Motorists caught speeding in Limerick avoid convictions

Comhrá

DOZENS OF MOTORISTS TESTIFY THEY DID NOT RECEIVE €80 FINE IN THE POST

Between the shambolic laws regarding texting/driving and this 'It could only happen in Ireland' legal loophole, is it any wonder our road deaths are on the way up each recent year on year?



http://www.limerickleader.ie/news/home/217091/motorists-caught-speeding-in-limerick-avoid-convictions.html

LESS than a fifth of speeding prosecutions before a single sitting of Kilmallock Court last week resulted in convictions being recorded.

Almost 80 cases were before Judge Marian O’Leary relating to detections at locations across the city on various dates late last year or early this year.

All of the cases related to detections allegedly made by operators of GoSafe vans.

In each case, a GoSafe employee gave evidence as to location and time of the alleged offence as well as the speed of the offending vehicle.

The court was told that in each case a prosecution had been initiated as Fixed Charge Penalty Notices had not been paid within the appropriate timeframe.

A large number of cases were struck out after the accused person gave evidence, under oath, that they had not received any fine in the post with most stating they would have paid the €80 fine if given the chance to do so.

A number of people who attended court said they were not driving the car on the date of the detection and had been unable to nominate the actual driver for a variety of reasons.

One man prosecuted for driving 80kph in a 60kph zone told the court his son was driving on the date of the offence.

“I got the notice, I filled it in and gave it to him,” he said adding that it was past the deadline when he realised it had not been sent off.

A woman accused of driving at 70kph at Rourkes Cross insisted: “The first I was made aware (of the proceedings) was when I received the court summons”.

Another man, whose wife was prosecuted, told the court he was driving on the date of the offence.

He said he did not receive a fixed penalty notice as his wife is the registered owner of the car. “I never received it in my own name, we sent it back with my details but it never came back,” he said.

One man who admitted driving at 66kph in a 50kph zone said he was “sorry” and “didn’t mean it”.

However, he told the court that when he went to pay the €80 fine at his local post office “they couldn’t find me in the system”.

A number of people gave evidence of trying to pay the €80 fine near the deadline but being unable to so.

One woman who misplaced her fixed penalty notice said the reprinted notice did not arrive until after the deadline had passed.

Sergeant Michelle Leahy, prosecuting, said the State was withdrawing more than a dozen cases as there were difficulties with the locations which appeared on the court summons while other cases were withdrawn after it was accepted the person before the court had sold the suspected vehicle prior to the detection.

In addition to cases which were withdrawn or dismissed, Judge O’Leary struck out a handful of cases saying she had concerns the address on the court summons did not match the address of the person before the court.

Of those who were convicted of speeding, fines ranging from €100 to €250 were imposed.

Those convicted will also receive five penalty points on their driving licences.

Armchair Andy

The GoSafe vans aren't there to save lives. They're cash registers.

Delighted for them.

markpb

Armchair Andy wrote: »

The GoSafe vans aren't there to save lives. They're cash registers.

Not this rubbish again.

The consortium was last year paid €17.27 million, of which €7.5 million was recouped for the exchequer through fines paid by motorists.

In each year from 2012-2015 it cost the State over €17 million to maintain the contract with a cost of almost €16 million in 2011. For the same period of 2010 to date, revenue generated by from the safety camera contract has totalled €32.4 million.

“This means that there is just over €54 million in the difference between the operation of the contract and the revenue that it creates.

http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/speed-camera-contract-worth-115m-set-to-be-renewed-with-gosafe-1.2745263

jca

Armchair Andy wrote: »

The GoSafe vans aren't there to save lives. They're cash registers.

Delighted for them.

Exactly. I've had the misfortune to drive the New Ross to Waterford road a number of times recently and there's always one, if not two of those vans on either that stupidly long 60 km/h section coming out of Ross and/or another on the now almost deserted bypassed old Road, ( now 80 km/h)

savagethegoat

read previous post...

Miike

markpb wrote: »

Not this rubbish again.



http://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/speed-camera-contract-worth-115m-set-to-be-renewed-with-gosafe-1.2745263

So they operate at a loss, road safety has still made a decline in the years of operation and yet we're still funding this system.

