Do recruitment agencies blacklist people

boardsuser1

As above. Do they? 2 agencies are constantly recruiting in my line of work (driving) but after reference checks they fob me off. 1 reference was bad. Long story. I didn't give it but when they asked for a name from that particular employer i felt i was obliged to give it but knew i was screwed when they called them. Job offers were made,references pending. When i called back to query the result i keep getting "oh we're only compiling a data base". This was for for jobs with 'immediate start' as the headline. WTF is going on at all.

Mrs OBumble

Yes, I would expect that they do.

You're going to have to find a different route (no pun intended!) to get work than going thru this agency.

Also, be aware that some agencies are simply brand-names, but really the one big company. One example is CPL / Multiflex / Flexisource - three names, one company. So what you see as two agencies may really only be one.

boardsuser1

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Yes, I would expect that they do.

You're going to have to find a different route (no pun intended!) to get work than going thru this agency.

Also, be aware that some agencies are simply brand-names, but really the one big company. One example is CPL / Multiflex / Flexisource - three names, one company. So what you see as two agencies may really only be one.

Can i mention the agencies? Bloody madness that they are crying out for drivers and here's me looking for work. I have tried both CPL/Flexsource and they want 5 years minimum experience in one particular vehicle. I have 4 years between Rigid's/Artic's/Buses/van's. 2 years of that with 1 company. If i removed the former employer i am removing my experience so it's a catch 22 with those agencies.

Glass fused light

It will depend a bit on why the reference is a poor one.

If you manage the process and explain why your former employer was unhappy with you, it may improve your chances. This has to be truthful but can be expressed in a way not to disparage the company eg. personally clashes or conflicting work/life balance can be packaged as how its better for both to move on but you learned/did X and it will not impact your future employment performance.
Even if it was a performance issue you can see if someone in the firm will give an other non "company" reference to balance the company one.

As you have already been in contact with the agency it may be that you need to try meet the recruiter in person to show that even though your former employer is unhappy that you want to move on from the past, so your willing to work with them if they may offer you a short term non important client job etc

You may be able to manage the reference too? On that, if your former employer has a HR department it may be worthwhile getting an appointment and sitting down with the head to explain your looking for a new job. That although there were difference you have come to understand the companys position etc and that you hope they can be supportive if they are contacted by the recruiter.

Speedwell

In my experience, plum jobs with "immediate start" paying more than the average rate are merely advertisements for the agency to gather CVs and not real jobs at all. (I have many years experience working with agencies as both a candidate and a temp.) Actually coming right out and telling you they're simply information gathering is refreshingly honest.

A_Sober_Paddy

Speedwell wrote: »

In my experience, plum jobs with "immediate start" paying more than the average rate are merely advertisements for the agency to gather CVs and not real jobs at all. (I have many years experience working with agencies as both a candidate and a temp.) Actually coming right out and telling you they're simply information gathering is refreshingly honest.

Is that legal?

Speedwell

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Is that legal?

Totally, so long as they say that's what they are doing, which is what the agency in question has done with the OP. Honest and ethical, though? I wouldn't go that far. And if it wasn't legal? They could simply say the position was filled internally, or the company decided to withdraw it, or a more qualified person was hired. I doubt anyone checks; I mean, what solicitor is an unemployed person going to go hire?

Laura_A

All agencies do blacklist based on a bad reference or bad experience with a consultant etc - its very standard practice.. Unless you explain what happened and why in advance and it makes sense why would any agency risk sending a 'bad' worker out to one of their customers.. (Not saying you are just why would they take the risk)

pilly

KC161 wrote: »

As above. Do they? 2 agencies are constantly recruiting in my line of work (driving) but after reference checks they fob me off. 1 reference was bad. Long story. I didn't give it but when they asked for a name from that particular employer i felt i was obliged to give it but knew i was screwed when they called them. Job offers were made,references pending. When i called back to query the result i keep getting "oh we're only compiling a data base". This was for for jobs with 'immediate start' as the headline. WTF is going on at all.

