Chronic Security Queuing at DUB T1!!

ongarboy

I dropped the folks off at around 11:30 this morning in T1 and while they checked in/dropped bags swiftly, we encountered the worst queues ever for Security. The queue started outside the security area to the left of the departures area and snaked it's way around the perimeter of the entire departures lounge before doubling and tripling up towards the Ryanair desks at the right/eastern side before continuing on along the back of the lounge and tripling up again before feeding back into the actual security area again. The odd thing was that most of the check in desks in the centre of this mammoth circular queue were deserted so it didn't appear such a queue was justified unless no-one carries check in luggage these days.

Most of my flights in recent years have been from T2 and haven't encountered such queues. Is this normal for T1 these days? Thankfully, they gave themselves 2 hours so hopefully they hadn't issues. I used to give myself 75 minutes to check in but might need to revise this if this is the norm!

HeidiHeidi

Holy God :eek:

I don't fly that often, but I'd have happily assumed that 11.30 was a relatively quiet time of the day, and turned up accordingly. I don't think I have ever turned up 2 hours in advance, even for an early morning departure!

Have a 1pm flight coming up in the next few weeks, will be watching responses to this thread keenly! (Mind you, mine is from T2 I think..... but still!)

Savman

Classic T1.

I have been through T1 a couple of dozen times this year. Most recently last week. I have never been waiting more than 20 mins to get through security. Sounds like this was an unusual event.

If I ever saw a queue that long, I would just walk over to T2 and go through security there instead.

goingnowhere

If flying out of T1 you could walk back to T2, do security there and cross back to T1

You can do it for all gates but it gets a bit crazy if going to 1xx gates distance wise

Boarding passes for either terminal work in the other

The SLA is 25 minutes, DAA claim this was only broken a handful of times last year

JCX BXC

Security was 35minutes back in late June when I went through in the morning. I thought it was unusual. Got through in 20 though.

.G.

Been through T1 three times this year and at different times of day each time and the longest wait was 15 minutes. Going through again this week's so hoping for the same speedy service.

ongarboy

Mother rang me just before boarding and said queue actually moved quickly and was about 40 mins in the end. I guess it was the endless length that made me think they could be waiting over an hour. Still surprised that it would be like this on a weekend late morning. Lots of weekenders heading back early maybe or else perhaps not enough security lines were opened.

uck51js9zml2yt

I always use fast track.

Mebuntu

A friend of mine was going through T1 a few weeks ago and the queue was "only" back to the barriers where you scan your boarding passes. When she finally got closer to the action she was outraged to discover that there were only 3 out of the 15 channels open.

I just had a look at the Twitter page and there are complaints from today. One Tweeter posted:

"There is obviously a resource problem if only 20% of screening stations are open."

The DAA's outrageous and insulting reply to him and all the others is:

"Sorry you were queuing we aim to match resources with numbers travelling & have all available resources in security screening"

So they, obviously, have no clue as to how many passengers are actually due to travel on any given day or time of day or only have enough staff for 3 channels then. Pathetic.

Negative_G

Mebuntu wrote: »

The DAA's outrageous and insulting reply to him and all the others is:

"Sorry you were queuing we aim to match resources with numbers travelling & have all available resources in security screening"

Outrageous and insulting? Really?

Pat Dunne

Mebuntu wrote: »

The DAA's outrageous and insulting reply to him and all the others is:

"Sorry you were queuing we aim to match resources with numbers travelling & have all available resources in security screening"

More like "unsympathetic, and don't question our methods" customers services type reply!

If you're not a tightwad and you want to get through security with the least amount of hassle and delay, €6 for fastrack is little to ask.

Mebuntu

Negative_G wrote: »

Outrageous and insulting? Really?

He's standing in a long queue, with a long wait ahead to get through and they're telling him that all available resources are being employed yet there's only 20% of the channels open. Yes, it is outrageous that the people who run the airport were not capable to "match resources with numbers travelling" and insulting to the passengers that, because of their incompetence, long waiting times result. So, do you think 40 mins security time as reported later by the OP is acceptable?

