Potentially cloned plate

xabi

So I received a penalty notice from eflow saying I was on the M50 last week and didn't pay the toll. I'm miles away and haven't been on the M50 for months, rang eflow who confirmed plate, make, model, colour of car matches mine. Also rang the Guards who said to call in with the image they send me.

Anyone any experience of this?

Del2005

The picture will prove its not you and its been reported to the Gardaí, not much else to be done as there's no option to change the registration of your car.

happened to my friend,
she was able to prove she was in work at the time.
dont think it was a big deal.

xabi

Not worried about it, just wondering what happens if the cloned car keeps using M50 or gets speeding tickets, am I going to have to prove it wasn't me each time.

Del2005

xabi wrote: »

Not worried about it, just wondering what happens if the cloned car keeps using M50 or gets speeding tickets, am I going to have to prove it wasn't me each time.

Most likely since you can still commit offences yourself, but since it's been reported to the Gardaí it should not involve much effort.

xabi

Del2005 wrote: »

Most likely since you can still commit offences yourself, but since it's been reported to the Gardaí it should not involve much effort.

That's going to be a right pain in the you know where! Unless they catch the villain.

Glass fused light

xabi wrote: »

Not worried about it, just wondering what happens if the cloned car keeps using M50 or gets speeding tickets, am I going to have to prove it wasn't me each time.

Might be a good idea ask the Garda about getting a sticker or 'legal' frame for your car reg number and have this logged with the cloned plate report. At least that way you have a point of reference to help prove it was not you doing donuts at 3am.

xabi

There is a frame around my plate with the garage name on it, it was on the long finger to remove, might be my saving grace this time.

Del2005

xabi wrote: »

That's going to be a right pain in the you know where! Unless they catch the villain.

Unfortunately it will be and the worst bit is that the villain, if ever caught, will have less pain.

jkb_dub

Similar happened to me some years ago. I checked my online tag account and noticed a transaction that was not mine.

I requested the photo and received a photo of a different car with my reg.

I called the guards and they were able to find that model of car with a registration number close to mine. They paid a visit to the owner of that car and corrected their mistake.

Only issue was I was stopped by a Garda car a few weeks later for having a duplicate reg, as it took some time for the incident it to be updated as closed, and the automated number plate recognition to be updated.

So you may run into that problem every time you pass a Garda car.

Special Circumstances

Glass fused light wrote: »

Might be a good idea ask the Garda about getting a sticker or 'legal' frame for your car reg number and have this logged with the cloned plate report. At least that way you have a point of reference to help prove it was not you doing donuts at 3am.

[Csi]Enhance!Enhance! [/csi]

Really, has anyone heard of this being applied in Ireland? Does your average garda even have access on the go to anything resembling the kit out of a 1980s US patrol car?

Del2005

Special Circumstances wrote: »

[Csi]Enhance!Enhance! [/csi]

Really, has anyone heard of this being applied in Ireland? Does your average garda even have access on the go to anything resembling the kit out of a 1980s US patrol car?

They have access to PULSE and that will have a note saying that the legit vehicle has a certain sticker in a certain location, no need to enhance anything.

Indricotherium

Del2005 wrote: »

They have access to PULSE.

Lol

Jude13

Happened to me, I had a little clio as a run around for when I was home. My folks received a speeding letter with a pic of a saab 9-3 with my plate on it. I rang the guards and explained this and they checked it out so it was no hassle.

Glass fused light

Special Circumstances wrote: »

[Csi]Enhance!Enhance! [/csi]

Really, has anyone heard of this being applied in Ireland? Does your average garda even have access on the go to anything resembling the kit out of a 1980s US patrol car?

As I understand it these days the pics are digital.
The m50 system is a computer reading the plate and if need be referring it to a human who, hopefully, will be able to look at the car as well as the reg number.
As for the speeding ticket do the Garda not log this against a reg number to get an address? Worse case, if you had to turn up in court I would hope that the judge would be willing to squint and give you the benefit of innocent until proven guilty.