Could you take that employer off your CV? If they're going to give you a bad reference it's not really worth having it on there is it?

Glass fused light

Speedwell wrote: »

In my experience, plum jobs with "immediate start" paying more than the average rate are merely advertisements for the agency to gather CVs and not real jobs at all. (I have many years experience working with agencies as both a candidate and a temp.) Actually coming right out and telling you they're simply information gathering is refreshingly honest.

I'll go one better, where a company had a problem and did not want to pay consultants, so stuck up an ad for a position with a great salary, target was employees of companies who solved the issue and were implemeting a solution, called people for interview to get them to explain what need to be done. On the legal, the job is then cut due to budget changes etc

seamus

A_Sober_Paddy wrote: »

Is that legal?

There's no regulator for recruiters.

At best it's a matter for the data protection commissioner, but agencies will virtually always include some kind of note or request to keep your CV on file for other roles and not just the one you applied for.

You can of course tell them that they cannot keep your CV except for the specific role advertised. In which case they'll just bin it if it's a data gathering exercise.

pxdf9i5cmoavkz

So I asked my wife who works for one of the largest recruitment companies in Ireland.

This is an industry that processes a lot of candidates per day, month, year. You will need to do something monumentally atrocious to find yourself blacklisted.

You are not "blacklisted" per say OP, what you are is a risky candidate due to your bad reference. "oh we're only compiling a data base" is another way of saying "We don't want to risk placing you and then have you turning out to be a bad placement which will look bad on us and that could cost us a client."

Sorry OP.

Lux23

I think they do. I fell ill in the middle of an interview (an ambulance had to be called) and I would never apply to a job that agency advertises, would just assume that as they never contacted me afterwards they wouldn't put me forward again.

boardsuser1

pilly wrote: »

Could you take that employer off your CV? If they're going to give you a bad reference it's not really worth having it on there is it?

It is something i gave considerable thought to yes. However i would then be in a position where not only would it appear i lack experience but also have a 2 year gap on my CV. Employers have asked about gaps previously and what was i doing during them.

boardsuser1

Glass fused light wrote: »

It will depend a bit on why the reference is a poor one.

If you manage the process and explain why your former employer was unhappy with you, it may improve your chances. This has to be truthful but can be expressed in a way not to disparage the company eg. personally clashes or conflicting work/life balance can be packaged as how its better for both to move on but you learned/did X and it will not impact your future employment performance.
Even if it was a performance issue you can see if someone in the firm will give an other non "company" reference to balance the company one.

As you have already been in contact with the agency it may be that you need to try meet the recruiter in person to show that even though your former employer is unhappy that you want to move on from the past, so your willing to work with them if they may offer you a short term non important client job etc

You may be able to manage the reference too? On that, if your former employer has a HR department it may be worthwhile getting an appointment and sitting down with the head to explain your looking for a new job. That although there were difference you have come to understand the companys position etc and that you hope they can be supportive if they are contacted by the recruiter.

Without wanting to give too much away because the former employer knows it is me under this username,god knows how but they do as they said it to me and i can't figure out how to post anonymously. I stood up to the employer for the right reasons as corruption is rife there. And i was sent packing as a result.

There is no HR dept there. The owner of the company runs it,hires,fires etc. Every single little detail goes through them.

Caliden

KC161 wrote: »

It is something i gave considerable thought to yes. However i would then be in a position where not only would it appear i lack experience but also have a 2 year gap on my CV. Employers have asked about gaps previously and what was i doing during them.

Is there anyone at that company who can give you a good reference?

I'm sure you know this already but it's illegal to give a bad reference. It's not illegal to give a 'neutral' reference, i.e. "yes they worked here, end of story".

boardsuser1

Caliden wrote: »

Is there anyone at that company who can give you a good reference?

