What exactly do I have to supply to tenants

windmilllane

I'm getting my house ready for new tenants and have a question. my previous question ended up getting 77 responses and ended up discussing who caused 2nd world war so I'm hoping this won't cause the same!

Anyhow what do I need to supply, I previously supplied everything, all appliances, kitchen ware down to teaspoons etc, laundry basket, etc.

However this time I want to supply only items I'm oblidged to as a landlord iykwim. Thanks

Boater123

http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/Housing/FileDownLoad%2C33422%2Cen.pdf

Aka Ishur

Use the resources available. Use your head.

http://www.prtb.ie/landlords/rights-responsibilities-obligations/minimum-standards-for-rented-dwellings

windmilllane

Thanks for those, didn't realise I was t oblidged to supply a dryer. I replaced one for the previous tenant 2 years ago!

Aka Ishur

Only when the tenants do not have a private garden or yard. (Of course its always better to provide one if you prefer to avoid mould issues.)

Gumbo

windmilllane wrote: »

Thanks for those, didn't realise I was t oblidged to supply a dryer. I replaced one for the previous tenant 2 years ago!

Only obliged if there is no outdoor space for drying.
A balcony in an apartment is sufficient and a back garden in a house is sufficient.

If you have to rent one of those back to back town house type houses then there son private space, so dryer is required.

Mrs OBumble

kceire wrote: »

Only obliged if there is no outdoor space for drying.
A balcony in an apartment is sufficient

Provided there are no management company rules saying now drying on the balcony. (Most complexes do have such rules.)

Gumbo

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Provided there are no management company rules saying now drying on the balcony. (Most complexes do have such rules.)

Yeah fair point which I've overlooked.

Michael D Not Higgins

kceire wrote: »

Only obliged if there is no outdoor space for drying.
A balcony in an apartment is sufficient and a back garden in a house is sufficient.

If you have to rent one of those back to back town house type houses then there son private space, so dryer is required.

I don't know if a balcony counts anyway. The regulations say it has to be a garden or yard.

MB Lacey

A Landlord in addition to providing a 4 hob oven/ and grill has to provide a microwave oven?
Is this correct? A microwave is not an essential appliance for cooking.

testicles

This post has been deleted.

Terrontress

If you're lifting 15k a year in rent, probably paying the bank 13k, never mind property tax, property management company, income tax etc., there is no point in getting worried about the price of a 100 microwave.

MB Lacey

Terrontress wrote: »

If you're lifting 15k a year in rent, probably paying the bank 13k, never mind property tax, property management company, income tax etc., there is no point in getting worried about the price of a 100 microwave.

The price of the microwave was not the focus of my query, it was the fact that it's considered essential, when it's clearly not.
I don't own a microwave and don't see the need for one. If someone else feels they can't cook without one, that's up to them, but it's not an essential for cooking imo.

This has been debated here before and if I was you I would rent it unfurnished, only supplying what you have to as per the regulations above.

The logic goes thus: You generally want to attract stable professionals, either a couple or singleton. If they have been renting for some time already they probably have a couple of pieces of furniture already and/or wouldnt mind investing in the pieces they need. If they buy their own furniture they will probably look after their own property fairly well which should mean less wear and tear on your house, and they are less likely to move out on a whim as it means moving all their furniture out.

athtrasna

MB Lacey wrote: »

The price of the microwave was not the focus of my query, it was the fact that it's considered essential, when it's clearly not.
I don't own a microwave and don't see the need for one. If someone else feels they can't cook without one, that's up to them, but it's not an essential for cooking imo.

Regardless of what you think and how you cook it is a legal requirement.

nebraska132

athtrasna wrote: »

Regardless of what you think and how you cook it is a legal requirement.

I assume if the tenants don't want the microwave then you don't have to provide it

Mrs OBumble

MB Lacey wrote: »

The price of the microwave was not the focus of my query, it was the fact that it's considered essential, when it's clearly not.
I don't own a microwave and don't see the need for one. If someone else feels they can't cook without one, that's up to them, but it's not an essential for cooking imo.

Personally I agree with you that it's not essential.

But the middle-class luvvies who drafted the minimum list clearly thought otherwise. Kinda weird that a microwave is essential but a bed isn't, but there ya go.

nebraska132 wrote: »

I assume if the tenants don't want the microwave then you don't have to provide it

It would be foolish not to: despite what a tenant may verbally say, not proving an item on the governmnet's minimum list would be opening yourself up to claims that you've not followed the law.

athtrasna

nebraska132 wrote: »

I assume if the tenants don't want the microwave then you don't have to provide it

Did you miss the "legal requirement" bit? It's not optional. The tenants can put it in the attic if they want but you are obliged to provide one.

