Top floor apt with no ceiling insulation!

Kaisr Sose

There is no insulation in the void above my ceiling. I find it very hard to heat the apt – especially on a cold windy day. I have put a thermometer in the ceiling void and the temp is only a few degree below the 'interior' space. I assume this is because I am heating the void. Hard to believe it was specified like this. It's an exposed and elevated site so insulation should be better than average - not less.

I am considering insulated plaster board (27mm) over the existing plaster board. Is this recommended?

I moved in in 2007, but construction on the slab/ building cores started in 2006. Would this qualify for the SEAI grant ?

Steve

Have you access to the void?

Are you renting or an owner?

Is it foil backed board on top?

If you own, best bet would be go up there and lay insulation on top, provided there is a moisture barrier.

Kaisr Sose

I own it. Plaster is foil backed. I assume there is a moisture barrier in the roof - but there had been lots of issues with leaks. It's nowhere near a perfect build as they did not seal the outer 100% and there has been issues with interstitial condensation. Shocking really! My apt not too bad but leaks heat!

There is no access to the void without cutting the ceiling. All that's up there is the steel beams of the modular units, to which the ceiling joists are suspended from. Above that is the concert roof slab.

Pretty shocking that people think it's acceptable not to insulate above a living space.

GreenFolder2

How old is it?

Steve

Foil backed = moisture barrier.

I'd cut a hole / install a hatch (unless security is an issue) and lay 400mm over the whole lot.

hurikane

Steve wrote: »

Foil backed = moisture barrier.

I'd cut a hole / install a hatch (unless security is an issue) and lay 400mm over the whole lot.

You might want to run this by the management company beforehand.

Steve

hurikane wrote: »

You might want to run this by the management company beforehand.

Why?

Kaisr Sose

I had thought about that but it's a large space to fill that way. It would also require lots of holes to do it. Not workable unless you know a trick ?

Kaisr Sose

GreenFolder2 wrote: »

How old is it?

In OP - 2007

Kaisr Sose

Steve wrote: »

Why?

Totally agree. They don't pay my heating bill. It's my space I am trying to protect here.
I would like the OMC to pay for this as the insulation should be in the roof void which falls under their remit. They will plead no money and still for time. The MUD Act is no use for things like this or possibly at all as the remedy is Circuit Court. Nobody wins except the legal people.

Steve

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

I had thought about that but it's a large space to fill that way. It would also require lots of holes to do it. Not workable unless you know a trick ?

Sorry, no tricks I know about.

There's a guy I know that I worked with years ago who is doing insulation of houses for a living now, pm me if you would like more info and I can put you in touch.

hurikane

Steve wrote: »

Why?

The OP would be making structural changes.
The area above the OPs apartment would fall under the management of the management company.

Steve

hurikane wrote: »

The OP would be making structural changes.
The area above the OPs apartment would fall under the management of the management company.

Removing plasterboard and laying insulation is not structural

Are you suggesting that the owners of the lower floors fork out to insulate the top floor? not gonna happen.

Don't forget, the apartment owners own the management company.

Kaisr Sose

hurikane wrote: »

The OP would be making structural changes.
The area above the OPs apartment would fall under the management of the management company.

Adding insulation that should be there is not a structural change - nor is adding more insulation if it's needed. I can't take another years of wearing a coat in my own home. I am healthy outdoor type and believe coats are best worn outside. :rolleyes:

Adding insulated plaster board on the interior facing side of the ceiling is nothing the OMC needs to worry about. They have enough to do dealing with potential fire safety and general breaches of building code in the building itself than worrying about me insulating the interior of my apt when the insulation should be there anyway.

No offence, I actually know apt living and OMC rights and wrongs very well – it's information on insulation I posted looking for.

Metric Tensor

If it was built in 2006 there should be insulation to the roof - if it's a flat roof there may be insulation on top of the concrete slab or decking.