I'm sure you know this already but it's illegal to give a bad reference. It's not illegal to give a 'neutral' reference, i.e. "yes they worked here, end of story".

I spoke to someone who told me informally that they got a reference from them. They gave a neutral reference as you say and that was the end of the call. Confirmed i worked there what i did but gave conflicting dates to what i actually had worked. They said less than what i was saying.

Glass fused light

KC161 wrote: »

Caliden wrote: »

Is there anyone at that company who can give you a good reference?

I'm sure you know this already but it's illegal to give a bad reference. It's not illegal to give a 'neutral' reference, i.e. "yes they worked here, end of story".

I spoke to someone who told me informally that they got a reference from them. They gave a neutral reference as you say and that was the end of the call. Confirmed i worked there what i did but gave conflicting dates to what i actually had worked. They said less than what i was saying.

It's not illegal to give a 'bad' reference once it's truthful. The giver and the company can be sued for bringing the reputation of the job hunter into disrepute if the giver tells a lie.  The truth has to be provable, this involves keeping good hr records, and cost + bad publicity for the firm.  This is why most big companies have moved to only confirm employment dates.

OP if you know who gave the reference and that they will be contacted in future; contact them to make sure they fact check and agree your employment dates.  If they are only willing to give a neutral reference you can tell the recruiter that up front so it's not a surprise.

daheff

Caliden wrote: »

Is there anyone at that company who can give you a good reference?

I'm sure you know this already but it's illegal to give a bad reference.

Nope -its not illegal to give a bad reference -but only so long as its accurate.

It is illegal to give an undue/untruthful reference (slander or liable).

Caliden wrote: »

It's not illegal to give a 'neutral' reference, i.e. "yes they worked here, end of story".

Generally companies give this kind of reference as they dont want to leave themselves open to any kind of potential lawsuit in the future should the employee not live up to the reference given (tough one to prove, but has happened).

boardsuser1

Went for a job interview today at 11am. The issue of references from former employers arose. I tried the whole 'neutral' thing. Long story short, i was offered/accepted the job after explaining myself and the reasoning behind it.

Glass fused light

Good job. Congrats.

Make sure if you gave a name for the ref that you let them know that they may get a call.

pilly

KC161 wrote: »

Went for a job interview today at 11am. The issue of references from former employers arose. I tried the whole 'neutral' thing. Long story short, i was offered/accepted the job after explaining myself and the reasoning behind it.

Well done, congratulations.

boardsuser1

Thanks guys. Hopefully it will all go well and i can finally get rid of the former employer/bad reference from my CV.

Glass fused light

Just remember to be neutral about that job and not bad mouth them in the new job. As your attitude to them could be seen as your future attitude to your new employer.

boardsuser1

Glass fused light wrote: »

Just remember to be neutral about that job and not bad mouth them in the new job. As your attitude to them could be seen as your future attitude to your new employer.

I fully agree.

one of the questions during the interview was about that job and did I feel it has cost me potential employment along the line.

I said it has, as employers had previously offered me work pending references.

Some never phoned me back and the others who did informed me that 'regrettably' the offer was being withdrawn.

the agencies were the biggest problem for me.

not a single agency was willing to employ me as a result of the reference.

my new employer is a large employer in the Munster region in the haulage sector and I am happy with the opportunity. it is my intention to show them they won't regret it however.

ligerdub

I think there is far too much power in the hands of recruiters.

I've probably applied for jobs in about 99% of cases via recruiters, yet I've only managed to get over the line with jobs via recruiters for less than 50% of the successful applications. The remainder were obviously made directly to the hiring company.

I suspect the recruiters are not putting me forward as they have a very narrow belief in what the preferred candidate should be, companies in the industry though are generally much more positive about where I could fit (I have qualifications relatively rare in Ireland, but would be well known to those in the industry and in international locations). I'm left with a situation whereby if a suitable job comes through but I see it advertised through certain agencies I just don't bother anymore. The problem of course is that the same recruiters get most of the roles I'm looking at. I also don't have the confidence that the recruitment agent understands as well as the hiring manager does, just exactly what the company is looking for.

