If You Come Back We Will Give You a Tax Break

Ray Palmer

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/politics/special-tax-deal-to-lure-emigrants-with-high-skills-home-35082046.html
So the government want to entice people back to the country with skills we will need. The thing is some of these people abandoned Ireland to go bankrupt in favourable places leaving us to pick up the pieces. So while we got extra USC taxes they got excused from their debts. Seems really unfair they can return get a tax break. Effectively they can come back and undercut the wages of people paying full tax while they still get more into their hand. Does anybody see this as fair?

gaius c

**** on the people who stayed and steadied the ship?

No wonder FG lost a third of their seats in the last election.

ChikiChiki

Very disingenuous to the people who stayed and worked our arses off through the recession. Where's our tax break?

Anyway why would they bother coming back in the midst of a major housing/rental crisis.

LeinsterDub

I for one look forward to paying more tax than some lad who fecked off to Australia/Canada/Dubai

Birneybau

Not the sharpest tools in the box. One way to destroy whatever dwindling support they had.

seamus

I'm somewhat skeptical about the necessity of this and how many people are realistically going to avail of it.

If someone has set up a life for themselves abroad, are they really going to up sticks and come home for a short period of tax relief?

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

This would really disenfranchise the hundreds of thousands of us who could have legged it but stayed behind, paid our taxes and got the show back on the road, while listening to our boastful friends getting the arses burnt off them out in Abu Dhabi, Sydney etc. No thanks.

jester77

They could make it tax free and I wouldn't return.

The Irish government do a great job at portraying themselves as clueless. Maybe they should deal with the issues at home first. Ireland is very low tax compared to where I now live, but I am more than happy paying it. Some silly tax incentives are never going to lure me back.

LeinsterDub

I know prebudget time is generally about floating several ballons and seeing what gets shot down but how anyone thought this was a good idea is beyond me.

PR own goal for the government

Canis Lupus

They'd want to give me some serious coke and hookers to make me come back to Ireland.

Ray Palmer

seamus wrote: »

I'm somewhat skeptical about the necessity of this and how many people are realistically going to avail of it.

If someone has set up a life for themselves abroad, are they really going to up sticks and come home for a short period of tax relief?

People don't always set up a new life and just live in another country as they did before.

ChikiChiki

Ive stayed here throughout the recession working away and upskilling but am only thinking about leaving now. There are plenty of jobs in my field (IT Consultancy) but at the end of the day I cannot find a decent place to rent at reasonable value around Dublin and its driving me mad. Additionally here in Ireland we are absolutely pillaged for taxes and get absolutely nothing back from it. I was sick for a while with my chest and it took 1.5 years to finally get to the appointment with a specialist consultant. Ridiculous.

I don't blame people for running off to places like Dubai where employers give housing allowances and there is no income tax to be paid. Certainly would not be bitter against them.

ScumLord

They'd have a better chance of getting people to come back if they promised it wouldn't rain as much.

FURET

I guess I'm in the pool this is aimed at. I didn't abandon Ireland because times were bad. I was employed at the time and left by choice because I felt I needed a change. My decision had nothing to do with the recession. Five years down the road, and I've picked up a wife and a kid and a lot of experience.

I don't find this offer very attractive. Don't get me wrong, I appreciate the sentiment, but a 30% tax rate for me for 5 years with a tax-favourable policy RE company shares tacked on? Sorry, no. How about 30% for everyone indefinitely and a sensible capital gains tax rate of, say, 15% rather than the robbery that is currently enforced?

Ireland is uncompetitive because income tax and social insurance deductions are too high, capital gains tax is too high, private investing is discouraged, and accommodation is too expensive. Until these things change, Ireland will remain uncompetitive.

elefant

Noticing a trend in this thread and the comments on that article along the lines of people expecting to be rewarded for not leaving Ireland during tough times.

Can someone explain the logic in this to me?

LeinsterDub

elefant wrote: »

Can someone explain the logic in this to me?

It more people are expecting not to be punished/out of pocket for staying.

elefant

LeinsterDub wrote: »

It more people are expecting not to be punished/out of pocket for stay.

They wouldn't be punished under this scheme though? They would pay the same tax as before.

Tasden

elefant wrote: »

Noticing a trend in this thread and the comments on that article along the lines of people expecting to be rewarded for not leaving Ireland during tough times.