I'm more outraged at that, then the fact they're "Cash machines".

markpb

Miike wrote: »

So they operate at a loss, road safety has still made a decline in the years of operation and yet we're still funding this system. I'm more outraged at that, then the fact they're "Cash machines".

+1

The money would have been far better spent on additional funding the Garda Traffic Corp. People will only behave themselves if there's a good chance they'll be caught at any location for any breach of the road traffic acts. A few relatively static cameras which most people will either be warne about or see coming isn't very effective.

Jesus.

Good

Del2005

Miike wrote: »

So they operate at a loss, road safety has still made a decline in the years of operation and yet we're still funding this system.

I'm more outraged at that, then the fact they're "Cash machines".

If they were really about road safety then they should only be placed at places where crashes occur and with proper sign posting so that no one gets a fine, therefore reducing RTCs. Instead they are placed on open roads and catch people exceeding the limit and do nothing to reduce RTCs, along with costing a fortune to run while only enforcing 1 traffic law.

Armchair Andy

If it wasn't a money making exercise why not discard the fines completely? In the interest of safety surely there's no price.

Guy:Incognito

Armchair Andy wrote: »

If it wasn't a money making exercise why not discard the fines completely? In the interest of safety surely there's no price.

why have fines for anything so?

jca

Del2005 wrote: »

If they were really about road safety then they should only be placed at places where crashes occur and with proper sign posting so that no one gets a fine, therefore reducing RTCs. Instead they are placed on open roads and catch people exceeding the limit and do nothing to reduce RTCs, along with costing a fortune to run while only enforcing 1 traffic law.

Exactly.

Great to see people getting off with the fines and points.

Armchair Andy

Guy:Incognito wrote:

why have fines for anything so?

I never said that.
GoSafe was launched to "make the roads safer";-) ;-) so why have any monetary gain involved? Just issue points.

It's a money making racket that even our dear governmental depts can't turn a profit on, that's the shambles it is.

These 5km zones on blackspots is another joke. Fatal car crash here, let's set up shop in the nearest 60km zone or motorway within 5km.

mikeecho

Armchair Andy wrote: »

If it wasn't a money making exercise why not discard the fines completely? In the interest of safety surely there's no price.

It's a loss making exercise.
The fines only slightly offset the loss.

Without the fines it would be even more of a financial failure.

Personally I think that there should be no penalty points, but massive fines.

But then, ppl will complain that any such fines will affect poorer ppl more than the wealthy.

It's a loose/loose situation



And if anyone bothers to read older threads about the technical limitations of these speed cameras, they'd realise that anyone who gets caught was obviously on their way to spec savers.

Avatar MIA

mikeecho wrote: »

It's a loss making exercise.
The fines only slightly offset the loss.

Without the fines it would be even more of a financial failure.

Thank you for trying, but some people just want to piss and moan - logic doesn't come into it.

Del2005

mikeecho wrote: »

It's a loss making exercise.
The fines only slightly offset the loss.

Without the fines it would be even more of a financial failure.

Personally I think that there should be no penalty points, but massive fines.

But then, ppl will complain that any such fines will affect poorer ppl more than the wealthy.

It's a loose/loose situation

They could have income based fines instead of set fines, for each level of offence they add another percentage of your income to the fine. But first they have to fix the enforcement issues and that isn't going to happen soon.

Jesus.

mikeecho wrote: »

Personally I think that there should be no penalty points, but massive fines.

Why would you be so eager to see people hit with massive fines man?

mikeecho

Jesus. wrote: »

Why would you be so eager to see people hit with massive fines man?

No penalty points.

The penalty will be monitary.

That's why.

Look at the Dutch system. Large fines on a sliding scale, and no penalty points.

Jesus. wrote: »

Why would you be so eager to see people hit with massive fines man?

Are you eager to see ppl hit with penalty points and a driving ban, possible loss of employment ?

mikeecho

People are tieing up the courts with these speeding fines cos they are trying to avoid points.
Just like drunk drivers contest their case because it leads to a driving ban.
Drunk driving is one of the most contested pieces of legislation in this country.