Whether there is or not you're still cold. I wonder if air leakage might be as big a problem as insulation - it's worth looking around the edges of your ceiling void for poor construction details that are allowing the heated air to escape.

N.B. You will have vents in your apartment too. These are required and should not under any circumstances be closed but if there's undesigned air gaps and details they are well worth addressing.

hurikane

Steve wrote: »

Removing plasterboard and laying insulation is not structural

Are you suggesting that the owners of the lower floors fork out to insulate the top floor? not gonna happen.

Don't forget, the apartment owners own the management company.

Did you suggest cutting a hole and installing a hatch in the ceiling?

Metric Tensor

Two things:

If it's so cold you have to wear a coat it's more than just insulation that's wrong. There's draughts/air leaks somewhere.

Depending on how you install insulation and of what type you could be affecting or damaging fire safety.

hurikane

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Adding insulation that should be there is not a structural change - nor is adding more insulation if it's needed. I can't take another years of wearing a coat in my own home. I am healthy outdoor type and believe coats are best worn outside. :rolleyes:

Adding insulated plaster board on the interior facing side of the ceiling is nothing the OMC needs to worry about. They have enough to do dealing with potential fire safety and general breaches of building code in the building itself than worrying about me insulating the interior of my apt when the insulation should be there anyway.

No offence, I actually know apt living and OMC rights and wrongs very well – it's information on insulation I posted looking for.

No offence taken or meant. I was replying to another poster who was suggesting you cut a hole in the ceiling, install a hatch and lay insulation in the void.

I'm sure that you know if you wanted to do that you'd need to consult the management company.

Steve

hurikane wrote: »

Did you suggest cutting a hole and installing a hatch in the ceiling?

Yes, not a structural change.
Removing joists would be structural, removing supporting walls would be structural. Removing a square of hanging foil backed gyproc is not.

What's your point there?

Steve

hurikane wrote: »

I'm sure that you know if you wanted to do that you'd need to consult the management company.

Again, why do you think this is so?

Kaisr Sose

Metric Tensor wrote: »

If it was built in 2006 there should be insulation to the roof - if it's a flat roof there may be insulation on top of the concrete slab or decking.

Whether there is or not you're still cold. I wonder if air leakage might be as big a problem as insulation - it's worth looking around the edges of your ceiling void for poor construction details that are allowing the heated air to escape.

N.B. You will have vents in your apartment too. These are required and should not under any circumstances be closed but if there's undersigned air gaps and details they are well worth addressing.

You make good points. Homebond told me the concrete roof slab is insulated. This is wet paper bag stuff as cold air moves through this void at a rapid rate due to the many construction defects – some of which have been recorded / reported as breaches of building regs. Thus, my heat is sucked out into the 'insulated' void. Who approves insulating a void exterior face but makes no provision for insulating the interior side facing the void?

Essentially the building shell is neither substantially air tight or water tight. Some degree of breathability is normal but we are talking massive currents of exterior air getting into the interior through ducts and 'unsealed openings'. It is widely believe the wall insulation is wet in most blocks as the builders placed defective DPC in the roof capping and water is cascading downward. There are also hole in waterproof membrane on flat roof and interstitial condensation is a big issue.

Kaisr Sose

hurikane wrote: »

No offence taken or meant. I was replying to another poster who was suggesting you cut a hole in the ceiling, install a hatch and lay insulation in the void.

I'm sure that you know if you wanted to do that you'd need to consult the management company.

Let's not get bogged down in OMC stuff. A suggestion was made - in some cases it would be workable , but not for me. If it was workable, it would not be a structural change. Plaster board could never be regarded as structural nor would adding insulation. On the latter point, people add floor and wall acoustic insulation in apts all the time and no approval is necessary.

peter_dublin

To be honest OP. As a director as a Management Company you should contact them about this, 1, if your break through the ceiling into the management companies property, they own the roof space you can be in breach of your lease agreement. Next there is the issue of Fire Certificates and insurance again is you do this.