MB Lacey

MB Lacey wrote: »

The price of the microwave was not the focus of my query, it was the fact that it's considered essential, when it's clearly not.
I don't own a microwave and don't see the need for one. If someone else feels they can't cook without one, that's up to them, but it's not an essential for cooking imo.

I'd consider a microwave essential in this day and age and I would imagine most others would too. You would be very much in the minority's in not having or using one, in fact I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a house without one.

Carawaystick

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

P

But the middle-class luvvies who drafted the minimum list clearly thought otherwise. Kinda weird that a microwave is essential but a bed isn't, but there ya go.

You couldn't rent an unfurnished flat if a bed was legally mandated.

Turtle_

Danica Strong Firehouse wrote: »

I'd consider a microwave essential in this day and age and I would imagine most others would too. You would be very much in the minority's in not having or using one, in fact I couldn't tell you the last time I saw a house without one.

yeah me too, not because I'm unable to cook, rather because I live on my own-i-ohs.. Cooking for 1.. Make dinner for 2 or 3, freeze/fridge and reheat the other portions when needed. Microwave essential for that!

RandomAccess

Be serious, a microwave is not going to be a deal breaker.

pauldavis123

http://www.argos.ie/static/Product/partNumber/4007573/c_1/1%7Ccategory_root%7CKitchen%2Band%2Blaundry%7C14418476/c_2/3%7Ccat_19780844%7CMicrowaves%7C14418513.htm

€50...

Turtle_

Turtle_ wrote: »

yeah me too, not because I'm unable to cook, rather because I live on my own-i-ohs.. Cooking for 1.. Make dinner for 2 or 3, freeze/fridge and reheat the other portions when needed. Microwave essential for that!

Exactly what I was thinking about, along with reheating dinner that's cooked when you get in late, defrosting when you forget to take out the meat for dinner, heating things like beans, cooking patatoes when you get in late, making porridge etc etc.

I use the microwave multiple times a day (at work and at home).

Cookie_Monster

that list is crazy :eek:
fridge, freezer, microwave, washing machine / dryer should all be tenants problem.

That's how it works here in NZ and means people actually start building a collection of furniture and appliance and they'll actually take care of them (though 99% places are rented unfurnished in general).

why so much over-regulation?

Cookie_Monster

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

that list is crazy :eek:
fridge, freezer, microwave, washing machine / dryer should all be tenants problem.

That's how it works here in NZ and means people actually start building a collection of furniture and appliance and they'll actually take care of them (though 99% places are rented unfurnished in general).

why so much over-regulation?

Because most people renting in Ireland have no interest in buying appliances. They buy them when they have their own house and then buy the ones that are suitable for it not some cobbeled togeater set of mismatched stuff that they have to drag around from place to place when they move house and all the extra hassle and expense of moving etc.

Danica Strong Firehouse

Danica Strong Firehouse wrote: »

Because most people renting in Ireland have no interest in buying appliances. They buy them when they have their own house and then buy the ones that are suitable for it not some cobbeled togeater set of mismatched stuff that they have to drag around from place to place when they move house and all the extra hassle and expense of moving etc.

That doesnt answer the question of why so much over-regulation. Probably to ensure some Quango gets funding next year.

IMO, its no coincidence that bedsits got banned, and that list was updated around the same time incidents of homelessness sky rocketed.

athtrasna

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That doesnt answer the question of why so much over-regulation. Probably to ensure some Quango gets funding next year.

IMO, its no coincidence that bedsits got banned, and that list was updated around the same time incidents of homelessness sky rocketed.

Over regulation is as subjective an opinion as essential. I'm sure there is logic behind the list.

Danica Strong Firehouse

Danica Strong Firehouse wrote: »

Because most people renting in Ireland have no interest in buying appliances. They buy them when they have their own house and then buy the ones that are suitable for it not some cobbeled togeater set of mismatched stuff that they have to drag around from place to place when they move house and all the extra hassle and expense of moving etc.

Its chicken and egg. If youre renting in Ireland you wont find anywhere that will allow you to bring your own appliances.

I agree, renting unfurnished is better for everybody. On the Continent, even student flats are unfurnished. The student brings basiics from home or IKEA and starts to build up their furniture and appliance collection from then on.

Its better for the tenant and for the landlord.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

That doesnt answer the question of why so much over-regulation.

Everything in Ireland is over regulated. I think it comes from the celtic tiger era when there was money for civil servants to do this and nobody worried about passing on the cost.