Can someone explain the logic in this to me?

Don't think anybody expects to be rewarded. That's kind of their point. Why should anybody be rewarded, least of all those who actually left the country?

LeinsterDub

elefant wrote: »

They wouldn't be punished under this scheme though? They would pay the same tax as before.

I would be pay significantly more tax and why because I stayed here and paid tax to the Irish government for 5 years while some other lad went to Australia and got locked for the duration and supported their economy. **** that! If you're going to ease the tax burden on anyone it should be your average Joe.

Ted111

I think the govt should make the undertaking alright.
Then when high skilled people quit their foreign jobs, come home, buy a house etc then the govt should renege on the deal and charge them double tax.

eeguy

Plenty of shoulder chips here. Was it purely because of nationalistic patriotism that yous all stayed?
Because if it was for any other reason you can't claim to be one of the saviours of Ireland through your heroic actions of just staying in the same jobs and working away as usual.

I wouldn't begrudge anyone who left this country due to unemployment and a harsh economic climate a tax break to return. The country needs skilled workers.

elefant

Tasden wrote: »

Don't think anybody expects to be rewarded. That's kind of their point. Why should anybody be rewarded, least of all those who actually left the country?

It's this 'least of all' thing that I'm not understanding. I'm sure many countries offer tax incentives to attract highly skilled workers.

I'm not commenting on whether the scheme would actually be beneficial to Ireland, just the idea that people who didn't leave are getting screwed by the government wanting to entice highly-skilled Irishmen and women to return.

elefant

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I would be pay significantly more tax and why because I stayed here and paid tax to the Irish government for 5 years while some other lad went to Australia and got locked for the duration and supported their economy. **** that! If you're going to ease the tax burden on anyone it should be your average Joe.

They would need to be on over 75k a year. I don't think those are the lads out in Australia wrecking youth hostels.

The_Valeyard

Bit of a kick in the face to all of us, who took the cuts, pain and stayed to work though it.

LeinsterDub

elefant wrote: »

They would need to be on over 75k a year. I don't think those are the lads out in Australia wrecking youth hostels.

Owe sorry. Tax breaks for the wealthy so. I'm sure someone on 40 K a year will be happy to pay more tax as a percentage than these guys so

lawred2

LeinsterDub wrote: »

Owe sorry. Tax breaks for the wealthy so. I'm sure someone on 40 K a year will be happy to pay more tax as a percentage than these guys so

While 75k is a good income

It doesn't automatically make anyone wealthy. Wealth is income generated from assets less costs. Many people on 75k after paying heavily for the privilege of such an income haven't two notes to rub together at the end of a month.

As for this proposal - give me a fu(king break with this shower of absolute muppets

Would they for once show those who pay through the nose for everything in this kleptocracy some semblance of respect? Just fu(king once.

Tasden

elefant wrote: »

It's this 'least of all' thing that I'm not understanding. I'm sure many countries offer tax incentives to attract highly skilled workers.

I'm not commenting on whether the scheme would actually be beneficial to Ireland, just the idea that people who didn't leave are getting screwed by the government wanting to entice highly-skilled Irishmen and women to return.

Well it's 'least of all' because those that stayed and paid into the system through taxes would in theory be more deserving of any type of "rewards" or benefit from that system than those who haven't. At a basic level like.
I don't have any opinion myself either way, just pointing out thats it wasn't people saying they actually want anything themselves.

DeanAustin

What they are trying to do, i.e. get talented people back to Ireland, is a great idea/goal.

How they are proposing to do it is unfair and political suicide.

st1903

So I get to work beside someone who does the same job as me, gets the same salary as me, but takes home more than me. Brilliant.

L.Jenkins

elefant wrote: »

Noticing a trend in this thread and the comments on that article along the lines of people expecting to be rewarded for not leaving Ireland during tough times.

Can someone explain the logic in this to me?

See, many stuck it out, working hard to keep themselves and the Country afloat. Things were much worse in the 80s with unemployment rate at 17%+, while it only hit 14%+ in 2010.

Instead of enticing people back with lower tax rates, why not give those tax breaks to small and medium sized enterprise companies or startups, to reduce the employment rate even further, which as it stands, is currently near 8% according to http://www.tradingeconomics.com/

endagibson

seamus wrote: »

If someone has set up a life for themselves abroad, are they really going to up sticks and come home for a short period of tax relief?