The next reason is I would expect the management company to remedy this, we have a 20 year old development and we are still uncovering and repairing building defects to this day including no insulation in 90% of the cavity walls which we had filled at the companies expense. Once insulated they should reinstate the ceiling to it's previous state.

All works should be done using insured contractors and certificates provided. Especially since you mentioned unsealed gaps and ducting's, this can be a fire risk and should be addressed which would go towards resolving your issue. Do you attend the AGM to raise your concerns / join the company board.

Kaisr Sose

peter_dublin wrote: »

To be honest OP. As a director as a Management Company you should contact them about this, 1, if your break through the ceiling into the management companies property, they own the roof space you can be in breach of your lease agreement. Next there is the issue of Fire Certificates and insurance again is you do this.

Good points but my initial question was about over boarding the existing ceiling. Cutting the ceiling is not an option I want to pursue.

The OMC know about this for years and have not done anything about it. To be honest, they have bigger problems. I can huff and puff but they will say no money, not priority etc.

My primary concern here is me, my apt, my heating bill, my internal environment. I am sure if I pay for the work, and have it done to building reg standard, I can purse me the OMC at a later date. Doing it the way you outline will mean many winters will pass and I will still be cold etc. Not a runner.

The OMC can't even get as built drawings from bust developer / receiver so they don't even know what is in these voids. How can they pursue me or any owner without knowing as built spec ? Taking someone to task for installing insulation that should be there is a bit haesh. Would they not be better going after those that designed , built and signed off such a poorly, constructed and insulated structure ?

Adding ceiling insulation that meets fire safety standards/ building regs is not going to make this building less fire safe. Remember, the council issued a fire cert to a building that has potential fire safety defects in its method of construction (still trying to be fully quantified 5 yea on) that they signed off without checking.

seamus

hurikane wrote: »

No offence taken or meant. I was replying to another poster who was suggesting you cut a hole in the ceiling, install a hatch and lay insulation in the void.

I'm sure that you know if you wanted to do that you'd need to consult the management company.

You really wouldn't. The void above the block would be considered common area - exactly like a bin shed. The management company doesn't need to be consulted for approval before you place things in a common area.

As has been mentioned, no owner could make a structural change without consulting the management company. But there is nothing stopping them from putting an access hatch from their apartment into it, laying insulation or even floorboards and using it for storage. Provided the apartment owner makes no structural or otherwise permanent changes to the attic, and doesn't plan on storing hazardous materials, the management company does not have to be consulted.

Yes, the OP should review his leasehold agreement, but I very much doubt you're going to find anything in there prohibiting access to or use of the attic.

One thing the OP might find is that he never needs to use his heating after insulating the attic because the heat of the rest of the apartments will become trapped in his.

Kaisr Sose

^^this is not relevant to me. It's not attic space (Max height 80cm). Accessing is pointless as there is only plaster board and stud joist to support a person, who would have to crawl along avoiding cable and the tops of plaster board fixings. You would need to cut so many holes it would be easier to take it all down.

Adding insulated plaster board is the easiest way to do this. So as per my OP - is over boarding recommended?

No more posts on accessing the void please.

Right2Write

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Adding insulated plaster board is the easiest way to do this. So as per my OP - is over boarding recommended?

A downside might be that you will reduce the floor to ceiling height, possibly below minimum specs. You'd want to measure the current floor to ceiling and check the regulations. As best I know, it's 2.44 metres or 8ft but don't take that for certain.

This might not affect you, you might be happy if the ceilings are a little lower. But it would probably have implications if you sell at some stage.

Also adding a slab of any thickness is going to be a bit of work in itself. You'll need to identify where the joists are, cut & fix, tidy up all the joints, extend any ceiling roses and re skim etc. Insulating the space above might well be simpler!

jaykayphd

Apologies to the OP for high jacking their thread. I too suffer from a cold top floor apartment. Built ~ 2000. There is a massive cold attic space above the apartment and the internal walls seem to continue up into this attic space. I fear these walls are acting like chimneys drawing warm air up and allowing cold air to descend into the internal apartment walls.