Also Ireland tends to ape the UK and gold plate what they do, and the UK is already notorious for over regulation.

Terri26

Deleted User wrote:

Its better for the tenant and for the landlord.

How is it better for the tenant? A lot of house shares etc? Dublin rent is crazy and to expect someone to have their own is crazy the way we rent here. Although I am renting many years, a lot of places don't rent out longterm and tenants may not have security. In Germany etc it's normal to get contracts for a much longer term. I would hate to have to buy my own bits as like a previous poster mentioned I'll buy my own when I buy my own place. To the OP, buy a microwave, a cheap one if needs be. Better that that put off potential tenants.

Terri26

Terri26 wrote: »

How is it better for the tenant?

You have your own stuff, the stuff that suits you and that has memories; not the soggy sofa that the landlord has had for years, the bed that is too hard or too soft and all the stuff bought by him because it suited rental properties ( ie cheap and long lasting)...

Michael D Not Higgins

On the list of things wrong with renting in Ireland, the regulation that requires you buy a €50 microwave is very near the bottom.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Its chicken and egg. If youre renting in Ireland you wont find anywhere that will allow you to bring your own appliances.

I agree, renting unfurnished is better for everybody. On the Continent, even student flats are unfurnished. The student brings basiics from home or IKEA and starts to build up their furniture and appliance collection from then on.

Its better for the tenant and for the landlord.

No not for me, I'd have no interest whatsoever in renting unfurnished. If I'm renting I want everything provided and not have the hassle and expensive of buying my own things when I might move to another place that they don't fit, have the cost of buying them and moving them etc etc.

Buying your own appliance and furniture is for when you buy your own house. Even as a LL you can furnish a place cheaply enough so not a big deal.

Danica Strong Firehouse

Danica Strong Firehouse wrote: »

No not for me, I'd have no interest whatsoever in renting unfurnished. If I'm renting I want everything provided and not have the hassle and expensive of buying my own things when I might move to another place that they don't fit, have the cost of buying them and moving them etc etc.

Well thats you and no-one is saying a complete changeover to unfurnished overnight but it would help the rental situation in Ireland if landlords didnt feel the needed to kit out their place, after the required list, with coffee tables and sleeping chairs and couches and what not. It would be cheaper for landlords, which might bring prices down a bit.

Buying your own appliance and furniture is for when you buy your own house. Even as a LL you can furnish a place cheaply enough so not a big deal.

Im 34, Ive been renting for 16 years and I'll be renting for another 5 at least before I get a place of my own. For most of those 16 years Ive lived in places with crappy not IKEA, but Argos furniture. Stuff that fell apart when looking at it. I once didnt get the deposit back because there were stains on the white suede couch. White suede is like a magnet to stains. With all due care and diligence, the white suede couch got a stain on it.

Its a bit sad that for the last 16 years Ive lived with and on, the cheapest possible crap. The days are over when people bought houses at 25 or 30. Why put off buying things you like for when you get your house if its going to be 5,10 or 15 years in the future?

TheDoc

Deleted User wrote: »

Well thats you and no-one is saying a complete changeover to unfurnished overnight but it would help the rental situation in Ireland if landlords didnt feel the needed to kit out their place, after the required list, with coffee tables and sleeping chairs and couches and what not. It would be cheaper for landlords, which might bring prices down a bit.

Yeah glad you put might in italics there, because the likelyhood is the pricing wouldn't come down.

These are on the list for a reason. They are minimum expectations and appliances required for living, and historically there has clearly been precedent for landlords in situations to gouge while supplying the minimum. It's why anything like this exists, there was a precedent at a point in time.

My first apartment didn't have a dryer and no private area for drying. There was no heating in the house apart from a fireplace, and the house experienced mould in winter. We didn't mind not giving the landlord hassle over the dryer, aslong as he had the understanding he wasn't to come near us about mould. and we had a happy professional relationship.

On a simple base level, if you don't provide an oven, fridge and the likes, who is covering the installation costs? Is a landlord happy I bring a contractor in to perform works on his/her property? Maybe I wouldn't be happy using a landlords contact if I have one I trust. Who's liable for damages for poor work.

All of that just avoided by providing the basic stuff.

I'd say if unfurnished rentings became a thing, they can kiss goodbye this craic of looking for two and three months deposit.

I've very little furniture that I own, every apartment has had beds, sofas and the likes. I've only ever had to pickup bookcases, coffee tables and Tv stands. I'm lucky that the range I like from IKEA is cheap. Last two times I've moved landlords have offered me cash to leave my stuff, and I've just gone and bought the same stuff again for our new place

Have to say I wouldn't go near an unfurnished place unless there was a seriously lower rent on offer.