Also not guaranteed to last the length originally promised. Completely at the whim of the minister, which will change often enough.

LeinsterDub

lawred2 wrote: »

While 75k is a good income.

I knew this was coming. Put it this way they certainly ain't poor.

lawred2

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I knew this was coming. Put it this way they certainly ain't poor.

nothing like sweeping generalisations

endagibson

elefant wrote: »

They wouldn't be punished under this scheme though? They would pay the same tax as before.

If the people returning were also contributing to the tax pot, maybe everyone could be taxed less.

Ray Palmer

eeguy wrote: »

Plenty of shoulder chips here. Was it purely because of nationalistic patriotism that yous all stayed?
Because if it was for any other reason you can't claim to be one of the saviours of Ireland through your heroic actions of just staying in the same jobs and working away as usual.

I wouldn't begrudge anyone who left this country due to unemployment and a harsh economic climate a tax break to return. The country needs skilled workers.

It isn't begrudgery it is about fairness. Somebody can return to the country and pay less tax and undercut my wages and still have more in their pocket. We could work in the same company or competing for the same job. I could have left too but decided not to and contributed tax to this country while the other person didn't yet they get a tax break while reducing my wages.
That isn't begrudgery it is a sense of outrage on a suggested proposal that is simply unfair.

Ted111

endagibson wrote: »

If the people returning were also contributing to the tax pot, maybe everyone could be taxed less.

That's a good point - they have equal access to the same public services but pay at a lower level for them than people in the other tier.

LeinsterDub

lawred2 wrote: »

nothing like sweeping generalisations

I'll happily stand by the generalisation that most people earning 75k a year are in a fair better place financially than those earning 25k a year.

L.Jenkins

Ms Mitchell O'Connor wants highly-skilled graduates to pay an effective rate of income tax of 30pc for a set period. (5 years)

The lower tax rate would be aimed at those earning in excess of €75,000 in specialist jobs in areas like medicine, science, IT and finance.

Longford/Westmeath TD Kevin 'Boxer' Moran said it should include a "resettlement" package that will assist those who move home with the costs such a trip incurs.

"This Budget has to help emigrants, and it is a top priority," Mr Moran told the Irish Independent last night.

I agree this might be a little unfair to those who stayed and should be invested in SMEs instead.

LeinsterDub

Longford/Westmeath TD Kevin 'Boxer' Moran said it should include a "resettlement" package that will assist those who move home with the costs such a trip incurs.

"This Budget has to help emigrants, and it is a top priority," Mr Moran told the Irish Independent last night.

We've people here looking to be resettled from the streets and ****ty hotels 'Boxer' any chance of looking after those first?

The mind truely boggles

lawred2

LeinsterDub wrote: »

I'll happily stand by the generalisation that most people earning 75k a year are in a fair better place financially than those earning 25k a year.

If talking about two single unattached uncomplicated debt free people who have never benefited from inheritance or wealthy parents/relatives then yes that's patently obvious.

Not everyone fits that mould though.

Does 75k automatically mean that someone is wealthy?

L.Jenkins

lawred2 wrote: »

...Does 75k automatically mean that someone is wealthy?

http://www.upworthy.com/you-may-have-heard-75000-is-the-magic-income-number-find-out-the-story-behind-it

LeinsterDub

lawred2 wrote: »

If talking about two single unattached uncomplicated debt free people who have never benefited from inheritance or wealthy parents/relatives then yes that's patently obvious.

Not everyone fits that mould though.

Does 75k automatically mean that someone is wealthy?

Not always but as a rule of thumb , yes .

Sleepy

If it were solely aimed at entrepreneurs with the aim of them basing their businesses here rather than abroad, this would make sense.

As it is, it's simply a sop to the mammies of emigrants who want their kids to come home and want "the government to do something about it"...

ISOP

Ireland is a filthy, backward, corrupt kip, I wouldn't come baak for a million quid, you have to laugh at all the gimps slagging people who had to leave, I suppose they would have preferred if we stayed at home on the dole

I came back to Ireland because I like living in Ireland and the economy is recovering. I don't understand why anyone needs special tax-treatment to return. Ireland is not a high-tax economy when it comes to work, charging signigicantly less than many of our OECD counterparts.