Chris_Heilong

When I hear things like this happening I am glad I only drive rare cars.

savagethegoat

Glass fused light wrote: »

Might be a good idea ask the Garda about getting a sticker or 'legal' frame for your car reg number and have this logged with the cloned plate report. At least that way you have a point of reference to help prove it was not you doing donuts at 3am.

is a good idea. Make your own car distinctive so that you can prove your innocence easily. As simple as an IRL sticker or personalised number plate surround.

xabi

Chris_Heilong wrote: »

When I hear things like this happening I am glad I only drive rare cars.

Mine is common, but not that common, 6 series

Gumbo

xabi wrote: »

Not worried about it, just wondering what happens if the cloned car keeps using M50 or gets speeding tickets, am I going to have to prove it wasn't me each time.

Happened my dad a few years back. Got the toll fin s on a weekly basis. Once eflow were notified the first time, you just called them back and asked them to keep sending the pics and you were thn giving them to the Garda as they were building a case.

Eventually tracked the offending car to a house in Drogheda. Once the Garda was notified we didn't hear anything further.

We never paid the fine either btw obviously.

Eric Cartman

OP, put some sort of sticker , an "IRL" sticker or something on the front and back of the car to identify yours.

mikeecho

Eric Cartman wrote: »

OP, put some sort of sticker , an "IRL" sticker or something on the front and back of the car to identify yours.

or just preposition your tax& ins to the drivers side, or get personalized plates in a non standard format.

there are lots of things you can do.

but for rear pics,, an non standard number plate would definitely prove thats its not your car.

btw.. the gardai arent too bothered about non standard plates, once thery are legible

Glass fused light

mikeecho wrote: »

or just preposition your tax& ins to the drivers side, or get personalized plates in a non standard format.

there are lots of things you can do.

but for rear pics,, an non standard number plate would definitely prove thats its not your car.

btw.. the gardai arent too bothered about non standard plates, once thery are legible

But... If the Gardai plan to testify in court how they can prove the clone reg is the cloned reg....;)

mikeecho

Glass fused light wrote: »

But... If the Gardai plan to testify in court how they can prove the clone reg is the cloned reg....;)

It's up to the driver to prove otherwise

Glass fused light

revenue dot ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/format-vehicle-registration-plates dot html

The Gardai may not bother with non standard plates in the normal dealings with a driver but if the driver is pointing to something covered by the law it's always a good idea be in compliance. Everyone has rights but they come with responsibilities, respect the position if you want to rely on the position's authority.

mikeecho

Glass fused light wrote: »

revenue dot ie/en/tax/vrt/leaflets/format-vehicle-registration-plates dot html

The Gardai may not bother with non standard plates in the normal dealings with a driver but if the driver is pointing to something covered by the law it's always a good idea be in compliance. Everyone has rights but they come with responsibilities, respect the position if you want to rely on the position's authority.

I genuinely don't know what your point is.

Glass fused light

mikeecho wrote: »

I genuinely don't know what your point is.

Giving you the benefit on innocence on the meaning of standard.

Open the web page and print it out.
Go out to any car on any street and place the printout near the registration.
Begin reading and checking the pictures.
If the plate matches the the words and pictures it is a standard plate.
If the plate does not match the the words and pictures it is a non-standard plate.

The Gardai have an obligation to enforce the law, but has a limited ability to not act, don't rock up to the station complaining about a non-road legal car while driving a non-road legal car yourself. Legible or not, the Garda may act immeditely to enforce the law.

mikeecho

Glass fused light wrote: »

Giving you the benefit on innocence on the meaning of standard.

Open the web page and print it out.
Go out to any car on any street and place the printout near the registration.
Begin reading and checking the pictures.
If the plate matches the the words and pictures it is a standard plate.
If the plate does not match the the words and pictures it is a non-standard plate.

The Gardai have an obligation to enforce the law, but has a limited ability to not act, don't rock up to the station complaining about a non-road legal car while driving a non-road legal car yourself. Legible or not, the Garda may act immeditely to enforce the law.