Cookie_Monster

Michael D Not Higgins wrote: »

On the list of things wrong with renting in Ireland, the regulation that requires you buy a €50 microwave is very near the bottom.

it's not just a microwave though, its all the other thing's i've already listed which then have to be priced into the rent, along with having to replace these more frequently than normal because tenants won't give a **** about how they treat them.

So you either get the cheapest crappiest appliances (like a 50e microwave) or buy decent quality stuff and have a much higher rent to cover it all. lose, lose

newacc2015

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

that list is crazy :eek:
fridge, freezer, microwave, washing machine / dryer should all be tenants problem.

That's how it works here in NZ and means people actually start building a collection of furniture and appliance and they'll actually take care of them (though 99% places are rented unfurnished in general).

why so much over-regulation?

But what are all tenants who never look after a place going to moan about if the place is unfurnished? You can hardly expect them to pay for the sofa they are going to break throughout the year?

Irish tenants want to moan about the quality of furnishings in rental properties, but never want to buy their own stuff as they either dont have the money. But IMO its because they dont want to look after it. Most Irish tenants respect the furniture they are given, but the small minority who dont are the reason why landlords dont spend €600 on a mattress

I personally cant understand why washing machines and dryers are put into apartment complexes. In Germany and America, they are communal and kept in the basement. It makes so much more sense. There is less risk of leaks and something you only use once a week isnt taking up limited kitchen space

Most of the reg's regarding 4 ring hobs etc is a sly way of banning bedsits before they were officially banned.

Turtle_

newacc2015 wrote: »

I personally cant understand why washing machines and dryers are put into apartment complexes. In Germany and America, they are communal and kept in the basement. It makes so much more sense. There is less risk of leaks and something you only use once a week isnt taking up limited kitchen space.

I lived in a place like that, it was a nightmare. Never. Ever. Ever again.

Electric Sheep

newacc2015 wrote: »

But what are all tenants who never look after a place going to moan about if the place is unfurnished? You can hardly expect them to pay for the sofa they are going to break throughout the year?

Irish tenants want to moan about the quality of furnishings in rental properties, but never want to buy their own stuff as they either dont have the money. But IMO its because they dont want to look after it. Most Irish tenants respect the furniture they are given, but the small minority who dont are the reason why landlords dont spend €600 on a mattress

I personally cant understand why washing machines and dryers are put into apartment complexes. In Germany and America, they are communal and kept in the basement. It makes so much more sense. There is less risk of leaks and something you only use once a week isnt taking up limited kitchen space

Most of the reg's regarding 4 ring hobs etc is a sly way of banning bedsits before they were officially banned.

There is a laundry room in my building, and I love it. Maybe it's because I am an obsessive laundry sorter, but doing 4 large loads once every 10 days or so, wash, dry, fold and put away in 2 hours suits me a lot better than constantly doing a load here and there while never having a full load of each type.

I would hate the sound of the washer or dryer in my own apartment. Far better to have 10 of each in the basement than one of each in my apartment taking up space and making noise.

bassey

Electric Sheep wrote: »

I would hate the sound of the washer or dryer in my own apartment. Far better to have 10 of each in the basement than one of each in my apartment taking up space and making noise.

When I lived in Germany we were in an apartment complex of easily 100 apartments and in the basement there were 2 washers and 1 dryer. Absolute nightmare

DoozerT6

I mentioned this in another thread a while back, but I would also hate the thought of a communal laundry area. Could pilfering be an issue unless you were there to watch your clothes? Do people not get p!ssed off with dragging all their laundry to another part of the building, and back again? Plus, I don't really want strangers seeing me loading my dirty knickers into the washing machine. What if you (or someone else) drops a pair of skidmarked jocks onto the floor by accident and don't see them? Do people just pretend not to notice? Would someone else pick them up? Could you come back from your apartment to find that someone has unloaded your clothes and made off with your best jeans and favourite sweatshirt?

I know it seems to work in other places but I wouldn't be a fan.

On topic, here in Ireland we're much more used to furnished (or at least partially furnished) properties. White goods are generally always included at least. I know we have many more people of various nationalities here now, and each one would bring different housing expectations/experiences from their own countries, but I think we have a while to go here before tenants are happy with a completely unfurnished property. We haven't got the mindset yet of "I don't own my own place, yet I have enough furniture to fill a three-bed house that I may never be able to afford (or want) and that's fine". If you are in the position of having to rent a smaller place than you would like for whatever reason, then you have to find somewhere to store your excess furniture, etc. Back when I was renting, personally I would rather rent furnished, and pad it out with a few personal bits, nothing that wouldn't fit in total in a small Land Rover-sized van.

