Unequal pay

Wesser

I just hired a man with a van
He drive 200km picked up my stuff drive 200km back and then unloaded.
Total time equals 8 hours. 350 euro minus 50 euro for petrol equals 300 divided by 8 equals 37.5 e an hour.
No qualifications or degree needed. Also was extremely rude for the whole job.


Nurses are paid 17 e an hour. College degree required and serious responsibility and pressurised workplace.

Why is this? it just doesn't really seem fair......

cichlid child

why did you agree the price if you thought he was overcharging?
And unequal pay is when two jobs exactly the same are paid two different salary's.

MeTV

You forgot to factor in his business costs & expenses.

o1s1n

Because one person is on a salary and the other is trying to run a business.

cichlid child

MeTV wrote: »

You forgot to factor in his business costs & expenses.

And his time.

Arthur.beaker

Wesser wrote: »

I just hired a man with a van
He drive 200km picked up my stuff drive 200km back and then unloaded.
Total time equals 8 hours. 350 euro minus 50 euro for petrol equals 300 divided by 8 equals 37.5 e an hour.
No qualifications or degree needed. Also was extremely rude for the whole job.


Nurses are paid 17 e an hour. College degree required and serious responsibility and pressurised workplace.

Why is this? it just doesn't really seem fair......

Is that EUR 17 per hour gross or net?

Wesser

I hired him because he is the cheapest. The other quotes I got were 800 640 and 550.
I am not able to lift all the boxes myself.

17 e hour is gross.

What other business expenses have I not factored in?

I have factored in his time. That what I put into my calculations.

Mrs OBumble

Wesser wrote: »

No qualifications or degree needed. Also was extremely rude for the whole job.

No qualifications - so you hired a guy without a drivers licence to haul your stuff. Really???



Things that guy's "hourly" rate covered which a nurse's salary didn't cover include:

• Equipment (the van) - nurses don't bring their own beds to work!
• Equipment maintenace -beds don't exactly need to pass the NCT, and they don't travel 200km in a day
• Public liability insurance, for both driving and for loading/unloading (which is far heavier lifting than a nurse will ever be doing)
• Advertising - do you knew where to find him
• Overtime / shift allowance for the driver (you have no idea what other hours he worked this week or if he needed to take an enforced driving break before returning home)

I'm thinking that 300 for an 8 hour, 200km job is actually quite reasonable sounding.

And if your attitude while taking to the guy is similar to your attitude here, I suspect I know why you thought he was "rude".

3DataModem

Wesser wrote: »

I just hired a man with a van
He drive 200km picked up my stuff drive 200km back and then unloaded.
Total time equals 8 hours. 350 euro minus 50 euro for petrol equals 300 divided by 8 equals 37.5 e an hour.
No qualifications or degree needed. Also was extremely rude for the whole job.


Nurses are paid 17 e an hour. College degree required and serious responsibility and pressurised workplace.

Why is this? it just doesn't really seem fair......

Maybe one difference is the fact that the nurse gets paid tomorrow, and the day after, etc. Mr Van most likely does not have guaranteed daily income.

Arthur.beaker

Wesser wrote: »

No qualifications or degree needed.

Did he not have a driving licence?

bobmalooka

Simples, pop into your local hospital and offer them the work.

o1s1n

Wesser wrote: »

I hired him because he is the cheapest. The other quotes I got were 800 640 and 550.
I am not able to lift all the boxes myself.

17 e hour is gross.

What other business expenses have I not factored in?

I have factored in his time. That what I put into my calculations.

As I said, a nurse is on a salary. So guaranteed X amount of income over X time.

Someone who runs a business doesn't have this guarantee so needs to charge more per hour of work to compensate for down time. (as well as the original costs of running a business)

davo10

If wage depends only on qualifications, op I hope your qualifications justify your own wage.

NinjaTruncs

Wesser wrote: »

What other business expenses have I not factored in?

How about the van? Does he get that for free? Then all the other costs associated with running the van, you covered fuel but there is maintenance, insurance, tax they all add up.