0lddog

goingnowhere wrote: »

If flying out of T1 you could walk back to T2, do security there and cross back to T1

You can do it for all gates but it gets a bit crazy if going to 1xx gates distance wise

Boarding passes for either terminal work in the other......

In your experience, is T2 security nearly always quicker than T1 ?

04KY

Mebuntu wrote: »

So they, obviously, have no clue as to how many passengers are actually due to travel on any given day or time of day or only have enough staff for 3 channels then. Pathetic.

Do the airlines provide daa with the number of passengers that are due to fly out?

HeidiHeidi

Would it really be worth the gamble/trouble to walk from T1 to T2 and back again?

I've never actually walked it, but unless you were going to take it at quite a clip it must be at least a 10-min walk, and then a security queue (which could in theory be just as long as the one you've just left) and then another 10 mins back to T1 to get to your gate?

(Like I say, I've never done it, so not sure of the distances involved)

Unless I knew for a fact what the queue was like in T2, I'd take my chances on the T1 queue, personally.

Negative_G

Mebuntu wrote: »

He's standing in a long queue, with a long wait ahead to get through and they're telling him that all available resources are being employed yet there's only 20% of the channels open. Yes, it is outrageous that the people who run the airport were not capable to "match resources with numbers travelling" and insulting to the passengers that, because of their incompetence, long waiting times result. So, do you think 40 mins security time as reported later by the OP is acceptable?

Your friend was a she in your first post, now they are a he, which is it?

This really is a first world problem. So he/she had to wait an extra 20/25 mins longer than usual. Big deal. If their time is so precious, pay for fast track.

Delays happen. While they can be inconvienant, it really isn't worth getting so upset over.

markpb

HeidiHeidi wrote:

Would it really be worth the gamble/trouble to walk from T1 to T2 and back again?

I've never actually walked it, but unless you were going to take it at quite a clip it must be at least a 10-min walk, and then a security queue (which could in theory be just as long as the one you've just left) and then another 10 mins back to T1 to get to your gate?

I'd imagine it's almost never worth it. However if you had no luggage to check in, you could download the app, check the queue times and decide to go directly to T2, clear security there and then walk to T1 your your flight.

Right now it's 30 minutes in T1 and only 7 in T2 so anyone arriving by bus or taxi with no luggage would be far better off going to T2.

Mebuntu

Negative_G wrote: »

Your friend was a she in your first post, now they are a he, which is it?

You're a bit confused. If you actually read the posts you will observe that the "she" was my friend who was there a few weeks ago. The "he" was in reference to one of the complainers on Twitter THIS MORNING.

artanevilla

Been through T1 about 15 times this year, never waiting more than 10 mins, I always tell people Fast Track is a waste of money.

ongarboy

markpb wrote: »

Right now it's 30 minutes in T1 and only 7 in T2 so anyone arriving by bus or taxi with no luggage would be far better off going to T2.

Hmm...my parents would be over both 75 and while the queue was a pain, even if they had no check in luggage, I'd rather not drop them at T2 and expect them to walk such a distance to T1 after security. Maybe if you're younger and more mobile.

The consensus I'm getting so far is that the experience they received this morning is thankfully more the exception rather than the rule. I'm flying Ryanair myself next month so I think I'll give myself 90 minutes minimum to be sure though.

The Veteran

ongarboy wrote: »

Hmm...my parents would be over both 75 and while the queue was a pain, even if they had no check in luggage, I'd rather not drop them at T2 and expect them to walk such a distance to T1 after security. Maybe if you're younger and more mobile.

The consensus I'm getting so far is that the experience they received this morning is thankfully more the exception rather than the rule. I'm flying Ryanair myself next month so I think I'll give myself 90 minutes minimum to be sure though.

If you know the Gate that your T2 flight is departing from it can be easier to go through T1 security - basically if you are travelling Aer Lingus Regional (bussing from 332-335) or from the main 300 Gates; then T1 security would make for a more convenient experience (assuming you don't need to drop bags).

Dublin isn't really two Terminals, more one very large Terminal that has four sets of Gates; five if you count Pre-Clearance Departure Gates.

