but if they achieve the charity's goals some of them may be worth their pay packet. CEO's are a tool used by businesses to achieve goals.

No poor children in Ireland?

Though I would not be giving to SVP or Barnardos for same reason. OP find some is poor and needy and buy them something they need. You could also find people who need to attend hospitals and pay fro their B&B room if they or parent need to stay. There are lots of ways to give without lining the pockets of 'charity bosses'. They make me sick with their PR speak and greed as did the guy i heard from some age charity' complaining about the welfare pension debacle on radio. Another soft job PR merchant

ScumLord

jenny smith wrote: »

There are lots of ways to give without lining the pockets of 'charity bosses'. They make me sick with their PR speak and greed as did the guy i heard from some age charity' complaining about the welfare pension debacle on radio. Another soft job PR merchant

So your tarring all charities with the actions of a few high profile cases?

It seems they've spent around 4 million on the shoeboxes amongst other things. At a cost of around €300,000. If you believe you have a cheaper way of achieving the same thing you should go for it. If a €60,000 director is effective why would you replace them with a volunteer with no skills? The most important thing is getting the boxes to the kids, they seem to be good at that.

Amadeus 2014

I genuinely find it baffling that people can't see the distinction between volunteering for a good cause and working for a good cause.

If a Charity is going to run effectively it needs a lot of the same structure and overhead as a normal business. It needs a Finance Manager to look after the money and make sure bills are paid. It needs a HR manager to make sure that employees and volunteers are looked after. It might need a logistics manager if it distributes aid. It might need communications or PR experts to spread its message. In the same way that a company has sales staff a charity usually has fundraisers. And they need senior managers and a CEO.

Not having these things increases waste, inefficiency and stops funding or benefit going to the people who need help.

Now if I was a Logistics Manager why on earth would I work for free just because it's for a good cause? I would still have bills to pay, food to buy and a warm fuzzy feeling from helping the needy won't heat a house in winter. Sure I could volunteer in my spare time but you would need twenty people doing an evening a week each to cover the same amount of time as one full time employee. If a charity has 6 full time staff that means finding 120 specialist volunteers! Does anyone in the real world think that is practical, even before you think of the chaos of dealing with 20 opinions on the right way to do something or even what to do.

And people who work for charities generally earn far less and do longer and more anti social hours than the private sector equivalent. Typical charity roles involve a lot of evening and weekend work and the average CEO running a 4.5million euro company is on a whole heap more than 70k a year! I guarantee that if that CEO moved to the private sector they would at a minimum double thier wages for an equivalent role.

(I'm not defending Chuggers or dodgy fundraisers who give the impression that all donations go to teh charity when they take a cut by the way, just the run of the mill charity employee)

The problem is that the 'Charity Industry' has discredited the entire sector.

If I was younger and unscrupulous and wanted to earn some money I'd set up a charity, something to pull at the heartstrings, animals or children, then run sad TV adverts and contract out finding to organisations for a substantial %v of what they raise, pay myself a salary and then donate some of the remainder to somebody who is actually delivering charity so that I get material for the next series of adverts...

Advbrd

I do a couple of shoeboxes with the kids each year. It's good for them to know that not everybody has it so good.
The figures been bandied about above are very much on the low end of the scale. Nothing is for free. Full time employees need to be paid or the whole enterprise falls apart. Less than 70K for a full time CEO is a bargain. I have lately become very picky about which charity my hardearned goes to: mostly local causes but I have no issue supporting the annual shoebox drive.

chuky_r_law

i'd never heard of this crowd before. seems like a good idea, and something you could do with your kids. having read the financial reports listed here it seems they are very well run. ive no idea why this is in conspiracy theories tho. thanks for the heads up op