Would it be possible/advisable to cut some of the plaster out of these 'attic walls' at floor level, seal the gaps at the top of the internal walls somehow and ensure a continuous layer of fiberglass insulation throughout the attic space? I should add, there is fiberglass insulation up there at the moment, but this is compartmentalized in the attic due to the plasterboard walls.

Kaisr Sose

jaykayphd wrote: »

Apologies to the OP for high jacking their thread..

Can I suggest you start a separate thread - it's better for both of us.

Kaisr Sose

Right2Write wrote: »

Insulating the space above might well be simpler!

If you can tell me how to do that when there is no access to it and where there are electrical cables, central heating pipes and downlighting...pump up foam and cover the lot? Is this not counter productive to fitting insulated board?

Right2Write

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

If you can tell me how to do that when there is no access to it and where there are electrical cables, central heating pipes and downlighting...pump up foam and cover the lot? Is this not counter productive to fitting insulated board?

Well that's for you to figure out. I'm merely pointing out that your proposed solution of slabbing the ceilings in the rooms is not without problems and work. Incidentally you sometimes used to see (still do?) polystyrene tiles stuck to ceilings presumably for this purpose. Not sure how effective they are. Must be better than nothing but look tacky as well.

Incidentally, how do you know there is no insulation above the ceiling and how did you measure the temperature above, if you've no access??

There are companies providing insulation solutions and that 'pump foam' but these are normally applied to wall cavities as far as I know. Probably not a good idea to do this if there are electrical cables present..

Maybe you'd need to make a series of openings so that conventional loft insulation could be laid and then reinstate but sounds messy too.

Kaisr Sose

Right2Write wrote: »

Well that's for you to figure out. I'm merely pointing out that your proposed solution of slabbing the ceilings in the rooms is not without problems and work. Incidentally you sometimes used to see (still do?) polystyrene tiles stuck to ceilings presumably for this purpose. Not sure how effective they are. Must be better than nothing but look tacky as well.

Incidentally, how do you know there is no insulation above the ceiling and how did you measure the temperature above, if you've no access??

There are companies providing insulation solutions and that 'pump foam' but these are normally applied to wall cavities as far as I know. Probably not a good idea to do this if there are electrical cables present..

Maybe you'd need to make a series of openings so that conventional loft insulation could be laid and then reinstate but sounds messy too.

I appreciate you may be trying to help but cutting loads of holes just to put up insulation maybe an option to you but it's really messy and time consuming that way. Those tiles you mention are decorative not thermal as far as I know.

Measuring temp in the cavity or checking insulation is really easy to do. I am surprised you ask. Remove down lighters and with a light fitting removed I can scope around with an inspection camera (or even an iPhone) and also put a thermometer up there. Alternatively drill small hole and put inspection camera or thermometer up.

Now I told you my secret you might enlighten me as to how I can safely get foam up there and not risk causing a fire through the downlighters overheating or the foam damaging the exposed electrical cable housings. If you don't know the answer then it's best not to suggest solutions you don't fully understand.

Right2Write

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

If you don't know the answer then it's best not to suggest solutions you don't fully understand.

Fine, you figure it out - since you seem to know what answer you want

But I will risk one final piece of advice.

Sell next summer

and

take care next time to buy a better insulated abode.

hurikane

Right2Write wrote: »

Fine, you figure it out - since you seem to know what answer you want

But I will risk one final piece of advice.

Sell next summer

and

take care next time to buy a better insulated abode.

This x100

No need to be so brash with posters who are trying to help.

If you were so particular when buying, maybe you would have a properly insulated apartment.

Go get some professional advice from a home insulation company.