Wesser

There is nothing wrong with my attitude. I was very pleasant to him. The question I am asking here is genuine as i want to find out the answer. That is all. There is no additional tone to my question.
Thanks for letting me know the reasons. You learn something new everyday.
Doesn't the nurse need an NCT and a drivers licence aswell? For example a public health nurse? I am not trying to argumentative or rude. It ha a genuine question I just want to know.

Donutz

Wesser wrote:

What other business expenses have I not factored in?

Insurance, road tax, wear and tear on his vehicle.

flyingsnail

The nurse will get paid a mileage allowance to cover that

Wesser

Yes my qualifications justify my wage.

Wesser

Ok that's great thanks for explaining.

davo10

Op, I think the amount charged was fair for a 400km haul, I also think nurses should be paid more but that doesn't help your argument.

nhunter100

Public health nurse gets mileage allowance for her/his car/jeep whatever plus the HSE also helps with insurance as the vehicle is not strictly for social/domestic/pleasure. Plus as already pointed out the nurse is guaranteed a pay cheque whereas Van man is not, he also has to pay tax and a host of other charges and he needs an accountant they don't work for free.

Del2005

Wesser wrote: »

There is nothing wrong with my attitude. I was very pleasant to him. The question I am asking here is genuine as i want to find out the answer. That is all. There is no additional tone to my question.
Thanks for letting me know the reasons. You learn something new everyday.
Doesn't the nurse need an NCT and a drivers licence aswell? For example a public health nurse? I am not trying to argumentative or rude. It ha a genuine question I just want to know.

You should have got a nurse to do your move then.

dreamers75

For a job like that I would charge you €25 per man and a transport charge. Which oddly enough would be close to the amount of hours worked.

37.5 per hour is quite cheap for a 400km run.

ThinkProgress

So should van man be able to charge the OP whatever he wants/needs in order to cover the fact that he doesn't know when his next job is coming?

I understand he needs to cover his other costs, and that's a fair point... but surely it's not the responsibility of the OP to ensure van man gets enough to cover gaps between jobs?

How much is lifting boxes and driving a van over an 8 hour shift worth, in terms of a daily wage? (10-12 euro P/H?)

I would be interested in the breakdown of that job, to see how much van man is coming out with for that job after his expenses are covered. (for one days worth of work) The OP should be paying what the job is actually worth - not what van man needs to make!

Wesser

dreamers75 wrote: »

For a job like that I would charge you €25 per man and a transport charge. Which oddly enough would be close to the amount of hours worked.

37.5 per hour is quite cheap for a 400km run.

Yes I know that why I picked him.

skywanderer

That was daylight robbery and you were worse to give him €350 for that. This thread should be in the rip-off pages not here. That guy is ripping people off and there is no justification whatsoever for that sort of charging. €200 would be alot for that journey.

Harvey Normal

skywanderer wrote: »

That was daylight robbery and you were worse to give him €350 for that. This thread should be in the rip-off pages not here. That guy is ripping people off and there is no justification whatsoever for that sort of charging. €200 would be alot for that journey.

And yet. It was the cheapest offer.

flyingsnail

ThinkProgress wrote: »

So should van man be able to charge the OP whatever he wants/needs in order to cover the fact that he doesn't know when his next job is coming?

I understand he needs to cover his other costs, and that's a fair point... but surely it's not the responsibility of the OP to ensure van man gets enough to cover gaps between jobs?

How much is lifting boxes and driving a van over an 8 hour shift worth, in terms of a daily wage? (10-12 euro P/H?)

I would be interested in the breakdown of that job, to see how much van man is coming out with for that job after his expenses are covered. (for one days worth of work) The OP should be paying what the job is actually worth - not what van man needs to make!

The man with a van can ask for whatever he wants, he could ask for €1000 a km if he wanted, its up to the customer to then decide if it is worth paying.

cichlid child

skywanderer wrote: »

That was daylight robbery and you were worse to give him €350 for that. This thread should be in the rip-off pages not here. That guy is ripping people off and there is no justification whatsoever for that sort of charging. €200 would be alot for that journey.[/QUOTEThe op agreed the price ,how is this man a rip off. If you don't like the price don't hire him. Simple
EDIT: Flyingsnail got there before me

StupidLikeAFox

ThinkProgress wrote: »

So should van man be able to charge the OP whatever he wants/needs in order to cover the fact that he doesn't know when his next job is coming?