Negative_G

Mebuntu wrote: »

You're a bit confused. If you actually read the posts you will observe that the "she" was my friend who was there a few weeks ago. The "he" was in reference to one of the complainers on Twitter THIS MORNING.

You also said your friend observed '3 out of 15' lanes being open which, coincidentally, is 20%, hence the correlation.

Anyway, I trust you've put pen to paper about how horrendously this annoynmous tweeter was treated instead of blowing hot air online.

Mountain out of a molehill.

Jamie2k9

That wasn't normal, still it was only around 35 minute to clear and you should really always expect 15-20 minutes.

Part of the problem is stupid passengers who are unable to follow simple rules at security.

The Veteran

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

That wasn't normal, still it was only around 35 minute to clear and you should really always expect 15-20 minutes.

Part of the problem is stupid passengers who are unable to follow simple rules at security.

Daa also get fined by CAR if queue breached 30 minutes

Jamie2k9

The Veteran wrote: »

Daa also get fined by CAR if queue breached 30 minutes

I'm aware but it's very very rare for them to be as bad as they were today. The daa have been pretty good with resourcing security area with recent growth in numbers.

term

can there possibly be a correlation between the number of passenger screening staff not turning in for work and a certain gaa match yesterday?

Mebuntu

The Veteran wrote: »

Daa also get fined by CAR if queue breached 30 minutes

Do you know how that works in practice? If it's +30 minutes at, say, 07.00 and remains the same until 11.00 or re-occurs later in the same day how many times are they fined? Or is it just something like one fine for any 24 hour period no matter how many times the limit is exceeded during that period?

Maybe it's cheaper for them to pay a fine rather than employ sufficient security staff.

Any idea what the fine is?

Jamie2k9

Mebuntu wrote: »

Do you know how that works in practice? If it's +30 minutes at, say, 07.00 and remains the same until 11.00 or re-occurs later in the same day how many times are they fined? Or is it just something like one fine for any 24 hour period no matter how many times the limit is exceeded during that period?

Maybe it's cheaper for them to pay a fine rather than employ sufficient security staff.

Any idea what the fine is?

It's daily based and during first half of 2016 no fines were issued:
Q1 2016 - Max was 25 minutes (1 week was 25), Others 20 or less
Q2 2016 - Max was 25 minutes (1 week was 25, 3 exceeded 20 minutes), Others 20 or less

Over the same periods in 2015 average waits between 20-25 minutes and over at times so big improvement this year even with continued passenger growth.

The Veteran

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

It's daily based and during first half of 2016 no fines were issued:
Q1 2016 - Max was 25 minutes (1 week was 25), Others 20 or less
Q2 2016 - Max was 25 minutes (1 week was 25, 3 exceeded 20 minutes), Others 20 or less

Over the same periods in 2015 average waits between 20-25 minutes and over at times so big improvement this year even with continued passenger growth.

The fine is massive! It would certainly never pay to incur it rather than have additional staff. I would suspect that the match may have had something to do with it or some other "quirks". I think there was a problem around this time last year when the roster was changed - I don't know but maybe temporary staff have finished up or such like.

It's rare that queues are bad - congestion at peak times everyday but congestion and breaching 30 minutes are different things.

Jamie2k9

The Veteran wrote: »

The fine is massive! It would certainly never pay to incur it rather than have additional staff. I would suspect that the match may have had something to do with it or some other "quirks". I think there was a problem around this time last year when the roster was changed - I don't know but maybe temporary staff have finished up or such like.

It's rare that queues are bad - congestion at peak times everyday but congestion and breaching 30 minutes are different things.

Could well be temp finishing. Yes the fines are not cheap.

homerjay2005

have flown out of T1 about 25 times this year and on every occasion, i was through security in less than 10 minutes.

only once in my last ~100 trips through there, has the queue started outside the scanners.

gumbo1

Mebuntu wrote: »

Any idea what the fine is?

80,000€ per breach. So, if at 8am the que time goes over 30 mins it's 80k, if it happens again at 2pm it's 80k and so on.


In fairness, people are about to get on a metal tube to fly at around 50 0mph at a height of 30,000 feet in the air so if having to que for a longer period than they expect is the worst thing to happen to them that day then it's not all that bad really is it?