Kaisr Sose

Right2Write wrote: »

Fine, you figure it out - since you seem to know what answer you want

But I will risk one final piece of advice.

Sell next summer

and

take care next time to buy a better insulated abode.

That's actually two pieces of advice!
Real crystal ball stuff from you then! The people in prior hall would love to have had your vision and advice. Sometime things happen and you then try to fix them.

If you care to read my OP you will see the information I asked - if I had answers I would not be asking here. Overboard or not to overboard. That's where it's at.

Thanks for trying to help.

Kaisr Sose

hurikane wrote: »

This x100

No need to be so brash with posters who are trying to help.

If you were so particular when buying, maybe you would have a properly insulated apartment.

Go get some professional advice from a home insulation company.

I did not mean to come across harsh but his suggestions were unworkable and was not what was asked. Cut loads of holes in my ceiling to avoid reboarding with insulated board? Come on...reboarding is easier than that!

If builders would build to the regs and there was enforcement, then wise after the fact comments like yours would not be required.

It's a DIY forum...DIY gets discussed all the time. Thanks for your input.

Right2Write

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

I did not mean to come across harsh but his suggestions were unworkable and was not what was asked. Cut loads of holes in my ceiling to avoid reboarding with insulated board? Come on...reboarding is easier than that!

What! You may note that I pointed out the main steps in fixing insulated plasterboard or whatever else to your ceilings. Whether you have the DIY skills or not for the various steps to do that, I know not. But regardless, I've pointed out to you the obvious potential problem - the possibility of reducing your floor to ceiling clearance below the building regs. You might get away with it if/ when you sell, you might not.

Steve

Right2Write wrote: »

What! You may note that I pointed out the main steps in fixing insulated plasterboard or whatever else to your ceilings. Whether you have the DIY skills or not for the various steps to do that, I know not. But regardless, I've pointed out to you the obvious potential problem - the possibility of reducing your floor to ceiling clearance below the building regs. You might get away with it if/ when you sell, you might not.

This forum is generally very helpful and offers great advice, I'm not sure how or why the animosity seems to be building but wouldn't it be better if we all tried to get along?

Your agenda has been well noted, thanks.

hurikane

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

I did not mean to come across harsh but his suggestions were unworkable and was not what was asked. Cut loads of holes in my ceiling to avoid reboarding with insulated board? Come on...reboarding is easier than that!

If builders would build to the regs and there was enforcement, then wise after the fact comments like yours would not be required.

It's a DIY forum...DIY gets discussed all the time. Thanks for your input.

You were buying an apartment, not a packet of crisps. Did you get an engineers report when you bought? What did it say about insulation?

Don't blame the builders or regulation enforcement, you didn't do your homework.

A fool and his money are soon parted. Hire a professional and get it sorted, don't forget to run it by the management company.

Kaisr Sose

Right2Write wrote: »

What! You may note that I pointed out the main steps in fixing insulated plasterboard or whatever else to your ceilings. Whether you have the DIY skills or not for the various steps to do that, I know not. But regardless, I've pointed out to you the obvious potential problem - the possibility of reducing your floor to ceiling clearance below the building regs. You might get away with it if/ when you sell, you might not.

Thanks.

The building regs have been breached all over Ireland and nobody gets called out for it. What I am attempting to here is remedy a breach of same. Your ideas on cutting holes may be lateral / helpful / creative thinking but not workable.

My internal height is 2470mm plus wooden floor of 15mm, so it will take up to 70mm retro fit board over existing board and still be within the regs. I am looking at board that's just 27mm if overboarding or 40ish if reslabbing.

I am skilled enough to install such board but most likely will get it done by a contactor to have the certs of compliance. Hope to get the grant but it's 50/50 of the construction date qualifies (from 2006 higher insulation standards were required - I got a lower standard)

Finally, we are all wiser after making a mistake. If you have never made one or never been misled or conned, then you are lucky.

moc moc a moc

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

I did not mean to come across harsh

Yes you did, don't lie

Kaisr Sose

hurikane wrote: »

You were buying an apartment, not a packet of crisps. Did you get an engineers report when you bought? What did it say about insulation?