I understand he needs to cover his other costs, and that's a fair point... but surely it's not the responsibility of the OP to ensure van man gets enough to cover gaps between jobs?

How much is lifting boxes and driving a van over an 8 hour shift worth, in terms of a daily wage? (10-12 euro P/H?)

I would be interested in the breakdown of that job, to see how much van man is coming out with for that job after his expenses are covered. (for one days worth of work) The OP should be paying what the job is actually worth - not what van man needs to make!

Van man can quote what he wants, OP doesn't have to accept the quote. The rest of your post is irrelevant

nhunter100

ThinkProgress wrote:

I would be interested in the breakdown of that job, to see how much van man is coming out with for that job after his expenses are covered. (for one days worth of work) The OP should be paying what the job is actually worth - not what van man needs to make!

What the van driver/owner makes is irrelevant he operates in a free market capitalist society. Don't like his prices feel free to engage the competition.

ThinkProgress

skywanderer wrote: »

That was daylight robbery and you were worse to give him €350 for that. This thread should be in the rip-off pages not here. That guy is ripping people off and there is no justification whatsoever for that sort of charging. €200 would be alot for that journey.

That's the kind of figure I was thinking too.

If you were paying someone a wage to do such a job, I can't imagine them earning more than 10/11 euro P/H... so where does the rest of that e350 come from? How exactly do they cost it?

Carlos Orange

ThinkProgress wrote: »

That's the kind of figure I was thinking too.

If you were paying someone a wage to do such a job, I can't imagine them earning more than 10/11 euro P/H... so where does the rest of that e350 come from? How exactly do they cost it?

Welcome to capitalism where stuff is worth whatever someone will pay you.

I just hope he found someone who would let him exchange the strange pieces of paper with colourful pictures you gave him for something actually useful.

ThinkProgress

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

Van man can quote what he wants, OP doesn't have to accept the quote. The rest of your post is irrelevant

I know he can... I'm just curious how he arrives at that figure for the job?

Is part of his calculations factoring in the gaps between jobs? And if so, would that be fair on the customer?

macnug

This has to be one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever read. If you don't think a job is worth x then don't pay it, next time rent a van and do it yourself. If you had been talking about a taxi or something where the fair is regulated you may of had a point but this is a free market situation.

davo10

The van driver quoted what the market will bare, therefore he is being paid exactly what he is worth. Same as every other vendor, he doesn't have to justify his cost any more than you have to justify what you are being paid. It's a free market, you don't have to pay it if you don't want it, if you do, either that's what it was worth to you or you didn't do your research. In this case the van driver was a lot cheaper than other quotes so that is what that service is worth in today's market.

If you don't like it, don't pay it.

bobmalooka

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I know he can... I'm just curious how he arrives at that figure for the job?

Is part of his calculations factoring in the gaps between jobs? And if so, would that be fair on the customer?

Every single thing you buy factors in downtime/inefficiencies.

ThinkProgress

macnug wrote: »

This has to be one of the most ridiculous threads I've ever read. If you don't think a job is worth x then don't pay it, next time rent a van and do it yourself. If you had been talking about a taxi or something where the fair is regulated you may of had a point but this is a free market situation.

Right. And how does someone do this?

How do they accurately cost such a job, to determine whether or not the quote they're receiving is "worth X"?

nhunter100

skywanderer wrote:

That was daylight robbery and you were worse to give him €350 for that. This thread should be in the rip-off pages not here. That guy is ripping people off and there is no justification whatsoever for that sort of charging. €200 would be alot for that journey.

Yet he was the cheapest according to the op. He's ripping no one off. He gave his price up front up to you if want to engage or not. Simple solution hire a van from one of the vehicle hire companies and do the job yourself.

StupidLikeAFox

ThinkProgress wrote: »

I know he can... I'm just curious how he arrives at that figure for the job?