Staff in both terminals work to the best but if pax don't comply with their requests to remove items from their bags or their person then that adds to the que time because the staff have to stop the process of screening them to search the person/bag with in turn causes a back log of passengers.

HeidiHeidi

gumbo1 wrote: »

80,000€ per breach. So, if at 8am the que time goes over 30 mins it's 80k, if it happens again at 2pm it's 80k and so on.


In fairness, people are about to get on a metal tube to fly at around 50 0mph at a height of 30,000 feet in the air so if having to que for a longer period than they expect is the worst thing to happen to them that day then it's not all that bad really is it?

Staff in both terminals work to the best but if pax don't comply with their requests to remove items from their bags or their person then that adds to the que time because the staff have to stop the process of screening them to search the person/bag with in turn causes a back log of passengers.

That's a fair enough point - but what happens if the unexpected queue means you miss your flight, though?

It's the uncertainty element that annoys people - I would expect that at 6 or 7am the place would be heaving, but at 11.30am (the time in the OP) I really would not expect a queue doing fourteen laps of the departures area - and would be unlikely to have left enough time for that.

Now it appears that the OPs parents got through OK as the queue moved fairly smartly - but I still would not have expected a 40 minute queue at that time.

There has been talk of an app that shows live queuing times, which I didn't know about - anyone have details of that? (Although it still won't tell what the queues will be like in, say, one hour's time when I'll actually arrive at the airport)

Mebuntu

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

There has been talk of an app that shows live queuing times, which I didn't know about - anyone have details of that? (Although it still won't tell what the queues will be like in, say, one hour's time when I'll actually arrive at the airport)

I've just noticed that the current security times are shown on the website https://www.dublinairport.com/

At the moment it's showing <15mins for T1 and <12 mins for T2.

LXFlyer

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

That's a fair enough point - but what happens if the unexpected queue means you miss your flight, though?

It's the uncertainty element that annoys people - I would expect that at 6 or 7am the place would be heaving, but at 11.30am (the time in the OP) I really would not expect a queue doing fourteen laps of the departures area - and would be unlikely to have left enough time for that.

Now it appears that the OPs parents got through OK as the queue moved fairly smartly - but I still would not have expected a 40 minute queue at that time.

There has been talk of an app that shows live queuing times, which I didn't know about - anyone have details of that? (Although it still won't tell what the queues will be like in, say, one hour's time when I'll actually arrive at the airport)

The Dublin Airport app shows queueing times, departure gates and times and other info - very useful.

gumbo1

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

That's a fair enough point - but what happens if the unexpected queue means you miss your flight, though?
)

If it's gettin to squeaky bum time for gate closing get the attention of a staff member or ask the pax in front if you can skip by them. It's happened hundreds of time where someone hasn't given themselves enough time, ie 2 hours before their flight departs, and staff will bring them to the top if the que or pax allow them to skip by!

Dardania

Mebuntu wrote: »

HeidiHeidi wrote: »

There has been talk of an app that shows live queuing times, which I didn't know about - anyone have details of that? (Although it still won't tell what the queues will be like in, say, one hour's time when I'll actually arrive at the airport)

I've just noticed that the current security times are shown on the website https://www.dublinairport.com/

At the moment it's showing <15mins for T1 and <12 mins for T2.

Whilst it's a good feature to show those times online, and in the app, to be fair, it's a technical solution to a resourcing problem (e.g. speed up the security screening throughput would prevent this from being an issue)

Irish Steve

This is a regular subject, and the reality is that it needs addressing in a number of aspects.

Yes, the first is resourcing, if there's a queue and there are scanning lanes not in use, that's an issue.

Some of the problems are however directly under the control of the people travelling. I find it more than slightly incredible that over 10 years after the scanning regulations came into force, there are still significant numbers of people who arrive at the scanners with items that are not allowed, or are not packed as required for travel, while there may be a few people that haven't travelled by air in the last 10 years, there are some who either can't be bothered to read the information provided by the airlines and the DAA, or bluntly, have the attitude "Feck their rules, they don't apply to me". The end result is delays while the issues are resolved by the security checkers.