I honestly don't know why companies don't just do their own hiring. Why do they essentially outsource this vital step, and not just do it themselves?

boardsuser1

ligerdub wrote: »

I think there is far too much power in the hands of recruiters.

I've probably applied for jobs in about 99% of cases via recruiters, yet I've only managed to get over the line with jobs via recruiters for less than 50% of the successful applications. The remainder were obviously made directly to the hiring company.

I suspect the recruiters are not putting me forward as they have a very narrow belief in what the preferred candidate should be, companies in the industry though are generally much more positive about where I could fit (I have qualifications relatively rare in Ireland, but would be well known to those in the industry and in international locations). I'm left with a situation whereby if a suitable job comes through but I see it advertised through certain agencies I just don't bother anymore. The problem of course is that the same recruiters get most of the roles I'm looking at. I also don't have the confidence that the recruitment agent understands as well as the hiring manager does, just exactly what the company is looking for.

I honestly don't know why companies don't just do their own hiring. Why do they essentially outsource this vital step, and not just do it themselves?

Yes I agree. Most recruiters only look for short term workers which to 99%isn't viable.

The rate of pay they offer isn't exactly great either to be fair.

If they were used as a short term fix whilst looking else where that is understandable, like I was trying to do myself.

Is it still an employers market to the extent it was? in my own sector it doesn't appear to be. seeing many agencies advertising for the same vacancy repeatedly lately.

Are some companies too lazy to employ their own people or do they see agency workers as a way of taking someone on trial, if it works then they employ them directly after a specified period of time. e.g 1 month, 3 months etc.

Were that employee not to work out just get shot of them and have someone else brought in the next day with minimum fuss.

What are the costs of an agency worker though? I done 3 days work for an agency at 80e a day. if I got that in wages what did the agency get.

Mrs OBumble

ligerdub wrote: »

I honestly don't know why companies don't just do their own hiring. Why do they essentially outsource this vital step, and not just do it themselves?

Because they're busy, and don't want to waste time taking calls from people who are unsuitable etc.

You're right that employers usually understand the industry better - meaning that in your case, you need to use networking approaches to get thru the recruiter barrier. But that's to suit you, not for the employer's sake: they can get perfectly adequate employees without considering you.

ligerdub

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

Because they're busy, and don't want to waste time taking calls from people who are unsuitable etc.

You're right that employers usually understand the industry better - meaning that in your case, you need to use networking approaches to get thru the recruiter barrier. But that's to suit you, not for the employer's sake: they can get perfectly adequate employees without considering you.

You could apply that logic to pretty much any of their functions and just outsource the lot.

Recruitment is also a very expensive business. You don't need to take calls on these things either, just take submissions by email and invite the ones you want to interview and take it from there. I've worked for a couple of companies who would absolutely never use recruiters, considering them a massive waste of money. They were the best places I've ever worked and had the best mix of people too. Anecdotal no doubt, but it always struck me as interesting.

I could understand from the point of view of headhunting, but I'd imagine most interactions with recruitment agents are initiated by the applicant seeing the advertisement rather than the recruitment agent seeking out the best talent.

livedadream

of course they do,
ive had people turn up drunk to their first day,
people getting bad references
people being late to interviews
people telling interviewers im only here coz liv sent me when asked why they wanted the job.

you forget the recruiter is doing their job, their not going to risk their commission on a bad hire.
if you getting bad references its best to stop using that person and move on.

boardsuser1

livedadream wrote: »

of course they do,
ive had people turn up drunk to their first day,
people getting bad references
people being late to interviews
people telling interviewers im only here coz liv sent me when asked why they wanted the job.

you forget the recruiter is doing their job, their not going to risk their commission on a bad hire.
if you getting bad references its best to stop using that person and move on.