As things stand, a single person can earn 75k p.a, and pay 35% tax, including USC and PRSI. Not the oft-cited 52%, which of course, nobody actually pays on their total income.

Why can't we try to lure 'talent' by using our existing tax base to improve infrastructure and housing?? is this Government capable of anything but cheap tactics and playing fast and loose with the concept of fairness for all workers?

What's more, how can this proposal be remotely legal? Surely it discriminates against EU workers, by giving them less favourable tax-treatment than their equally qualified Irish workers?

Then again, this Government has very little regard for EU Law on equal tax treatment, as noted by the E.U. Commission.

masseyno9

Like some other posters here, I'm one of those that this is aimed at. Left straight out of college, now I have years of experience and would be classed as a highly skilled worker. As it happens, I have done quite well and am now exposed to the kind of projects I would never have the opportunity to work on at home. I have no interest in coming home, and if I did, a temporary tax break wouldn't be the deal-breaker the government seems to think it is. If someone is planning on coming home in 2-3 years time, they might make it happen sooner to avail of this, but it won't have a big impact on numbers. People who are settled abroad can't just up sticks and leave on a whim!

I can completely understand the frustration of people who would be competing with returning emigrants who would have ability to undercut them on salary negotiations, or match them but take home more. Idiotic scheme, all around!

However - I also feel some of the posters are generalising about the people who left and their reasons for doing it. Not everyone went to the UAE or Australia and got pissed for the duration. Some people decided that rather than work for free on JobBridge, or be a drain by drawing the dole, they would get up and do something about it.

I really hope the government doesn't forge ahead with this plan. I agree with the SME investment proposed above. Employ the people who are there, or let them employ themselves by way of making small businesses viable.

Ray Palmer

Sleepy wrote: »

If it were solely aimed at entrepreneurs with the aim of them basing their businesses here rather than abroad, this would make sense.

The thing is it applies to IT contractors as they need to setup a company to become contractors. It gives them a massive advantage on their income.
What is even more insulting is as a contractor there is actually an extra tax on earnings that PAYE workers don't have where by you pay 54% on some income.
Always thought the prodigal son's brother was right to be annoyed and was treated badly.

masseyno9

masseyno9 wrote: »

Some people decided that rather than work for free on JobBridge, or be a drain by drawing the dole, they would get up and do something about it.

This is the only part of the comment I have a bit of a problem with.

What about the third, and most important choice: to make money and build a career?

I don't know anybody who goes to university or seeks work in order "not to be a drain on society". We do it because we love that career, or at worst, to make money for ourselves, to increase our store of resources, freedoms, and personal happiness. It's nothing as altruistic as 'not wanting to be a drain'.

Let's none of us martyr ourselves here, emigrants or not. If there wasn't a profit in it (financial or otherwise), we wouldn't do it.

dogbert27

Ray Palmer wrote: »

Sleepy wrote: »

If it were solely aimed at entrepreneurs with the aim of them basing their businesses here rather than abroad, this would make sense.

The thing is it applies to IT contractors as they need to setup a company to become contractors. It gives them a massive advantage on their income.
What is even more insulting is as a contractor there is actually an extra tax on earnings that PAYE workers don't have where by you pay 54% on some income.
Always thought the prodigal son's brother was right to be annoyed and was treated badly.

If the government had their sxxt together they'd realise that the Revenue over the last number of years have see ven such contractors out of the country with their over aggressive pursuit of taxes and shifting the goal posts on previous understandings of IT54.

They cut off their nose to spite their face by chasing a few years of taxes when they could have had another 20 to 25 years of tax returns.

I don't think there will be a lot of take up on this offer.

ArnoldJRimmer

As one of the people who 'abandoned' Ireland, as if it were a lost child. I think this is a terrible suggestion. Its going to do little, if anything, to entice emigrants back, and is only going to serve to p!ss off the electorate even more. I echo the sentiments that the tax break would be better served as an incentive for small businesses instead

downwesht

As someone who has lived through 2 recessions I think it is ridiculous to give returning emigrants a tax incentive.The emigrants of the 80s were the ones who returned with pockets full of cash who helped fuel the rise of property prices.I was sick of listening to friends who returned boasting of how they paid little or no tax overseas and now had a huge wad to spend.Why should those of us who stayed be now punished again for keeping the flame burning.We are an island nation and emigration is part of island life.
Tax should be paid by all fairly,if you live here pay your share