No-one wants to loose their licence.

Large fines would act as a deterrent, and be less likely to be contested in court.

http://www.speedingeurope.com/netherlands/

uck51js9zml2yt

mikeecho wrote: »

No penalty points.

The penalty will be monitary.

That's why.

Look at the Dutch system. Large fines on a sliding scale, and no penalty points.






Are you eager to see ppl hit with penalty points and a driving ban, possible loss of employment ?

Same system in Portugal. Sliding scale depending on the speed you're going.
If people started getting hit in their pockets they MIGHT slow down.

Jesus.

mikeecho wrote: »

No penalty points.The penalty will be monitary.That's why. Look at the Dutch system. Large fines on a sliding scale, and no penalty points.Are you eager to see ppl hit with penalty points and a driving ban, possible loss of employment ?

No. I take your point Mike.

Armchair Andy

Avatar MIA wrote:

Thank you for trying, but some people just want to piss and moan - logic doesn't come into it.

Sound reasoning. But then I'm pissing and moaning why listen to anything? Just have a whinge yourself and let that be it. Logical thinking right there.

Arcade_Tryer

To those people who obviously object to the GoSafe vans and speeding fines/points, what do you suggest as an alternative, if any?

No reprimands whatsoever for speeding?

Struggling to see the rationale behind some of these "delighted they got off" and "revenue generating" posts.

Hopeful2016

Armchair Andy wrote: »

The GoSafe vans aren't there to save lives. They're cash registers.

Delighted for them.

They wouldn't be making much cash if people weren't speeding. Sounds like you might be one of them.

Abide by the speed limits and they won't be getting much from you.

gctest50

Maya Most Prune wrote: »

.............
If people started getting hit in their pockets they MIGHT slow down.

or get caught a good few times and you get a speed-limiter

http://www.radiokerry.ie/news/court-hears-man-drove-at-164-kilometres-per-hour-on-main-tralee-killarney-road/

Judge James O’Connor ........ ordered a device which limits the speed to 100 kilometres per hour be fitted to Mr Brosnan’s car within 10 days.

Armchair Andy

Hopeful2016 wrote:

Abide by the speed limits and they won't be getting much from you.

Hopeful2016 wrote:

They wouldn't be making much cash if people weren't speeding. Sounds like you might be one of them.

Sorry to disappoint you but no penalty points here over 10 years. Never given a bean to GoSafe. Not a snot.

Silly immature assumption.

Armchair Andy

Arcade_Tryer wrote:

Struggling to see the rationale behind some of these "delighted they got off" and "revenue generating" posts.

It's not the concept of the setup I disagree with. It's the siting of their speed vans that annoy me.

I may be wrong but I have it from a Garda that these vans can be situated within 5 km of any fatal accident, regardless of it being a completely different road. Is that true?

Del2005

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

To those people who obviously object to the GoSafe vans and speeding fines/points, what do you suggest as an alternative, if any?

They could start with locating them in the accident black spots and not the nice open road, which gets more traffic but no RTCs, close by.

As for an alternative. A Garda enforcing all traffic legislation, not just 2 laws, on the roads where serious RTCs have occurred.

Hopeful2016

Armchair Andy wrote: »

Sorry to disappoint you but no penalty points here over 10 years. Never given a bean to GoSafe. Not a snot.

Silly immature assumption.

Well what a good motorist you are, well done. Proof that if people didn't break the speed limit there would be no money made by these vans.

Kinda flies in the face of your "cash register" comment.

nice_guy80

why are the vans located on stretches of road that have long since been upgraded, since a road death occurred on the older dangerous stretch of road?

Special Circumstances

Hopeful2016 wrote: »

Well what a good motorist you are, well done. Proof that if people didn't break the speed limit there would be no money made by these vans.

Kinda flies in the face of your "cash register" comment.

Does it though?

You might feel like that's a great "save" after accusing the guy. But it doesn't look all that great to me really.

Can a person not criticise the location choice of go safe vans without being 1 more letter short of a ban? Do you have to be banned altogether maybe?