Don't blame the builders or regulation enforcement, you didn't do your homework.

A fool and his money are soon parted. Hire a professional and get it sorted, don't forget to run it by the management company.

Are you trolling here? One has more consumer protection if buying crisps in Ireland than property.

All over Ireland very wise and certainly not foolish people were conned into buying homes that were built to a poor standard or not to the regs at all. Lots of these defects would never be visible to an engineer engaged prior to purchase. I had my survey done, like many others. Like others, I have a construction guarantee that is worthless – Homebond that is.

I have drawings that state there is insulation –it's not there. You have to go to court to get a remedy for this and all the companies are bust, insolvent, in NAMA etc. Home run for everybody bar purchaser who if we follow your way of thinking, should hang their heads in shame for trusting the regulation of construction in Ireland. Oh to be as wise as you!

Where have you been living since 2008? Have you heard of Priory Hall, Longboat Quay? There are loads more too – maybe not as bad but just watch. What about pyrite – would your crystal ball show that up pre-purchase?

I hope you are never one of the victims of this shoddy work or lack of enforcement. How could you live with the shame? Heaven forbid somebody may dare call you a fool for being duped by the professionals and regulators.

Insulating my ceiling is nothing to do with the OMC. Thanks for your input though.

hurikane

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Are you trolling here? One has more consumer protection if buying crisps in Ireland than property.

All over Ireland very wise and certainly not foolish people were conned into buying homes that were built to a poor standard or not to the regs at all. Lots of these defects would never be visible to an engineer engaged prior to purchase. I had my survey done, like many others. Like others, I have a construction guarantee that is worthless – Homebond that is.

I have drawings that state there is insulation –it's not there. You have to go to court to get a remedy for this and all the companies are bust, insolvent, in NAMA etc. Home run for everybody bar purchaser who if we follow your way of thinking, should hang their heads in shame for trusting the regulation of construction in Ireland. Oh to be as wise as you!

Where have you been living since 2008? Have you heard of Priory Hall, Longboat Quay? There are loads more too – maybe not as bad but just watch. What about pyrite – would your crystal ball show that up pre-purchase?

I hope you are never one of the victims of this shoddy work or lack of enforcement. How could you live with the shame? Heaven forbid somebody may dare call you a fool for being duped by the professionals and regulators.

Insulating my ceiling is nothing to do with the OMC. Thanks for your input though.

Are you trolling?

I've some magic beans, 100k. They'll sort out your insulation problems, I'll send you my bank details.

Kaisr Sose

Why would I troll my own thread ?

Stoner

Sure you can do this if you have the height. Its messy though as you'll have to skim it with plaster afterwards. And it might take some height from the space too.

If and I know it's an if you could cut a hatch. You could lay wool or spray between the joists then you could pass sheets of thermal board (not plaster backed) just foil and insulation up into the attic and lay it over the wool or spray filled timbers. This would be quick fast and effective.
The hatch would need to allow sheets up though

You could plaster the hatch up again do nobody would notice.

Under ceiling is messy

edanto

(1) I'm a complete amateur and know nothing about building/regs etc

(2) I know you're asking for insulation advice, but I'm a big fan of the 'fix it once' approach and to me it seems like the best long term solution is to get together with all the other top floor owners in your block, and make a costed proposal to the Management Company to fix the roof (air/water) and safely insulate the 80cm attic space using funds from the apt owners and the sinking fund. This stops your investment losing value from water damage. It might turn out to be unrealistic, but at least find out what it costs and what support you might have from your neighbours/MC.

(3) If you do put a ~30mm board all over the ceiling, what happens at the downlighters? Will you be left with 10 circular gaps in your insulation through which your warm air is venting into the damp wet space?