The third is more difficult, and that's down to the way that security is laid out and operates on a day to day basis. I don't travel as often as I used to, and I know what the basic rules are, but I never know if today will be a day when they want shoes removed, and trouser belts removed, and the reality is that if they want shoes and belts off, tell us while we're in the queue, don't snarl and snap at us when we get to the belt and discover that today is a higher level security day, so shoes and belts have to go through the scanner. I am not going to remove shoes and belt unless it's required, as it's a pain to then have to collect them along with the rest of the items that have gone through, even more so in winter months if there's a top coat, loose laptop and cabin case to recover, while ensuring that a sneak thief doesn't lift the laptop while other items are being dealt with.

Trouser belts are a particular issue, while a significant number of people are obese, and not at risk of losing their clothing, there are those, especially elderly passengers, where the trouser belt is an essential item to prevent the trousers heading south. For older and possibly infirm passengers, if they have to recover a winter top coat, cabin bag, loose shoes, trouser belt, and maybe a tablet or laptop computers and mobile phone, keys, loose change and other things, while keeping trousers decent with one hand, to then move away from the scanner belt to allow others to come through, that is NOT easy or simple, even more so if the passenger has a mobility or similar issue that means they can't move as fast or as freely as other passengers. The number of chairs available in the scanning area is very low, and there's nowhere close to the chairs to put other items on, so they have to go on the floor while putting shoes back on, which can mean real issues for some people to get them back up off the floor.

Then there are the issues that cause problems for a family with young children, things like soft toys that the child is not easily parted from, and the other essential items when travelling with small children, getting all of them through the system can on occasions be a challenge, and it's not quick.

Both of these factors can result in hold ups that are not the fault of the passenger or the security scanning staff, they are a result of shortcomings in the design of how the process is managed.

Things would be a lot simpler if we'd not gone down the road of having charges for hold luggage, it's a lot easier to put many of the problem items in a hold bag, but not if that hold bag is going to cost more than the seat did to get it to the other end, and that still won't solve some of the issues for older passengers outlined above, or solve the problem of the people who don't care about the rules.

Flying used to be fun, and an enjoyable experience, but the changes as a result of 9/11 and subsequent events have changed that, getting to the aircraft is too often a hassle, which adds significantly to the stress levels, and I don't see that changing any time soon. Maybe if DAA (and others) did surveys of passengers to find out what the issues for them are, there might be changes to improve the experience, but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one.

homerjay2005

gumbo1 wrote: »

It's happened hundreds of time where someone hasn't given themselves enough time, ie 2 hours before their flight departs, and staff will bring them to the top if the que or pax allow them to skip by!

nobody should need to arrive two hours beforehand for a flight. if regulations are 20-25 mins maximum in security, you should be able to arrive no more than 1 hour before departure and expect to comfortably make your flight.

gumbo1

homerjay2005 wrote: »

nobody should need to arrive two hours beforehand for a flight. if regulations are 20-25 mins maximum in security, you should be able to arrive no more than 1 hour before departure and expect to comfortably make your flight.

Why? It's a guideline from both your airline and the airport. If you aim to be there an hour beforeyour flight departs that mens you only have 30 mins until your gate closes. You hit unexpected traffic on your way to the airport, delay, have difficulty finding parking, delay, have to do a 20 25 min que to get through security, provided you've checked in online and only have carry on, delay. Then your panicked and flustered all because of your decision not to adhere to the guideline 2 hour window.
You still think getting to the airport 1 hour before your flight is really gonna work out for you?

Idbatterim

I constantly book fasttrack now, the past two times there has been virtually no q at normal security. But its the unknown, the bloody potential stress you can have at airports, I dont need it and I am not showing up two hours early, for a short flight, with no bags to check in...

just reading the above, to avoid any stress, without check in bags, I'd say 1.5 is fine... You are right about the hour though, particularly at peak times...

Xcellor

Went through T1 security on Friday afternoon around 4pm. Queues were backed up to outside the boarding card scanners. I've fly this time quite often and it's never been like that.