Only the one bad reference. Had to put it on the CV due to experience otherwise it would look like I have none. I secured a new job last week so hopefully it lasts over 1 year then I can remove the reference that is causing me problems.

livedadream

One bad reference is all it takes.
Think about it this way, if I told you I'd give you five grand to fill a job for me would you risk it on someone who got a bad reference?
Congrats on the new job hopefully it works out for you.

ligerdub

KC161 wrote: »

Only the one bad reference. Had to put it on the CV due to experience otherwise it would look like I have none. I secured a new job last week so hopefully it lasts over 1 year then I can remove the reference that is causing me problems.

New employers don't always ask for references from specific employments. You could perhaps get another reference from a volunteering position or the like.

It's obviously not ideal but might solve your problem.

boardsuser1

livedadream wrote: »

One bad reference is all it takes.
Think about it this way, if I told you I'd give you five grand to fill a job for me would you risk it on someone who got a bad reference?
Congrats on the new job hopefully it works out for you.

fully agree with you.

5k is not to be sniffed at.

Of all my previous jobs it was the only bad one.

Thank you I hope it does

boardsuser1

ligerdub wrote: »

New employers don't always ask for references from specific employments. You could perhaps get another reference from a volunteering position or the like.

It's obviously not ideal but might solve your problem.

I was asked could they contact the former employers I have listed.

I agreed.

However I did mention that that particular employer is likely to offer a neutral reference, I explained why, the new employers never contacted them after hearing my explanation and to my relief offered me the job.

Christmas is coming and 4 kids will be waiting on Santa :pac:

boardsuser1

Hello boardsies, back again. Sadly the job didn't work out. Was let go. The interesting part however is while I was given a letter informing me my contract was terminated with immediate effect, they have yet to give me a reason as to why. When I asked I was told I'll receive a letter in the coming days/weeks explaining why, anyone ever hear of such a scenario like that?

livedadream

Frequently you weren't let go you didn't pass your probation. It's a way to make sure your not stuck with an employee who either isn't pulling their weight, isn't getting on with the team and sometimes it's as simple as you didn't click with the training. Sorry to hear that. Legally they don't have to give you a reason because it was probation and not a termination.

boardsuser1

livedadream wrote: »

Frequently you weren't let go you didn't pass your probation. It's a way to make sure your not stuck with an employee who either isn't pulling their weight, isn't getting on with the team and sometimes it's as simple as you didn't click with the training. Sorry to hear that. Legally they don't have to give you a reason because it was probation and not a termination.

Had no problem pulling my weight. Only things I took issue with was being asked to drive a truck with no tax insurance or CVRT (nct test) cert displayed,I was contracted to work between 7-10 hours a day and wasn't paid beyond that,long story short I was asked on several occasions to work on until the truck was empty,for free,sometimes up to an extra 5 hours, I refused point blank as I wasn't being paid for it,and that was made clear,but if I ever finished earlier I was docked. company in question does have a high turnover of drivers.

livedadream

Dude I didn't say it was why you were let go , you asked had anyone experienced it and I gave some examples.

I get what your saying and it does sound excessive but sometimes sucking it up and doing it is better than being unemployed while you search for another role.

cocaholic

I have been offered another position in a big company through a recruiter. However, Im not sure that right now is the time to be leaving my current job. I would like to work in the other company in a years time, but would I be blacklisting myself?

livedadream

it depends on if you can explain why you went through the interview process etc...
personally when i worked as a recuiter i tried not to take it personally when you would advocate for people and spend so much time prepping them and working with them and then working with the company it can be tough when someone appears to have wasted your time.

also you mentioned your not sure if it the right time to be leaving your current role, if so why apply for the new job?
if you have a career plan then explain it to the recruiter and hope for the best,
i never blacklisted anyone without a good reason (like i said above drunk for interview, lying about references etc) but i was certainly more weary of people who i felt were taking the piss.