(4) If you do put the ~30mm board on the ceiling, would you fix 2 or 3 layers of AluBubble to the ceiling before putting up the board? This might allow you to reduce airflow through the downlighter circles so that only the wires come though a small gap in the criss crossing foil. I don't think that this is the best approach, unless you're determined to go it alone and get it done before the winter. If you do go this way, you'd need someone with more expertise to validate the material, this is just a guess on my part.

Kaisr Sose

Stoner wrote: »

Sure you can do this if you have the height. Its messy though as you'll have to skim it with plaster afterwards. And it might take some height from the space too.

If and I know it's an if you could cut a hatch. You could lay wool or spray between the joists then you could pass sheets of thermal board (not plaster backed) just foil and insulation up into the attic and lay it over the wool or spray filled timbers. This would be quick fast and effective.
The hatch would need to allow sheets up though

You could plaster the hatch up again do nobody would notice.

Under ceiling is messy

Thanks. Would love to go the route you outline , however the void is not on continuous space or anything near one. There is a steel frame with vertical struts too. This means nothing can be pushed or rolled across the entire expanse. The existing ceiling board is fixed directly to this steel frame all running one way-no beams at right angles. I will post some pics.
.

Alun

A bit extreme, but what about removing the plasterboard from the entire ceiling, attaching some light wooden joists to the steel frame and placing insulation between these, either solid, or wool held in place by a membrane or such stapled to the joists, and then replace the plasterboard?

Kaisr Sose

edanto wrote: »

(1) I'm a complete amateur and know nothing about building/regs etc

(2) I know you're asking for insulation advice, but I'm a big fan of the 'fix it once' approach and to me it seems like the best long term solution is to get together with all the other top floor owners in your block, and make a costed proposal to the Management Company to fix the roof (air/water) and safely insulate the 80cm attic space using funds from the apt owners and the sinking fund. This stops your investment losing value from water damage. It might turn out to be unrealistic, but at least find out what it costs and what support you might have from your neighbours/MC.

(3) If you do put a ~30mm board all over the ceiling, what happens at the downlighters? Will you be left with 10 circular gaps in your insulation through which your warm air is venting into the damp wet space?

(4) If you do put the ~30mm board on the ceiling, would you fix 2 or 3 layers of AluBubble to the ceiling before putting up the board? This might allow you to reduce airflow through the downlighter circles so that only the wires come though a small gap in the criss crossing foil. I don't think that this is the best approach, unless you're determined to go it alone and get it done before the winter. If you do go this way, you'd need someone with more expertise to validate the material, this is just a guess on my part.

Thanks for giving it some thought. There is some good information there.

Getting together with other owners is almost impossible.Most would not care to look or get involved. The OMC are well intended but have much bigger items to worry about - structural / construction and fire related. If the cost is reasonable here it should be self-financing over a few years, and I will hopefully get some refund from the OMC later.

I was incorrect to say void is 80cm, it's 30cm (bar one area where it's a higher) It is dry up there, but not cold. Temp outside last night 11deg. Living room 19deg. Void space almost 19deg. It should be a few degrees lower than that.

I could live without the downlighters – I don't use them due to them having halogen. I have always questioned having them as the holes were causing draughts. I am sure there must be some LED strip lighting I could use instead.

Options seem to be:

Full re-board
Over-board
Inject foam (subject to getting ok on its interaction with electric cabling)

Kaisr Sose

Alun wrote: »

A bit extreme, but what about removing the plasterboard from the entire ceiling, attaching some light wooden joists to the steel frame and placing insulation between these, either solid, or wool held in place by a membrane or such stapled to the joists, and then replace the plasterboard?

It's an option alright. Not sure about using wood (fire safety) but metal is just as workable. Food for thought!

Alun

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

It's an option alright. Not sure about using wood (fire safety) but metal is just as workable. Food for thought!

What do you think the vast majority of house ceilings are made of?