A woman in front of me asked one of DAA staff if this is usual and he seemed to suggest it was and that airlines say to arrive 2 hours before. He did so it a very dismissive way.

arubex

Pat Dunne wrote: »

If you're not a tightwad and you want to get through security with the least amount of hassle and delay, €6 for fastrack is little to ask.

So, make the primary product unbearable and then 'suggest' that people pay-up for the basic level of service they expect?

It's mean to to be security, for the benefit of all travellers and indeed people on the ground. Not a money-making racket. "Lovely flight you have there, be a shame if you missed it."



What next, ask passengers to chip-in for 'fast-track ATC' to get onto the runway sooner? I mean if you don't pay-up you're just a 'tightwad'...

Idbatterim

I dont understand at peak times, why they dont give people tight on time, the option of paying for fasttrack then and there, say €10 or so....

Irish Steve

fast track can be booked up till 2 hours before departure, after that the system won't take the booking. Unless a person lives very close to the airport, at departure -2, you're going to know if you are tight on time, and if fast track will help.

Mebuntu

Great post, as usual, Irish Steve.

Irish Steve wrote: »

Yes, the first is resourcing, if there's a queue and there are scanning lanes not in use, that's an issue.

This is one of the really major issues that passengers have with the system. There is no excuse or justification whatsoever for not opening more channels when long queues form. Lame excuses as put forward here are unacceptable.

I find it more than slightly incredible that over 10 years after the scanning regulations came into force, there are still significant numbers of people who arrive at the scanners with items that are not allowed

This must be very frustrating for staff on duty for hours. If I see only one in that category as I go through I get mad.

the way that security is laid out and operates on a day to day basis....shoes removed, ...trouser belts removed, ...... ensuring that a sneak thief doesn't lift the laptop while other items are being dealt with.

In fairness I have not experienced shoes off at DUB for many years. On the subject of theft I was once being frisked (random) and was turned facing towards my stuff that had already reached the end of the conveyor. The security guy didn't like it and very rudely ordered me to face the other way which I refused to do and explained why. Again, in fairness, I have rarely seen anything but civility and efficiency by Security staff at DUB but there is always the odd one that needs reining in.

On the subject of randoms there are too many. On one occasion a few years ago being randomed at DUB I overheard a nearby staff member complaining to another that the randoms were supposed to be every X (not revealed here) pax but were being too frequent in practice.

Things would be a lot simpler if we'd not gone down the road of having charges for hold luggage,

Not sure about that one. It's not just the money. Many pax just like the convenience of not having to collect bags at reclaim so make sure they are within limits.

Maybe if DAA (and others) did surveys of passengers to find out what the issues for them are,

That'll be the day.

Homerjay2005 wrote:

nobody should need to arrive two hours beforehand for a flight. if regulations are 20-25 mins maximum in security, you should be able to arrive no more than 1 hour before departure and expect to comfortably make your flight.

You have hit the nail on the head with that one. We are being asked to turn up 2 hours in advance for no other reason other than the inability of Security management to manage their job competently. For passengers the uncertainty of how long Security will take, even turning up 2 hours in advance, is a major source of stress.

Spanish Eyes

If one decides to use T2 security for T1 departures, is it well signposted how to get from T2 to T1 when through security?

Thanks.

LXFlyer

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

If one decides to use T2 security for T1 departures, is it well signposted how to get from T2 to T1 when through security?

Thanks.

Yes - just follow the signs for the 100, 200, and 300 gates

Dardania

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

If one decides to use T2 security for T1 departures, is it well signposted how to get from T2 to T1 when through security?

Thanks.

It is - you basically turn right after secuirty, and when you get to the far left corner of the big shopping hall, instead of turning left for the Aer Lingus / US preclearnance gates, you head stright/rightish.

I would link to the streetview, but something wrong with my browser, however if you try yourself you can see the streetview here:

https://www.google.ie/maps/@53.4255401,-6.2421202,18z

Spanish Eyes

lxflyer wrote: »

Yes - just follow the signs for the 100, 200, and 300 gates

Thanks, but what I meant was is there a SIGN saying "T1 this way". Not everyone knows or will remember that T1 is through the 1-300 gates!