The recent "revision" of locations to include motorways was the final straw for me. They don't even pretend to have them at places es where fatalities have occurred now, least of all fatalities due to speed. It can be any accident for any reason. Drove against the flow of traffic? Speed camera, that'll fix it. Bald tyres, speed camera. Crossed a solid white line for some inexplicable reason in front of on coming truck? Speed camera.

Jesus.

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

To those people who obviously object to the GoSafe vans and speeding fines/points, what do you suggest as an alternative, if any?No reprimands whatsoever for speeding?Struggling to see the rationale behind some of these "delighted they got off" and "revenue generating" posts.

This is in no way meant as an insult Tryer but why are so many car guys so square? Its like a "nerds are us" meeting on here sometimes.

C'mon man what gives?

Armchair Andy

Hopeful2016 wrote:

Kinda flies in the face of your "cash register" comment.

Hopeful2016 wrote:

Well what a good motorist you are, well done. Proof that if people didn't break the speed limit there would be no money made by these vans.

You can hang onto the patronising tone for someone else.
Why does the fact that I have no previous fines or penalty points from GoSafe suggest that they're not anything but cash registers? Just because it doesn't affect me wouldn't mean I can't hold that opinion.
It's the siting of their speed vans I take issue with,not the concept, as I've already explained in an earlier post.

LaGlisse

I can always taste the salt in these threads from people who have been nabbed by these vans and think the rules shouldnt apply to them. There should be more of them and more fixed cameras in dangerous locations. They do change behaviour , you see way less outrageous speeding on the roads these days (plenty of other idiotic behaviour mind. I've been nabbed a few times myself but have adjusted my behaviour accordingly, take it like a man and learn your lesson

Hopeful2016

Armchair Andy wrote: »

You can hang onto the patronising tone for someone else.
Why does the fact that I have no previous fines or penalty points from GoSafe suggest that they're not anything but cash registers? Just because it doesn't affect me wouldn't mean I can't hold that opinion.
It's the siting of their speed vans I take issue with,not the concept, as I've already explained in an earlier post.

What difference does it matter where they are if you/one is not speeding?

Jesus.

LaGlisse I have zero penalty points and actually drive quite slow. Like Andy said, why do you think someone has to have been personally affected by something to know when something isn't right?

LaGlisse

Jesus. wrote: »

LaGlisse I have zero penalty points and actually drive quite slow. Like Andy said, why do you think someone has to have been personally affected by something to know when something isn't right?

What's not right about it?

Jesus.

Hopeful2016 wrote: »

What difference does it matter where they are if you/one is not speeding?

LaGlisse wrote: »

What's not right about it?

Lads are you serious? I'd love to inhabit that simplistic black & white World of yours. Even if just for a day!

Hopeful2016

Special Circumstances wrote: »

Does it though?

You might feel like that's a great "save" after accusing the guy. But it doesn't look all that great to me really.

Can a person not criticise the location choice of go safe vans without being 1 more letter short of a ban? Do you have to be banned altogether maybe?

The recent "revision" of locations to include motorways was the final straw for me. They don't even pretend to have them at places es where fatalities have occurred now, least of all fatalities due to speed. It can be any accident for any reason. Drove against the flow of traffic? Speed camera, that'll fix it. Bald tyres, speed camera. Crossed a solid white line for some inexplicable reason in front of on coming truck? Speed camera.

Yes it does. It clearly proves they do not generate revenue all by themselves and if you don't break the speed limit, they don't collect any revenue.

"Save"?! It's an anonymous Internet forum, why would I need a save?! I'm not really that worried about it that I'd bother.

As for speed and on motorways, there's be a number of deaths on motorways in recent weeks, why should they be excluded?

Hopeful2016

Jesus. wrote: »

Lads are you serious? I'd love to inhabit that simplistic black & white World of yours. Even if just for a day!

It's great, a speeding-fine free zone. Slow down and come join us.

Not sure what's so simplistic about abiding by speed limits. It's not rocket science. Are you one who also justifies driving home from the local after a "couple of pints" cos it's just down the road. Or do you pick and choose which laws you break?

LaGlisse

Jesus. wrote: »

Lads are you serious? I'd love to inhabit that simplistic black & white World of yours. Even if just for a day!