I get u now


Firstly, the actual legislation states that the font type is SansScript.
All that means is, without tail.

No actual font type is prescribed.

Secondly, I thought the subject of the discussion was about cloned plates, and how you could prove that the car in the pic isn't yours.

beer enigma

Feel really sorry for the OP, happened to me in 2015 and the other vehicle was the same make, model and colour. I lost count of the amount of knocks on the door at 3am from Garda chasing petrol thefts, let alone letter from toll companies chasing payment.

I finally got a really good Garda detective on my side and he showed me photos of the car which had same ref and plain number plates on. He suggested I change mine to have the IRL euro flag on them and it stopped the 3am visits but not the tolling letters. I eventually sold the car as it was just too much work trying to avoid the tollers legal threats.

xabi

Finally received the pictures from eflow for this, the picture is poor quality but I don't think it's a 6 series like mine, anyone guess what car they think it is? Has my reg.

ironclaw

xabi, looks like a 5 Series (F Series) to me.

M50 is littered with ANPR. I'm amazed in this day and age that the car can't be tracked and flagged immediately. Certainly if he's using the M1, it would be an easy catch.

Special Circumstances

Glass fused light wrote: »

Might be a good idea ask the Garda about getting a sticker or 'legal' frame for your car reg number and have this logged with the cloned plate report. At least that way you have a point of reference to help prove it was not you doing donuts at 3am.

xabi wrote: »

Finally received the pictures from eflow for this, the picture is poor quality but I don't think it's a 6 series like mine, anyone guess what car they think it is? Has my reg.

Special Circumstances wrote: »

[Csi]Enhance!Enhance! [/csi]

Oh dear, doesn't look like getting some indervidual plate surround would have helped at all in this picture.
I've been shouting enhance enhance for ages now and I can't make out "Autohaus Munchen" or a bit on it.

Cheensbo

Special Circumstances

What a show, must watch it again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KiqkclCJsZs

Hope the sequel lives up to the original

lanciadub

I was of the impression that the M50 cameras only capture the front of the vehicle not the back , so putting any identifiable features on the rear of the car would be a waste of time . I understand that this is why motorbikes arent charged a toll , because of reg being on the back .
( i could be wrong and if i am im sure it'll be pointed out)

kirving

That picture from eFlow is a joke.

xabi

The photo is shocking, laughed when I opened it. The guards don't want to know, not much we can do was the reply, waste of time. I also got sent a closeup of the reg

xabi

The reg photo

Special Circumstances

Ha, the jokers, putting an "autohaus wolfsburg" surround on a BMW. Heathens!

JoeA3

Looks like a 5 series alright. Although I don't know how they can claim its your reg from that pic, I can't read the digits at all!

ironclaw

Just to point out, the image the OP recieved is likely not a full render. ANPR, which this system is, relies on extremely fast shutter speeds and much wider spectrum of light than the human eye. Its concerned about reading a reg, not taking a picture that our eyes care about. As you can see from the close up of the reg, the resolution is there, its just not represented very well in the large photo.

The toll plaza does take a CCTV images of the rear of the car as it passes, along with a host of CCTV on that section as well. Whilst you may not get the driver, you may get a much better picture of the overall car.

Special Circumstances

ironclaw wrote: »

Just to point out, the image the OP recieved is likely not a full render. ANPR, which this system is, relies on extremely fast shutter speeds and much wider spectrum of light than the human eye. Its concerned about reading a reg, not taking a picture that our eyes care about.

Would the suggestion of a sticker or a surround help at all to distinguish the car do you think?

xabi

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Would the suggestion of a sticker or a surround help at all to distinguish the car do you think?

There is a surround on my plate and the agent in the call centre could tell mine looks different and also tell that there's a parking permit sticker on my drivers side.

sunnysoutheast

xabi wrote: »

The reg photo

I think the "9" looks a bit compressed on that plate photo? I've just checked my plate and the 9s are full height. Might help with distinguishing the journeys - even though it appears to be a completely different car!