Electric Sheep

bassey wrote: »

When I lived in Germany we were in an apartment complex of easily 100 apartments and in the basement there were 2 washers and 1 dryer. Absolute nightmare

I wonder if that was legal - it does not seem like sufficient provision of washing facilities. Then again, I have lived in apartments with no washing facilities at all, so I guess that is legal in the US at least. No big deal, trip to the launderette every week or two.

Communal washing and drying, god that sounds horrific.

newacc2015

DoozerT6 wrote: »

I mentioned this in another thread a while back, but I would also hate the thought of a communal laundry area. Could pilfering be an issue unless you were there to watch your clothes? Do people not get p!ssed off with dragging all their laundry to another part of the building, and back again? Plus, I don't really want strangers seeing me loading my dirty knickers into the washing machine. What if you (or someone else) drops a pair of skidmarked jocks onto the floor by accident and don't see them? Do people just pretend not to notice? Would someone else pick them up? Could you come back from your apartment to find that someone has unloaded your clothes and made off with your best jeans and favourite sweatshirt?

I know it seems to work in other places but I wouldn't be a fan.

I have stayed in a ton of Hostels. I never heard of anyone getting their clothes robbed, but phones yes. If you stick up CCTV, I imagine no one would be bothered. Funnily enough I know a lot of the flats in the middle of Dublin City have clothes drying openly in areas where anyone can walk into. Thousands of students are so lazy that they bring bags of week old dirty clothing home to be washed on trains and buses. I think most people would have no issue going from their apartment to the basement.

I just seems so mad to me that most Irish apartment kitchens are tidy and are made even smaller devoting an entire press area to something that is used once a week. A washer dryer is considered a luxury in even large sized American apartments, yet in shoe box apartments in Dublin City they are considered a must. It makes no sense at all.

I would rather use an excellent German washer and dryer in a basement of an apartment complex than the **** British washer/dryers that 99% of landlords buy, which manage to destroy pretty much all your clothing.

listermint

newacc2015 wrote: »

I have stayed in a ton of Hostels. I never heard of anyone getting their clothes robbed, but phones yes. If you stick up CCTV, I imagine no one would be bothered. Funnily enough I know a lot of the flats in the middle of Dublin City have clothes drying openly in areas where anyone can walk into. Thousands of students are so lazy that they bring bags of week old dirty clothing home to be washed on trains and buses. I think most people would have no issue going from their apartment to the basement.

I just seems so mad to me that most Irish apartment kitchens are tidy and are made even smaller devoting an entire press area to something that is used once a week. A washer dryer is considered a luxury in even large sized American apartments, yet in shoe box apartments in Dublin City they are considered a must. It makes no sense at all.

I would rather use an excellent German washer and dryer in a basement of an apartment complex than the **** British washer/dryers that 99% of landlords buy, which manage to destroy pretty much all your clothing.

There's people here that want to live like a hostel in their permanent home...

And the same folks are saying American apartment sizes are something to aspire to.....

athtrasna

Thread title is "What exactly do I have to supply to tenants". Nothing to do with US or German apartment sizes or hostels.

68 lost souls

Surprised by the requirement for a microwave our current rental didn't come with one so we just bought one ourselves. Going to bring it with us to our new place.

Hoover was also supplied but we have our own so left the LL one in the box as new.

The kettle broke but it was the cheapest one in Argos anyway so we replaced it ourselves.

Bought our own toaster too.

We only have shared communal gardens and no drier, no space for a drier either but we would never ever use a drier anyway hate the things. Clothes horse does the job for us

Mrs OBumble

Danica Strong Firehouse wrote: »

Communal washing and drying, god that sounds horrific.

Ahh, you live pretty much in a boarding house with a shared kitchen/lounge. How is that not communal?


To bring this back to the OP's question: note that there's a requirement to supply access to a washing machine and drying facility, not exclusive access.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

note that there's a requirement to supply access to a washing machine and drying facility, not exclusive access.

A clothes horse is a drying facility.

Mrs OBumble

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Ahh, you live pretty much in a boarding house with a shared kitchen/lounge. How is that not communal?

There is no comparison between and a washing machine in a shared house used by 3 people compared to a communal laundry room in an apartment complex.

It's not even the number of people using it it's the awkwardness of using it, not being able to throw on a wash going to bed and put it out in the morning etc. I'd just bring all my washing home if I was living in a set up like this (normally just bring home what ever washing I've built up during the week before my weekends at home at the moment).