Richmond Ultra

KC161 wrote: »

Can i mention the agencies? Bloody madness that they are crying out for drivers and here's me looking for work. I have tried both CPL/Flexsource and they want 5 years minimum experience in one particular vehicle. I have 4 years between Rigid's/Artic's/Buses/van's. 2 years of that with 1 company. If i removed the former employer i am removing my experience so it's a catch 22 with those agencies.

Aircoach are crying out for bus drivers, they have more buses than drivers and are moving to every thirty minutes from Cork to Dublin. Give them a shout.

cocaholic

livedadream wrote: »

it depends on if you can explain why you went through the interview process etc...
personally when i worked as a recuiter i tried not to take it personally when you would advocate for people and spend so much time prepping them and working with them and then working with the company it can be tough when someone appears to have wasted your time.

also you mentioned your not sure if it the right time to be leaving your current role, if so why apply for the new job?
if you have a career plan then explain it to the recruiter and hope for the best,
i never blacklisted anyone without a good reason (like i said above drunk for interview, lying about references etc) but i was certainly more weary of people who i felt were taking the piss.

The recruiter approached me about it and I went for it, out of interest.

boardsuser1

Richmond Ultra wrote: »

Aircoach are crying out for bus drivers, they have more buses than drivers and are moving to every thirty minutes from Cork to Dublin. Give them a shout.

Really? Worked for aircoach before through a previous employer as a hire in. I know the route etc,might well look into that. Thanks for letting me know.

Richmond Ultra

KC161 wrote: »

Really? Worked for aircoach before through a previous employer as a hire in. I know the route etc,might well look into that. Thanks for letting me know.

Best of luck with it.

livedadream

cocaholic wrote: »

The recruiter approached me about it and I went for it, out of interest.

you might be okay then,

just tell them you dont think its the right time,

recruiters are normal people as well their not going to blacklist someone for turning down a job offer...

cocaholic

livedadream wrote: »

you might be okay then,

just tell them you dont think its the right time,

recruiters are normal people as well their not going to blacklist someone for turning down a job offer...

What would the company think then? Would it be impossible to get a job with them down the line?

livedadream

It depends, I've had people turn down jobs as a HR rep and as a recruiter it honestly depends on the person...
and the company I've worked in a company up north that had an embargo on recruiting people that had interviewed for a year.
It depends on how the recruiter sells it to their contact they could throw you under the bus, they could explain it well for you.
Have you accepted the offer? When was the offer made?

cocaholic

livedadream wrote: »

It depends, I've had people turn down jobs as a HR rep and as a recruiter it honestly depends on the person...
and the company I've worked in a company up north that had an embargo on recruiting people that had interviewed for a year.
It depends on how the recruiter sells it to their contact they could throw you under the bus, they could explain it well for you.
Have you accepted the offer? When was the offer made?

It was about 2 weeks ago. I haven't set back any of the forms etc yet

livedadream

forms? so you accepted the offer?
look its up to you, I dont know you or know the situation but if you were unsure you shouldnt have accepted the role.

but it happens people change their minds, speak to your recruiter and explain why you want to stay in your current role but that you would be open to a similar new role next year.

personally id tear the face off you and wouldnt put you forward for a while, especially if you accepted the role, i have no problem with people interviewing and seeing how far they go before making a decision but if youve accepted the role and ive sent you contracts etc it means ive told the other candidates the role was filled and have started looking for other jobs for them, its very tough to go back to someone when they know their second place and convince them to take a role.

why didnt you tell the recruiter you were unsure, why didnt you tell them you needed time to think it over before accepting...

boardsuser1

Was talking to a recruitment agency yesterday about work. Got an email back from them saying that to be considered I would need 5-6 years experience (I have 4 in artics/buses). then I seen this ad posted online.

www.jobisjob.ie/

Baffled is an understatement.