I've been caught a rake of times,highest score I've got is 6 penalty points,would have been 9 under the regime. Guess I'm a slow learner but have finally learned my lesson and haven't been caught in ages because I dont bother speeding,it's pretty easy. Tbf you have to be pretty thick to get caught in most places but I guess people prefer not to take responsibility for their own actions

Armchair Andy

Hopeful2016 wrote:

What difference does it matter where they are if you/one is not speeding?

Because it's not right.

Hopeful2016

Armchair Andy wrote: »

Because it's not right.

Stellar argument there :rolleyes:

jca

LaGlisse wrote: »

I can always taste the salt in these threads from people who have been nabbed by these vans and think the rules shouldnt apply to them. There should be more of them and more fixed cameras in dangerous locations. They do change behaviour , you see way less outrageous speeding on the roads these days (plenty of other idiotic behaviour mind. I've been nabbed a few times myself but have adjusted my behaviour accordingly, take it like a man and learn your lesson

While you're looking into your crystal ball, how many points do you think I and the other posters have?

Armchair Andy

Can't say the same for your own however.

Jesus.

Hopeful2016 wrote: »

Are you one who also justifies driving home from the local after a "couple of pints" cos it's just down the road. Or do you pick and choose which laws you break?

That might not necessarily be breaking the law

dr.fuzzenstein

Arcade_Tryer wrote: »

To those people who obviously object to the GoSafe vans and speeding fines/points, what do you suggest as an alternative, if any?

No reprimands whatsoever for speeding?

Struggling to see the rationale behind some of these "delighted they got off" and "revenue generating" posts.

It's the Irish "rebel spirit", since this was an occupied country it used to be the done thing to rebel against authority, to piss against the British cart, anything to damage the enemy.
Now that they're gone, you're doing it to yourselves. And cheering and clapping.
I simply don't understand why the system is so broken in Ireland, try that sh*t in Germany and if you don't answer the 3rd letter, Polizei, court, prison. Proper fcuking order.
The Irish are pissing against their own leg and singing rebel songs whilst doing so. Well done.

bear1

dr.fuzzenstein wrote: »

It's the Irish "rebel spirit", since this was an occupied country it used to be the done thing to rebel against authority, to piss against the British cart, anything to damage the enemy.
Now that they're gone, you're doing it to yourselves. And cheering and clapping.
I simply don't understand why the system is so broken in Ireland, try that sh*t in Germany and if you don't answer the 3rd letter, Polizei, court, prison. Proper fcuking order.
The Irish are pissing against their own leg and singing rebel songs whilst doing so. Well done.

That's a sweeping statement.
The judge imposed 100-250e fines on the ones who met the criteria for it so some sort of punishment has been given.
Good for the Germans if that's how it is actually done but alas this isn't Germany.
Not sure what authority has to do with anything but some justice has been done to those who didn't pay.

frozenfrozen

There would need to be an "Operation Transformation" type program but for DRIVING. They find an arrogant non indicating BMW/Audi driver. **** truck driver. Not paying attention young N plate driver who texts & thinks they're good because they have passed the test. Boy racer type. Octavia VRS driver (they're a whole category unto their own). Middle ager who thinks they know it all and over the few weeks you follow the fat bastard driver you relate to most in your journey to losing weight your dangerous driving habits

This week you've lost.... 8 points!!!!!


apologies if anyone is offended by the above stereotypes

Special Circumstances

frozenfrozen wrote: »

There would need to be an "Operation Transformation" type program but for DRIVING. They find an arrogant non indicating BMW/Audi driver. **** truck driver. Not paying attention young N plate driver who texts & thinks they're good because they have passed the test. Boy racer type. Octavia VRS driver (they're a whole category unto their own). Middle ager who thinks they know it all and over the few weeks you follow the fat bastard driver you relate to most in your journey to losing weight your dangerous driving habits

This week you've lost.... 8 points!!!!!


apologies if anyone is offended by the above stereotypes

Awesome!

Georgia Salpa washes the best contestants car each week while Kathyrn Thomas silently fumes in the passenger seat at being upstaged.