Is part of his calculations factoring in the gaps between jobs? And if so, would that be fair on the customer?

His pricing model irrelevant to you as a consumer.

davo10

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Right. And how does someone do this?

How do they accurately cost such a job, to determine whether or not the quote they're receiving is "worth X"?

The provider considers the costs involved and the value you place on your own time. The buyer considers whether the price is worth it to him/her, if not, don't pay. In this case the op had to weigh the cost of someone else doing it verses the cost of doing it himself. If the op had to rent a van and take a day off work to do it, it might have cost more than he/she was charged so doing it himself might have represented less value.

macnug

ThinkProgress wrote:

How do they accurately cost such a job, to determine whether or not the quote they're receiving is "worth X"?

Well as a consumer you would generally price around and if you can't get someone to do the job for less and unwilling/unqualified to do the diy option then you have found what the job is worth in a free market.

Harvey Normal

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Right. And how does someone do this?

How do they accurately cost such a job, to determine whether or not the quote they're receiving is "worth X"?

For a right winger you really don't understand how the free market works.

Maggie007

Some of the posts here are crazy. Just because he doesnt need a degree to do the job doesnt mean he should do it for minimum wage, maybe he should have done it for a bowl of rice? Its a physically and mentally demanding job he deserves the amount he asked for.

the_pen_turner

This thread shows everything that is wrong with customers in this country. They can't see the difference between a person getting a wage and a tradesman . The wage is after tax and pray etc. Sick days ,holidays, pension , maternity, redundancy etc.
The tradesman has to pay VAT, public liability,vehicle costs, accountancy ,doe,buying van , tools, road tax,advertising, phones, ppe, loads of other expenses. They also have to pay all the stuff your employer has takes out of your wages.



You got a very good deal on the work done

ted1

Wesser wrote: »

I just hired a man with a van
He drive 200km picked up my stuff drive 200km back and then unloaded.
Total time equals 8 hours. 350 euro minus 50 euro for petrol equals 300 divided by 8 equals 37.5 e an hour.
No qualifications or degree needed. Also was extremely rude for the whole job.


Nurses are paid 17 e an hour. College degree required and serious responsibility and pressurised workplace.

Why is this? it just doesn't really seem fair......

A van isn't free, there's tax insurance , capital expenditure, maintenance etc
A nurse driving a 1.6l for 400 km would charge 239.60 euro as the civil service rate is .599 euro per km

cloloco

He helped you move the stuff too, loaded and unloaded the van as well I presume? As well as driving all that distance. Just because someone doesnt have an academic qualification (such as a degree) it doesnt mean that they dont have useful skills and should be paid as such. I think it was good value tbh and comparing his job to nurses is a bit of a stretch.

Mrs OBumble

Some hilarious reading here ... all the best threads are started on Fridays!


OP, if you stuff got to the right place, unbroken and all there, you've had a good day. Quit bitching about the cost, and get a good night's sleep.

Wesser

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Some hilarious reading here ... all the best threads are started on Fridays!


OP, if you stuff got to the right place, unbroken and all there, you've had a good day. Quit bitching about the cost, and get a good night's sleep.

I'm not bitching about the cost. I'm happy with the cost, that why I chose to hire him! It was well worth the money!
I just didn't understand why a nurse comparatively less.
Then some kind people explained why and now I understand. Fine. Case closed.
No need to be nasty. There are things in life that I understand that you don't and I'm not going to be nasty to you.

vandriver

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Some hilarious reading here ... all the best threads are started on Fridays!


OP, if you stuff got to the right place, unbroken and all there, you've had a good day. Quit bitching about the cost, and get a good night's sleep.

It's also quite funny that you expect someone to put 25k of their own money up for a van,and then be happy with 10 euro an hour in likely wages.

ThinkProgress

ThinkProgress wrote: »

Right. And how does someone do this?

How do they accurately cost such a job, to determine whether or not the quote they're receiving is "worth X"?

What do you mean by accurate? He quoted a price, the OP paid it, seems accurate enough.

Define accurate in this context.